Has the Gifts of the Spirit ceased?

[hisbeloved]

I wish to use scripture to prove that the Gifts have not ceased.
only that many people have ceased to seek them.

I believe that we must use scripture to interpret scripture, And yes Paul did indicate, that what started at Pentecost would end,but he said that it would not end, until that which was perfect has come, when does this
perfection happen?

Notice in I Cor.13:12 Paul goes on to explain by saying,For now we see through a glass,darkley:but then face to face:now I know in part;but then shall I know even as I am known,.where does this "then" happen?

answer: when we see him face to face at the resurrection.

1John 3:2 Beloved,now are we the son's of God,and it doth not yet appear what we shall be, but we know that when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

And again Paul talks about the perfection which comes at the resurrection in phil 3:11-12 If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead.Not as though I had already attained,either were already perfect.

Although the gifts did not manifest until the day of Pentecost ,When were the gifts gifts given?

Eph 4:8 Wherefore he saith, when he asended up on high,he led captivity captive,and gave gifts to men.

what was the reason for the gifts?

Eph 4:11 And he gave some,apostles; and some prophets;and some evangelist; and some pastors and teachers
12 For the perfecting of the saints,for the work of the ministry,for the edifying of the body of Christ.

How long will he be giving gifts to man?

Eph 4:13 Till we all come into the unity of the faith,and of the knowledge of the Son of God.unto a perfect man,unto the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ.

Now I want to talk about another list gifts that are mentioned in 1cor 12:8-10 word of wisdom,word of knowledge,faith,gifts of healing,miracles,prophecy,discerning of spirits,tongues and,interpretation of tongues

Who are these gifts of the spirit for? Paul say's they are for the body of Christ,and that there is only one body,
and one spirit.

1cor12:12-13 For as the body is one,and hath many members,and all the members of that one body,being many, are one body,so also is Christ.For by one Spirit,we are all baptized into one body.

We all know that in Acts 2:1-8 is where we see the day of Pentecost begin, which is where the gift of the Spirit of promise is first poured out.
Then Theophilus in Acts 2:37-38 tells us about a group of people after Pentecost, that want the gift of the spirit of promise too, he goes on to tell them in Acts2:39 For this promise is unto you and your children, and to all that are afar off,even as many as the Lord shall call.


So going backwards now, If the gifts of the Spirit have ceased,then that means.

1. The Lord is no longer calling people
2.there is one body of Christ during Pauls time and one body of our time which equals two bodies of Christ
3 there are two spirits,one in Pauls time and a different one in ours
4.Christians have already been perfected
5.The body of Christ no longer needs to be edified,or built up
6.the work of the ministry has ended.specifically,evangelist,teachers and pastors.

This would also mean that all pastors teachers and evangelist are working without a gift and thereby are working through their flesh,because these
were listed as gifts too and because ,according to those who say the gifts have ceased ,faith hope and love is all there is left.

Every bit of this in red contradicts all of the above scripture referrences above,

 

[Asyncritus]

Let's take the gift of tongues as the prime example, and the one most popularised and 'practised' today.

You know what I mean: people rolling about on the floor, mouthing extraordinary gibberish, frothing at the lips, etc etc and claiming that this is the Holy Spirit at work.

It is such a shame, that theology has prevented so many translators from being honest about it, and using the word 'languages' instead of 'tongues', which is the genuine meaning of the word.

In the old English of the AV, 'tongues' meant 'languages'. That is what those translators meant when they put the word 'tongues' there.

Modern translators have absolutely no excuse for continuing the practice. They know full well that 'languages' is what the apostle meant, but still they persist in its use.

They don't hesitate to use the word 'languages' in v10 and 11 of 1 Cor 14, where the word for 'voice' is used in the Greek:

10 There are doubtless many different languages (Gk. phone) in the world, and none is without meaning,
11 but if I do not know the meaning of the language (Gk. phone), I will be a foreigner to the speaker and the speaker a foreigner to me.

