Bible Study Has Judas Iscariot gotten a bad rap?

[ChristianNationalist]

Lately I've been wondering if perhaps the NT's greatest villain was instead Jesus' greatest apostle. The story of Judas as a betrayer simply doesn't add up to me.

1) He was entrusted with the disciples' money pouch. This was no small sum of money, when the 5,000 were hungry the disciples suggested to Jesus that they go to town to purchase food for them. They had enough money to simply buy food for 5,000 people without worry. This tells me they actually had well in excess of the funds required for such a feat and only a man considered above reproach would be entrusted with such a sum.

2) 30 pieces of silver is a decent amount of money, but it doesn't come close to what was in that money pouch. You couldn't have fed 5,000 people (keep in mind that isn't including women and children) with it. There would have been far less risk for a disillusioned Judas to simply abscond with the money pouch. He could have just disappeared instead of leading one group of armed men to arrest another group of armed men (at least one disciple had a sword, I think probably more) and hope that even if he doesn't get hurt in a possible violent confrontation that the Pharisees wouldn't simply betray him and hang the lot of em.

3) It was part of God's plan. Out of all the apostles, Peter included, nobody's role was as important to God's plan as Judas'. Somebody had to betray Jesus, why wouldn't the most trusted apostle be sent to do it?

Of course, I could simply be reading too much into it.

 

[NinaMMitchell]

Personally, I agree wtih you. I don't think you're reading too much into it at all. Actually, I think a lot of people don't read enough into things, or just take Bible stories as black and white, and say they happened word for word the way the Bible says. Don't get me wrong, I'm not debunking the Bible or anything, but I do think that things may not have happened exactly the way we think they did. Why do I think this? Well, take the different versions of the crucificiton, none of them tell the exact same story. Yes, the main parts are there, Jesus is crucified and then rises from the dead, but there are other things that are different in each version. Another reason is because I don't think the gospels were written by Matthew, Mark, Luke and John. Yes, they are their accounts of what happened, but as told by someone else. The third reason is because the Bible was put together and edited by PEOPLE. People make mistakes, and most importantly, if no one says they can't, people will change things to how they want them to be. I don't think it's wrong of me to say that, but it's just my opinion.

 

[reba]

Mat 14:15 And when it was evening, his disciples came to him, saying, This is a desert place, and the time is now past; send the multitude away, that they may go into the villages, and buy themselves victuals.
Mat 14:16 But Jesus said unto them, They need not depart; give ye them to eat.
Mat 14:17 And they say unto him, We have here but five loaves, and two fishes.
Mat 14:18 He said, Bring them hither to me.
Mat 14:19 And he commanded the multitude to sit down on the grass, and took the five loaves, and the two fishes, and looking up to heaven, he blessed, and brake, and gave the loaves to his disciples, and the disciples to the multitude.

Mat 15:34 And Jesus saith unto them, How many loaves have ye? And they said, Seven, and a few little fishes.
Mat 15:35 And he commanded the multitude to sit down on the ground.
Mat 15:36 And he took the seven loaves and the fishes, and gave thanks, and brake them, and gave to his disciples, and the disciples to the multitude.
Mat 15:37 And they did all eat, and were filled: and they took up of the broken meat that was left seven baskets full.


Jesus was sent by the Father to die
The Jewish leaders of the day sent Him to the Romans for the killing
The Romans did the job
Yet He died for my sin
No greater love...

 

[ChristianNationalist]

Ah, but you leave out where they discuss buying provisions for them.

Luke 9:12 Now the day began to wear away, and the twelve came and said to him, “Send the crowd away to go into the surrounding villages and countryside to find lodging and get provisions, for we are here in a desolate place.â€

Luke 9:13 But he said to them, “You give them something to eat.†They said, “We have no more than five loaves and two fish—unless we are to go and buy food for all these people.â€

 

[Sparkey]

Did Judas get a "bad rap"?
Was he falsely charged with a wrongful act? Or did he do wrong?

The prayer of Jesus:

"And all mine are thine, and thine are mine; and I am glorified in them. And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are. While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled."

Clearly Jesus was speaking of Judas, one of the twelve. The word, 'Perdition' is 'apōleia' which Strongs defines as a noun meaning, "destroying, utter destruction --perishing, ruin." Mark tells us that the Jews were looking for a sly way to arrest Jesus. We are told that Judas went to them (not the other way around) and sought to betray him (for the promise of money) --see Mark 14:10-11.

But the most damning fact is heard from Luke who states simply, "Then Satan entered Judas, called Iscariot, one of the Twelve" (Luke 22:3). Judas arrived on the scene accompanied by Priests and armed soldiers, and identified Jesus with a kiss.

