Going to a prostitute

[Elysian]

Shalom,

Let's say a person accepts Christ, but because of his sexual weakness he goes to a prostitute every now and then. Is he not saved, then? Will the acceptance of Christ work like magic and rid a person of sins, or will sin remain even after you're saved? The person in my example, a victim of sexual sin, what is his status? Is he going to lose his salvation because he's continuing in sin?

Elysian

 

[ChristianNationalist]

Of course, he continuously and unrepentantly violates God's law. It reminds me of some gangbangers I know. They go to confession and claim that at that moment they are truly repentant for what they did, but then as soon as the walk out the church doors they go right back into the lifestyle they claimed they were sorry for 10 minutes ago.

You can't just say the words, you have to live by the Word.

 

[Tina]

If a person truly accepts Christ and gets born-again, he is a new creation in Christ and will not wilfully and persistently subject himself to sins such as lust and sexual immorality.


1 John 3:6-10

No one who lives in him keeps on sinning. No one who continues to sin has either seen him or known him. Dear children, do not let anyone lead you astray. The one who does what is right is righteous, just as he is righteous. The one who does what is sinful is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the devil’s work. No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God’s seed remains in them; they cannot go on sinning, because they have been born of God. This is how we know who the children of God are and who the children of the devil are: Anyone who does not do what is right is not God’s child, nor is anyone who does not love their brother and sister.



Of course that's not to say that sins will magically vanish for that person's life. If only it were that easy ... 2

For some, crucifying fleshly desires and resisting sins is a daily struggle. But God will not let us be tempted beyond what we can bear...

1 Corinthians 10:13
No temptation has overtaken you except what is common to mankind. And God is faithful; he will not let you be tempted beyond what you can bear. But when you are tempted, he will also provide a way out so that you can endure it.


That is why God instituted marriage - for sex to be enjoyed by couples within the confines of marriage.

 

[ChristianNationalist]

Tina said it so much better than I could. What she said.

 

[Webers_Home]

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Will the acceptance of Christ work like magic and rid a person of sins, or will sin remain even after you're saved?

Sin remains.
<o:p> </o:p>
†. 1John 1:8 . . If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
<o:p> </o:p>
†. 1John 1:10 . . If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us
<o:p> </o:p>
The pronouns "we" and "ourselves" and "us" associate John with the believers to whom he wrote his epistle; so that he too would have been a liar had he claimed to be sinless.
<o:p> </o:p>
Incidentally, the believers to whom John penned his epistle were already in possession of eternal life before the letter arrived.
<o:p> </o:p>
†. 1John 5:13 . . I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life.
<o:p> </o:p>
<o:p> </o:p>

The person in my example, a victim of sexual sin, what is his status? Is he going to lose his salvation because he's continuing in sin?

He won't lose his salvation; but He will lose his fellowship with God.
<o:p> </o:p>
†. 1John 1:6 . . If we say that we have fellowship with Him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth
<o:p> </o:p>
The New Testament Greek word for "fellowship" is koinonia (koy-nohn-ee'-ah) which means: partnership, i.e. (literally) participation, or (social) intercourse, or (pecuniary) benefaction
<o:p> </o:p>
Fellowship has to do with one's association with God rather than one's safety from the wrath of God.
<o:p> </o:p>
Can a man frequent a prostitute and still go to heaven? Of course; and the best example of that is Samson: which tells me that you really can't tell by somebody's morality whether or not they're saved.
<o:p> </o:p>
Cliff<o:p></o:p>
/

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Can a man frequent a prostitute and still go to heaven? Of course; and the best example of that is Samson: which tells me that you really can't tell by somebody's morality whether or not they're saved.

Correct. Lack of moral behavior leaves them, and us, wondering if they are saved or not. Whereas acting like a new creation does give us assurance of salvation.

The Bible says that to have the assurance of salvation we must walk in the qualities of the Spirit. But not doing that does not categorically mean a person does not belong to Christ. The reason a person sins determines whether or not a person belongs to Christ or not.

If a person sins because they simply don't care about, or value God's forgiveness, that is the person who is in danger of being unknown to Christ on the Day of Wrath. But honest struggles and failures with the temptations of sin don't separate us from the forgiveness of God as long as we continue to rely on that forgiveness.

 

[felix]

Shalom,

Let's say a person accepts Christ, but because of his sexual weakness he goes to a prostitute every now and then. Is he not saved, then? Will the acceptance of Christ work like magic and rid a person of sins, or will sin remain even after you're saved? The person in my example, a victim of sexual sin, what is his status? Is he going to lose his salvation because he's continuing in sin?

Elysian

Is Heb 6:4-8 not clearer?

(Heb 6:4-8) For [it is] impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put [Him] to an open shame. For the earth which drinks in the rain that often comes upon it, and bears herbs useful for those by whom it is cultivated, receives blessing from God; but if it bears thorns and briars, [it is] rejected and near to being cursed, whose end [is] to be burned.

