"gouge out your eye" . . . literal or figurative

[Free]

I did. I just wanted to be certain that was what you meant and I'm still not sure. Please be specific....do you believe those words were only written to the Jews of His day and not to us?

Mmm...I see it now. My choice of words were not the best, which seems to be a problem of mine lately.

It is also instructions to Christians but it is not a passage about Christians. It is about living a godly personal life, not corporate life.

 

[NIGHTMARE]

I did. I just wanted to be certain that was what you meant and I'm still not sure. Please be specific....do you believe those words were only written to the Jews of His day and not to us?

Mmm...I see it now. My choice of words were not the best, which seems to be a problem of mine lately.

It is also instructions to Christians but it is not a passage about Christians. It is about living a godly personal life, not corporate life.

It is also instructions to Christians but it is not a passage about Christians

 

[Free]

Was there a point you were making Nightmare?

 

[NIGHTMARE]

Was there a point you were making Nightmare?

Actually you made it for me,,,,,,before Christ instructs anything to be plucked out,,,He mentions the "light" and "salt" ,,,,I believe christians are the salt of the world I beleive "WE" are that "light".........and when WE encounter a part of the body that is not doing what there suppose to be doing "WE" PLUCK THEM OUT.......until they get a grip.....

 

[Rick W]

Christ wasn't teaching self-mutilation but rather the seriousness of sin.

 

[follower of Christ]

Not really O,,,,its not and I repeat no literal,,,,,,and heres why,,,,,my hand cant make me sin,,,my leg cant make me sin my elbow my hair nor my eyes or ears can make a person sin....

Ridiculous logic.
The woman next door also cant 'MAKE' you sin...so by your illogic you may as well keep right on tempting yourself by keeping in contact with her.

It isnt about what 'MAKES' us sin...NOTHING can MAKE us sin against our will.
Its about what TEMPTS us to sin and what ENABLES us to sin and removing those things IF necessary.

 

[follower of Christ]

Was there a point you were making Nightmare?

Actually you made it for me,,,,,,before Christ instructs anything to be plucked out,,,He mentions the "light" and "salt" ,,,,I believe christians are the salt of the world I beleive "WE" are that "light".........and when WE encounter a part of the body that is not doing what there suppose to be doing "WE" PLUCK THEM OUT.......until they get a grip.....

And Paul teaches that concept as well in 1 Cor 5.
Christs words are meant to show just how serious sin is and that it MUST BE dealt with in whatever manner necessary.
If someone is in open sin in the church, they may have to be expelled from the assembly...a little leaven works thru a whole batch...
If its the young woman next door tempting us, we need to separate ourselves from that temptation.
And EVEN IF a body part were the actual culprit, it IS BETTER to lop off that part than take it into hell and torment.

 

[NIGHTMARE]

Not really O,,,,its not and I repeat no literal,,,,,,and heres why,,,,,my hand cant make me sin,,,my leg cant make me sin my elbow my hair nor my eyes or ears can make a person sin....

Ridiculous logic.
The woman next door also cant 'MAKE' you sin...so by your illogic you may as well keep right on tempting yourself by keeping in contact with her.

It isnt about what 'MAKES' us sin...NOTHING can MAKE us sin against our will.
Its about what TEMPTS us to sin and what ENABLES us to sin and removing those things IF necessary.

Please ,,,you dont understand my logic nor the logic of the bible.......Stay on subject!!!! We are talking about one harming ones self,,,I was not talking about the implication of others....Go back read the scriptures and see that Christ is talking about Christians (the salt) casting off parts of the body of Christ.......

The woman next door also cant 'MAKE' you sin...so by your illogic you may as well keep right on tempting yourself by keeping in contact with her.

I believe comments like this come from your eagerness to prove my doctrine wrong,,,,you cant so your left with ,,,,well comments like this.......Maybe you should have kept reading the scriptures before you replyed and you would have ran into this....

28But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.

SO NO my confused little duck,,,,,your assesment of my logic and of scripture is incorrect.....

 

[NIGHTMARE]

Was there a point you were making Nightmare?

