What's new
By:
Filters
Christian Forums

This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

Guilt

M

MayDay

Member
If the belief in hell primarily creates a mindset of fear, that we will be punished by unimaginable pain if we do not adhere to the stipulations of Jesus the Christ. The primary stipulation that we must believe in him exclusively, that any deviation from his particular world view will result in torture seems to act as a catalyst for internal justification of one's beliefs.

This primary fear of hell installs itself in the mind of every new believer, and once this premise is fully accepted the believer is instantly trapped with guilt. From here the believer must stay dependant on the conditions Jesus the Christ has specified, otherwise they risk total damnation.

We can say that the believer has to fully accept and surrender themselves to Jesus the Christ in order that they may avoid this ghastly place. No evidence is required to debunk this primary belief because the mind has already accepted the idea of hell, and the believer will reject all evidence that might threaten their safe passage out of burning for all eternity.
 
Sort by date Sort by votes
MayDay said:
No evidence is required to debunk this primary belief...
Click to expand...
Why would it be necessary to debunk the doctrine of Hell (Gehenna, the Lake of Fire)? Since Jesus Himself warned His hearers many times about Hell, everyone should know and believe that there is a real eternal place of torment called the Lake of Fire, prepared for the devil and his angels, but also for those who reject Christ as their Lord and Savior.

Christians however, have been saved or delivered from Hell, because Christ paid the penalty for their sins. And all many be saved from Hell if all will repent and believe on the Lord Jesus Christ. That is the whole point of preaching the Gospel of Christ (the Gospel of the Grace of God).
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
Nathan12 said:
Why would it be necessary to debunk the doctrine of Hell (Gehenna, the Lake of Fire)? Since Jesus Himself warned His hearers many times about Hell, everyone should know and believe that there is a real eternal place of torment called the Lake of Fire, prepared for the devil and his angels, but also for those who reject Christ as their Lord and Savior.

Christians however, have been saved or delivered from Hell, because Christ paid the penalty for their sins. And all many be saved from Hell if all will repent and believe on the Lord Jesus Christ. That is the whole point of preaching the Gospel of Christ (the Gospel of the Grace of God).
Click to expand...
See that's my point. What is believed is not a situation that grants certainty. If I believed my cat has been run over by a car for that fact it ran away, there is no way to grant certainty unless I actually find my cat on the road flat as a pancake.

A belief or beliefs are just that, a process of thinking about possible scenarios for unknown situations, which doesn't grant any certainty.
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
MayDay said:
If the belief in hell primarily creates a mindset of fear, that we will be punished by unimaginable pain if we do not adhere to the stipulations of Jesus the Christ
Click to expand...
You have not demonstrated that a belief in hell creates a climate of fear that believers will be punished.

Also your theology is false as it is not believers in Jesus who face punishment in hell, but unbelievers.
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
Who Me said:
You have not demonstrated that a belief in hell creates a climate of fear that believers will be punished.

Also your theology is false as it is not believers in Jesus who face punishment in hell, but unbelievers.
Click to expand...
Since all people start as non-believers then your climate of fear has been overthrown by a belief that your place in hell is squashed.

So long as you hold onto your particular beliefs, you will have nothing to fear. But as I mentioned, beliefs do not equal certainty. However I do realise that if a belief is strong enough, that belief will seem real.
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
MayDay said:
Well hell and damnation are the same, and your not fully free from sin until your resurrection day.

So in reality all Christian's have to look forward to in the here and now is the comfort they will not land in hell.
Click to expand...

I don't think I'd make it so cut and dried. We all live in the gray area between heaven and hell, and a lot happens here. But ultimately, there is a choice that must be made.
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
KevinK said:
I don't think I'd make it so cut and dried. We all live in the gray area between heaven and hell, and a lot happens here. But ultimately, there is a choice that must be made.
Click to expand...
I haven't noticed that there is a universal constant that we've globally discovered that proves we have some choice to make. This choice you speak of is exclusive to the theology of the Bible. However if we take a page from the matrix saga, there is also a choice that is hardwired into each human who's connected to the machine's dream world. This choice allows the human occupants of the dream world to reject the matrix on a subconscious level, but it is only a formality. No one actually chooses to reject the dream world due to the alternative. Except for neo, who's rejection of the matrix was entirely based on one condition. That he loved someone outside the matrix.
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
MayDay said:
If the belief in hell primarily creates a mindset of fear, that we will be punished by unimaginable pain if we do not adhere to the stipulations of Jesus the Christ. The primary stipulation that we must believe in him exclusively, that any deviation from his particular world view will result in torture seems to act as a catalyst for internal justification of one's beliefs.

