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He Rose On Sunday True or False

Just another point about this discussion that I've wondered about several times now....

For those holding to the idea of a Wednesday crucifixion...

What would be the possible explanation for the women to not do anything with Christ's body on Friday? They certainly had a sense of urgency about anointing the body since they took off to the tomb before daylight on Sunday. Why would they hold off anointing it on Friday...would there be some kind of spiritual reason connected with Passover?


The roman soldiers were guarding it that day. Between 6 PM Thursday and 6 PM Friday is when the guard was there. There was no reason to be their during the sabbath, because it was the sabbath.

See, it all works out when you go with Wednesday to Saturday afternoon. 3 days, three nights, women buying spices after the sabbath and preparing them before the sabbath, the roman guard, rising on the 3rd day... It's the only way everything fits.

Edit: By the way, I got a question for you.... If Jesus wasn't crucified on Wednesday, what did he do that day?
 
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The roman soldiers were guarding it that day.

Ahhh... Thanks, I was wondering about that.

See, it all works out when you go with Wednesday to Saturday afternoon. 3 days, three nights, women buying spices after the sabbath and preparing them before the sabbath, the roman guard, rising on the 3rd day... It's the only way everything fits.

Well, except for the part that you're consistently misinterpreting the clear language of Mark 16:9 "Now after He had risen early on the first day of the week"

And the fact that, going by Jewish reckoning of time, we would have to include our Tuesday night (Evening of 14 Nisan) which gives us 4 nights...

...and, if he was in the grave prior to the evening of 15 Nisan and rose at almost sunset on 17 Nisan, He would be in the grave longer than three days, because again, according to Jewish interpretation of time (not to mention ours), he was in the grave on Wednesday...Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, Saturday... that's four.

As for what He did the earlier part of the week...it's hard to say which events happened on which days.
 
Well, except for the part that you're consistently misinterpreting the clear language of Mark 16:9 "Now after He had risen early on the first day of the week" .

Nope... THe reading for it is correct. None of the accounts tell when Jesus rose, only when he talked to Mary. If you believe he rose Sunday morning, then Matthew has it wrong.


[/QUOTE]
And the fact that, going by Jewish reckoning of time, we would have to include our Tuesday night (Evening of 14 Nisan) which gives us 4 nights....[/QUOTE]

No, you don't count Tuesday night. Why? Jesus was still alive Tuesday night.


[/QUOTE]...and, if he was in the grave prior to the evening of 15 Nisan and rose at almost sunset on 17 Nisan, He would be in the grave longer than three days, because again, according to Jewish interpretation of time (not to mention ours), he was in the grave on Wednesday...Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, Saturday... that's four..[/QUOTE]

It's not that difficult to understand. You don't count Wednesday He was buried late Wednesday afternoon. It was sometime between 3 and 6 PM, and more likely closer to 5 or 6 than 3 or 4. It was three days and three nights. Personally I believe that whatever time they ceiled the tomb was the exact time he rose from the dead Saturday afternoon. But I don't have scripture that it was the exact minute, only that it was Saturday afternoon.

Here's the thing: Everyone is saying "well, three days and three nights is a well known figure of speech. A small piece of a day is counted as a whole day." First off, logically that's riduculous. If God tells you to fast 3 days and three nights would you pull that logic on him? Would you say, "Lord, I'll begin my fast 5:59 PM on Friday and end my fast sometime after 6 PM Saturday. That's three days and three nights!" Do you really think that'll fly?

Second, if a Jew really does mean 3 days and 3 nights, what would he say and should we believe him?

Third and most importantly, perhaps Jesus was one of those rare individuals who really meant what he said. He told the Devil, "Man shall not live by bread alone but by EVERY word of God." He spoke of not one jot nor tittle passing.... There is absolutely no reason for me not to believe that God meant what he said.
As for what He did the earlier part of the week...it's hard to say which events happened on which days.

Simply put, Jesus was using a figure of speech. He meant what he said.
[/QUOTE]

[/QUOTE]
As for what He did the earlier part of the week...it's hard to say which events happened on which days.
[/QUOTE]

Not really. Just read what it says, and you can construct the whole week.
 
