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Hell Fire

Deborah13 said:
Hell Fire
Hell Fire

tob, back in post 26 I asked you a question and you responded with a question.

That was a very bold statement. I can't imagine there is anything that can make the cross of no effect. So what were you really saying? Are you saying that the cross would have no effect for anyone, If annihilation is true? A simple yes or no answer would be appreciated. Thanks
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Actually, the Bible says that trying to justify ourselves through wisdom by going back to the law makes the cross of no effect in our life. 1 Corinthians 1:17
 
Willie T said:
Actually, the Bible says that trying to justify ourselves through wisdom by going back to the law makes the cross of no effect in our life. 1 Corinthians 1:17
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There are things that can make it of no effect in our own lives. But I wondering about tob's post about annihilation.
What does he mean?
Hell Fire
 
turnorburn said:
Drinking wine doesn't produce this effect Timothy..

Luke 22:44 And being in an agony he prayed more earnestly: and his sweat was as it were great drops of blood falling down to the ground.

tob

This is the reason you don't understand maybe that 9 year old in Texas is the only one that did..
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It is Christ's Blood in the cup of the New Covenant that justifies me. Who is it that condemns me?
 
TimothyW said:
I am not bound by any doctrine. If you have proof that the wicked go to hell when they die where they will tormented alive forever while they are dead, simply present your proof and if the proof is solid, I will believe your doctrine.
.
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View attachment 4659

I'm beginning to believe it's possible to survive Hell bodily. At least for a little while:)
 
No Timothy it wasn't it wouldn't produce this reaction.. no one could drink what was in that cup save Jesus Christ himself

Luke 22:44 And being in an agony he prayed more earnestly: and his sweat was as it were great drops of blood falling down to the ground.

tob
 
i think everyone of us should read this chapter at least once a week..

Isaiah 53:1 Who hath believed our report? and to whom is the arm of the LORD revealed?

2 For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground: he hath no form nor comeliness; and when we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him.

3 He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not.

4 Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.

5 But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.

6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.

7 He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth.

8 He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken.

9 And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death; because he had done no violence, neither was any deceit in his mouth.

10 Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.

11 He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.

12 Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.

tob
 
turnorburn said:
No Timothy it wasn't it wouldn't produce this reaction.. no one could drink what was in that cup save Jesus Christ himself

Luke 22:44 And being in an agony he prayed more earnestly: and his sweat was as it were great drops of blood falling down to the ground.

tob
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Yet....................................... Mark 10 says...
38 Jesus said, “You don’t realize what you’re asking. Can you drink the cup that I’m going to drink? Can you be baptized with the baptism that I’m going to receive?”
39 “We can,” they told him.
Jesus told them, “You will drink the cup that I’m going to drink. You will be baptized with the baptism that I’m going to receive.
 
turnorburn said:
No Timothy it wasn't it wouldn't produce this reaction.. no one could drink what was in that cup save Jesus Christ himself

Luke 22:44 And being in an agony he prayed more earnestly: and his sweat was as it were great drops of blood falling down to the ground.

tob
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No Tob, it was not poison in the Lord's Cup.

And he took a cup, and when he had given thanks he gave it to them, saying, “Drink of it, all of you, for this is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins. I tell you I will not drink again of this fruit of the vine until that day when I drink it new with you in my Father’s kingdom.”
Matthew 26:27-29

Here are a few points for you to consider.
1. There was wine in the cup, because the Lord said "I will not drink again of this fruit of the vine". The fruit of the vine are grapes. The drink we get from grapes is wine.
2. The wine represents the Lord's Blood, because the Lord said "for this is my blood".
3. We are all to drink it, and the apostles also drank it, because the Lord gave the cup to His disciples and said "Drink of it, all of you".

We are able to drink from the Lord's Cup and we are invited to do so.
 
i just read your post Willie that's the wrong cup as well.. This Cup ..

Matthew 26:39 And he went a little further, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt.

tob
 
turnorburn said:
i just read your post Willie that's the wrong cup as well.. This Cup ..

Matthew 26:39 And he went a little further, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt.

tob
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A cup full of something called, "wilt"? That seems to be all you said.

I hope you have a better answer than that one.
 
I think it is obvious that since the disciples were going to share this cup with Jesus, it has to be the persecution and abuse, and even eventual death that He suffered for the promise of the resurrection.
 
turnorburn said:
Wrong cup Timothy..

tob
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Okay, you asked what what in the cup of Christ. You were not specific. When most people ask about the cup of Christ, they mean the cup at the last supper.
Let's look at the cup in Matthew 26:39
And going a little farther he fell on his face and prayed, saying, “My Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me; nevertheless, not as I will, but as you will.”