Gk. phone is quite literally, a 'voice' - but clearly, a 'language' is meant, and that is what is placed there in all the modern versions I've looked at. Which is entirely reasonable.

There is one passage which gives the reason why the gift of tongues was given, and everybody ignores it completely. Here it is, in full:

1 Cor 14.21 ¶ In the Law it is written, “By people of strange tongues and by the lips of foreigners will I speak to this people, and even then they will not listen to me, says the Lord.â€

Which people? Isaiah tells us that it is the Jews. Not the entire world.

22 Thus tongues are a sign not for believers but for unbelievers, while prophecy is a sign not for unbelievers but for believers.

How is it done today? In churches, where believers congregate. Entirely against the very plain scripture.

Don't the leaders read these passages? And if they do, why do they ignore them?

There is also the clear statement that these things will cease:

1 Cor 13: 10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.

When is that going to be? Clearly NOT at the return of Christ, when they will be again in the earth in quantity.

When, then? Answer, when the Jews no longer existed as a nation to whom God wanted a witness made. When was that ? AD70.

 

[Alabaster]

I wish to use scripture to prove that the Gifts have not ceased.
only that many people have ceased to seek them.

I believe that we must use scripture to interpret scripture, And yes Paul did indicate, that what started at Pentecost would end,but he said that it would not end, until that which was perfect has come, when does this
perfection happen?

Notice in I Cor.13:12 Paul goes on to explain by saying,For now we see through a glass,darkley:but then face to face:now I know in part;but then shall I know even as I am known,.where does this "then" happen?

answer: when we see him face to face at the resurrection.

1John 3:2 Beloved,now are we the son's of God,and it doth not yet appear what we shall be, but we know that when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

And again Paul talks about the perfection which comes at the resurrection in phil 3:11-12 If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead.Not as though I had already attained,either were already perfect.

Although the gifts did not manifest until the day of Pentecost ,When were the gifts gifts given?

Eph 4:8 Wherefore he saith, when he asended up on high,he led captivity captive,and gave gifts to men.

what was the reason for the gifts?

Eph 4:11 And he gave some,apostles; and some prophets;and some evangelist; and some pastors and teachers
12 For the perfecting of the saints,for the work of the ministry,for the edifying of the body of Christ.

How long will he be giving gifts to man?

Eph 4:13 Till we all come into the unity of the faith,and of the knowledge of the Son of God.unto a perfect man,unto the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ.

Now I want to talk about another list gifts that are mentioned in 1cor 12:8-10 word of wisdom,word of knowledge,faith,gifts of healing,miracles,prophecy,discerning of spirits,tongues and,interpretation of tongues

Who are these gifts of the spirit for? Paul say's they are for the body of Christ,and that there is only one body,
and one spirit.

1cor12:12-13 For as the body is one,and hath many members,and all the members of that one body,being many, are one body,so also is Christ.For by one Spirit,we are all baptized into one body.

We all know that in Acts 2:1-8 is where we see the day of Pentecost begin, which is where the gift of the Spirit of promise is first poured out.
Then Theophilus in Acts 2:37-38 tells us about a group of people after Pentecost, that want the gift of the spirit of promise too, he goes on to tell them in Acts2:39 For this promise is unto you and your children, and to all that are afar off,even as many as the Lord shall call.


So going backwards now, If the gifts of the Spirit have ceased,then that means.

1. The Lord is no longer calling people
2.there is one body of Christ during Pauls time and one body of our time which equals two bodies of Christ
3 there are two spirits,one in Pauls time and a different one in ours
4.Christians have already been perfected
5.The body of Christ no longer needs to be edified,or built up
6.the work of the ministry has ended.specifically,evangelist,teachers and pastors.

This would also mean that all pastors teachers and evangelist are working without a gift and thereby are working through their flesh,because these
were listed as gifts too and because ,according to those who say the gifts have ceased ,faith hope and love is all there is left.