For all of you who do not believe that Jesus died on Friday and also for all of you who do not believe that He rose again on Sunday:

Do you believe that the church forgot what day Jesus Christ was crucified and that the church forgot what day He rose again from the dead and so one day far removed from the days of the actual events they simply picked out Friday and Sunday for commemoration of these two events?

This important knowledge of Friday crucifixion and Sunday resurrection has been passed down throughout the ages by the church through its yearly celebrations of these events. The church leaders did not forget from one year to the next what days they celebrated these days the year before.

Pentecost Sunday is exactly 50 days after Resurrection Sunday. Pentecost means 50th day.

Pentecost in the Christian church is celebrated as the birthday of the church.

Acts 2:1
[ Coming of the Holy Spirit ] When the Day of Pentecost had fully come, they were all with one accord in one place.

2 Thessalonians 2:15
Therefore, brethren, stand fast and hold the traditions which you were taught, whether by word or our epistle.

Well, now you are bring the Roman Catholic Church into this. I have nothing against Catholics other than a disagreance of what is the truth. But the Popes of the various eras, in which doctrine was set, weren't really that Christian. If you disagree that the "christianized" certain holidays, or if you feel it's ok that the did, then I have a problem with that. The "church" is not above erasing the Truth.
 
Go to Exod. 16 & find how God PROVED & REQUIRED the sixth day PREPARATION & then the 40 years of 7th Day Sabbath of His Sabbath keeping. (and what happened to the offenders!

The women rested while Christ's body was in the tomb on His required (STILL!) 7th day Sabbath. They PREPARED for His burial (spices) the day that He died FRIDAY. And as soon as sunset marked the day Sat. evening (while it was yet 'DARK') it was Sun. morning! They came to annoint Christ's body! Note that it was already GONE!!

Hard to understand??

John 19-20
[40] Then took they the body of Jesus, and wound it in linen clothes with the spices, as the manner of the Jews is to bury.
[41] Now in the place where he was crucified there was a garden; and in the garden a new sepulchre, wherein was never man yet laid.
[42] There laid they Jesus therefore because of the Jews' preparation day; for the sepulchre was nigh at hand.

John.20 (this is our Saterday night!)

[1] The first day of the week cometh Mary Magdalene early, [[when it was yet dark]], unto the sepulchre, and seeth the stone taken away from the sepulchre.
[2] Then she runneth, and cometh to Simon Peter, and to the other disciple, whom Jesus loved, and saith unto them, They have taken away the Lord out of the sepulchre, and we know not where they have laid him.
[3] Peter therefore went forth, and that other disciple, and came to the sepulchre.
......
[11] But Mary stood without at the sepulchre weeping: and as she wept, she stooped down, and looked into the sepulchre,
[12] And seeth two angels in white sitting, the one at the head, and the other at the feet, where the body of Jesus had lain.
[13] And they say unto her, Woman, why weepest thou? She saith unto them, Because they have taken away my Lord, and I know not where they have laid him.
[14] And when she had thus said, she turned herself back, and saw Jesus standing, and knew not that it was Jesus.

(and why?? because it was dark & she was crying! But ask yourself, when the sun set Sabbath night, what would be the first thing that you would now do?? And that IS what she did!)

[15] Jesus saith unto her, Woman, why weepest thou? whom seekest thou? She, supposing him to be the gardener, saith unto him, Sir, if thou have borne him hence, tell me where thou hast laid him, and I will take him away.
[16] Jesus saith unto her, Mary. She turned herself, and saith unto him, Rabboni; which is to say, Master.

(OK: Note this here! Christ had been in the tomb parts of the 3 days, and still had not arisen at death to the Father. That of itself will straighten out the thief stuff going right to heaven the day that he died!)