________________________________________

So then the question again, did Judas get a bad rap?

 

[reba]

Ah, but you leave out where they discuss buying provisions for them.

I guess we just read it differently.... Coming from my sarcastic mind set i read that like sheeesh how can we buy enough food for 5000 + folks...

 

[reba]

No more of a bad rap them Esau, Pharaoh, etc. He is the potter we the clay...

 

[Hitch]

Lately I've been wondering if perhaps the NT's greatest villain was instead Jesus' greatest apostle. The story of Judas as a betrayer simply doesn't add up to me.

1) He was entrusted with the disciples' money pouch. This was no small sum of money, when the 5,000 were hungry the disciples suggested to Jesus that they go to town to purchase food for them. They had enough money to simply buy food for 5,000 people without worry. This tells me they actually had well in excess of the funds required for such a feat and only a man considered above reproach would be entrusted with such a sum.

2) 30 pieces of silver is a decent amount of money, but it doesn't come close to what was in that money pouch. You couldn't have fed 5,000 people (keep in mind that isn't including women and children) with it. There would have been far less risk for a disillusioned Judas to simply abscond with the money pouch. He could have just disappeared instead of leading one group of armed men to arrest another group of armed men (at least one disciple had a sword, I think probably more) and hope that even if he doesn't get hurt in a possible violent confrontation that the Pharisees wouldn't simply betray him and hang the lot of em.

3) It was part of God's plan. Out of all the apostles, Peter included, nobody's role was as important to God's plan as Judas'. Somebody had to betray Jesus, why wouldn't the most trusted apostle be sent to do it?

Of course, I could simply be reading too much into it.

Exodus 21;32

 

[Sparkey]

Exodus 21;32
"Exd 21:32 (HNV) — If the bull gores a man-servant or a maid-servant, thirty shekels of silver shall be given to their master, and the ox shall be stoned.

(Zec 11:12-13 HNV) - "I said to them, "If you think it best, give me my wages; and if not, keep them." So they weighed for my wages thirty pieces of silver. The LORD said to me, "Throw it to the potter, the handsome price that I was valued at by them!" I took the thirty pieces of silver, and threw them to the potter, in the house of the LORD."

(Mat 26:15 HNV) - "and said, "What are you willing to give me, that I should deliver him to you?" They weighed out for him thirty pieces of silver."
(Mat 27:4-7 HNV) - "saying, "I have sinned in that I betrayed innocent blood." But they said, "What is that to us? You see to it." He threw down the pieces of silver in the sanctuary, and departed. He went away and hanged himself. The chief Kohanim [Priest] took the pieces of silver, and said, "It's not lawful to put them into the treasury, since it is the price of blood." They took counsel, and bought the potter's field with them, to bury strangers in."

 

[John 8:32]

Lately I've been wondering if perhaps the NT's greatest villain was instead Jesus' greatest apostle. The story of Judas as a betrayer simply doesn't add up to me.

1) He was entrusted with the disciples' money pouch. This was no small sum of money, when the 5,000 were hungry the disciples suggested to Jesus that they go to town to purchase food for them. They had enough money to simply buy food for 5,000 people without worry. This tells me they actually had well in excess of the funds required for such a feat and only a man considered above reproach would be entrusted with such a sum.

2) 30 pieces of silver is a decent amount of money, but it doesn't come close to what was in that money pouch. You couldn't have fed 5,000 people (keep in mind that isn't including women and children) with it. There would have been far less risk for a disillusioned Judas to simply abscond with the money pouch. He could have just disappeared instead of leading one group of armed men to arrest another group of armed men (at least one disciple had a sword, I think probably more) and hope that even if he doesn't get hurt in a possible violent confrontation that the Pharisees wouldn't simply betray him and hang the lot of em.

3) It was part of God's plan. Out of all the apostles, Peter included, nobody's role was as important to God's plan as Judas'. Somebody had to betray Jesus, why wouldn't the most trusted apostle be sent to do it?

Of course, I could simply be reading too much into it.

Mat 26:24 The Son of man goeth as it is written of him: but woe unto that man by whom the Son of man is betrayed! it had been good for that man if he had not been born.

Mar 14:21 The Son of man indeed goeth, as it is written of him: but woe to that man by whom the Son of man is betrayed! good were it for that man if he had never been born.

Luk 22:22 And truly the Son of man goeth, as it was determined: but woe unto that man by whom he is betrayed!

I wonder how this will work out for Christ's greatest apostle?

 

[phantom309]

I believe the bible is pretty clear on the level of deception displayed by Judas,regardless of how we may read into it.

Judas deliberately betrayed Jesus in exchange for 30 silver.