Every bit of this in red contradicts all of the above scripture referrences above,

 

[Alabaster]

Let's take the gift of tongues as the prime example, and the one most popularised and 'practised' today.

You know what I mean: people and claiming that this is the Holy Spirit at work.

I speak in tongues, as do most of my friends, and I have yet to see anyone 'rolling about on the floor, mouthing extraordinary gibberish, frothing at the lips, etc etc'.

To me, that is how Satan would cause people to describe it.

It is such a shame

Indeed.


Reasons for tongues:

1 Corinthians 14:4a;5b;26 NLT
A person who speaks in tongues is strengthened personally

unless someone interprets what you are saying so that the whole church will be strengthened.

26 Well, my brothers and sisters, let’s summarize. When you meet together, one will sing, another will teach, another will tell some special revelation God has given, one will speak in tongues, and another will interpret what is said. But everything that is done must strengthen all of you.

 

[Asyncritus]

I speak in tongues, as do most of my friends, and I have yet to see anyone 'rolling about on the floor, mouthing extraordinary gibberish, frothing at the lips, etc etc'.

To me, that is how Satan would cause people to describe it.

Indeed.

I regret to hear that you do this, Alabaster.

Can you tell me when you last spoke to 'this people' in 'tongues'?

Paul states quite clearly that the purpose of tongues was to speak prophetically TO THE JEWS. Here's a newer version on the matter: HCSB

21 ¶ It is written in the law:

By people of other languages
and by the lips of foreigners,
I will speak to this people;
and even then, they will not listen to Me,

says the Lord.

So whoever you think you're speaking to, 'they will not listen to Me' says the Lord.

So if you're talking in tongues to yourself, then you won't hear what you're saying.

If you're talking to others, then they won't hear you either.

And if you're not taking to 'this people', ie the Jews, then you're not doing what scripture says.

Not a pretty sight.

Reasons for tongues:


2 For the person who speaks in /another/ language is not speaking to men but to God, since no one understands him; however, he speaks mysteries in the Spirit.

Note, NO ONE UNDERSTANDS HIM. Do you understand yourself when you do this?

Isn't it obvious that he means that if X is speaking in tongues, and there is no one there to interpret what he is saying, then only God can understand it?

And if it so happens that the language you yourself speak, if it is incomprehensible to others, then whatever it is that you are saying, is only understandable to yourself, and may strengthen you, because IT IS A PROPHECY, since God says 'will I speak to this people'.

It isn't a random gibberish-generating exercise. It is God speaking - not something you yourself call up at will when you feel like it.

5 I wish all of you spoke in other languages, but even more that you prophesied. The person who prophesies is greater than the person who speaks in languages, unless he interprets so that the church may be built up.

So the tongue speaker could interpret. Can you? Do you? If you don't then you're benefitting nobody as Paul goes on to say in the next verse:

6 ¶ But now, brothers, if I come to you speaking in /other/ languages, how will I benefit you unless I speak to you with a revelation or knowledge or prophecy or teaching?

It's again obvious that he's saying that if he himself shows up speaking German or Urdu, and nobody in the meeting understands those languages, then he's wasting his time, UNLESS HE TALKS A LANGUAGE THEY UNDERSTAND?

So he says, if there is nobody to interpret, then shut up.

28 But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God.

As you quote:

God has given, one will speak in tongues, and another will interpret what is said. But everything that is done must strengthen all of you.[/QUOTE]

So again, if there is no interpreter, then shut up - because you're wasting everybody's time. Without the interpreter, speaking in other languages will certainly not strengthen the church - in fact it'll make other people think you're mad:

14. 23 If therefore the whole church be come together into one place, and all speak with tongues, and there come in those that are unlearned, or unbelievers, will they not say that ye are mad?

As I said before,

22 Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not...

So if you're strengthening yourself, you're not doing the job tongues was designed to do.

 

[hisbeloved]

I regret to hear that you do this, Alabaster.

Can you tell me when you last spoke to 'this people' in 'tongues'?