[17] Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

--Elijah
 
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Below are a range of first century years and their corresponding day of the week for Nisan 14:

26AD - Friday
27AD - Wednesday
28AD - Monday
29AD - Saturday
30AD - Wednesday
31AD - Monday
32AD - Monday
33AD - Friday
34AD - Monday
35AD - Monday
36AD - Friday
37AD - Wednesday
38AD - Monday
39AD - Friday

I hold to a Wednesday crucifixion during 30AD for a multitude of reasons.
This work -http://www.christianforums.net/showthread.php?t=35199- by Cyberseeker is really interesting, and not just because it supports my position.:)
 
Below are a range of first century years and their corresponding day of the week for Nisan 14:

26AD - Friday
27AD - Wednesday
28AD - Monday
29AD - Saturday
30AD - Wednesday
31AD - Monday
32AD - Monday
33AD - Friday
34AD - Monday
35AD - Monday
36AD - Friday
37AD - Wednesday
38AD - Monday
39AD - Friday

I hold to a Wednesday crucifixion during 30AD for a multitude of reasons.
This work -http://www.christianforums.net/showthread.php?t=35199- by Cyberseeker is really interesting, and not just because it supports my position.:)

Hey Cy.. is a good looker in his picture to, huh?:wink3 But how is he any better than the Jer. 17:5 ones?? (and 'i' am talking of his posts!)

And how does one 'judge' your scriptureless' posting here?? Do we do it with a Broadway scale of the MAJORITY??
And in Numbers 16 we see a better number even for deception!:sad Think of that! They (did) could fill a 'hole' (er'whole) big church, right?

Num. 16
[1] Now Korah, the son of Izhar, the son of Kohath, the son of Levi, and Dathan and Abiram, the sons of Eliab, and On, the son of Peleth, sons of Reuben, took men:
[2] And they rose up before Moses, with certain of the children of Israel, two hundred and fifty princes of the assembly, famous in the congregation, men of renown:
[3] And they gathered themselves together against Moses and against Aaron, and said unto them, Ye take too much upon you, seeing all the congregation are holy, every one of them, and the LORD is among them:

???well, just maybe the posting point comes across? And there is nothing personal meant on my part. And 'i' do not hold you two young'ins milk age against you!:sleep

--Elijah
 
This has been a very busy weekend, so I'm not posting much.

Sinthesis...thanks for the list...

If you don't mind and if even possible, could you also give a list of what Gregorian month days each of these dates fell in? That would be helpful background for me.
 
This has been a very busy weekend, so I'm not posting much.

Sinthesis...thanks for the list...

If you don't mind and if even possible, could you also give a list of what Gregorian month days each of these dates fell in? That would be helpful background for me.

This is the tool I use:
http://www.abdicate.net/cal.aspx
It can be a little confusing to use at first, but it seems incredibly worthwhile.
Just fill in the Jewish date - month - year, then press the 'Jewish' button and up above you will get something like:

Gregorian: April 3, 30 (ante ¹)
Julian: April 5, 30
Jewish: Nisan 14, 3790
י״ד בניסן ג׳תשצ״
SDN: 1732110.5 ²
Weekday: Wednesday

--or:

Gregorian: April 1, 33 (ante ¹)
Julian: April 3, 33
Jewish: Nisan 14, 3793
י״ד בניסן ג׳תשצ״ג
SDN: 1733204.5 ²
Weekday: Friday
But beware! If you read all the information in the footnotes of the page your head will explode.:headbomb
 
I was thinking along the same lines, JMJ...

Again, I'm not RCC, I don't view the church fathers as infalliable as God's word...but when even someone as close to the actual events as Ignatius says that Christians were "no longer observing the Sabbath, but living in the observance of the Lord’s Day, on which also our life has sprung up again by Him and by His death", how can we, 2000 years later decide that everybody got it wrong.

I do not believe that the early church made a mistake from one year to the next about the day of the week Jesus died. His death has always been commemorated on a Friday which the church called Good Friday.

Those who revision history to suit their own ideas often mislead others also.
 
Well, now you are bring the Roman Catholic Church into this. I have nothing against Catholics other than a disagreance of what is the truth. But the Popes of the various eras, in which doctrine was set, weren't really that Christian. If you disagree that the "christianized" certain holidays, or if you feel it's ok that the did, then I have a problem with that. The "church" is not above erasing the Truth.

It is your opinion that the Catholic church departed from the truth. When do you believe this departing from the truth first occurred?