That cup represents Christ's persecution, the crucifixion that he was about to endure, the death on the cross.
I'm not sure what you are getting at. Does this somehow prove to you that the wages of sin is not death as the Bible says, but eternal conscious torment instead?

This seems to be getting off topic.
 
allenwynne said:
Revelation 20: 15: NIV

"Anyone whose name was not found in the Book of Life was thrown into the lake of fire".

Sounds horrible, doesn't it?
I certainly don't want to go there.
But really, what is it?
Does it really burn?
How?
Why are we told it is a lake of fire?
What's the purpose behind it all?
Does the Bible tell us?
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Allen,

If we read Rev 20:14-15 (NIV) it helps to give us a larger picture:
'14 Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death. 15 Anyone whose name was not found written in the book of life was thrown into the lake of fire'.​

Verse 14 reinforces the view that the lake of fire is not something to be taken literally, but is symbolical. Death and Hades are here personified and provide the picture of being thrown into the lake of fire with the beast, false prophet and the devil (see v. 10).

So it is impossible to arrive at a literal understanding and John seems to be confirming that death and the grave will be completely destroyed.

In v. 14, the statement of 'the lake of fire is the second death' anticipates what is stated in v. 15. It does not seem in v. 14 that John, the Revelator, is talking about the death of Death (that wouldn't make sense), but he moves to the destruction of death and the judgment of the dead, based on whether their names were in the book (v. 13).

Those who have died are judged, not by works but by what was written in the book of life (v. 12, 15). Is his/her name in that book? If our names are not in that book, we are thrown into what is represented by the symbolical lake of fire. However, the language, 'lake of fire', even though not literal, is surely conveying in stark symbol form what a horrible experience it will be after the final judgment for all enemies of God's righteousness.

Even though it is symbolical language, 'the lake of fire' surely conveys the horrible experience of everlasting punishment for all unbelievers after the final judgement. This is like the Jewish term, Gehenna, e.g. Matt 10:28 (ESV) .

Oz
 
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OzSpen said:
Allen,

If we read Rev 20:14-15 (NIV) it helps to give us a larger picture:
'14 Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death. 15 Anyone whose name was not found written in the book of life was thrown into the lake of fire'.​

Verse 14 reinforces the view that the lake of fire is not something to be taken literally, but is symbolical. Death and Hades are here personified and provide the picture of being thrown into the lake of fire with the beast, false prophet and the devil (see v. 10).

So it is impossible to arrive at a literal understanding and John seems to be confirming that death and the grave will be completely destroyed.

In v. 14, the statement of 'the lake of fire is the second death' anticipates what is stated in v. 15. It does not seem in v. 14 that John, the Revelator, is talking about the death of Death (that wouldn't make sense), but he moves to the destruction of death and the judgment of the dead, based on what they had done (v. 13).

Those who have died are judged, not by works but by what was written in the book of life (v. 12, 15). Is his/her name in that book? If our names are not in that book, we are thrown into the symbolical lake of fire. However, the language, 'lake of fire', even though not literal, is surely conveying in stark symbol form what a horrible experience it will be after the final judgment for all enemies of God's righteousness through Christ.

Even though it is symbolical language, 'the lake of fire' sure conveys the horrible experience of everlasting punishment for all unbelievers after the final judgement. This is like the Jewish term, Gehenna, e.g. Matt 10:28 (ESV) .

Oz
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Thanks Oz, I'll study this.
 
turnorburn said:
I'm amazed that a 9 year old girl in Texas is the only one that knew what was in that cup.. simply amazed!

tob
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Not so amazing. The Lord often reveals Truth to children.

What's 'amazing' is you don't recognize the contradiction in your use of His cup which He drank to His death, not His ECT, so that those who believe in His death do not have to die a second death in Hell's fire. He conquered what was in the cup, BTW, and commanded us (and His disciples that night) to remember it every time we commune with Him.

Maybe she's not yet been taught otherwise.
 
turnorburn said:
Drinking wine doesn't produce this effect Timothy..

Luke 22:44 And being in an agony he prayed more earnestly: and his sweat was as it were great drops of blood falling down to the ground.

tob

This is the reason you don't understand maybe that 9 year old in Texas is the only one that did..
Click to expand...

He sweat and cried because that was him in the garden of Gethsemane, he knew what all was about to happen and it did trouble him, he prayed and asked his father not to let it happen, but if it be his will then it is Jesus will.
 
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