He Rose On Sunday True or False

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[Webers_Home]

do you happen to have any material that shows back to back Sabbath days... stretching from sundown Friday through sundown Saturday?

Sundown Friday to sundown Saturday is only one sabbath.

I went back through the calendar for 50 years and found several Passovers on Thursday, several on Saturday, and several on Sunday, but none on Friday; which causes me to suspect that Judaism has been deliberately manipulating their religious calendar in order to prevent Passover falling on a Friday. Duh. No surprise there.

Anyway, Passovers falling on a Sunday are good examples of back-to-back sabbaths; e.g. 2008, 2001, and 1994, et al.

Cliff
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[handy]

That's really interesting Cliff...

How do the Jew's figure out when to celebrate the Passover Sabbath? It would be interesting, if they have a set way of doing it, to try to determine if there were any Friday Sabbaths during the time of the crucifixion.

 

[handy]

Fedusenko

Com'on. There must be more to it than that.

FC

I asked the same question FC. My personal vote for the best answer was this:

For the question. Because God REQUIRES HIS DAY to be the day of HIS WORSHIP.
With your [post question] one could liken it to Cain & his offering, saying Lord, (even in person) what difference does it make if I offer this fruite offering? And that is what sun worship is.

Best answer in the sense that it sums up why some believe it's very important. I also know that someone has mentioned that Sunday worship is the mark of the beast. Obviously, I don't view it this way...but I respect why, to some, this is a more vital issue.

 

[Fedusenko]

In the end, what really matters is what God said. So Elijah wins this round, but my answer has a bit more substance than what is on the surface. We know that he rose on Sunday because it is stated. That isn't the controversy. The issue is whether or not he died on a Friday, Thursday, or as one accounts, a Wednesday. If He didn't die on a Friday then it exposes a man made tradition to fallibility. Some would say that its what is in our hearts that matters, and while that is true, it also matters what our minds do as well as our hands. Anyways, I don't know why we celebrate the Messiahs Resurrection on Easter instead of the Sunday (if you are partial to Sundays) after Passover. That seems more appropriate.

 

[Sinthesis]

Unfortunately I perceive that this idea that Jesus rose on the sabbath rather than the first day of the week has more to do with sabbaterianism than anything else.

Of course it is also terribly ironic in that had Jesus rose on the sabbath, then for Him it would not have actually been a day of rest.

Nevertheless, a Wednesday crucifixion is correct, as can be shown through evidence in both the old and new testaments. Yet this historic fact in no way undermines the spiritual teachings of the Catholic Church any more than our celebration of Christmas every December 25th is an exercise in the pagan worship of false gods. A Christian's eternal security does not exist in proper date fixing, either forward or backward in time.

This particular graphic provided by Lewis W is correct, except for when Jesus rose and when the empty tomb was discovered.

​

These two errors are the product of:

• a reliance on an aberrant interpretation of Matt 28:1 that is in conflict with the majority of bible translations of said verse, as well as the testimony of the other three gospels

• the eisegesisical insistence on exactly 72hrs in the grave

How do we rectify the scriptural need for Jesus to rise on a first day which is also a third day? Given a Wednesday crucifixion, the first day of the week is also the third day of what?

Riddle: When is the first day also the third day?
Answer: When the first day of the week (Sunday) is also the third day of the Counting of the Omer!:eeeekkk

Go read up on Passover, Counting of the Omer, and Shavuot.

 

[handy]

Unfortunately I perceive that this idea that Jesus rose on the sabbath rather than the first day of the week has more to do with sabbaterianism than anything else.

I agree... and I think we can add a smattering of anti-Catholic bias.

These two errors are the product of:

• a reliance on an aberrant interpretation of Matt 28:1 that is in conflict with the majority of bible translations of said verse, as well as the testimony of the other three gospels

• the eisegesisical insistence on exactly 72hrs in the grave

Again, I agree.

I'm not sure why we need change the day of the crucifixion from Friday.

I think everyone is in agreement that the Jewish Day (which God set...Elijah) begins at sundown through to sundown. Night time/day time = 1 day.

And, most all of us agree that according to Jewish reckoning, a day need not be a full 24 hours, an event occurring during any part of that day, fixes the "day". Which is why there is no need to hold to a 72 hour time frame. Jesus can rise sometime on Sunday and still, in the understanding of the contemporary mind-set would be three nights and three days in the ground.

