Gospel & Law

[Elijah674]

One on another site ask this question:
here is the questions

CAN YOU SEPERATE THE BLOOD OF JESUS FROM HIS COVENANT OR HIS COVENANT FROM HIS BLOOD?

--Elijah here:
Are you asking if it can be done & still be IN CHRIST? The Eternal Covenant is the VERY MORAL MAKEUP OF THE GODHEAD! Their Perfect Character! 2 Cor. 3:3's [Christ's Epistle!] (or letter!) God IS LOVE, and the two Commandments are LOVE.

But yes, perfect Doctrines alone save NO ONE, yet Christ alone without His PERFECT DOCTRINES [IS FALSE DOCTRINE!] (just an empty meaning!)
We see Old Israel as in Isa. 5's Virgin Vineyard CHOOSING Christ's Vineyard over the Christ of His Vineyard. (ibid. 3)

And today ones claim Christ (Rom. 8:1) with NO Condemnation yet are seen in Rev. 17:1-5! (and one can take their Christless pick of that fact of Inspiration??) Being 'In Christ' has one LIVING THE LAW OF CHRIST! James 2:8-12's Royal Law [[OF LIBERTY]] when Obeyed.. [[[[IF!]]]] one will.

And anything other than that IS A CHRISTLESS/COPOUT. Phil. 4:13 + 2 Cor. 12:9 IS 'CONDITIONAL' SUPPLIED GRACE!! See Acts 5:32's Obedience qualification.

 

[Strangelove]

Justification is by faith. True faith is God's work (John 6:28-29), granted by God (John 1:29), and is concurrent with regeneration (2 Cor. 5:17), which God works in us by his will (John 1:13).

This result of this justification and regeneration is that the sinner turns from his sin and towards doing good works. But it is not these works that earn our place with God nor sustain it.

Jesus accomplished all that we need to be saved and stay saved on the cross. All that we need, we have in Jesus. All we need to do to be saved, to be justified, is to truly believe in what God has done for us in Jesus on the cross; this is why the Bible says we are justified by faith (Rom. 5:1).

This true belief with justification before God and regeneration in the new believer, results in good works.

Doc.

 

[Elijah674]

Justification is by faith. True faith is God's work (John 6:28-29), granted by God (John 1:29), and is concurrent with regeneration (2 Cor. 5:17), which God works in us by his will (John 1:13).

This result of this justification and regeneration is that the sinner turns from his sin and towards doing good works. But it is not these works that earn our place with God nor sustain it.

Jesus accomplished all that we need to be saved and stay saved on the cross. All that we need, we have in Jesus. All we need to do to be saved, to be justified, is to truly believe in what God has done for us in Jesus on the cross; this is why the Bible says we are justified by faith (Rom. 5:1).

This true belief with justification before God and regeneration in the new believer, results in good works.

Doc.

Absolutely True! And the saved saint at the Born Again 'Required' BEGINNING is PERFECTLY JUSTIFIED! Rom. 8:1 And you agree that OSAS IS FLAWED DOCTRINE?? YES?? If so, then we both 'see' verse 14 of BEING 'LED' REQUIRED! And if not, then what?

And the only thing from being Born Again that is REQUIRED OF US IS OBEDIENCE. And dis/obedience is dis/played in 1 John 3:4 'Whosever committeth [SIN] transgresseth [ALSO THE LAW] for [SIN IS THE TRANSGRESSION OF THE LAW].' (and that ain't Moses's law)

So: We find ourselves right back CONDEMNED when we KNOWINGLY SIN. The only difference is that now we are MATURING to manhood IN CHRIST. (If we do so!) Phil. 4:12-16

--Elijah

 

[Strangelove]

And the only thing from being Born Again that is REQUIRED OF US IS OBEDIENCE.

Yes, obedience to Christs two simple commandments to Love God and others.

I dont understand the rest of your post it's too confusing.

 

[apamburn]

Yeah....I have to agree StrangeLove. I read the post a few times scratching my head....but....

I believe that obedience to the Law alone will save no one. I think Christ made that clear enough during his ministry as did His Apostles throughout the New Testament.

Faith is the true fruit of a follower of Christ. However, we also read that "Faith without works is dead."

Faith must be the reason for obedience to the law. The pharisees were an example of people completely devoid of faith who obeyed the law exactly (or at least tried to act like they did). Pointless.

 

[Strangelove]

Yeah....I have to agree StrangeLove. I read the post a few times scratching my head....but....