Yes,Jesus knew it would happen but it doesnt change the fact that it was the wrong thing to do,a despicable decision.Sure,we all have faults and obviously we make mistakes..still this doesnt change what took place.

As far as reading into things and making our own deductions..at some points Ill agree that we do have to read between the lines,but this is also one of the chief potential problems in my opinion.Most of the time the bible lays things out fairly simply and I believe for good reason.The moment we take it upon ourselves to fill in the blanks weve potentially changed the whole meaning of the intended scenario.Its just something we have to be very careful with.

Before that is taken the wrong way though,Im not stating that youve deliberately rearranged the bible or anything.it just seems to me to be a far stretch to state that a man who deliberately and purposely betrayed Jesus,whether by prohecy or no,is somehow a good guy or misinterpreted.

To me it would be like saying that Hitler was one of the greatest misunderstood people in world history..after all God knew it would happen and somebody had to start a world war and kill all those Jews.Sounds a bit extreme to some Im sure,but no less wrong than betraying the only hope of humanity.

 

[Sparkey]

I believe that Jesus loved Judas.

"Love suffers long and is kind ... [love] does not seek its own ... [love] is not provoked, thinks no evil; does not rejoice in iniquity, but rejoices in the truth;

[Love] bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things. Love never fails."

Ultimately, Judas will be judged by Jesus and not by me. I don't know the innermost thoughts of the man called Judas. Better for me then to guard my own heart and to take heed to the fact that our God is a God of Justice so that His Mercy is not found to be in vain (for me). To me, the story of Judas is a warning, one of the many found in the Bible.

(Rom 11:21-22 NKJV) - "For if God did not spare the natural branches, He may not spare you either. Therefore consider the goodness and severity of God: on those who fell, severity; but toward you, goodness, if you continue in His goodness. Otherwise you also will be cut off."

(2Pe 2:4-5, 9-11 NKJV) - "For if God did not spare the angels who sinned, but cast them down to hell and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved for judgment; and did not spare the ancient world, but saved Noah, ...

then the Lord knows how to deliver the godly out of temptations and to reserve the unjust under punishment for the day of judgment,


and especially those who walk according to the flesh in the lust of uncleanness and despise authority. They are presumptuous, self-willed. They are not afraid to speak evil of dignitaries, whereas angels, who are greater in power and might, do not bring a reviling accusation against them before the Lord."

 

[Pizzaguy]

I guess we just read it differently.... Coming from my sarcastic mind set i read that like sheeesh how can we buy enough food for 5000 + folks...

In two of the Gospels, it is recorded that the they objected saying, "That it would require over half a year's wages to give them even a taste of bread"....

I do not believe they had enough in the treasury to buy a meal for 5,000.

On the other hand, I do believe that, while Satan DID enter into him, I think Judas actually thought he was doing what had to be done. Judas did not KNOW that Satan had entered him.

I believe that Judas actually believed very much in Jesus, and that he wanted to "force Jesus' hand" so to speak. The idea being that if Jesus was forcefully confronted, He would rise up and establish His kingdom then and there.

Judas may have just had a small enough mind to NOT understand what the plan really was (not that ANY of the disciples REALLY understood.)
.
REMEMBER what Christ himself told Judas:

John 13:27-28

New International Version (NIV)

27 As soon as Judas took the bread, Satan entered into him. So Jesus told him, “What you are about to do, do quickly.” 28 But no one at the meal understood why Jesus said this to him.

I think that Judas was terribly confused and DO agree that the amount of money seems to be inconsistent with money being a motivating factor.

 

[Mike]

On the other hand, I do believe that, while Satan DID enter into him, I think Judas actually thought he was doing what had to be done. Judas did not KNOW that Satan had entered him.

I believe that Judas actually believed very much in Jesus, and that he wanted to "force Jesus' hand" so to speak. The idea being that if Jesus was forcefully confronted, He would rise up and establish His kingdom then and there.

But it seems to me that selfish ambition is the sin that separates us from Christ's Righteousness across the board when people are lead away by evil and succumb to its pursuits. Regardless of whether it was "not him" taking matters into his own hands, Judas did subvert Jesus' Plan.

Mat 26:24 The Son of man goeth as it is written of him: but woe unto that man by whom the Son of man is betrayed! it had been good for that man if he had not been born.

Mar 14:21 The Son of man indeed goeth, as it is written of him: but woe to that man by whom the Son of man is betrayed! good were it for that man if he had never been born.

Luk 22:22 And truly the Son of man goeth, as it was determined: but woe unto that man by whom he is betrayed!

As John 8:32 (the member, not the verse ) said, and as Sparrowhawk quoted John 17:12 "While I was with them, I protected them and kept them safe by that name you gave me. None has been lost except the one doomed to destruction so that Scripture would be fulfilled.", I don't see how anyone can imply that Judas as the greatest disciple of all.