So, if Jesus can spend only part of Sunday in the ground, and yet we can call that a "day"... why not spend only part of Friday in the ground and not count Thursday night?

I'm pretty certain Jesus' contemporaries would understand the "sign of Jonah" in this fashion:

night/day=5th Day Event: Jesus' crucifixion. Sign of Jonah, one night and one day
night/day=6th Day Event: Sabbath. Sign of Jonah, one night and one day
night/day=7th Day Event: Resurrection Sign of Jonah, one night and one day

Seems to over complicate the matter to look at it any other way.

 

[Webers_Home]

.

I think everyone is in agreement that the Jewish Day (which God set...Elijah) begins at sundown through to sundown. Night time/day time = 1 day.

I am not in agreement. According to Gen 1:3-5, Gen 1:14-16, and John 11:9-10; day is when the sun is up, and night is when the sun is down. In other words: when the sun goes down, a night begins. Days don't begin till morning.

Mixing and mashing days and nights is precisely what throws people's minds into oscillating vapor lock when they try to sleuth the chronology of crucifixion week. If we would but let night be nighttime, and day be daytime; the chronology becomes child's play to figure out.

So, if Jesus can spend only part of Sunday in the ground, and yet we can call that a "day"... why not spend only part of Friday in the ground and not count Thursday night?

There isn't enough nights between Friday afternoon and Sunday morning.

Cliff
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[Webers_Home]

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How do the Jew's figure out when to celebrate the Passover Sabbath?

The procedure looks really complicated to me. Below is the URL to a site that tries to explain it. Good luck.

http://quasar.as.utexas.edu/BillInfo/ReligiousCalendars.html

Cliff
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[handy]

Hmmm, not sure that you're looking at Genesis the right way...

Genesis 1:5b ... And there was evening and there was morning, one day.
v8b...And there was evening and there was morning, a second day.
v13 ..There was evening and there was morning, a third day.
v19 ...There was evening and there was morning, a fourth day.
v23 ...There was evening and there was morning, a fifth day.
v31b...And there was evening and there was morning, the sixth day.
and as was mentioned before, there is no time limit on the Sabbath.

As for John 11, yes, there are 12 hours in during the day time... but I'm not sure that this means that we need jettison the fairly well established fact that Jewish reckoning of a day was from sundown to sundown.

I'm a little confused now, Cliff. You've already said that "Sundown Friday to sundown Saturday is only one sabbath." Is seems as though you're counting "sundown to sundown" for the Sabbath but not any other day of the week?

 

[handy]

.
The procedure looks really complicated to me. Below is the URL to a site that tries to explain it. Good luck.

http://quasar.as.utexas.edu/BillInfo/ReligiousCalendars.html

Cliff
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Ygads! Higher math was never my strong point! :eeeekkk

 

[Webers_Home]

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Hmmm, not sure that you're looking at Genesis the right way _ Genesis 1:5b ... And there was evening and there was morning, one day. v8b...And there was evening and there was morning, a second day. v13 ..There was evening and there was morning, a third day. v19 ...There was evening and there was morning, a fourth day. v23 ...There was evening and there was morning, a fifth day. v31b...And there was evening and there was morning, the sixth day.

Chronologically, an evening and a morning, as per common usage, boundary a night rather than a day.

However, if we permit ourselves the liberty of assigning "morning" to indicate the daylight hours between sunrise and high noon, and assign "evening" to indicate the daylight hours between high noon and sundown; then we have a Day in perfect accordance with the Bible's own definitions of Day and Night at Gen 1:3-5, Gen 1:14-16, and John 11:9.

Note: good luck finding a specific Hebrew word in the Old Testament for "afternoon"

Cliff
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[JMJ]

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I wonder how many Bible students have ever noticed that the seventh day isn't bounded by an evening and a morning? Curious isn't it.

Cliff
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Good point!

 

[JMJ]

I've been re-reading parts of this very long thread...

...and one thing I hadn't really taken note of before is how some have fixed themselves on a "72 hour" time frame, as if the Bible states that Jesus was in the grave for 72 hours.

Nowhere in the Bible is the term 72 hours used. Jesus said that He would be in the grave for three days and three nights. Elsewhere, Jesus said that He would rise on the third day. The fact that He was going to rise on the third day (not the beginning of the forth) means that we automatically have something less than 72 hours to work with.

We also know that Jesus rose early on the third day. So, the 72 hours is shortened even more so.