Actually you made it for me,,,,,,before Christ instructs anything to be plucked out,,,He mentions the "light" and "salt" ,,,,I believe christians are the salt of the world I beleive "WE" are that "light".........and when WE encounter a part of the body that is not doing what there suppose to be doing "WE" PLUCK THEM OUT.......until they get a grip.....

And Paul teaches that concept as well in 1 Cor 5.
Christs words are meant to show just how serious sin is and that it MUST BE dealt with in whatever manner necessary.
If someone is in open sin in the church, they may have to be expelled from the assembly...a little leaven works thru a whole batch...
If its the young woman next door tempting us, we need to separate ourselves from that temptation.
And EVEN IF a body part were the actual culprit, it IS BETTER to lop off that part than take it into hell and torment.

And EVEN IF a body part were the actual culprit, it IS BETTER to lop off that part than take it into hell and torment.

[/quote]

What are you talking about ,,,,,you wouldnt take that body part into hell nor heaven,,,,,cutting of your flesh arm doesnt mean when you die you will be missing a arm,,,,and you got nerve to speak on my logic.....

 

[follower of Christ]

Please ,,,you dont understand my logic nor the logic of the bible..

There is no understanding your 'logic'....

.....Stay on subject!!!!

If I break the rules, report me...otherwise mind your own business.

We are talking about one harming ones self,,,I was not talking about the implication of others....Go back read the scriptures and see that Christ is talking about Christians (the salt) casting off parts of the body of Christ.......

We are talking about what the OP presented...

I believe comments like this come from your eagerness to prove my doctrine wrong,,,,you cant so your left with ,,,,well comments like this.......Maybe you should have kept reading the scriptures before you replyed and you would have ran into this....

Sorry gent, but Jesus is showing a matter of INDIVIDUAL sin and our ridding ourselves of whatever it takes to get away from the sin...even a body part if need be.

SO NO my confused little duck,,,,,your assesment of my logic and of scripture is incorrect.....

Your 'logic' is the least of my concerns, gent.

 

[follower of Christ]

What are you talking about ,,,,,you wouldnt take that body part into hell nor heaven,,,,,cutting of your flesh arm doesnt mean when you die you will be missing a arm,,,,and you got nerve to speak on my logic.....

And that is exactly the point ;)
Losing something HERE and NOW, such as a hand, is NOTHING seeing that it wont matter anyway at resurrection.
It is BETTER to rid ourselves of the cause of the sin rather than end up in hell over it ;)

 

[Orion]

But theivery doesn't take place in the hand. You can cut off both hands and still desire to take what doesn't belong to you. It all comes back to what I said, . . .that this type of ideology can ONLY resolve itself with the ultimate "sacrifice", taking your own life to keep from sinning anymore (after you ask for forgiveness, that is).

 

[NIGHTMARE]

Please ,,,you dont understand my logic nor the logic of the bible..

There is no understanding your 'logic'....

.....Stay on subject!!!!

If I break the rules, report me...otherwise mind your own business.

[quote:1o6vsdj5]We are talking about one harming ones self,,,I was not talking about the implication of others....Go back read the scriptures and see that Christ is talking about Christians (the salt) casting off parts of the body of Christ.......

We are talking about what the OP presented...

I believe comments like this come from your eagerness to prove my doctrine wrong,,,,you cant so your left with ,,,,well comments like this.......Maybe you should have kept reading the scriptures before you replyed and you would have ran into this....

Sorry gent, but Jesus is showing a matter of INDIVIDUAL sin and our ridding ourselves of whatever it takes to get away from the sin...even a body part if need be.

SO NO my confused little duck,,,,,your assesment of my logic and of scripture is incorrect.....

Your 'logic' is the least of my concerns, gent.[/quote:1o6vsdj5]

If I break the rules, report me...otherwise mind your own business.

LOL nah,,,,,I dont go running to the mods......

Sorry gent, but Jesus is showing a matter of INDIVIDUAL sin and our ridding ourselves of whatever it takes to get away from the sin...even a body part if need be.