I believe that obedience to the Law alone will save no one. I think Christ made that clear enough during his ministry as did His Apostles throughout the New Testament.

Faith is the true fruit of a follower of Christ. However, we also read that "Faith without works is dead."

Faith must be the reason for obedience to the law. The pharisees were an example of people completely devoid of faith who obeyed the law exactly (or at least tried to act like they did). Pointless.

Hi apamburn...welcome to the forums.

Yeah I think what James meant by "Faith without works is dead." is basically that if you say you have faith but there is no fruit..then you dont really have faith, which is so true because with true faith you become a new creature. Things will change in your life, we all know this to be true. Not all who say Lord Lord will make it.

We dont need to consciously be obediant to any written law. Fruit is born naturally from being in Christ.

Doc.

 

[Elijah674]

Agape Love! OK: Lets see where Christ quoted from & what Law He was referring to? (lets let the second Commandment just ride for now?

Matt 22
[33] And when the multitude heard this, they were astonished at his doctrine.
[34] But when the Pharisees had heard that he had put the Sadducees to silence, they were gathered together.
[35] Then one of them, which was a lawyer, asked him a question, tempting him, and saying,
[36] Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
[37] Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
[38] This is the first and great commandment.
[39] And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

Christ's Words come from His 'WORD' in Deut. 6:5, but note the verses from 1-9! Like His WORDS of Matt. 4:4
+ 2 Tim. 3:16's Whole BOOK of His Inspired Word of [LOVE.. GOD IS LOVE!] And one could see if they would where Christ gave his reply to satan's quoted 'inspired' verse of His (Christ's) in Psalms 91:11 that is again taken from Deut. 6:16's CONDITION to all salvation promises!

Deut.6
[1] Now these are the commandments, thestatutes, and the judgments, which the LORD your God commanded to teach you, that [ye might do them in the land whither ye go to possess it:]

[2] That thou mightest fear the LORD thy God, to keep all his statutes and his commandments, which I command thee, thou, and thy son, and thy son's son, all the days of thy life; and that thy days may be prolonged.
[3] Hear therefore, O Israel, and observe to do it; that it may be well with thee, and that ye may increase mightily, as the LORD God of thy fathers hath promised thee, in the land that floweth with milk and honey.

(And some today are attempting to get into that Land, right??? But what are they doing with the above??? Take note of how Christ QUOTED the Truth of what LOVE IS [ALL ABOUT] here to the tempting 'LAWYER'!)

[4] Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:
[5] And [thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.]

[6] And these words, which I command thee this day, shall be in thine heart:

[7] And thou shalt teach them diligently unto thy children, and shalt talk of them when thou sittest in thine house, and when thou walkest by the way, and when thou liest down, and when thou risest up.

(???? But most of the today Rev. 17:1-5 ones do not even know what God COMMANDS! They know not what HE is talking about.)

[8] And thou shalt bind them for a sign upon thine hand, and they shall be as frontlets between thine eyes.

(In the BRAIN! Seal them in thy MIND! 2 Cor. 3:3 & Heb. 10:15-16!)

[9] And thou shalt write them upon the posts of thy house, and on thy gates.

And something New? Eccl. 3:15 finds 1 John 1
....
[2] For the truth's sake, which dwelleth in us, and shall be with us for ever.
[3] Grace be with you, mercy, and peace, from God the Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of the Father, in truth and love.

[4] I rejoiced greatly that I found of thy children walking in truth, as we have received a commandment from the Father.
[5] And now I beseech thee, lady, not as though I wrote a new commandment unto thee, but that which we had from the beginning, that we love one another.
[6] And [[[this is love, that we walk after his commandments. This is the commandment,]]] That, [[as ye have heard from the beginning,]] ye should walk in it.

And the only thing new is the Omni/presence of Christ by the Holy Spirit PRESENTING CHRIST UNIVERSE WIDE! And that was told us in John 14:24-26.

And LOVE that is even Born Again can.. and will..in some live become SICKENING to Christ & will be Spewed out as such. Rev. 3:16-17 But some LOVE STILL?? Surely, but Christ just comes in below their wants & wishes. See Isa. 5:3 & John 1:42-43.

--Elijah

 

[smaller]

Hi apamburn...welcome to the forums.

Yeah I think what James meant by "Faith without works is dead." is basically that if you say you have faith but there is no fruit..then you dont really have faith, which is so true because with true faith you become a new creature. Things will change in your life, we all know this to be true. Not all who say Lord Lord will make it.

