Hell

[Oats]

I've been reading a lot about hell...what are your thoughts?

How literal do you take it?

 

[Pard]

Hell is just as real and everlasting as Heaven. Hell is a place of great pain and burning and torment and shame and contempt. Unlike in our earthly prisons (where many people lay the blame for their being there on another), in Hell EVERYONE will know that justice dictates they must be there.

I think we should have a healthy respect for Hell. It is not the place run by the devil, like the cartoons like to show. Hell is paramount because it balances the Law.

 

[coffeeelover]

Hell is just as real and everlasting as Heaven. Hell is a place of great pain and burning and torment and shame and contempt. Unlike in our earthly prisons (where many people lay the blame for their being there on another), in Hell EVERYONE will know that justice dictates they must be there.

I think we should have a healthy respect for Hell. It is not the place run by the devil, like the cartoons like to show. Hell is paramount because it balances the Law.

I don't think there is a place of eternal torment and suffering. Doesn't seem like a punishment a loving God would doll out. God is greater than I than I am to my dog. I know that I wouldn't punish my dog with eternal suffering and anguish because it didn't follow my orders perfectly. So just doesn't have the ring of truth to it.

 

[Michae1]

The outer darkness. A fiery furnace. Gnashing of teeth. No presence of God at all.

I believe what the Bible says about it. It is probably such a horrible place that it is hard to describe or interpret.

I hope that God would destroy those souls instead of letting them suffer, but there is no scriptural support for that.

Let His will be done. If that is the way God says it will be, then I accept that is the way it will be.

 

[rstrats]

I just don’t understand why people want to believe that the fate of the unsaved is to spend eternity in conscious torment when there is no clear scripture to support that belief. I don’t understand why they try to read into scripture something that makes the loving supreme being of the Bible into a heartless monster. I simply do not understand what there is that makes them want to do that when there is no need to. Why do they want to believe that a loving supreme being will horribly torture a person for eternity because during their fleeting few years of life they didn’t satisfy certain requirements? I just don’t understand why they wouldn’t rather believe that a loving supreme being will wipe the person mercifully out of existence because for some reason they didn’t or couldn’t meet these requirements and didn’t develop or have the potential to develop the right character needed to spend eternity with this supreme being.

 

[jasoncran]

jesus spoke more about hell then heaven!

 

[lovely]

God is known by the judgement He executes...

Psalm 9

11 Sing praises to the LORD, which dwelleth in Zion: declare among the people his doings.
12 When he maketh inquisition for blood, he remembereth them: he forgetteth not the cry of the humble.
13 Have mercy upon me, O LORD; consider my trouble which I suffer of them that hate me, thou that liftest me up from the gates of death:
14 That I may shew forth all thy praise in the gates of the daughter of Zion: I will rejoice in thy salvation.
15 The heathen are sunk down in the pit that they made: in the net which they hid is their own foot taken.
16 The LORD is known by the judgment which he executeth: the wicked is snared in the work of his own hands. Higgaion. Selah.
17 The wicked shall be turned into hell, and all the nations that forget God. 18 For the needy shall not alway be forgotten: the expectation of the poor shall not perish for ever.
19 Arise, O LORD; let not man prevail: let the heathen be judged in thy sight. 20 Put them in fear, O LORD: that the nations may know themselves to be but men. Selah.

 

[Pard]

Justice can only be done when you love. The just answer to living a life of sin is eternal damnation. God doesn't just *poof* you away, that would not be JUST, that would be easy. Life isn't easy and God isn't easy. You freely accept a life of sin and you must freely accept the consequences for sinning.

A loving parent justly punishes their child for the wrongs that child does, they do not care if the child "likes" them, because they LOVE the child. A parent who does not punish a child justly does so because they would rather be liked, than loved. God doesn't want you to like Him, He wants you to love Him.

Someone is going to say, "I will not love a Being who sends me to Hell." But you are wrong, for all those who will be in Hell not only know they are experiencing the just punishment, but they will finally come to love God. This is why God is not present in Hell, it is part of the punishment they will receive for sinning.

 

[Michae1]

Jack says it better than I do.

The word from which we get “Hell†is Hades in Greek and Sheol in Hebrew. It’s the place where all dead people went before the cross because until the Lord’s blood was shed no one could get into Heaven. Many Christians confuse this place with the place of eternal torment to which unbelievers will be sent.
...
The place of eternal judgment is called the Lake of Fire in some places and the Outer Darkness in others

God is just and righteous, so He couldn’t over look man’s sins. A penalty had to be paid. But He’s also merciful and loving, so He gave His own life to pay for our sins so we wouldn’t have to die because of them. Man couldn’t help sinning, but now he could choose to accept God’s pardon to avoid the death penalty. Now the only ones who have to die are those who reject the pardon.

But also remember that God, and only God, knows what is in peoples hearts. That, and the fact that He knows everything else to take into consideration, is what I think He will use at Judgment.