Paul states quite clearly that the purpose of tongues was to speak prophetically TO THE JEWS. Here's a newer version on the matter: HCSB

21 ¶ It is written in the law:

By people of other languages
and by the lips of foreigners,
I will speak to this people;
and even then, they will not listen to Me,

says the Lord.

So whoever you think you're speaking to, 'they will not listen to Me' says the Lord.

So if you're talking in tongues to yourself, then you won't hear what you're saying.

If you're talking to others, then they won't hear you either.

And if you're not taking to 'this people', ie the Jews, then you're not doing what scripture says.

Not a pretty sight.

Reasons for tongues:


2 For the person who speaks in /another/ language is not speaking to men but to God, since no one understands him; however, he speaks mysteries in the Spirit.

Note, NO ONE UNDERSTANDS HIM. Do you understand yourself when you do this?

Isn't it obvious that he means that if X is speaking in tongues, and there is no one there to interpret what he is saying, then only God can understand it?

And if it so happens that the language you yourself speak, if it is incomprehensible to others, then whatever it is that you are saying, is only understandable to yourself, and may strengthen you, because IT IS A PROPHECY, since God says 'will I speak to this people'.

It isn't a random gibberish-generating exercise. It is God speaking - not something you yourself call up at will when you feel like it.

5 I wish all of you spoke in other languages, but even more that you prophesied. The person who prophesies is greater than the person who speaks in languages, unless he interprets so that the church may be built up.

So the tongue speaker could interpret. Can you? Do you? If you don't then you're benefitting nobody as Paul goes on to say in the next verse:

6 ¶ But now, brothers, if I come to you speaking in /other/ languages, how will I benefit you unless I speak to you with a revelation or knowledge or prophecy or teaching?

It's again obvious that he's saying that if he himself shows up speaking German or Urdu, and nobody in the meeting understands those languages, then he's wasting his time, UNLESS HE TALKS A LANGUAGE THEY UNDERSTAND?

So he says, if there is nobody to interpret, then shut up.

28 But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God.

As you quote:

God has given, one will speak in tongues, and another will interpret what is said. But everything that is done must strengthen all of you.

So again, if there is no interpreter, then shut up - because you're wasting everybody's time. Without the interpreter, speaking in other languages will certainly not strengthen the church - in fact it'll make other people think you're mad:

14. 23 If therefore the whole church be come together into one place, and all speak with tongues, and there come in those that are unlearned, or unbelievers, will they not say that ye are mad?

As I said before,

22 Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not...

So if you're strengthening yourself, you're not doing the job tongues was designed to do.[/QUOTE]



You obviously either don't know or are choosing to overlook the fact that there are two types of tongues, one that calls for an interpretation,this is the gift of tongues, and another which is the evidence of the baptism of the Holy Ghost,which is a prayer language,that requires no interpretation,and it's purpose is to strengthen and build up of the one doing it,it also gives us the ability to pray the perfect will of God,which means it is doing the job that is was designed to do.

And yes ,it is true ,that if the first type is spoken out loud it requires an interpretation.(gift of tongues),this also the type that Paul is referring to when he say's that not all speak in tongues,meaning not all have this gift.

And it is also true ,that the prayer language tongues are not to be spoken aloud in the presense of unbelievers,like you quoted above, because they would think we were mad.

But your reasoning of; because people are speaking in tongues(prayer language tongues) ,out loud without an interpreter, is evidence that this gift has ceased, shows a very flawed logic.

Futher more ,I have never seen the gift of tongues(the one that requires an interpretation) fail to be interpreted.
And if you were ever present in a service where this happened,you would no longer be an unbeliever, because just before this happens,there is such a quite hush and stillness that comes over the whole congregation,you could hear a pin drop,even the babies make no sound,then the one with the gift of tongues speaks,then the interpretation comes,usually through a different person,the presense of God is so tangable and heavy,before during and after one can hardly stand it.


