He Rose On Sunday True or False

[Fedusenko]

Not to be a broken record... your are still missing a night.

Just work backwards. (reckoned with Gregorian calendar and days but taking to account how God appointed days) He rose on the Sunday, but before daylight (early Sunday or late Saturday night. That is your third night. Saturday is your third day. Friday night is your 2nd night with friday being your 2nd day. Thursday night is your first night with Thursday being the day He died.

I am not sure if Jews use the Lunar calendar as appointed by God for the feasts or if they still use the calculated calendar (I think it is the calculated calendar that is still in use), but Passover very easily could have happened on Friday, Sabbath, and then Sunday followed. That is what makes the most logical sense to me. It is laid out very well in the link I provided earlier (it is worth the time watching). In the video they use simulations provided by NASA (used to pilot satilites) to track the moon's cycles in accordance to the barely abib to the month of passover.

The Thursday Crucifixion makes logical sense given the data provided by the bible and the calculation confirms it (if the calculation was done correctly). I am interested in thoughts about this.

 

[handy]

Just work backwards. (reckoned with Gregorian calendar and days but taking to account how God appointed days) He rose on the Sunday, but before daylight (early Sunday or late Saturday night. That is your third night. Saturday is your third day. Friday night is your 2nd night with friday being your 2nd day. Thursday night is your first night with Thursday being the day He died.

I think trying to "reckon with Gregorian calendar and days but taking to account how God appointed days" is at the heart of all the confusion in this matter. It's arbitrary and really shouldn't be done... Sort of a "square peg - round hole" thing.

Why would Matthew, Mark, Luke or John be "reckoning with the Gregorian calendar" at all? Answer, they didn't of course. Their markings of the timeline of events would be under the night/day reckoning of time.

We need to apply the Hebrew system of timekeeping here and no other.

So, working backwards and using the Hebrew and only the Hebrew method of marking time we have and taking into consideration that according to Jewish reckoning a "day" is considered a day, even if only part of the day is being covered):

This is working backwards:
First day= Resurrection Day = daylight hours starting at 6:00 am = Sign of Jonah's Third day
First day= Resurrection Day = nighttime hours between 6:00 pm and 6:00am = Sign of Jonah's Third night.

Seventh Day= Sabbath Day = daylight hours =Sign of Jonah's Second Day
Seventh Day= Sabbath Day = nighttime hours =Sign of Jonah's Second Night

Sixth Day= Day of Preparation/Crucifixion = daylight hours =Sign of Jonah's First Day
Sixth Day= Day of Preparation/Crucifixion = nighttime hours =Sign of Jonah's First Night

I think what confuses us so is not only do we mark 24 hour days from Midnight to Midnight, we also tend to think of a day as daytime first coming first in a day and nighttime second.

This is exactly opposite of the Jewish mindset which thinks of nighttime first, daytime second. We are just so attuned to our cultural habit of thinking of today and tonight, rather than today began last night.

 

[Sinthesis]

Jesus died on Friday, the Preparation Day for the Sabbath, and He rose again on Sunday the first day of the week.

We know that Jesus was crucified on Preparation Day, which is always Nisan 14. However, Nisan 14 is not always a Friday, so you also have to specify the correct year. The year I believe all this took place, for a multitude of reasons, mandates a Wednesday Crucifixion.

 

[handy]

We know that Jesus was crucified on Preparation Day, which is always Nisan 14. However, Nisan 14 is not always a Friday, so you also have to specify the correct year. The year I believe all this took place, for a multitude of reasons, mandates a Wednesday Crucifixion.

I don't see how we can get a Wednesday crucifixion and still maintain a 3 day period in the grave. He died in the 9th hour, our 3:00 pm. That's Wednesday, all of Thursday, all of Friday, all of Saturday...3.5 days.

Keep in mind many Scriptures relate that He rose on the third day, not after it. We also know that the third day was also the first day of the week, our Sunday. For Him to have been crucified on Wednesday means that He would have risen on Saturday (the third day), but the Sabbath is the 7th day, not the first.

 

[Slider]

I don't see how we can get a Wednesday crucifixion and still maintain a 3 day period in the grave. He died in the 9th hour, our 3:00 pm. That's Wednesday, all of Thursday, all of Friday, all of Saturday...3.5 days.

Keep in mind many Scriptures relate that He rose on the third day, not after it. We also know that the third day was also the first day of the week, our Sunday. For Him to have been crucified on Wednesday means that He would have risen on Saturday (the third day), but the Sabbath is the 7th day, not the first.

Nope... He rose on Saturday. You just keep running with the "we know he rose on Sunday" while ignoring that Mark 16:9 is talking about when Jesus talked to Mary, NOT when he rose.