I think if some let go of the erroneous idea that Jesus said, "I will be in the ground for 72 hours" instead of saying what He actually said which was"

“An evil and adulterous generation craves for a sign; and yet no sign will be given to it but the sign of Jonah the prophet; for just as JONAH WAS THREE DAYS AND THREE NIGHTS IN THE BELLY OF THE SEA MONSTER, so will the Son of Man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth."

Since Jesus arose on the third day, and early... sometime before dawn...we must understand that Jesus was using the "sign of Jonah" as a metaphor. It's always a mistake to take metaphors literally... which is at the heart of some of the theories put forth here.

 

[JMJ]

Just out of curiosity, when do the days begin? Sunset not midnight. Surely you are well read enough to know this without having to quote verses.

The harvest of the Wave Sheaf was carried out by the priest and done right at sunset between the Sabbath and the first day of the week that fell within the Days of Unleavened Bread. This ceremony depicted the resurrection of Jesus from the dead and then the waving of the offering the morning of the first day of the week depicted Christ's ascension to Heaven presenting Himself as the sacrifice for all mankind.

The names and numbers of the days of the week do not change until 12:00 a.m., correct? If Jesus Christ rose from the dead on the sixth day of the week, Mark would have stated this as fact instead of what he did state (first day).

 

[JMJ]

Ok, that is true, but she could not have prepared the spices before the Sabbath. How is she going to buy them after the sabbath and prepare them before the sabbath?

Luk 23:56
And they returned, and prepared spices and ointments; and rested the sabbath day according to the commandment.

Thank you for your Scripture quote. Now, we know for sure that they bought the spices and ointments before the Sabbath began on Friday evening.

Scripture also tells us that Jesus died on Preparation Day and this day is Friday before the Sabbath begins at sunset and so it is true that Jesus died on Friday instead of on any other day of the week.

Luke 23:42-56 (NKJV)
42 Then he said to Jesus, “Lord, remember me when You come into Your kingdom.†43 And Jesus said to him, “Assuredly, I say to you, today you will be with Me in Paradise.â€

Jesus Dies on the Cross

44 Now it was about the sixth hour, and there was darkness over all the earth until the ninth hour. 45 Then the sun was darkened, and the veil of the temple was torn in two. 46 And when Jesus had cried out with a loud voice, He said, “Father, ‘into Your hands I commit My spirit.’†Having said this, He breathed His last.

47 So when the centurion saw what had happened, he glorified God, saying, “Certainly this was a righteous Man!â€

48 And the whole crowd who came together to that sight, seeing what had been done, beat their breasts and returned. 49 But all His acquaintances, and the women who followed Him from Galilee, stood at a distance, watching these things.

Jesus Buried in Joseph’s Tomb

50 Now behold, there was a man named Joseph, a council member, a good and just man. 51 He had not consented to their decision and deed. He was from Arimathea, a city of the Jews, who himself was also waiting for the kingdom of God. 52 This man went to Pilate and asked for the body of Jesus. 53 Then he took it down, wrapped it in linen, and laid it in a tomb that was hewn out of the rock, where no one had ever lain before. 54 That day was the Preparation, and the Sabbath drew near.

55 And the women who had come with Him from Galilee followed after, and they observed the tomb and how His body was laid. 56 Then they returned and prepared spices and fragrant oils. And they rested on the Sabbath according to the commandment.



John 19:30-34 (NKJV)
30 So when Jesus had received the sour wine, He said, “It is finished!†And bowing His head, He gave up His spirit.

Jesus’ Side Is Pierced

31 Therefore, because it was the Preparation Day, that the bodies should not remain on the cross on the Sabbath (for that Sabbath was a high day), the Jews asked Pilate that their legs might be broken, and that they might be taken away. 32 Then the soldiers came and broke the legs of the first and of the other who was crucified with Him. 33 But when they came to Jesus and saw that He was already dead, they did not break His legs. 34 But one of the soldiers pierced His side with a spear, and immediately blood and water came out..

Jesus died on the day of Preparation for the Sabbath which is Friday before the Sabbath began at sunset on this day.

The Jews were required to finish their Sabbath preparations before the Sabbath celebration began at sunset on Friday.

So, it is clearly shown in Scripture that Jesus died on the afternoon of the day of Preparation for the Sabbath which was Friday afternoon before the Sabbath began at sunset on Friday. He rose early in the morning on Sunday, the first day of the week.