One more thing, you said
"Paul states quite clearly that the purpose of tongues was to speak prophetically TO THE JEWS. Here's a newer version on the matter: HCSB

How in the world do you get that Paul was saying that this is the purpose of tongues out of this scripture?


21 ¶ It is written in the law:

By people of other languages
and by the lips of foreigners,
I will speak to this people;
and even then, they will not listen to Me,

That's like saying, that because Jesus came to the Jews first and they turned him down
that makes his crucifiction void for anybody else.

 

[Sparkey]

Has the topic changed? I thought this topic was about the Gifts of the Holy Spirit. Seems that some would like to change the topic to "Did the Holy Spirit give the gift of tongues and if so what does that mean today," which is a valid enough topic in itself but they are two different things.

For my part? I've witnessed many of the Gifts of the Holy Spirit within my lifetime. Personally I think that instead of their use becoming less a part of the regular walk of Christians the words of Jesus, that we will do "greater things" will be seen to be true.

Regarding "tongues":
(1Cr 12:30-31 KJV) - "(30) Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret? (31) But covet earnestly the best gifts: and yet shew I unto you a more excellent way."

If we limit our understanding of the word "glōssa" (which refers to the tongue, the actual organ of the body in the mouth) to mean languages then try to translate that way (limited to the meaning: language or languages) it comes out silly. The Gift of Tongues is means more than the natural ability to speak in language. It means more than being bilingual. If that were the case (and anybody who could speak in language or was bilingual) then we would be forced into some very strange interpretations indeed.

Consider 1Cor 12:30-31

• "Have all the gifts of healing?" ---> no
• "Do all speak with tongues (languages)?" -----> Do we think that the "Gift of Tongues" is being used at the United Nations today? Or is there something special, given by the Holy Spirit that is mentioned? The only way we can understand the Question is by knowing that there is a difference between speaking in tongues (which ability often accompanies the Baptism of the Holy Spirit) and using the actual "Gift of Tongues" in the assembly.
• "Do all interpret?" ---> Under the United Nations use of languages intrepretation, no - only those that are bilingual serve that function. What Paul was teaching is that all things must be done in for the edification of the body. He was talking to those in Corinth who were out of line in their use of Tongues and had made a "unsure sound" in the assembly. So he was saying that there should be order, that the Gift of Tonges (not just speaking in tongues privately, another valid use) was to be accompanied by the Gift of Intrepretation. And that for the benefit of all.

Paul also specifically said, "Forbid not the speaking in tongues," and "I speak in tongues more than ye all." Do we think that he meant that at every opportunity while gathered together in an assembly that Paul would jump up and speak in tongues when he said that he spoke in tongues more than all of them? Or could it be that he was talking about two different things. The later is my view. Christians can speak in tongues (privately and unto God) and they can also be used by the Holy Spirit to deliver a message to the body (the assembly). When the formal "Gift of Tongues" is being used for God to speak to the assembly, Paul was saying that it must be accompanied by the companion gift, the gift of intrepretation of tonges, else nobody would understand. That is not to say that people can't pray to God in tongues but only saying tht when the Gift of Tongues is being used, it should be done in order to build (edify) the body of Christ.

When we look at the multiple examples of "tongues" in the bible, we are compelled to acknowledge that is something special being spoken about here (other than mere languages) because when we examine how the Gentiles were admitted into the faith by Peter and the apostles we see that Peter allowed them to be baptized in water based on what he knew to be true, that God wanted it that way. That was a big deal and there was a debate on the subject. The issue was concluded based on Peter's word that they had been baptized on the Holy Spirit and he witnessed the fact. How then, he argued, could they stop them from joining through water baptism.