We dont need to consciously be obediant to any written law. Fruit is born naturally from being in Christ.

Doc.

The Law is 'spiritual.' (Romans 7:14)

Trying to drive a wedge between Gods Spiritual Words OF LAW and His Spiritual Words of GRACE are futile.

No man in his 'right' mind throws out Gods Words. All such tossers will learn NOTHING of Spiritual Matters of LAW.

In the Law there was CARNAL ORDINANCE for the times that existed. In that same LAW there were then, as there are now, SPIRITUAL MATTERS.

The LAW came by THE SPIRIT OF CHRIST in the 'order' of God which is first the NATURAL and then THE SPIRITUAL.

Those still standing on external carnal ordinance have not yet learned the lessons of what the Law intended to show. Those who throw out the Spiritual matters contained therein have been led OFF to dead ends by throwing away GODS WORDS.

Luke 8:15
But that on the good ground are they, which in an honest and good heart, having heard the word, keep it, and bring forth fruit with patience.

Luke 11:28
But he said, Yea rather, blessed are they that hear the word of God, and keep it.

John 14:23
Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

The 'carnal ordinances' of the Law were always to show us the realities of indwelling sin. The Spirit then leads and draws us by our NEED SHOWN into GOD in Christ and we are then trained by His Spirit in us, NOT throwing away GODS WORDS or HIS LAWS.

Paul laid out a CLEAR TRACK of performing ALL LAWS in Romans 13:8-10.

Those who are NOT led of Gods Spirit will not and CAN NOT find that track for any reason. Only The Spirit can lead a man into HIS Spiritual Matters.

enjoy!

smaller

 

[Strangelove]

And there you have it. Two of the most muddly...confusing posts you will EVER see in a row.

(**robot voice**)

Entering decryption code >>>>:::::}}}}}

Decrypt .....AcTiVAtE! """":::""":::""::::"":":":

 

[smaller]

And there you have it. Two of the most muddly...confusing posts you will EVER see in a row.

(**robot voice**)

Entering decryption code >>>>:::::}}}}}

Decrypt .....AcTiVAtE! """":::""":::""::::"":":":

I am still trying to understand Elijah, but I do try. He comes from the 7th Dayer perspectives, which I know somewhat well.

Thought my post was relatively easy quite frankly, but I also know that it rips against your understandings.

You maybe would do yourself well to understand other views rather than beat others with yours.

There are few christian positions that I have not personally examined or walked in.

A man learns nothing by taking offense.

enjoy!

smaller

 

[Elijah674]

I am still trying to understand Elijah, but I do try. He comes from the 7th Dayer perspectives, which I know somewhat well.

Thought my post was relatively easy quite frankly, but I also know that it rips against your understandings.

You maybe would do yourself well to understand other views rather than beat others with yours.

There are few christian positions that I have not personally examined or walked in.

A man learns nothing by taking offense.

enjoy!

smaller

Or the Psalms 77:13 willfully 'blind/brain/dead' ones who do not even know where Gods way is? + the ones who cannot even get past 1/2 Gospel that is NO Gospel at all, huh?

 

[Strangelove]

I am still trying to understand Elijah, but I do try. He comes from the 7th Dayer perspectives, which I know somewhat well.

Thought my post was relatively easy quite frankly, but I also know that it rips against your understandings.

You maybe would do yourself well to understand other views rather than beat others with yours.

There are few christian positions that I have not personally examined or walked in.

A man learns nothing by taking offense.

enjoy!

smaller

I'm saying Justification by Faith ALONE. Completely APART from works.

It's simple, basic Christian doctrine. Do you agree or object?

What are you saying? Whats your "view" that I need to understand?

Put is as simply as you can. (if thats possible)

 

[smaller]

I'm saying Justification by Faith ALONE. Completely APART from works.

It's simple, basic Christian doctrine. Do you agree or object?

My agreement is that faith works through Love.

I do not have to throw away GODS WORDS to agree with faith working through Love.

The fact remains that The Spirit of Christ SPOKE through the Prophets, inclusive of THE LAW. Those are THE WORDS OF GOD spoken through the Spirit of Christ in those men.

We do not have a requirement to NULLIFY the Law on the basis of FAITH. That is an error that God has locked you into, and there you may very well remain LOCKED.

What you DO and PRACTICE was outright DENIED by Paul, therefore I do not 'listen' to YOU.

Romans 3:31
Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid:

You can chortle that tune all the day long. I hold up your statements to Paul's and say, NOPE, you are off the trail. Not my issue.