The statement about the three days and three nights is an attention-getting device which was used to correlate two events; the story of Jonah's stay in the belly of the fish which prefigured Jesus Christ's stay in the heart of the earth.

Jesus died on Friday, the Preparation Day for the Sabbath, and He rose again on Sunday the first day of the week.

 

[handy]

The names and numbers of the days of the week do not change until 12:00 a.m., correct? If Jesus Christ rose from the dead on the sixth day of the week, Mark would have stated this as fact instead of what he did state (first day).

I'm not sure this is correct, JMJ or not. Most of the resource material I have on this subject is that the numbers of the days changed at sundown. I don't have any resource material that speaks of particular names for the days... just numbers, the Sabbath being the 7th day. However, it seems as though they started "day time" at 6:00 am, hence the "third hour" spoken in Mark 15:25 would be our 9:00 am.

However, you're quite correct that if Jesus rose from the dead on the sixth day of the week, our Friday, Mark would have said, "sixth day" not "first day".

Cliff, I do agree that "morning" was sunrise to noon and "evening" was noon to sundown. However, I think that is how the accounting of "daytime" was segmented. I tried to find how the night hours were segmented and couldn't. The closest thing I came up with is "watch" and that wasn't even in the New Testament. The 24 hour period, seems to have always been reckoned as the nighttime hours coming first and the daytime hours second. Genesis certainly records it that way and we also know that the Sabbath Day began on Friday after sundown.

 

[JMJ]

The Lord's Day was chosen by Jesus Christ. It is His own day which is Sunday the first day of the week. He chose it Himself when He rose from the dead on that day. It celebrates the fact that we will all rise from the dead (our physical mortal bodies will be restored to us and given immortality) when He returns at His Second Coming/Appearing.

John had his revelation visions on the LORD'S DAY which was Sunday the first day of the week:

Revelation 1:9-11 (NKJV)
I, John, both your brother and companion in the tribulation and kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was on the island that is called Patmos for the word of God and for the testimony of Jesus Christ. 10 I was in the Spirit on the Lord’s Day, and I heard behind me a loud voice, as of a trumpet, 11 saying, “I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last,†and, “What you see, write in a book and send it to the seven churches which are in Asia: to Ephesus, to Smyrna, to Pergamos, to Thyatira, to Sardis, to Philadelphia, and to Laodicea.â€

Do not confuse the Lord's Day with the Day of the Lord. The day of the Lord specifically denotes the Day of Judgment which is also the same day as His Second Appearing/Coming.

2 Timothy 4:8 (NKJV)
Finally, there is laid up for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous Judge, will give to me on that Day, and not to me only but also to all who have loved His appearing.

2 Peter 3:10 (NKJV)
[ The Day of the Lord ] But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night, in which the heavens will pass away with a great noise, and the elements will melt with fervent heat; both the earth and the works that are in it will be burned up.


The reason that Paul asked that his mission collection be collected on the first day of the week instead of when he was present with them is because that is when all the Christian people were gathered together for their weekly worship service.

1 Corinthians 16:1-3 (NKJV)
Collection for the Saints
16 Now concerning the collection for the saints, as I have given orders to the churches of Galatia, so you must do also: 2 On the first day of the week let each one of you lay something aside, storing up as he may prosper, that there be no collections when I come. 3 And when I come, whomever you approve by your letters I will send to bear your gift to Jerusalem.

Paul did not want his precious time partially used waiting for a collection to be taken up by those in attendance when he preached. It was a practical matter to have the special mission collections taken up when the Christians had their weekly worship services on the first day of the week (Sunday).

 

[Elijah674]

Whatever??
But, the ones of Rev. 17:1-5 have for well past any 120 Gen. 6:3 Striving's + Noah's Preaching been fighting for this day, so what is one of the ten Commands being Broken done for them?? James 2:10 + Exod. 16:27's REFUSEAL TO KEEP MY COMMANDMENTS, and tested on only the 7th Day Sabbath of the Lord God.

 

[handy]

James 2:10 + Exod. 16:27's REFUSEAL TO KEEP MY COMMANDMENTS, and tested on only the 7th Day Sabbath of the Lord God.

I don't think that the Sabbath was the only "test" regarding the Hebrew's willingness to keep the Lord's commandments. Even James, whom you quote here, doesn't mention the Sabbath in connection with keeping the whole of the Law.