 

[spartakis]

I believe once saved always saved. Also it seems once saved for most men the sins of drinking, smoking, cursing, lying and etc... are pretty much the ones gone, but you would be amazed at how many saved men even pastors deal with porn, and sexual desires. No one is perfect and will be able not to sin, I sin daily. Not cause I want to. But God still loves his children and will forgive. He didnt say I once knew you he said I never knew you. Could go on and on with why I believe once saved always saved but I ll leave it at that. and Has this guy changed at all.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Is Heb 6:4-8 not clearer?

(Heb 6:4-8) For [it is] impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put [Him] to an open shame. For the earth which drinks in the rain that often comes upon it, and bears herbs useful for those by whom it is cultivated, receives blessing from God; but if it bears thorns and briars, [it is] rejected and near to being cursed, whose end [is] to be burned.

Hebrews 10 is where we get our clarity:

"26 If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, 27 but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God. 28 Anyone who rejected the law of Moses died without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. 29 How much more severely do you think a man deserves to be punished who has trampled the Son of God under foot, who has treated as an unholy thing the blood of the covenant that sanctified him" (Hebrews 10: NIV1984)


When your sin is a deliberate rejection of God's grace, that is when your sin removes you from any hope of being saved on that Day. It's what your sinning represents that determines your fate. If your sin represents a willful rejection of God's forgiveness you can only expect the raging fires of judgment. If your sin represents the growing pains of the sincere saint clinging to the hope of God's forgiveness despite your weaknesses and failures you can expect to be saved on the Day of Wrath.

 

[for_his_glory]

Luke 8:14 And that which fell among thorns are they, which, when they have heard, go forth, and are choked with cares and riches and pleasures of this life, and bring no fruit to perfection.
Luke 8:15 But that on the good ground are they, which in an honest and good heart, having heard the word, keep it, and bring forth fruit with patience.
Luke 8:16 No man, when he hath lighted a candle, covereth it with a vessel, or putteth it under a bed; but setteth it on a candlestick, that they which enter in may see the light.
Luke 8:17 For nothing is secret, that shall not be made manifest; neither any thing hid, that shall not be known and come abroad.
Luke 8:18 Take heed therefore how ye hear: for whosoever hath, to him shall be given; and whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken even that which he seemeth to have.

None of us can judge the heart of a person and it is not to say this person is not born-again, but it only makes one question if he is or not by the fruits he displays. Sexual lust is a sickness as one tries to keep it in secret, but nothing is hidden from the Lord that he does not see in us. Darkness is a hard thing to overcome at times, but there is not anything that is greater than that which Christ has already overcome for us.

If we see our brother or sister at fault should we not go speak to them in private to help lift up and edify them, but if they will not listen then we have done all we can do and just have to give them over to prayer and pray that the Holy Spirit would convict their heart to help them become pleasing to the Lord.

 

[Car Guy]

It's a tough call for sure. If someone is born again can they truly continue in habitual sins? Are they really born again?

I take the position if you do not have any measurable changes and your sin actions continue for a long period of time after claiming to be saved that brings the profession into doubt.

It's for this reason I believe someone cannot be a practicing homosexual and still claim to be born again. The sexual sin mentioned by the the OP is no different.

 

[Adullam]

<!--?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o>
Sin remains.
<o:p></o>
†. 1John 1:8 . . If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
<o:p></o>
†. 1John 1:10 . . If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us
<o:p></o>
The pronouns "we" and "ourselves" and "us" associate John with the believers to whom he wrote his epistle; so that he too would have been a liar had he claimed to be sinless.
<o:p></o>
Incidentally, the believers to whom John penned his epistle were already in possession of eternal life before the letter arrived.
<o:p></o>
†. 1John 5:13 . . I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life.
<o:p></o>
<o:p></o>
He won't lose his salvation; but He will lose his fellowship with God.
<o:p></o>
†. 1John 1:6 . . If we say that we have fellowship with Him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth
<o:p></o>
The New Testament Greek word for "fellowship" is koinonia (koy-nohn-ee'-ah) which means: partnership, i.e. (literally) participation, or (social) intercourse, or (pecuniary) benefaction
<o:p></o>
Fellowship has to do with one's association with God rather than one's safety from the wrath of God.
<o:p></o>
Can a man frequent a prostitute and still go to heaven? Of course; and the best example of that is Samson: which tells me that you really can't tell by somebody's morality whether or not they're saved.
<o:p></o>
Cliff<o:p></o>
/

We are saved to not sin...not saved in spite of sin. Those who sin...will die! You cannot change the truth to suit your fancy. Or if you do, you will bring condemnation on yourself.