What are you saying? Whats your "view" that I need to understand?

Put is as simply as you can. (if thats possible)

You can not or will not be led in understanding of that which you have CAST OUT, nor can you understand.

When God leads you, He will NOT lead you away from HIS OWN WORDS.

enjoy!

smaller

 

[smaller]

Or the Psalms 77:13 willfully 'blind/brain/dead' ones who do not even know where Gods way is? + the ones who cannot even get past 1/2 Gospel that is NO Gospel at all, huh?

My only request to you Elijah is to print in at least size 2 type so I can read it without my specs...

The Law has many things to say to us spiritually and CARNALLY.

The LAW condemns the CARNAL MAN and the SPIRIT OF THE LAW leads one to understand that same LAW.

It is not hard to divide or discern THE LAW when we come before God with the facts of LAW to our carnal man. We ARE sold under SIN. Indwelling SIN will not nor can NOT follow the carnal ordinances of the LAW.

The scripture of LAW has concluded ALL MANKIND are UNDER SIN.

No performances will ERADICATE that fact.

Wallow in that effort as you see fit. The most basic lesson of the Law will always elude such efforts.

The Law is NOT of faith, but a CONDEMNING INSTRUMENT made exactly for that purpose to THE CARNAL MAN. Those who do not take THE CONDEMNATION of the LAW have yet to find their way to CHRIST for their BEHEADING.

enjoy!

smaller

 

[Elijah674]

One on another site ask this question:
here is the questions

CAN YOU SEPERATE THE BLOOD OF JESUS FROM HIS COVENANT OR HIS COVENANT FROM HIS BLOOD?

--Elijah here:
Are you asking if it can be done & still be IN CHRIST? The Eternal Covenant is the VERY MORAL MAKEUP OF THE GODHEAD! Their Perfect Character! 2 Cor. 3:3's [Christ's Epistle!] (or letter!) God IS LOVE, and the two Commandments are LOVE.

But yes, perfect Doctrines alone save NO ONE, yet Christ alone without His PERFECT DOCTRINES [IS FALSE DOCTRINE!] (just an empty meaning!)
We see Old Israel as in Isa. 5's Virgin Vineyard CHOOSING Christ's Vineyard over the Christ of His Vineyard. (ibid. 3)

And today ones claim Christ (Rom. 8:1) with NO Condemnation yet are seen in Rev. 17:1-5! (and one can take their Christless pick of that fact of Inspiration??) Being 'In Christ' has one LIVING THE LAW OF CHRIST! James 2:8-12's Royal Law [[OF LIBERTY]] when Obeyed.. [[[[IF!]]]] one will.

And anything other than that IS A CHRISTLESS/COPOUT. Phil. 4:13 + 2 Cor. 12:9 IS 'CONDITIONAL' SUPPLIED GRACE!! See Acts 5:32's Obedience qualification.

If any cannot understand scripture verses, perhaps it is still that they are carnal? Heb. 5 does say some are on 'milk'. And Paul has it in the N.T. also that 'Spiritual things are spiritually discerned.' (1 Cor. 2:14)
And even while being in the New Testament, this is not even understood or discerned.

Perhaps seeing that some have a hard time of it? Let me post up 2 Peter 3..
[15] And account that thelongsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;

[16] As also in [all his epistles,] speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest,[ as they do also the other scriptures], unto their own destruction.

[17] Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness.

--Elijah

 

[Strangelove]

Indwelling SIN will not nor can NOT follow the carnal ordinances of the LAW.

**SHOCK**

Huh? Law Nullifier!!

Quick everyone...crucify him! He said the law is of no effect!

He said to throw the law away!! He wants us all to go out and sin because we have faith and dont need the law anymore! He's making VOID the law,,,,going against Pauls words!

Romans 3:31
Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid:

Aaaaaarrrgghhhh!!

 

[smaller]

**SHOCK**

Huh? Law Nullifier!!

Quick everyone...crucify him! He said the law is of no effect!

He said to throw the law away!! He wants us all to go out and sin because we have faith and dont need the law anymore! He's making VOID the law,,,,going against Pauls words!

Romans 3:31
Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid:

Aaaaaarrrgghhhh!!

Do you NOT proclaim to TOSS ALL LAWS of the O.T?

That is certainly your cry in nearly every post you make.

I accept ALL of Gods Words.