Hebrews 6
"4 It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, 5 who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age, 6 if they fall away, to be brought back to repentance, because to their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace."

True, he was fulfilling prophecy in doing what he did, but there are many evil things prophesied that came to pass. People have had delusions throughout time that they new better than God the path that they should take.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

...only a man considered above reproach would be entrusted with such a sum.

4 But one of his disciples, Judas Iscariot, who was later to betray him, objected, 5 “Why wasn’t this perfume sold and the money given to the poor? It was worth a year’s wages.” 6 He did not say this because he cared about the poor but because he was a thief; as keeper of the money bag, he used to help himself to what was put into it. (John 12:4-6 NIV1984)

Judas was a ratfink all along.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

In two of the Gospels, it is recorded that the they objected saying, "That it would require over half a year's wages to give them even a taste of bread"....

I do not believe they had enough in the treasury to buy a meal for 5,000.

 

[ChristianNationalist]

4 But one of his disciples, Judas Iscariot, who was later to betray him, objected, 5 “Why wasn’t this perfume sold and the money given to the poor? It was worth a year’s wages.†6 He did not say this because he cared about the poor but because he was a thief; as keeper of the money bag, he used to help himself to what was put into it. (John 12:4-6 NIV1984)

Judas was a ratfink all along.

That line has always actually troubled me, it reads like something tacked on without authority. It makes an assumption about motive that the writer couldn't possibly actually know and if it was true he was stealing from the money bag then he obviously would have no longer been trusted with it. The fact that he was trusted with it all the way up until the murder of Jesus tells me either nobody knew about it (in which case they would never have found out) or that it didn't happen.

How does the writer know all these things 60 years later when they weren't part of the other 3 accounts? It smacks of embellishment to me.

 

[Sparkey]

That line has always actually troubled me, it reads like something tacked on without authority. It makes an assumption about motive that the writer couldn't possibly actually know and if it was true he was stealing from the money bag then he obviously would have no longer been trusted with it. The fact that he was trusted with it all the way up until the murder of Jesus tells me either nobody knew about it (in which case they would never have found out) or that it didn't happen.

How does the writer know all these things 60 years later when they weren't part of the other 3 accounts? It smacks of embellishment to me.

So you don't think that the Holy Ghost could have revealed this to John when He wrote the Gospel through him? I believe that the Bible is God-Authored. But that's another topic.

Given that the bible contains mistakes as you allege, do you believe that Judas was given a bad rap, and as the OP alleges, was the "greatest apostle"? Revelations 21 speaks of the Holy City -- and we are told that the names of the Apostles of the Lamb are written in the foundations. Judas' name was replaced.

(Act 1:24-26 KJV) - "And they prayed, and said, Thou, Lord, which knowest the hearts of all men, shew whether of these two thou hast chosen, That he may take part of this ministry and apostleship, from which Judas by transgression fell, that he might go to his own place. And they gave forth their lots; and the lot fell upon Matthias; and he was numbered with the eleven apostles."
________________________________

As to the "how" of it all... recall that Jesus was with them for 40 days after His resurrection. He taught the disciples at that time and revealed things to them. We see this in Acts 1:2-3 where we find Jesus giving the apostles commandments and speaking of the things pertaining to the kingdom of God. Again in Luke 24:27 we see Jesus, beginning with Moses and all the Prophets, explaining to His disciples what was said in the Scriptures concerning himself. And again in Luke 24:32 where the disciples’ “hearts burned” as Jesus “opened the Scripture” to them. They once were blind to the truth of the Bible but Jesus gave them spiritual sight.

The apostles and others were also filled with the Holy Ghost on the day of Pentecost. The Holy Spirit is called "The Teacher" and "Counselor" as well as "Comforter". Is it so strange that one of their questions -- in fact, the very question that the Apostle John asked at the Last Supper as he reclined his head upon the bosom of our Lord would be revealed?

To believe that the knowledge of what Judas was doing would be kept from them and that John "embellished" and made the story more entertaining and interesting by adding details that are false denies the veracity and character of the Apostle John himself.

 

[reba]

That line has always actually troubled me, it reads like something tacked on without authority. It makes an assumption about motive that the writer couldn't possibly actually know and if it was true he was stealing from the money bag then he obviously would have no longer been trusted with it. The fact that he was trusted with it all the way up until the murder of Jesus tells me either nobody knew about it (in which case they would never have found out) or that it didn't happen.

How does the writer know all these things 60 years later when they weren't part of the other 3 accounts? It smacks of embellishment to me.

And Jesse James was a good guy

 

[jasoncran]

me thinks satan got a bad rap too.