And no I am not plugging another website. He is my Bible teacher and I just wanted to make sure I quoted the source properly.

:peace

 

[Oats]

Yeah It must e hard to spend an eternity....but God give them and us what we want...In the end

His will be done

 

[ProphetMark]

The outer darkness. A fiery furnace.

How can it be both though? How can a fiery furnace be dark? Which is it?

 

[Pard]

How can it be both though? How can a fiery furnace be dark? Which is it?

Not all flames have color or give off light. Go light a propane grill... You will get some blue but that is not the propane, but the chemicals added to it. Many flammable gases do not give off a visible flame. We can only see a tiny little part of the color spectrum.

 

[tig]

Justice can only be done when you love. The just answer to living a life of sin is eternal damnation. God doesn't just *poof* you away, that would not be JUST, that would be easy. Life isn't easy and God isn't easy. You freely accept a life of sin and you must freely accept the consequences for sinning.

A loving parent justly punishes their child for the wrongs that child does, they do not care if the child "likes" them, because they LOVE the child. A parent who does not punish a child justly does so because they would rather be liked, than loved. God doesn't want you to like Him, He wants you to love Him.

Someone is going to say, "I will not love a Being who sends me to Hell." But you are wrong, for all those who will be in Hell not only know they are experiencing the just punishment, but they will finally come to love God. This is why God is not present in Hell, it is part of the punishment they will receive for sinning.

So....you are saying that the "just" punishment for sins committed in the temporary world is "eternal" punishment? And that because God dishes out eternal punishment for temporary sins, we will love him for that? Dude, that mentality is twisted and perverted. But....let me guess, you get a free pass into heaven because you recited a magic prayer? You really need to read the bible for yourself instead of listening to those who make a profit off what they teach you.

Hell is what is experienced here on this earth when a person trust in something they have done to make themselves accepted by God. John the Baptist said, I baptize you with water, but the one coming after me, whose latch of his shoes I am unworthy to undo, he will baptize you with the spirit and with fire. That "fire" that Jesus baptizes with is hell, but it is a spiritual concept, not physical. And everyone must be salted with fire (mk 9:49). It's the way we are instructed, it is what brings us into the "spirit". All our selfish works are burned up, but we ourselves are saved, yet so as by this fire.

Is hell real? Yes. Is it what was always taught us by those who profit from what they teach? No. Hell is being on the outside of the truth, in darkness, where we gnash our teeth because we love and believe a lie.

The truth? The living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially those who believe (1 tim 4:10). That's the truth, though those who receive wages of men will tell you different.

 

[Pard]

Your understanding of Mark 9:49 is all wrong. Go reread that entire section. Verse 49 is talking testing everyone (saved and unsaved) with trials of fire.

No, I am not saying that the just punishment for sinning is eternal damnation... God is!

You are adding "fire" to your interpretation of Mark 1:8, because John never said fire, he only said "Holy Spirit"

 

[Cheyenne K]

Well given that Jesus spoke more on Hell than Heaven, to deny the reality of Hell would basically be calling Jesus a liar. If Jesus is a liar, then Christianity's entire basis is false. If not deny Jesus, but rather his apostles, then what authority does the Bible have? Without its authority, why bother believe in any of its writings, including Jesus?

29And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.

30And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.

- Matthew 5:29-30


28And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

- Matthew 10:28


Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?

- Matthew 23:33


22And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;

23And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.

24And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.

- Luke 16:22-24


By these verses, I think it is pretty obvious that there is a Hell. Just because we would rather not think about it, doesn't detract from the reality. I can't say, "There is no such thing as pain, because pain is bad, and I don't want to believe in it." and then there will be no pain. No, pain will still be there, but I am just bathing in self-imposed ignorance.
Now, why would an all-loving God send people there? Easy. God is not “allâ€-loving. He loves all of His creation, but not their sin. He hates and abhors sin. This is stated in the Bible and also works out logically. You can’t love something and then still love it’s opposite. One cannot say, “I love puppies!†then say, “I love when people abuse puppies!â€
And why should we question His judgment? God has done so much for us to try and save us, yet there are still those who deny Him. With His Word, the sacrifice of His only begotten Son, and His people, one cannot say that when God does express His judgment that it is unfair. He has done everything short of imposing upon our free will to save us. For what kind of love is it if it is not of our own volition? What God would force us to worship Him? He will warn us until the very last moment, and thus we cannot blame Him for the consequences of our sin and lack of repentance when He has done so much to try and steer us in the opposite direction of such. We cannot blame Him for eternal death and punishment when He has done so much to try and turn all of us to eternal life. Imagine yourself in his shoes. You have had to deal with a bunch of thankless, faithless people for years. You give your only Son to suffer pain and torment for these people. You suffer for them. Then they blame you for suffering, mock you, and say that your judgment upon them is not fair? As a person, I would want to know what more they want. But I am not God. And God is more patient than any human. Yet, this does not detract from the reality of Hell.