If you do not accept or understand why, then what do you want me to say about it? That's your claim. It is not the claim of Jesus or His Apostles, duly and briefly noted and measured against your claim.

s

 

[Strangelove]

Do you NOT proclaim to TOSS ALL LAWS of the O.T?

That is certainly your cry in nearly every post you make.

I accept ALL of Gods Words.

If you do not accept or understand why, then what do you want me to say about it? That's your claim. It is not the claim of Jesus or His Apostles, duly and briefly noted and measured against your claim.

s

LOLZ! Toss the Law...beautiful...ya,,,instead of quoting someone....hey....why not just make stuff up! Hooray....easy way to be disagreeable with someone even when you agree with them on the basics.

can NOT follow the carnal ordinances of the LAW.

LAW NULLIFIER!! How dare you go against God and the Apostles! Shame on you! Tossing the law like that...tsk tsk.

How's your no swine performance and Sabbath keeping coming along Mr.S?

 

[smaller]

LOLZ! Toss the Law...beautiful...ya,,,instead of quoting someone....hey....why not just make stuff up! Hooray....easy way to be disagreeable with someone even when you agree with them on the basics.

Uphold or throw away? If you are not upholding, you are categorically a throw awayer.

Feel free to uphold. If not, take the other category.

LAW NULLIFIER!! How dare you go against God and the Apostles! Shame on you! Tossing the law like that...tsk tsk.

How's your no swine performance and Sabbath keeping coming along Mr.S?

Your impositions of Law understandings, are, quite frankly, juvenile.

The scripture inclusive of LAW has concluded ALL under sin.

I accept that FINDING OF LAW and therefore UPHOLD The Law for these findings of FACT.

The Law is not my enemy for making this reality known, nor is it required to toss it away AFTER the finding of FACT.

Eat as much PORK as you like.

Jesus said it is NOT what enters a man from the outside that makes him defiled.

The Law is and remains SPIRITUAL, as it has been from the beginning.

enjoy!

smaller

 

[Elijah674]

One on another site ask this question:
here is the questions

CAN YOU SEPERATE THE BLOOD OF JESUS FROM HIS COVENANT OR HIS COVENANT FROM HIS BLOOD?

--Elijah here:
Are you asking if it can be done & still be IN CHRIST? The Eternal Covenant is the VERY MORAL MAKEUP OF THE GODHEAD! Their Perfect Character! 2 Cor. 3:3's [Christ's Epistle!] (or letter!) God IS LOVE, and the two Commandments are LOVE.

But yes, perfect Doctrines alone save NO ONE, yet Christ alone without His PERFECT DOCTRINES [IS FALSE DOCTRINE!] (just an empty meaning!)
We see Old Israel as in Isa. 5's Virgin Vineyard CHOOSING Christ's Vineyard over the Christ of His Vineyard. (ibid. 3)

And today ones claim Christ (Rom. 8:1) with NO Condemnation yet are seen in Rev. 17:1-5! (and one can take their Christless pick of that fact of Inspiration??) Being 'In Christ' has one LIVING THE LAW OF CHRIST! James 2:8-12's Royal Law [[OF LIBERTY]] when Obeyed.. [[[[IF!]]]] one will.

And anything other than that IS A CHRISTLESS/COPOUT. Phil. 4:13 + 2 Cor. 12:9 IS 'CONDITIONAL' SUPPLIED GRACE!! See Acts 5:32's Obedience qualification.

More of Inspiration:

Psalms 19

[1] The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork.
[2] Day unto day uttereth speech, and night unto night sheweth knowledge.

[3] There is no speech nor language, where their voice is not heard.
[4] Their line is gone out through all the earth, and their words to the end of the world. In them hath he set a tabernacle for the sun,

[5] Which is as a bridegroom coming out of his chamber, and rejoiceth as a strong man to run a race.
[6] His going forth is from the end of the heaven, and his circuit unto the ends of it: and there is nothing hid from the heat thereof.
[7] The law of the LORD is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the simple.

[8] The statutes of the LORD are right, rejoicing the heart: the commandment of the LORD is pure, enlightening the eyes.

[9] The fear of the LORD is clean, enduring for ever: the judgments of the LORD are true and righteous altogether.

[10] More to be desired are they than gold, yea, than much fine gold: sweeter also than honey and the honeycomb.

[11] Moreover by them is thy servant warned: and in keeping of them there is great reward.
[12] Who can understand his errors? cleanse thou me from secret faults.

[13] Keep back thy servant also from presumptuous sins; let them not have dominion over me: then shall I be upright, and I shall be innocent from the great transgression.