 

[Elijah674]

I don't think that the Sabbath was the only "test" regarding the Hebrew's willingness to keep the Lord's commandments. Even James, whom you quote here, doesn't mention the Sabbath in connection with keeping the whole of the Law.

Exod. 16
[4] Then said the LORD unto Moses, Behold, I will rain bread from heaven for you; and the people shall go out and gather a certain rate every day, that I may prove them, whether they will walk in my law, or no.

.....
[26] Six days ye shall gather it; but on the seventh day, which is the sabbath, in it there shall be none.
[27] And it came to pass, that there went out some of the people on the seventh day for to gather, and they found none.

[28] And the LORD said unto Moses, How long refuse ye to keep my commandments and my laws?

Note that in verse 4 that God tested them on just this one Commandment 7 th Day Sabbath Commsandment, and in the above verse we see as in James 2:10, that they were all included here.

One more observation is seen in verse 35 just before they were to enter their land of Canaan. As seen in the prophesied repeat of Eccl. 1:9-10 + Eccl. 3:15 and doubled as seen in Gen. 41:32's last part of the verse, this will be the FINAL TEST (of 666) as we prepare to go into 'our' land of Canaan. (as I see it;))

--Elijah

 

[handy]

Gar.... this reminds me of driving in Ireland and constantly wanting to drift back over to the right side of the road, this constant urge to name the days....

Mark 16:9
Now when Jesus was risen early the first day of the week, KJV
Now after He had risen early on the first day of the week, ...NASB
Now when He arose early on the first day of the week, New Geneva

The three best translations I know... each one showing that Jesus arose early on the first day of the week... not the Sabbath day.

You know, Slider, we might have a bit of a coming together of the minds here... For the purposes of this discussion, when I've said "Sunday", I don't mean our Sunday that last's from midnight to midnight... I'm referring to the Jewish "first day" which lasted from Saturday night to Sunday night. All that is the "first day".... but not the Sabbath day.

So, if you are going to say that He arose (our) Saturday night... after 6:00pm, after the Sabbath was over... OK. I can accept that, because it would indeed be the first day of the week. I'm not going to quibble over the 6 hour difference between the Jewish start of the day and our start of the day.

 

[Fedusenko]

Handy, I may have spoken poorly. We are regarding things in the same way as evident from your post.
I would make one slight revision to your hypothesis. Move the last ~12 hour period forward making the final period the Jewish Sunday night. Mary arrived before daylight on the first day of the week but the Messiah was already gone. This allows for His death to happen on the Jewish Thursday during daylight hours before the High Sabbath set in on the Jewish Friday night. This satisfies the 3 days and nights of Jonah's sign.

Thursday (Crucifixion) - Frinight (High Sabbath) - Friday (High Sabbath) - Saturnight (Weekly Sabbath) - Saturday (Weekly Sabbath) - Sunnight (Resurrection)

 

[Fedusenko]

We know that Jesus was crucified on Preparation Day, which is always Nisan 14.

I thought Nissan 14 was passover and the 13th was Preparation day. Am I wrong?

 

[JMJ]

We know that Jesus was crucified on Preparation Day, which is always Nisan 14. However, Nisan 14 is not always a Friday, so you also have to specify the correct year. The year I believe all this took place, for a multitude of reasons, mandates a Wednesday Crucifixion.

So, you are saying that this Sabbath day that they were preparing for was not necessarily on Saturday, the sixth day of the week?

 

[JMJ]

Nope... He rose on Saturday. You just keep running with the "we know he rose on Sunday" while ignoring that Mark 16:9 is talking about when Jesus talked to Mary, NOT when he rose.

Mark 16:9
[ Mary Magdalene Sees the Risen Lord ] Now when He rose early on the first day of the week, He appeared first to Mary Magdalene, out of whom He had cast seven demons.

What day did Jesus Christ rise from the dead? Mark clearly states that He rose early on the first day of the week.

After He rose from the dead early on the first day of the week, He then appeared to Mary Magdalene.

 

[JMJ]

For all of you who do not believe that Jesus died on Friday and also for all of you who do not believe that He rose again on Sunday:

Do you believe that the church forgot what day Jesus Christ was crucified and that the church forgot what day He rose again from the dead and so one day far removed from the days of the actual events they simply picked out Friday and Sunday for commemoration of these two events?

This important knowledge of Friday crucifixion and Sunday resurrection has been passed down throughout the ages by the church through its yearly celebrations of these events. The church leaders did not forget from one year to the next what days they celebrated these days the year before.

Pentecost Sunday is exactly 50 days after Resurrection Sunday. Pentecost means 50th day.