He would not have supported such a change if there wasn't ample evidence of God's purpose. Peter took the fact that he saw God baptize them and heard them "for they heard them speak with tongues" as that evidence. Peter wanted to follow the will of God and understood that unto the uncircumcized Gentiles was given the Promise of the Father (the baptism of the Spirit) because he heard them speak in tongues. Later in Jerusalem he argued that Gentiles must be allowed to be water baptized because they too had been baptized in the Spirit of God. He knew that unto the Gentiles had "the Holy Spirit been poured out," for he heard them speak in tongues and said that the Gift of the Holy Spirit was given to them, "just as we have [been baptized in the HS]," meaning like they were in the beginning [at Pentecost]. The Gifts of the Holy Spirit (including tongues) are indeed Holy. They can be nothing else because they are given by God for reason. They are the gifts that are given to the Body of Christ and do indeed continue even today.

(Act 10:44-48 NKJV) -
"(44) While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell upon all those who heard the word.

(45) And those of the circumcision who believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out on the Gentiles also.

(46) For they heard them speak with tongues and magnify God. Then Peter answered,

(47) "Can anyone forbid water, that these should not be baptized who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have?"

(48) And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then they asked him to stay a few days."

 

[taromina2003]

You don't need to prove all that. The Holy Spirit is alive and well in all our brothers and sisters, we just need to be quiet at times and let him work, could be that our destiny is nothing more than breaking a chain of 2 or 3 generations of drug or alcohol abuse or whatever kind of abuse for our future grandchildren when you think about it that is quite an accomplishment. The good LORD will let you know what your gift is if you ask and then listen and accept it that is the least we can do. Think of Jonah and the whale.

 

[Bonairos]

I wish to use scripture to prove that the Gifts have not ceased.
only that many people have ceased to seek them.

And as a result, unfortunately, for some, they (the gifts) have ceased.


Be blessed, Stay blessed!

 

[hisbeloved]

Has the topic changed? I thought this topic was about the Gifts of the Holy Spirit. Seems that some would like to change the topic to "Did the Holy Spirit give the gift of tongues and if so what does that mean today," which is a valid enough topic in itself but they are two different things.

For my part? I've witnessed many of the Gifts of the Holy Spirit within my lifetime. Personally I think that instead of their use becoming less a part of the regular walk of Christians the words of Jesus, that we will do "greater things" will be seen to be true.

Regarding "tongues":
(1Cr 12:30-31 KJV) - "(30) Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret? (31) But covet earnestly the best gifts: and yet shew I unto you a more excellent way."

If we limit our understanding of the word "glōssa" (which refers to the tongue, the actual organ of the body in the mouth) to mean languages then try to translate that way (limited to the meaning: language or languages) it comes out silly. The Gift of Tongues is means more than the natural ability to speak in language. It means more than being bilingual. If that were the case (and anybody who could speak in language or was bilingual) then we would be forced into some very strange interpretations indeed.


Consider 1Cor 12:30-31

• "Have all the gifts of healing?" ---> no
• "Do all speak with tongues (languages)?" -----> Do we think that the "Gift of Tongues" is being used at the United Nations today? Or is there something special, given by the Holy Spirit that is mentioned? The only way we can understand the Question is by knowing that there is a difference between speaking in tongues (which ability often accompanies the Baptism of the Holy Spirit) and using the actual "Gift of Tongues" in the assembly.
• "Do all interpret?" ---> Under the United Nations use of languages intrepretation, no - only those that are bilingual serve that function. What Paul was teaching is that all things must be done in for the edification of the body. He was talking to those in Corinth who were out of line in their use of Tongues and had made a "unsure sound" in the assembly. So he was saying that there should be order, that the Gift of Tonges (not just speaking in tongues privately, another valid use) was to be accompanied by the Gift of Intrepretation. And that for the benefit of all.

Paul also specifically said, "Forbid not the speaking in tongues," and "I speak in tongues more than ye all." Do we think that he meant that at every opportunity while gathered together in an assembly that Paul would jump up and speak in tongues when he said that he spoke in tongues more than all of them? Or could it be that he was talking about two different things. The later is my view. Christians can speak in tongues (privately and unto God) and they can also be used by the Holy Spirit to deliver a message to the body (the assembly). When the formal "Gift of Tongues" is being used for God to speak to the assembly, Paul was saying that it must be accompanied by the companion gift, the gift of intrepretation of tonges, else nobody would understand. That is not to say that people can't pray to God in tongues but only saying tht when the Gift of Tongues is being used, it should be done in order to build (edify) the body of Christ.

