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God's Kingdom on Earth

n2thelight said:
Simple question,can you see Christ now?Let me answer for you,no you can't,however,when His kingdom is here we shall see Him.....
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John 14:23 Jesus answered and said to him, "If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our home with him.

Kingdom of God within us does not necessarily mean we must see Him. It means, others will see Christ through us.
 
Simple question,can you see Christ now?Let me answer for you,no you can't,however,when His kingdom is here we shall see Him.....
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Simple question: is your faith so weak that you must see Him to know He exists and rules?

What part of "we walk by faith and not by sight" isn't clear? :chin
 
felix said:
John 14:23 Jesus answered and said to him, "If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our home with him.

Kingdom of God within us does not necessarily mean we must see Him. It means, others will see Christ through us.
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Yep. :clap
 
Joh 20:29 Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.
 
reba said:
Joh 20:29 Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.
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Yes,it's called faith,as that is what we walk by,however we shall see Him in His kingdom,here on earth.....

Simple question: is your faith so weak that you must see Him to know He exists and rules?

What part of "we walk by faith and not by sight" isn't clear?
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My faith is not weak by any means,we walk by faith because He is not here with us now.....

John 14:23 Jesus answered and said to him, "If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our home with him.

Kingdom of God within us does not necessarily mean we must see Him. It means, others will see Christ through us.
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Are you saying we will never ever see the Kingdom?Other's should see Christ through us,that's what being a christian is all about but that dosn't take away the fact that He shall return,and we will see Him......
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we walk by faith because He is not here with us now.....
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So faith ends when He arrives??? Where does it say that in the Bible???

Are you saying we will never ever see the Kingdom?
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I see it every time a child prays or a someone raises their hands to heaven in praise. If you don't, you're not looking for the right things.

And yes, we will see it but not on this earth, for His kingdom is not of or from this earth.

I will see Him when I pass from this life to the next.

For what it's worth.
 
Stormcrow said:
So faith ends when He arrives??? Where does it say that in the Bible???



I see it every time a child prays or a someone raises their hands to heaven in praise. If you don't, you're not looking for the right things.

And yes, we will see it but not on this earth, for His kingdom is not of or from this earth.

I will see Him when I pass from this life to the next.

For what it's worth.
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Yet Paul says we shall not all die.......for what it's worth!!!

So when do those who don't die,see the Kingdom
 
The kingdom is already here - this is clearly and repeatedly attested to in the New Testament. Those who claim that it is only here in a "spiritual" sense are inventing a "spirit vs material" distinction that is nowhere supported in the Scriptures.
 
Stormcrow said:
And yes, we will see it but not on this earth, for His kingdom is not of or from this earth.
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Incorrect. The "not of this world" argument is false - it is based on a bad translation. I cannot count the number of times I have made the argument that the "of this world" translation is incorrect.

And it always gets ignored.

Same old, same old.

The word that gets translated as "of" is really "from". This error has led to much confusion. What's worse, people simply refuse to be corrected on this, preferring their view on this matter to the correct Biblical position.

If I am wrong, why does no one ever challenge the argument I have presented against the "not of this world" reading?
 
Drew said:
Incorrect. The "not of this world" argument is false - it is based on a bad translation. I cannot count the number of times I have made the argument that the "of this world" translation is incorrect.

And it always gets ignored.

Same old, same old.

The word that gets translated as "of" is really "from". This error has led to much confusion. What's worse, people simply refuse to be corrected on this, preferring their view on this matter to the correct Biblical position.

If I am wrong, why does no one ever challenge the argument I have presented against the "not of this world" reading?
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Because regardless of whether the word is "of" or "from", the same meaning is implied: Christ's kingdom did not come from this world and it is not of this world. The kingdom of God (heaven) comes "from" the Father and is "of" heaven.

Maybe no one has ever challenged you on it because it's such a nit-picking complaint? :chin
 
Stormcrow said:
You sure he was writing to you?

Might want to check the addressees of his letters.
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Your answer here provoked a question in my mind that has been ongoing since the first time I heard someone indicate that not all of the Bible is for "us". (Don't recall who the precise "us" was at the time) but let me ask this in general. If we say that the addressees of the Epistles are the only ones for whom their messages are intended, where does it stop? What part of the Bible is for "us" then?
 