Judas was chosen by Jesus Christ to be one of His apostles. Based on your reasoning about the Catholic church's departure from the faith due to the sinful behavior of some of its popes and bishops -- since Judas who was one of Christianity's earliest leaders betrayed Jesus Christ and so did not live up to the ideals of the Christian faith, shouldn't you have concluded from his actions that the Christian faith is a false faith and should therefore be avoided and/or abandoned?

Since the Christian Scriptures point out that Peter, the Rock of Christianity, denied Jesus Christ three times, shouldn't you abandon Christianity as your religion of choice based on your reasoning that some Catholic church leaders did not live up to the ideals of Christianity and so therefore Christianity is a false faith and should not be practiced?

I believe that Jesus Christ is the head of His body, especially His church's leaders, and that He promised to keep His Church from error always and so He does, regardless of the holiness of His church's leaders. If He did not keep His church free from error since the very beginning as He promised to do, then He is a liar and none of us should believe in Him.



What pagan feasts do you think were Christianized? How do you know for sure that God did not orchestrate events to happen for the Christian church in the same exact time period that the pagans were celebrating their feasts in order to help prevent the Christian believers from returning to their pagan roots and feasts?
 
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I don't know about you, but when I put all the scriptures together, the only time frame that can satisfy them all is three full nights, two full days, plus one partial day. Any scheme that has the Lord reviving after the completion of a third day, puts him reviving on a fourth day; which of course is not only unworkable, but also totally unacceptable.

Cliff
/

Then again if you consider Him reviving at the exact time of three days and three nights, that fulfills this scripture...

Mat 12:40 For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

And we must have gone to different schools since you believe that 12 hours of day and then there is night equals just the dark portion of the day...

John 11:9 Jesus answered, Are there not twelve hours in the day? If any man walk in the day, he stumbleth not, because he seeth the light of this world.
10 But if a man walk in the night, he stumbleth, because there is no light in him.

Christ here plainly says that the daylight portion is 12 hours and then there is night, I suspect that He understood there are 24 hours in a complete day, the dark and light portions.

Col 1:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether [they be] thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

This kinda tells me He knows more about an evening and a morning than you do.
 
It is your opinion that the Catholic church departed from the truth. When do you believe this departing from the truth first occurred?


Judas was chosen by Jesus Christ to be one of His apostles. Based on your reasoning about the Catholic church's departure from the faith due to the sinful behavior of some of its popes and bishops -- since Judas who was one of Christianity's earliest leaders betrayed Jesus Christ and so did not live up to the ideals of the Christian faith, shouldn't you have concluded from his actions that the Christian faith is a false faith and should therefore be avoided and/or abandoned?

Since the Christian Scriptures point out that Peter, the Rock of Christianity, denied Jesus Christ three times, shouldn't you abandon Christianity as your religion of choice based on your reasoning that some Catholic church leaders did not live up to the ideals of Christianity and so therefore Christianity is a false faith and should not be practiced?

I believe that Jesus Christ is the head of His body, especially His church's leaders, and that He promised to keep His Church from error always and so He does, regardless of the holiness of His church's leaders. If He did not keep His church free from error since the very beginning as He promised to do, then He is a liar and none of us should believe in Him.



What pagan feasts do you think were Christianized? How do you know for sure that God did not orchestrate events to happen for the Christian church in the same exact time period that the pagans were celebrating their feasts in order to help prevent the Christian believers from returning to their pagan roots and feasts?

This is going Catholic?? In Christ OWN WORDS He Documents in Josh. 7:12 that HE WILL NOT BE [[IN]] ANY CHURCH LIVING IN OPEN SIN! And verse one has ALL OF ISRAEL INCLUDED.

Josh. 7

'.. neither will I be with you any more, [[[except ye destroy the accursed from among you.]]]'

SO: We find the whore + her daughters in Rev. 17:1-5 documented today as 'c'hristless!:sad

And the 7th Day Sabbath keepers are not any of these first day sun ones. Rev. 12:17 have these documented as...

[17] And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

So the gates of hell will actually NOT PREVALE against His 'small Remnant'!:thumbsup

And all of the rest?? Christ has them 'truely OPENLY' seen documented daily in the world news today as 'THE ABOMINATION OF THE EARTH'. **Matt. 10:26-27 (from mom on down to all of her daughters which mostly keep the false sun day. Eze. 8:16-17 even finds them 'putting the brance to their nose.')