Pentecost in the Christian church is celebrated as the birthday of the church.

Acts 2:1
[ Coming of the Holy Spirit ] When the Day of Pentecost had fully come, they were all with one accord in one place.

2 Thessalonians 2:15
Therefore, brethren, stand fast and hold the traditions which you were taught, whether by word or our epistle.

 

[handy]

Handy, I may have spoken poorly. We are regarding things in the same way as evident from your post.
I would make one slight revision to your hypothesis. Move the last ~12 hour period forward making the final period the Jewish Sunday night. Mary arrived before daylight on the first day of the week but the Messiah was already gone. This allows for His death to happen on the Jewish Thursday during daylight hours before the High Sabbath set in on the Jewish Friday night. This satisfies the 3 days and nights of Jonah's sign.

Thursday (Crucifixion) - Frinight (High Sabbath) - Friday (High Sabbath) - Saturnight (Weekly Sabbath) - Saturday (Weekly Sabbath) - Sunnight (Resurrection)

I think within the Jewish mindset though, had this been the timeline, Christ would have said four days, not 3. Remember, if an event happens during any part of a day, to the Jew, it encompasses the whole day. I truly think most contemporaries of Jesus would look at this time-line and think four days, not three.

Jesus said, "Destroy this temple and in three days I will raise it up." So we know that He set a three day time limit for everything. The days are reckoned from sundown to sundown, and any event that takes place on a day is reckoned as taking place on the full day.

The Sign of Jonah puts a spin on it in that we need to have not only three days, but three days and three nights. Trying to reconcile this with our Gregorian method of keeping time and western mindset is impossible, because we tend to think of "day" as a 24 hour time period, and we don't think of Thursday night as being a part of Friday.

If Sinthesis, or anyone else, can show that the Nisan 14 Jesus was crucified was not Friday that year, then we must look at a different day. But, barring a clear reason to believe that Nisan 14 fell on a different day than Friday the year Jesus died, I don't understand why we simply cannot follow Jewish recognition of time and set the sixth day as the crucifixion and the first day as the resurrection.

 

[handy]

For all of you who do not believe that Jesus died on Friday and also for all of you who do not believe that He rose again on Sunday:

Do you believe that the church forgot what day Jesus Christ was crucified and that the church forgot what day He rose again from the dead and so one day far removed from the days of the actual events they simply picked out Friday and Sunday for commemoration of these two events?

This important knowledge of Friday crucifixion and Sunday resurrection has been passed down throughout the ages by the church through its yearly celebrations of these events. The church leaders did not forget from one year to the next what days they celebrated these days the year before.

Pentecost Sunday is exactly 50 days after Resurrection Sunday. Pentecost means 50th day.

Pentecost in the Christian church is celebrated as the birthday of the church.

Acts 2:1
[ Coming of the Holy Spirit ] When the Day of Pentecost had fully come, they were all with one accord in one place.

2 Thessalonians 2:15
Therefore, brethren, stand fast and hold the traditions which you were taught, whether by word or our epistle.

I was thinking along the same lines, JMJ...

Again, I'm not RCC, I don't view the church fathers as infalliable as God's word...but when even someone as close to the actual events as Ignatius says that Christians were "no longer observing the Sabbath, but living in the observance of the Lord’s Day, on which also our life has sprung up again by Him and by His death", how can we, 2000 years later decide that everybody got it wrong.

 

[Sinthesis]

I thought Nissan 14 was passover and the 13th was Preparation day. Am I wrong?

So, you are saying that this Sabbath day that they were preparing for was not necessarily on Saturday, the sixth day of the week?

Preparation Day in the Passover context is the 14th of Nisan. On this date the Lamb is slain 'between the two evenings', meaning daylight, and then consumed before midnight the evening of the 15th of Nisan (where for any given Jewish date evening comes before morning). The 15th of Nisan is a 'High' Sabbath regardless the day of the week. So with a Wednesday crucifixion both Thursday(15th) and Saturday(17th) are Sabbaths. The 16th of Nisan begins the Counting of the Omer, which is a counting of the 49 days between Passover and Shavuot. So with a Wednesday crucifixion Sunday is announced as the 'third day' until Shavuot(the 50th day), our Pentecost.

I originally accepted a Friday crucifixion and would do so again if I didn't now know better. I also originally accepted that the last supper was a passover seder. Just like heliocentricsm versus geocentrism, these are not salvational issues. Yet when you get a glimpse of how the timing of the truth was prophesied centuries before to Daniel it is awesome. Prophesy is for Believers.