This primary fear of hell installs itself in the mind of every new believer, and once this premise is fully accepted the believer is instantly trapped with guilt. From here the believer must stay dependant on the conditions Jesus the Christ has specified, otherwise they risk total damnation.

We can say that the believer has to fully accept and surrender themselves to Jesus the Christ in order that they may avoid this ghastly place. No evidence is required to debunk this primary belief because the mind has already accepted the idea of hell, and the believer will reject all evidence that might threaten their safe passage out of burning for all eternity.
Click to expand...
I think you have the understanding of hell backwards. Scripture doesn't say that if we fail to do this or that we will be punished in hell. What Scripture does say is because of our sin nature or natural tendency to reject God we are all destined for hell.

But, God, in His infinite wisdom and love has provided us a way out by coming to earth in human flesh, living the perfect life that we are incapable of, was the ultimate sacrificial Lamb for our sins, and rose again in defeat of death.

Jesus Himself said, "God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved. He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God." John 3:16-18 NKJV

This is the promise from God. Repent or turn away from your sinful life and turn to God and believe and you too can be saved.
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
MayDay said:
A belief or beliefs are just that, a process of thinking about possible scenarios for unknown situations, which doesn't grant any certainty.
Click to expand...
Certainty is built into the words of Christ, who is God. So if He says there is a Hell, there is no doubt there is one. Then the question remains "Have I responded to the Gospel so that I do not face Hell?"
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
MayDay said:
Does the belief in hell perpetuate entrapment?
Click to expand...

Does the reality of prison do the same, to perpetuate entrapment?

Think about it this way. In the justice system, those who break the law suffer the penalties whether it's a fine, or it's jail time. Is this a constant fear to make people be law abiding? Perhaps in some situations, where a person restrains themseves due to the laws saying to not harm another. They might restrain their anger, or their lust, or even restrain their desire to steal. However beyond those few moments, people act the way they do without consideration of breaking the law or jail time. Because most of what they like to do isn't breaking the law.

Now think about the point of hell. It's not prison time. It's the ultimate punishment. And it's also stated that without God's forgiveness, mercy, and grace, that we all deserve to go there due to our sinful natures. But God in His grace and mercy provided a way out of that destination. Is this entrapment? No more then obeying the laws of the land is entrapment for anyone living in the land.

Love God and seek Him. If you find Him you've found a real and brilliant treasure. Worth more then all you own. Keep that in mind. That God is a treasure, not a burden. That should help resolve the idea of staying close to God out of entrapment. Loving a sport and playing by the rules of the game are not a burden either for the person who finds joy in the game. It might be considered like a treasure too, instead of thinking on the terms of being restricted, like if the sport is legal or if they are restricted by not playing an illegal game.

Hope that helps.
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
WIP said:
I think you have the understanding of hell backwards. Scripture doesn't say that if we fail to do this or that we will be punished in hell. What Scripture does say is because of our sin nature or natural tendency to reject God we are all destined for hell.

But, God, in His infinite wisdom and love has provided us a way out by coming to earth in human flesh, living the perfect life that we are incapable of, was the ultimate sacrificial Lamb for our sins, and rose again in defeat of death.

Jesus Himself said, "God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved. He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God." John 3:16-18 NKJV

This is the promise from God. Repent or turn away from your sinful life and turn to God and believe and you too can be saved.
Click to expand...
Belief is exactly this or that.
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
Nathan12 said:
Certainty is built into the words of Christ, who is God. So if He says there is a Hell, there is no doubt there is one. Then the question remains "Have I responded to the Gospel so that I do not face Hell?"
Click to expand...
Certainty is built on what is actually verifiable, wouldn't you agree? Or is it normal for beliefs to generally be accepted as facts before they've been verified.
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
MayDay said:
Certainty is built on what is actually verifiable, wouldn't you agree? Or is it normal for beliefs to generally be accepted as facts before they've been verified.
Click to expand...
Do you really want to verify the reality of Hell?????

When God says something it needs no verification. The Lord Jesus Christ is TRUTH and the written Word of God is also the truth.
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top