--Elijah
 
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.
Then again if you consider Him reviving at the exact time of three days and three nights, that fulfills this scripture
That won't work because there is never a moment when it isn't day or night. In other words; at the moment a day ends, a night begins, and at the moment a night ends, a day begins; viz: the cross-over is simultaneous.


Take for instance the moment of sunrise. At that precise instant nighttime ends and daytime begins. So then, if your theory has Christ reviving at the end of three full days and three full nights, then you have him reviving on a fourth day; which is over-budget.


And we must have gone to different schools since you believe that 12 hours of day and then there is night equals just the dark portion of the day
I was merely using John 11:9 to point out that "day" back then indicated the presence of illumination; as opposed to "night" indicating the absence of illumination.



I suspect that He understood there are 24 hours in a complete day, the dark and light portions.
Christ didn't live by a 24-hour clock. The Jews' first hour of civil day began six hours after midnight. Twelve hours later, their civil day ended and the first hour of their civil night began. In my experience; it is very common for Bible students to blunder the chronology of crucifixion week simply by thinking in terms of the earth's revolutions instead of thinking in primitive terms of physical day and night; viz: in terms of daytime and nighttime.



He knows more about an evening and a morning than you do.
I am confident that as long as I continue to accept the Bible's definitions of evening and morning; then I will continue to know as much and/or as little about evening and morning as the cosmos' creator wants me to know about evening and morning.


Cliff
/
 
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This is going Catholic?? In Christ OWN WORDS He Documents in Josh. 7:12 that HE WILL NOT BE [[IN]] ANY CHURCH LIVING IN OPEN SIN! And verse one has ALL OF ISRAEL INCLUDED.

Josh. 7

'.. neither will I be with you any more, [[[except ye destroy the accursed from among you.]]]'

SO: We find the whore + her daughters in Rev. 17:1-5 documented today as 'c'hristless!:sad

And the 7th Day Sabbath keepers are not any of these first day sun ones. Rev. 12:17 have these documented as...

[17] And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

So the gates of hell will actually NOT PREVALE against His 'small Remnant'!:thumbsup

And all of the rest?? Christ has them 'truely OPENLY' seen documented daily in the world news today as 'THE ABOMINATION OF THE EARTH'. **Matt. 10:26-27 (from mom on down to all of her daughters which mostly keep the false sun day. Eze. 8:16-17 even finds them 'putting the brance to their nose.')

--Elijah

Jesus teaches us to love our enemies in the New Testament/Covenant. We hope and pray these sinful enemies will repent before they die.

Matthew 13:24-30 NKJV
The Parable of the Wheat and the Tares
24 Another parable He put forth to them, saying: “The kingdom of heaven is like a man who sowed good seed in his field; 25 but while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat and went his way. 26 But when the grain had sprouted and produced a crop, then the tares also appeared. 27 So the servants of the owner came and said to him, ‘Sir, did you not sow good seed in your field? How then does it have tares?’ 28 He said to them, ‘An enemy has done this.’ The servants said to him, ‘Do you want us then to go and gather them up?’ 29 But he said, ‘No, lest while you gather up the tares you also uproot the wheat with them. 30 Let both grow together until the harvest, and at the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, “First gather together the tares and bind them in bundles to burn them, but gather the wheat into my barn.”’

Acts 20:30
Even from your own number men will arise and distort the truth in order to draw away disciples after them.

Jude 1:4
For certain individuals whose condemnation was written about long ago have secretly slipped in among you. They are ungodly people, who pervert the grace of our God into a license for immorality and deny Jesus Christ our only Sovereign and Lord.

2 Peter 3:9 NKJV
9 The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance.


I do not think that NT Scripture backs up your theory.

The Book of Revelation shows us that the Israelites (the people) and their city Jerusalem are the harlot/prostitute and confirms what is written about her in Judges.

Judges 2:17 NIV
Yet they would not listen to their judges but prostituted themselves to other gods and worshiped them. They quickly turned from the ways of their ancestors, who had been obedient to the LORD’s commands.