Stormcrow said:
Because regardless of whether the word is "of" or "from", the same meaning is implied: Christ's kingdom did not come from this world and it is not of this world. The kingdom of God (heaven) comes "from" the Father and is "of" heaven.

Maybe no one has ever challenged you on it because it's such a nit-picking complaint? :chin
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Well, I'm stepping in the middle of the conversation. I realize it and ask your pardon, Stormcrow. However, correct interpretation of Scripture cannot, in my view, ever be "nit-picking". In this case, I must agree with Drew, Scripture is very clear that it is neither found in Heaven nor as a geographical location on earth. I would add that it's "houses" are on earth, and the kingdom is "nigh thee", "even in your mouth". Believers are the containers of both the King and the Kingdom.

I would disagree that it is not a "spiritual" kingdom, however, since it is because of the Spirit that the kingdom is within us. The problem is that the containers of this great Kingdom in the main are unaware that they are currently citizens of the Kingdom, that they have all the privileges and obligations of citizens of God's Kingdom, and that they NOW hold the right, as kings and priests, to rule and reign with Jesus Christ as the Head of the church, the nation of GOD's house.
 
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However, correct interpretation of Scripture cannot, in my view, ever be "nit-picking". In this case, I must agree with Drew, Scripture is very clear that it is neither found in Heaven nor as a geographical location on earth.
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I don't think Drew was making that argument.

Christ's kingdom did not come from this world and it is not of this world. The kingdom of God (heaven) comes "from" the Father and is "of" heaven.
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What part of this statement do you disagree with?
 
tessiewebb said:
Your answer here provoked a question in my mind that has been ongoing since the first time I heard someone indicate that not all of the Bible is for "us". (Don't recall who the precise "us" was at the time) but let me ask this in general. If we say that the addressees of the Epistles are the only ones for whom their messages are intended, where does it stop? What part of the Bible is for "us" then?
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Stormcrow did not suggest the verses in question were not 'for' us, but rather that they are not addressed 'to' us. There is a distinction.
 
If we say that the addressees of the Epistles are the only ones for whom their messages are intended, where does it stop? What part of the Bible is for "us" then?
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It's all for us. It's not all to us or about us.

In other words, we can all learn from the letters Paul wrote. We simply have to be careful how we apply what he wrote to specific people for specific reasons as general rules for the church today. Here's a perfect example:

{3} But I want you to understand that Christ is the head of every man, and the man is the head of a woman, and God is the head of Christ. 1 Corinthians 11:3 (NASB)

In the verse above, Paul is making a general statement about the order of authority. He then goes on to make a specific statement as to how this should apply in church to which he was writing:


{4} Every man who has something on his head while praying or prophesying disgraces his head. {5} But every woman who has her head uncovered while praying or prophesying disgraces her head, for she is one and the same as the woman whose head is shaved. 1 Corinthians 11:4-5 (NASB)


Today we see churches where men pray with baseball and cowboy hats on while women pray wearing no head cover at all and yet very few consider these things a disgrace, especially women praying with uncovered heads.

Clearly, Paul was using a general observation about authority to make a specific point about prayer to a given church at a given time: a point he didn't repeat in any other epistle (that I'm aware of.)


Yet at the same time to another church he's telling wives to submit to husbands and husbands to loves wives to illustrate how Christ loves His church and how we are to submit to His authority (Ephesians 5).

He then tells all in the church to "submit to one another."

The point of all this is that we need to learn how to apply the general lessons Paul teaches to the specific needs and problems of our daily lives and the modern church.

All for us. Not all to or about us.
 
Everything that God chose to include in the New Testament is for, about and applies to us.

This is His express will, and we do not have editing rights
 
{6} "That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. John 3:6 (NASB)

Christ Himself makes that distinction.

{50} Now I say this, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable. 1 Corinthians 15:50 (NASB)

The error that the Gnostics made was that all flesh was evil and that only the spirit was good, thus leading to ridiculous ideas such as self-flagellation and mutilation as signs of holiness and spiritual purity.

Paul correctly observed that our bodies are "temples" of the Holy Spirit and we must not, therefore, abuse them.

It is not, therefore, wrong to see the kingdom of heaven as spiritual. It is wrong to suggest that our current bodies are not vessels of it.
 
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