When we look at the multiple examples of "tongues" in the bible, we are compelled to acknowledge that is something special being spoken about here (other than mere languages) because when we examine how the Gentiles were admitted into the faith by Peter and the apostles we see that Peter allowed them to be baptized in water based on what he knew to be true, that God wanted it that way. That was a big deal and there was a debate on the subject. The issue was concluded based on Peter's word that they had been baptized on the Holy Spirit and he witnessed the fact. How then, he argued, could they stop them from joining through water baptism.

He would not have supported such a change if there wasn't ample evidence of God's purpose. Peter wanted to follow the will of God and understood that unto the uncircumcized Gentiles was given the Promise of the Father (the baptism of the Spirit) because he heard them speak in tongues. Later in Jerusalem he argued that Gentiles must be allowed to be water baptized because they too had been baptized in the Spirit and that he knew that unto the Gentiles had "the Holy Spirit been poured out, like as we, in the beginning [at Pentecost], for he heard them speak in tongues. The Gifts of the Holy Spirit (including tongues) are indeed Holy. They can be nothing else because they are given by God for reason.

Regarding the changing of topic,it seems that ASYNCRITUS, either does not realize that there are other gifts, or that, he like so many,does not understand that there are two types of tongues and therefore he calls foul and to him this means that the gifts have ceased.

I truely feel sorry for people who have never experienced God beyond salvation,
if they only knew what they were missing.

 

[Hitch]

Isnt a better question 'What is being done with the Gifts'?

Is TBN a window on what should be expected if the Gifts are in operation ?

Maybe the latest the rapture is next week prophecy watcher?

 

[taromina2003]

Isnt a better question 'What is being done with the Gifts'?

Is TBN a window on what should be expected if the Gifts are in operation ?

Maybe the latest the rapture is next week prophecy watcher?

That reminds me of something I watched on the telly this morning, I saw a televangelist (quite a popular one) telling his congregation not to worry when the anti-Christ comes we will be gone the Father is just going to "rapture"then away. I cried. I prayed. Surely a child of the LORD does not believe this non-sense! Pray for them.

 

[Hitch]

That reminds me of something I watched on the telly this morning, I saw a televangelist (quite a popular one) telling his congregation not to worry when the anti-Christ comes we will be gone the Father is just going to "rapture"then away. I cried. I prayed. Surely a child of the LORD does not believe this non-sense! Pray for them.

Sad as it may be ,that is a very popular doctrine in the US and very common among the pentecostal groups.

 

[taromina2003]

I speak in tongues, as do most of my friends, and I have yet to see anyone 'rolling about on the floor, mouthing extraordinary gibberish, frothing at the lips, etc etc'.

To me, that is how Satan would cause people to describe it.



Indeed.


Reasons for tongues:

1 Corinthians 14:4a;5b;26 NLT
A person who speaks in tongues is strengthened personally

unless someone interprets what you are saying so that the whole church will be strengthened.

26 Well, my brothers and sisters, let’s summarize. When you meet together, one will sing, another will teach, another will tell some special revelation God has given, one will speak in tongues, and another will interpret what is said. But everything that is done must strengthen all of you.

Cool...and to be honest kinda creepy. LORD have mercy when I was 17 my cousin and I went to a teen meeting with a church and after playing volleyball and having refreshments we all went down to the basement held hands and the adults started speaking in tongues...I thought they were as scary as when I watched the Exorcist.. If you speak in tongues and I don't understand you what the heck is the purpose? if only the father can understand you then do it in private.:waving no need to to be freaky to a bunch of kids.

 

[taromina2003]

Sad as it may be ,that is a very popular doctrine in the US and very common among the pentecostal groups.