 

[bigllama]

As humans, we are sinful by nature, and continue to sin even after we are saved. Jesus died for all sin committed by all people, saved and unsaved, whether we did it just once, or every day. Sexual sin is no different from other sins in God's eyes. I don't believe it is clear cut whether or not people who visit prostitutes or are homosexuals can or cannot be saved. That is God's judgement to make, not ours.

 

[elijah23]

Shalom,

Let's say a person accepts Christ, but because of his sexual weakness he goes to a prostitute every now and then. Is he not saved, then? Will the acceptance of Christ work like magic and rid a person of sins, or will sin remain even after you're saved? The person in my example, a victim of sexual sin, what is his status? Is he going to lose his salvation because he's continuing in sin?

Elysian

We are disciplined for each sin we commit.

 

[felix]

As humans, we are sinful by nature, and continue to sin even after we are saved.

(1John 3:9) Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.

Jesus died for all sin committed by all people, saved and unsaved, whether we did it just once, or every day.

Wrong! Salvation is only to those who obey Him!
(Heb 5:9) And having been perfected, He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him

Wrong! There is an advocate in Heaven but only to those who follow His Commandments.
(1John 2:1-3) ... if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous. And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world. Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments.

Sexual sin is no different from other sins in God's eyes. I don't believe it is clear cut whether or not people who visit prostitutes or are homosexuals can or cannot be saved.

Again Wrong!
(1John 5:17) All unrighteousness is sin, and there is sin not [leading] to death.
There are sins that does not lead to death. Not all sins are same in God's eyes.

That is God's judgement to make, not ours.

Sorry mate, you are too late to say this. God had already judged:

Do you want a few judgments by God on the topic of homosexuals, adulterer and evil doers inspite of knowing God?

(Rom 1:20) they are without excuse,
(Rom 1:24) God also gave them up to uncleanness.
(Rom 1:26-27) ... God gave them up to vile passions.
(Rom 1:28) ... God gave them over to a debased mind, to do those things which are not fitting;

Read Romans 1:18-32 yourself and don't be misled by someone.

(1Cor 6:9-10) Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God.

These are not 'our' judgment but God's and knowing God's judgment and still doing these abominable things are deserving death.

(Rom 1:32) ... knowing the righteous judgment of God, that those who practice such things are deserving of death ...

 

[jasoncran]

so if someone has a besetting sin that they cant change and is trapped in that sin and yet wants to change but cant.

sexual addictions do happen to some and it doesnt have to be homosexuality either. that person isnt truly saved?

im glad felix that you arent god, you understanding of grace isnt very strong

if we worried about sin each time we did it(we sin daily and non-stop if god were to really show us how wicked we are) then we wouldnt bother witnessing and telling others about him. yes we need to repent, but we are all that wicked if we are honest.

im such a person. a sinner who has been shown the mercy of god.

 

[felix]

so if someone has a besetting sin that they cant change and is trapped in that sin and yet wants to change but cant.

If someone can't change and still trapped in sin, it simply means, they are slaves of sin and not freed by Christ yet, therefore not truly saved because you can't see thw working of the Holy Spirit.

(John 8:34-35) Jesus answered them, "Most assuredly, I say to you, whoever commits sin is a slave of sin. And a slave does not abide in the house forever, [but] a son abides forever. Therefore if the Son makes you free, you shall be free indeed.

When fruit of holiness isn't found,

sexual addictions do happen to some and it doesnt have to be homosexuality either. that person isnt truly saved?

(Luke 3:9) "And even now the ax is laid to the root of the trees. Therefore every tree which does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire."

(2Pet 2:20-22) For if, after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the latter end is worse for them than the beginning. For it would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known [it,] to turn from the holy commandment delivered to them. But it has happened to them according to the true proverb: "A dog returns to his own vomit," and, "a sow, having washed, to her wallowing in the mire."

Scripture's answer to your question is: Nope, the person is NOT saved. Scripture calls that person a dog, referring his sin as vomit and that dog eats it's own vomit. Isn't these scripture passages clearer enough?

im glad felix that you arent god, you understanding of grace isnt very strong

(Heb 10:26-29) For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries. Anyone who has rejected Moses' law dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. Of how much worse punishment, do you suppose, will he be thought worthy who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified a common thing, and insulted the Spirit of grace?

To your question of asking me if I am god, the simple answer is Yes! I am a god. Do you have a problem with that? Then you have problem with Ps 82:6 and John 10:34.

if we worried about sin each time we did it(we sin daily and non-stop if god were to really show us how wicked we are) then we wouldnt bother witnessing and telling others about him. yes we need to repent, but we are all that wicked if we are honest.

im such a person. a sinner who has been shown the mercy of god.

(1Cor 6:18) Flee sexual immorality. Every sin that a man does is outside the body, but he who commits sexual immorality sins against his own body. (1Cor 3:16-17) Do you not know that you are the temple of God and [that] the Spirit of God dwells in you? If anyone defiles the temple of God, God will destroy him. For the temple of God is holy, which [temple] you are.