Judges 8:27 NIV
Gideon made the gold into an ephod, which he placed in Ophrah, his town. All Israel prostituted themselves by worshiping it there, and it became a snare to Gideon and his family.

2 Chronicles 21:13 NIV
But you have followed the ways of the kings of Israel, and you have led Judah and the people of Jerusalem to prostitute themselves, just as the house of Ahab did. You have also murdered your own brothers, members of your own family, men who were better than you.


Ezekiel 16:1-16 NKJV
God’s Love for Jerusalem

16 Again the word of the Lord came to me, saying, 2 “Son of man, cause Jerusalem to know her abominations, 3 and say, ‘Thus says the Lord God to Jerusalem: “Your birth and your nativity are from the land of Canaan; your father was an Amorite and your mother a Hittite. 4 As for your nativity, on the day you were born your navel cord was not cut, nor were you washed in water to cleanse you; you were not rubbed with salt nor wrapped in swaddling cloths. 5 No eye pitied you, to do any of these things for you, to have compassion on you; but you were thrown out into the open field, when you yourself were loathed on the day you were born.

6 “And when I passed by you and saw you struggling in your own blood, I said to you in your blood, ‘Live!’ Yes, I said to you in your blood, ‘Live!’ 7 I made you thrive like a plant in the field; and you grew, matured, and became very beautiful. Your breasts were formed, your hair grew, but you were naked and bare.

8 “When I passed by you again and looked upon you, indeed your time was the time of love; so I spread My wing over you and covered your nakedness. Yes, I swore an oath to you and entered into a covenant with you, and you became Mine,” says the Lord God.

9 “Then I washed you in water; yes, I thoroughly washed off your blood, and I anointed you with oil. 10 I clothed you in embroidered cloth and gave you sandals of badger skin; I clothed you with fine linen and covered you with silk. 11 I adorned you with ornaments, put bracelets on your wrists, and a chain on your neck. 12 And I put a jewel in your nose, earrings in your ears, and a beautiful crown on your head. 13 Thus you were adorned with gold and silver, and your clothing was of fine linen, silk, and embroidered cloth. You ate pastry of fine flour, honey, and oil. You were exceedingly beautiful, and succeeded to royalty. 14 Your fame went out among the nations because of your beauty, for it was perfect through My splendor which I had bestowed on you,” says the Lord God.

Jerusalem’s Harlotry

15 “But you trusted in your own beauty, played the harlot because of your fame, and poured out your harlotry on everyone passing by who would have it. 16 You took some of your garments and adorned multicolored high places for yourself, and played the harlot on them. Such things should not happen, nor be.



The harlotry/prostitution (unfaithfulness) of Jerusalem's Israelite/Jewish citizens to God's commandments and the killing of her prophets and her Messiah is the reason it and its temple were destroyed in 70 A.D. Jerusalem is the woman riding the beast in the Book of Revelation.
 
The roman soldiers were guarding it that day. Between 6 PM Thursday and 6 PM Friday is when the guard was there. There was no reason to be their during the sabbath, because it was the sabbath.

See, it all works out when you go with Wednesday to Saturday afternoon. 3 days, three nights, women buying spices after the sabbath and preparing them before the sabbath, the roman guard, rising on the 3rd day... It's the only way everything fits.

Notice from all the replies (the sheer number of them, not reading them) that it will take revelation for many if they are to know the truth. They simply cannot believe they have been duped for so long.
 
The Baptist church that is in my area has worship service on Saturday and Sunday. If I go to both of them will I be "ok" with the Lord (in regards to the Sabbath)?
 
The Baptist church that is in my area has worship service on Saturday and Sunday. If I go to both of them will I be "ok" with the Lord (in regards to the Sabbath)?

The Sabbath isn't just about going to church on a particular day. There are 6 commandments in the Torah regarding the Sabbath.

  1. Rest
  2. Don't work
  3. Don't light a fire
  4. Don't cook
  5. Hold a holy convocation (ie "go to church")
  6. Don't travel outside the camp
Fellowship with other believers is part of the Sabbath, but not the only part. But even if you apply all 6 commandments to both days, you're still not "ok with the Lord", unless you are doing it for the right reason.

The TOG​
 
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