I think it is a testament to our attitude being Americans, we are so blessed and unfortuantly we some how feel too superior to cetain things. I really don't know how to articulate it but I just know in my heart I am a warrior with the LORDS armor and I will fight with his words till my end and be honored to do so.

 

[Sparkey]

Cool...and to be honest kinda creepy. LORD have mercy when I was 17 my cousin and I went to a teen meeting with a church and after playing volleyball and having refreshments we all went down to the basement held hands and the adults started speaking in tongues...I thought they were as scary as when I watched the Exorcist.. If you speak in tongues and I don't understand you what the heck is the purpose? if only the father can understand you then do it in private.:waving no need to to be freaky to a bunch of kids.

The bible didn't say, "GO and freak out a bunch of kids," so you're right. But it does say, "Do not forbid speaking in tongues," so I'm glad that you make allowances. I can't imagine Peter and the 120 saying to God, "Hey! Don't send the Holy Spirit [now] -- what if some kids were freaked out about it???"

God doesn't do anything that is unlovely. People do. I'll admit straight up that you do have a point. Still, if we were to use that as our general philosophy (don't do anything that could bother a child) we might be better off as a whole.

 

[taromina2003]

The bible didn't say, "GO and freak out a bunch of kids," so you're right. But it does say, "Do not forbid speaking in tongues," so I'm glad that you make allowances. I can't imagine Peter and the 120 saying to God, "Hey! Don't send the Holy Spirit [now] -- what if some kids were freaked out about it???"

God doesn't do anything that is unlovely. People do. I'll admit straight up that you do have a point. Still, if we were to use that as our general philosophy (don't do anything that could bother a child) we might be better off as a whole.

:biglol You made me laugh! OK if we really study the word the gift of tongues bottom line is for all to understand, in fact the Holy Bible states one who speaks in tongues must have another with him to interpret otherwise what is the point?

My personal feeling: I think it's non-sense on the part of those that do it, I think it is something televangelist do to make people think they have something special and its all gibberish.

 

[Sparkey]

:biglol You made me laugh! OK if we really study the word the gift of tongues bottom line is for all to understand, in fact the Holy Bible states one who speaks in tongues must have another with him to interpret otherwise what is the point?

My personal feeling: I think it's non-sense on the part of those that do it, I think it is something televangelist do to make people think they have something special and its all gibberish.

We "both you and I" have "really studied" the word of God. The idea that you alone understand what it says might be true, but then again it might not. Kindly allow for the fact that there is some confusion on the matter.

Some believe (as you do) that there is only one thing being spoken of. That when Paul wrote to the Corinthians he was addressing "The Gift of Tongues" meaning, every single instance where believers speak to God in a Holy Ghost authored language.

Others believe that there is Scriptural evidence of tongues that isn't what they consider the operation of the more formal "Gift of Tongues". They see it as two different things. One would involve private prayer to God where the Spirit gives the utterance and the other would involve speaking out in the assembly where God is sending a message to the church.

There are many here who can help discern the differences so if there's still some confusion feel free to ask. I'm sure that others will help explain too. It might be a good idea to start a thread in the "Bible Study" area about this.

 

[Bonairos]

My personal feeling: I think it's non-sense on the part of those that do it, I think it is something televangelist do to make people think they have something special and its all gibberish.

Perhaps it doesn't make sense (hence "non-sense") to some. And perhaps there are some televangelist out for their own gain. However, but to others . . . it could very well make sense.

Nevertheless, point taken. It is your personal feelings.


Be blessed, Stay blessed!

 

[taromina2003]

Perhaps it doesn't make sense (hence "non-sense") to some. And perhaps there are some televangelist out for their own gain. However, but to others . . . it could very well make sense.

Nevertheless, point taken. It is your personal feelings.


Be blessed, Stay blessed!

Thank you and your right it is my opinion and when someone starts speaking in tongues and I get what they are saying how the heck do I know they are speakin tongues?:biglol anyway God Bless you as well.