God will destroy the so called Christians who involve in sexual immoral sins because they defile the temple of God and what is holy.

The discussion is not about a sinner being shown mercy of God but sinning repeatedly, after God had shown mercy on him.

(1John 3:8) He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning.

 

[Sparkey]

If God were a computer database or the Big Man with a Book up in the sky, this question would be answered quite easily. The problem that I see here is the situation that is described is unchangable in that the scenario describes a man who is defined as continuously sinning. What? Can this man not go to God and ask? Can he no longer resist evil?

This is a false scenario. There is no such thing as a person who has no future. What we are speaking about is a psuedo-person, one who is defined for the purpose of argument in a chat-room. Of course this invention of our imaginations can not go to heaven. He/she also can not go to eternal punishment either. "They" don't exist. I could make a case that it is just a vain imagination.

 

[jasoncran]

If someone can't change and still trapped in sin, it simply means, they are slaves of sin and not freed by Christ yet, therefore not truly saved because you can't see thw working of the Holy Spirit.

(John 8:34-35) Jesus answered them, "Most assuredly, I say to you, whoever commits sin is a slave of sin. And a slave does not abide in the house forever, [but] a son abides forever. Therefore if the Son makes you free, you shall be free indeed.



(Luke 3:9) "And even now the ax is laid to the root of the trees. Therefore every tree which does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire."

(2Pet 2:20-22) For if, after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the latter end is worse for them than the beginning. For it would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known [it,] to turn from the holy commandment delivered to them. But it has happened to them according to the true proverb: "A dog returns to his own vomit," and, "a sow, having washed, to her wallowing in the mire."

Scripture's answer to your question is: Nope, the person is NOT saved. Scripture calls that person a dog, referring his sin as vomit and that dog eats it's own vomit. Isn't these scripture passages clearer enough?



(Heb 10:26-29) For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries. Anyone who has rejected Moses' law dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. Of how much worse punishment, do you suppose, will he be thought worthy who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified a common thing, and insulted the Spirit of grace?

To your question of asking me if I am god, the simple answer is Yes! I am a god. Do you have a problem with that? Then you have problem with Ps 82:6 and John 10:34.



(1Cor 6:18) Flee sexual immorality. Every sin that a man does is outside the body, but he who commits sexual immorality sins against his own body. (1Cor 3:16-17) Do you not know that you are the temple of God and [that] the Spirit of God dwells in you? If anyone defiles the temple of God, God will destroy him. For the temple of God is holy, which [temple] you are.

God will destroy the so called Christians who involve in sexual immoral sins because they defile the temple of God and what is holy.

The discussion is not about a sinner being shown mercy of God but sinning repeatedly, after God had shown mercy on him.

(1John 3:8) He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning.

ever lie more then once?
ever steal more then once?

shoot do any sin more then twice after repentance.
lying more then once that means you are damned to hell. that verse on loosing one salvation must be taken as such.

i dont take it that way but you do. if so then that sinner is damned and cant repent! so he need bother with church, that is my whole point.

no christian alive if there a honest has NOT struggled with a besetting sin. i have and i know other men who did that are great in the lord.

 

[felix]

ever lie more then once?
ever steal more then once?

shoot do any sin more then twice after repentance.
lying more then once that means you are damned to hell. that verse on loosing one salvation must be taken as such.

i dont take it that way but you do. if so then that sinner is damned and cant repent! so he need bother with church, that is my whole point.

no christian alive if there a honest has NOT struggled with a besetting sin. i have and i know other men who did that are great in the lord.

(Matt 7:18-22) "A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor [can] a bad tree bear good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. Therefore by their fruits you will know them. Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. Many will say to Me in that day, 'Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?'

The struggle which you mention is the 'birth pains' for the 'new creation' to be 'born of God' or ('born of Spirit' as Christ mentioned) who cannot sin. As long as there is struggle with past sins, the person is NOT born again and NOT a new creation in Christ. This must not be confused with temptations. Only people who are born of Spirit can enter 'Kingdom of Heaven'.

Scripture instructs a high standard and strict requirements for entering into His Kingdom which is often overlooked by churches and not taught with importance esp, the requirement for being holy.

As per, Jesus's Own Words in Matt 7:18-22, only a good tree can produce good fruits. For those who have bad fruits and calling themselves as good trees and justifying themselves using the grace of God and worshiping Christ as Lord, Lord, as per Jesus's own words in Matt 7:23, He will declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!'.

I often wonder why people don't accept the strictest requirement of holiness for salvation and to entering His Kingdom even if it comes from Jesus Christ Himself who is going to judge the world. I could only compare them to the people mentioned in 2 Peter 2.