NO way was Christ telling people to cut off any part of there body.......

 

[Aero_Hudson]

But theivery doesn't take place in the hand. You can cut off both hands and still desire to take what doesn't belong to you. It all comes back to what I said, . . .that this type of ideology can ONLY resolve itself with the ultimate "sacrifice", taking your own life to keep from sinning anymore (after you ask for forgiveness, that is).

Jesus was being dramatic to make a point. I do this myself all of the time as I am sure most people do. His point...do whatever it takes to resist sin. You must resist! It actually has nothing to do with mutilating yourself.

 

[Heidi]

Was Jesus being literal when he said, "if your eye offends you, cut it out"? If the premise is that "a person is better to enter heaven with one eye than burn for all eternity with both eyes", . . . is that a way to handle the situation? If figurative, then we can look at what was said with the "shock factor" that perhaps was intended.

However, IF it were meant to be literal, . . . is it good counsel? If someone steals something, does "cutting off the hand" do anything to address the reason why the person felt the desire/need to steal? If summary judgement just cuts off the hand, you then have a person with one less hand and still the issues he originally had that caused his initial actions. It would be better to counsel him, find out why he feels the need to steal, . . . or whatever his behavior is (lust, lying, etc), and work with him to address them, find a solution that will work, . . . in other words, rehabilitate him to become a better person in society! The other way, you just have disfigured people, who will probably become jaded, still carrying the catalyst that caused the deviant behavior.

That's why I COULD only see such a statement (cutting off the hand, gouging the eye) as a "shock factor", not meant to be taken literal, but to get people's attention, to make them SEE what is being said, reflect on it, and come to a place in their life where THEY CHOOSE to change who they are.

I am not going to debate with anyone who tells me that "I am wrong to believe it to be figurative". This is the way I feel. I am interested in hearing your take on the story and your reasoning.

And. . . . . . . . . . begin!

Absolutely literal. I have wanted to cut out my eye or cut off my arm when I'm tempted to sin because i know the cost of sinning. It hurts God, it hurts me and it hurts those around me. So I'd rather go around with one eye or one arm than to deliberately sin.

 

[Aero_Hudson]

Was Jesus being literal when he said, "if your eye offends you, cut it out"? If the premise is that "a person is better to enter heaven with one eye than burn for all eternity with both eyes", . . . is that a way to handle the situation? If figurative, then we can look at what was said with the "shock factor" that perhaps was intended.

However, IF it were meant to be literal, . . . is it good counsel? If someone steals something, does "cutting off the hand" do anything to address the reason why the person felt the desire/need to steal? If summary judgement just cuts off the hand, you then have a person with one less hand and still the issues he originally had that caused his initial actions. It would be better to counsel him, find out why he feels the need to steal, . . . or whatever his behavior is (lust, lying, etc), and work with him to address them, find a solution that will work, . . . in other words, rehabilitate him to become a better person in society! The other way, you just have disfigured people, who will probably become jaded, still carrying the catalyst that caused the deviant behavior.

That's why I COULD only see such a statement (cutting off the hand, gouging the eye) as a "shock factor", not meant to be taken literal, but to get people's attention, to make them SEE what is being said, reflect on it, and come to a place in their life where THEY CHOOSE to change who they are.

I am not going to debate with anyone who tells me that "I am wrong to believe it to be figurative". This is the way I feel. I am interested in hearing your take on the story and your reasoning.

And. . . . . . . . . . begin!

Absolutely literal. I have wanted to cut out my eye or cut off my arm when I'm tempted to sin because i know the cost of sinning. It hurts God, it hurts me and it hurts those around me. So I'd rather go around with one eye or one arm than to deliberately sin.

Speak for yourself and define deliberatly. We are all human. We will sin, guaranteed. I will absolutely learn from my sin but cutting off an appendage is downright crazy!

 

[Orion]

It's emotional sensationalism.