 

[handy]

Preparation Day in the Passover context is the 14th of Nisan. On this date the Lamb is slain 'between the two evenings', meaning daylight, and then consumed before midnight the evening of the 15th of Nisan (where for any given Jewish date evening comes before morning). The 15th of Nisan is a 'High' Sabbath regardless the day of the week. So with a Wednesday crucifixion both Thursday(15th) and Saturday(17th) are Sabbaths. The 16th of Nisan begins the Counting of the Omer, which is a counting of the 49 days between Passover and Shavuot. So with a Wednesday crucifixion Sunday is announced as the 'third day' until Shavuot(the 50th day), our Pentecost.

I originally accepted a Friday crucifixion and would do so again if I didn't now know better. I also originally accepted that the last supper was a passover seder. Just like heliocentricsm versus geocentrism, these are not salvational issues. Yet when you get a glimpse of how the timing of the truth was prophesied centuries before to Daniel it is awesome. Prophesy is for Believers.

Sinthesis, I don't doubt what you're saying here for a moment... but how do we know that on the particular year Christ died, the 14th of Nisan fell on Wednesday? As a matter of fact, how do we know the particular year Christ died?

Also, how does the 4th day through the 1st day become 3 days? Using a Wednesday calculation we have
4th day 14 Nisan
5th day 15 Nisan
6th day 16 Nisan Day 1 Counting of Omer
7th day 17 Nisan Day 2 Counting of Omer
1st day 18 Nisan Day 3 Counting of Omer

Even if we don't count the night hours of 14 Nisan and the day hours of 18 Nisan, we still have 4 days and 4 nights, contrary to the sign of Jonah.


Added: I don't believe these are salvational issues either, and it matters not to me if folks observe Passover and Sabbaths or Good Friday, Easter and the Lord's Day.

I do find it all fascinating and am learning a lot in this conversation.

 

[Elijah674]

Sinthesis, I don't doubt what you're saying here for a moment... but how do we know that on the particular year Christ died, the 14th of Nisan fell on Wednesday? As a matter of fact, how do we know the particular year Christ died?

Also, how does the 4th day through the 1st day become 3 days? Using a Wednesday calculation we have
4th day 14 Nisan
5th day 15 Nisan
6th day 16 Nisan Day 1 Counting of Omer
7th day 17 Nisan Day 2 Counting of Omer
1st day 18 Nisan Day 3 Counting of Omer

Even if we don't count the night hours of 14 Nisan and the day hours of 18 Nisan, we still have 4 days and 4 nights, contrary to the sign of Jonah.


Added: I don't believe these are salvational issues either, and it matters not to me if folks observe Passover and Sabbaths or Good Friday, Easter and the Lord's Day.

I do find it all fascinating and am learning a lot in this conversation.

Hi, this site has a good read on this subject....

Michael Scheifler's BIBLE LIGHT HOMEPAGE

--Elijah

 

[handy]

Elijah,

You're right, as a matter of fact, that was a great read! (What can I say, he made every point I've been making, so of course I think it was great! )

I was interested in his point about the word "paraskeue" which he stated was never used for any other purpose than what we would consider Friday... in other words the day of preparation for the 7th day Sabbath. I checked that out and there really isn't a solid biblical case to be made for this, because each time the word is used in the Scriptures, it's referring to the very day we are discussing here, the day that Christ was crucified. I did a lot of googling of the term and found that, while a lot of scholars agree that it's a word to describe the preparation for the Sabbath day, and it is the modern Greek word for Friday ... most concordances and specific bible commentaries state the word is used for the day of preparation for the Sabbath or a feast.

 

[handy]

Just another point about this discussion that I've wondered about several times now....

For those holding to the idea of a Wednesday crucifixion...

What would be the possible explanation for the women to not do anything with Christ's body on Friday? They certainly had a sense of urgency about anointing the body since they took off to the tomb before daylight on Sunday. Why would they hold off anointing it on Friday...would there be some kind of spiritual reason connected with Passover?

 

[Elijah674]

Elijah,

You're right, as a matter of fact, that was a great read! (What can I say, he made every point I've been making, so of course I think it was great! )

I was interested in his point about the word "paraskeue" which he stated was never used for any other purpose than what we would consider Friday... in other words the day of preparation for the 7th day Sabbath. I checked that out and there really isn't a solid biblical case to be made for this, because each time the word is used in the Scriptures, it's referring to the very day we are discussing here, the day that Christ was crucified. I did a lot of googling of the term and found that, while a lot of scholars agree that it's a word to describe the preparation for the Sabbath day, and it is the modern Greek word for Friday ... most concordances and specific bible commentaries state the word is used for the day of preparation for the Sabbath or a feast.

The day Christ was in the tomb was the day of rest to, huh?;)

I liked the one on the God Head as well. (but that is another thread here)

--Elijah