 

[tig]

Your understanding of Mark 9:49 is all wrong. Go reread that entire section. Verse 49 is talking testing everyone (saved and unsaved) with trials of fire.

No, I am not saying that the just punishment for sinning is eternal damnation... God is!

You are adding "fire" to your interpretation of Mark 1:8, because John never said fire, he only said "Holy Spirit"

Yes, I know that Mark 9:49 is speaking of testing everyone with trials of fire. That is the hell, or fire, that JC baptized with.

Actually, God said the punishment for sin is death, as in: the soul that sinneth, it shall die. Or as in: the sting of sin is death, and the strength of sin is the law (good thing is, the thought doesn't stop there, it goes on to say "but").

And...I did not interprete Mark 1:8 wrong, though just because Mark did not mention fire does not mean JC didn't say fire. As you pointed our in a different thread, all authors don't include the exact same facts, though it does not mean the scriptures contradict, just that the same facts are not pointed out over and over.

Here is the passage I had in mind when I said John said Jesus will baptize with the spirit and with fire:

Luke 3:16 John answered, saying unto them all, I indeed baptize you with water; but one mightier than I cometh, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to unloose: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost and with fire:

Jesus did talk alot about hell, and if you read the passages, they all seem to be something that mankind goes through here on this earth in this life because they believe the lie instead of the truth. What is the lie? Same as it has always been, that the knowledge of good and evil will not kill you, but will make you like God.

What is the truth, that God promised eternal life before the world began. And just as the promise made to Abraham by God was not made void by a law that came some 430 years later, neither is the promise of eternal life made void by this temporary existence here on earth. JC himself is the record that God has given to us eternal life. Now, if you do not believe that record, you're calling God himself a liar.

 

[Pard]

Here is the passage I had in mind when I said John said Jesus will baptize with the spirit and with fire:

Luke 3:16 John answered, saying unto them all, I indeed baptize you with water; but one mightier than I cometh, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to unloose: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost and with fire:

Haha! Thank you, I was wondering what passage you used, I just figured Mark because a) that is what you used for another verse and b) I knew the Mark one off the top of my head. Sorry about that, and thank you for the verse you used.

Now, I have a lot of topics going on and I am embarrassed to say that I am not even too sure what we are arguing about! If you would be so kind as to remind me I'd love to continue our dialogue

 

[Elvispelvis]

If there is a hell and you burn for eternity how did you get eternal life ?

Come let us reason together says the LORD.

If only the saints are given immortality as a reward, then it is foolish to say that the wicked are burned in hell
for eternity.

Hell is another fable handed down through the ages.

 

[Free]

Jack says it better than I do.

But also remember that God, and only God, knows what is in peoples hearts. That, and the fact that He knows everything else to take into consideration, is what I think He will use at Judgment.

And no I am not plugging another website. He is my Bible teacher and I just wanted to make sure I quoted the source properly.

:peace

But Jack's answer is incomplete. There are three words used for "hell" in the NT--hades, gehenna, and tartaroo. Which one is used in a given verse significantly changes the meaning of what is being said.

The two which get confused are hades and gehenna and it's unfortunate that so many translations make the mistake of translating all three words as "hell."

Hell is what is experienced here on this earth when a person trust in something they have done to make themselves accepted by God. John the Baptist said, I baptize you with water, but the one coming after me, whose latch of his shoes I am unworthy to undo, he will baptize you with the spirit and with fire. That "fire" that Jesus baptizes with is hell, but it is a spiritual concept, not physical. And everyone must be salted with fire (mk 9:49). It's the way we are instructed, it is what brings us into the "spirit". All our selfish works are burned up, but we ourselves are saved, yet so as by this fire.

Incorrect. Jesus spoke of hell (gehenna) as a real place, a place of punishment to be avoided at all costs.

Jesus did talk alot about hell, and if you read the passages, they all seem to be something that mankind goes through here on this earth in this life because they believe the lie instead of the truth. What is the lie? Same as it has always been, that the knowledge of good and evil will not kill you, but will make you like God.

Not once, that I can recall, does Jesus ever even imply that hell is something we go through now. It is always about punishment for things done in this life, but occurs after it.


Any arguments against hell by appealing to a "loving God" clearly ignore the utter serious of sin and the absolute holiness of God. I think these are two concepts all but lost in the western Church.

 

[rstrats]

Free,

re: “...the absolute holiness of God.â€


Why does the absolute holiness of the supreme being require him to torture a person for eternity because during the person’s fleeting few years of life they didn’t satisfy certain requirements and/or didn’t develop or have the potential to develop the right character needed to spend eternity with this supreme being? Why does the unsaved person absolutely HAVE to be given eternal life at the judgment? Who does that benefit?