 

[Heidi]

Was Jesus being literal when he said, "if your eye offends you, cut it out"? If the premise is that "a person is better to enter heaven with one eye than burn for all eternity with both eyes", . . . is that a way to handle the situation? If figurative, then we can look at what was said with the "shock factor" that perhaps was intended.

However, IF it were meant to be literal, . . . is it good counsel? If someone steals something, does "cutting off the hand" do anything to address the reason why the person felt the desire/need to steal? If summary judgement just cuts off the hand, you then have a person with one less hand and still the issues he originally had that caused his initial actions. It would be better to counsel him, find out why he feels the need to steal, . . . or whatever his behavior is (lust, lying, etc), and work with him to address them, find a solution that will work, . . . in other words, rehabilitate him to become a better person in society! The other way, you just have disfigured people, who will probably become jaded, still carrying the catalyst that caused the deviant behavior.

That's why I COULD only see such a statement (cutting off the hand, gouging the eye) as a "shock factor", not meant to be taken literal, but to get people's attention, to make them SEE what is being said, reflect on it, and come to a place in their life where THEY CHOOSE to change who they are.

I am not going to debate with anyone who tells me that "I am wrong to believe it to be figurative". This is the way I feel. I am interested in hearing your take on the story and your reasoning.

And. . . . . . . . . . begin!

Absolutely literal. I have wanted to cut out my eye or cut off my arm when I'm tempted to sin because i know the cost of sinning. It hurts God, it hurts me and it hurts those around me. So I'd rather go around with one eye or one arm than to deliberately sin.

Speak for yourself and define deliberatly. We are all human. We will sin, guaranteed. I will absolutely learn from my sin but cutting off an appendage is downright crazy!

You don't have to understand it. But again, I would much rather go around maimed and crippled and honor God in my heart and mind because nothing worldly is worth the price of my soul. But I'm beginning to see how rare I am. Nevertheless I don't care. My earthly life is but a mist. My real life lasts forever. So my Lord is my life.

 

[Aero_Hudson]

You don't have to understand it. But again, I would much rather go around maimed and crippled and honor God in my heart and mind because nothing worldly is worth the price of my soul. But I'm beginning to see how rare I am. Nevertheless I don't care. My earthly life is but a mist. My real life lasts forever. So my Lord is my life.

Do you think it furthers God's Kingdom to walk around maimed for "sinning"? Do you think this will be a good example to those that we wish to bring to Christ? My answer would be no. They would think you are crazy. That doesn't do the Kingdom of God any good.

 

[NIGHTMARE]

Was Jesus being literal when he said, "if your eye offends you, cut it out"? If the premise is that "a person is better to enter heaven with one eye than burn for all eternity with both eyes", . . . is that a way to handle the situation? If figurative, then we can look at what was said with the "shock factor" that perhaps was intended.

However, IF it were meant to be literal, . . . is it good counsel? If someone steals something, does "cutting off the hand" do anything to address the reason why the person felt the desire/need to steal? If summary judgement just cuts off the hand, you then have a person with one less hand and still the issues he originally had that caused his initial actions. It would be better to counsel him, find out why he feels the need to steal, . . . or whatever his behavior is (lust, lying, etc), and work with him to address them, find a solution that will work, . . . in other words, rehabilitate him to become a better person in society! The other way, you just have disfigured people, who will probably become jaded, still carrying the catalyst that caused the deviant behavior.

That's why I COULD only see such a statement (cutting off the hand, gouging the eye) as a "shock factor", not meant to be taken literal, but to get people's attention, to make them SEE what is being said, reflect on it, and come to a place in their life where THEY CHOOSE to change who they are.

I am not going to debate with anyone who tells me that "I am wrong to believe it to be figurative". This is the way I feel. I am interested in hearing your take on the story and your reasoning.

And. . . . . . . . . . begin!

Absolutely literal. I have wanted to cut out my eye or cut off my arm when I'm tempted to sin because i know the cost of sinning. It hurts God, it hurts me and it hurts those around me. So I'd rather go around with one eye or one arm than to deliberately sin.

You sound like your letting your emotions cloud the wisdom of Christ,,,maybe you should go read it again..........