Hebrew language.....TX for the OP TOG

[reba]

goodness i hope no on the edge of meeting the Lord folks are reading this silly battle...
God sent mankind out from the tower of babel with different languages .... Not speaking old Hebrew ( if that is the correct term) does not imply one does not know the Lord in a personal way...
Sifting through the bickering makes learning more difficult ...

 

[jasonc]

goodness i hope no on the edge of meeting the Lord folks are reading this silly battle...
God sent mankind out from the tower of babel with different languages .... Not speaking old Hebrew ( if that is the correct term) does not imply one dose not know the Lord in a personal way...
Sifting through the bickering makes learning more difficult ...

like I have said before. whenever I study the Name of GOD the more I thought I know, I realized that I didn't know. if we want to know god, be like Jesus.

 

[jasonc]

inquiring of the Heshem with a gentile mind and wanting a jewish answer.

 

[Stan1953]

Why are you being derogatory toward others? Maybe you don't mean to be, but you are. You transliterate it the way you do because you speak English. If you go back over my posts, both in this thread and others, you will see that I transliterate it the same why when I'm writing in English. But when I'm writing in a language where J is pronounced like the Y in "yes", and there isn't even any W in the alphabet, then I transliterate it as JHVH. That's a perfectly legitimate transliteration. But you have basically been saying that everyone who doesn't have English as their native language is wrong. English is not the only proper language and the way things are done in English isn't the only proper way to do those things. There isn't only one proper way. In fact, there isn't even only one proper way to transliterate God's name in English. We don't know for certain how His name was pronounced by the ancient Hebrews. The vav may have been pronounced like a V. I even heard one man say that some ancient manuscripts (unfortunately I don't remember which ones) say that God's name consisted of 4 vowels. That could have meant a number of combinations, with the vav either as O or U and the heys as either E or A. There are many possibilities. If you are absolutely convinced that YHWH is correct, then use that, but don't tell everybody else that they are wrong and yours is the only correct way. Others also have reasons for the way they do it and , until we find something that tells us with absolute certainty how it was pronounced, we don't know which is correct.

Please don't deflect back on me.
We are dealing in English. If you want to deal in another language then please do so and make your point.
What you point out is the reason why we have JHVH because of the German language. Still doesn't make it right.
I posted links for all to see. I think this issue is really finished. The majority of scholars do know and unless you can demonstrate why they aren't or that you have any credentials in this regard, I see no reason in arguing with you.

 

[Stan1953]

If I were to witness again to a JW, I wouldn't be arguing with them about something that I cannot prove in the scriptures. No one knows for sure about the vav, waw, including the Jews themselves and there isn't any scripture that speaks to that issue.
Prayer and the pure gospel message of the cross.
Did you investigate any of the links I gave you?

Well most of them won't respond to this issue at all except to quote from the Watchtower Society. They're not what I call free thinkers. Now Unis on the other hand will, but the biggest discussions I have had in this regard is with KJVO people.
Yes I have read those links before and I like Chabad.org. Most of those sites deal with current conditions with some historical context.

 

[Stan1953]

inquiring of the Heshem with a gentile mind and wanting a jewish answer.

Well I'm NOT a Jew but here is some good info.

http://www.betemunah.org/hashem.html

 

[jasonc]

Well I'm NOT a Jew but here is some good info.

http://www.betemunah.org/hashem.html

I haven't seen her, In a long time. she is fluent enough in Hebrew that I will take her word for it. I also know that chassidics(which she was raised in) use the YHWH. most Hebrews that aren't in isreal cant speak modern Hebrew unless they kept the temple usage up. I know that my family does speak it. I have seen them bicker in Yiddish and Hebrew on fb. my dad has forgotten his native tounge.

 

[Deborah13]

It's interesting that TOG should mention that names and the way they are spelled can mean something in languages and that's true in Hebrew as well. I found something today when checking out 'vav'.
Deborah in Hebrew is pronounced with a 'v' sound not a 'b' sound, as far as everything I know. I wasn't using Deborah but Debby when I was young, to bad because I would have heard it from those same Jewish couples years ago.
Anyway, I looked at Deborah in Judges and found it strange that there would be 5 Hebrew letters used when there is only 4 consonants. There were two 'v' letters, both the 'vet' and the 'vav'. Why would that be, then I got this thought to check out Deborah the nurse to Rebekah in Genesis 35:8. Whoa, only one 'v', the 'vet'.

Genesis 35
8 And Deborah Rebekah's nurse died, and she was buried below Beth-el under the oak; and the name of it was called Allon-bacuth.
ח וַתָּמָת דְּבֹרָה מֵינֶקֶת רִבְקָה, וַתִּקָּבֵר מִתַּחַת לְבֵית-אֵל תַּחַת הָאַלּוֹן; וַיִּקְרָא שְׁמוֹ, אַלּוֹן בָּכוּת. {פ}

Judges 4:4
4 Now Deborah, a prophetess, the wife of Lappidoth, she judged Israel at that time.
ד וּדְבוֹרָה אִשָּׁה נְבִיאָה, אֵשֶׁת לַפִּידוֹת--הִיא שֹׁפְטָה אֶת-יִשְׂרָאֵל, בָּעֵת הַהִיא.

Deborah - Dalet Vet Reysh Hei (or Hey)
Deborah - Dalet Vet Vav Reysh Hei

Does anyone have any suggestions why this would be?

http://www.mechon-mamre.org/p/pt/pt0704.htm

So getting back to this post about the difference in the way the name Deborah is spelled in the OT scriptures.
I had a thought about why this would be.

The nurse Deborah, spelled with the 'vet' only was just that a nurse, a servant if you will.

But Deborah, spelled with both the 'vet' and the 'vav' says something different about this woman. She was a prophetess and a judge as well as a servant of the Lord's.

The 'vav' is the picture of the tent peg, nail, or hook.
In the scripture below it doesn't look like a hook because it is written in the cursive form.

Genesis 1:1
א בְּרֵאשִׁית, בָּרָא אֱלֹהִים, אֵת הַשָּׁמַיִם, וְאֵת הָאָרֶץ.
1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

The 'vav' connects the heaven and the earth. The spiritual to the earthly.

Below is the 'vav' in the word transliterated as the hooks that were used to bind the tabernacle curtains to the pillars.

Exodus 27:10
י וְעַמֻּדָיו עֶשְׂרִים, וְאַדְנֵיהֶם עֶשְׂרִים נְחֹשֶׁת; וָוֵי הָעַמֻּדִים וַחֲשֻׁקֵיהֶם, כָּסֶף.
10 And the pillars thereof shall be twenty, and their sockets twenty, of brass; the hooks of the pillars and their fillets shall be of silver.

The 'vav' in script is the 'yud' that looks rather like an apostrophe extended downward. The 'yud' being pictured as a fist or a hand. So the 'vav' is rather like the hand of God coming down.

So I think the 'vav' being in the judge and prophetess' name shows that she was the connection from God to the people for those 40 yrs..

 

[Stan1953]

Sadly, Stan is not in the Bible, but my other two names are...Joseph and Peter.

All my kids have Biblical names, as do my daughter's kids. My son's have not gone in that direction but two of the three are young...they still have time