B
BenJasher
Guest
Drew:
Unless I am badly mistook, Vic is of the female persuasion
No. This is not the language of eternal suffering. Let us take a look at the scriptures and let them speak for themselves, giving us the benefit of context and usage in the case of the terms in question here.
Jeremiah 7:20 Jerusalem and the Temple were to be burned with a fire that shall not be quenched. Is Jerusalem still on fire?No.
Jeremiah 17:27 Same as above. The answer is still the same. There is no fire that still burns there.
Isaiah 34:10 Edom was to become a stream of burning pitch that shall not be quenched. Is there a stream of pitch that is still on fire in Edom? No.
Ezekiel 20:47 same applies. I could go on and on.
A fire that is not quenched, or an unquenchable fire, is not one that will burn for the outermost limits of eternity. If that were true, Jerusalem would still be on fire, and uninhabitable. Edom would be a stream of burning pitch that has been on fire for about 2500 years. Some of what we take for granted as being truth is absolute nonsense when carefully considered in its intended context.
More correctly, a fire that is not quenched is a fire that cannot be extinguished until it has consumed all its fuel, or accomplished the purpose for which it was ignited. Unquenchable fires do go out.
In light of this, we who want to rightly divide the word of truth are only left with two viable options. One of those options would be to conclude that God cannot be trusted to do what He says He will do. The other option would be for us to conclude that what we have been taught all our lives was the truth, may not be. The choice is yours which option you go with. But as for me, I am absolutely convinced that He can be trusted with what He tells me.
We really need to be careful when making statements like this. The weak among us, and the unstable and the unlearned may take our words to be the truth when in fact they are not.
Many people will read Eternal Torment into the words of Jesus when He uses cryptic language like this. "Where the worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched" comes directly from Isaiah 66, where it refers to the dead bodies of those who have transgressed against the Lord. It is not a reference to lost souls in the torment of the afterlife. Read it for yourself. It is a reference to dead bodies going through the natural process of decomposition. Rotting, putrification, maggots, flies, foul stench; all these are part of what Jesus was referring to.
For us, or anyone else to try to make these passages speak of eternal torment, or to say that it does, is a careless and irresponsible mishandling of the scriptures. We are called to a higher level of scholarship than that.
Well, actually, this was not a display of childish attitude. It was not necessarily a hostile statement. It was a call for fairness on this whole thing.
Unless I am badly mistook, Vic is of the female persuasion
Servant2000 said:
No. This is not the language of eternal suffering. Let us take a look at the scriptures and let them speak for themselves, giving us the benefit of context and usage in the case of the terms in question here.
Jeremiah 7:20 Jerusalem and the Temple were to be burned with a fire that shall not be quenched. Is Jerusalem still on fire?No.
Jeremiah 17:27 Same as above. The answer is still the same. There is no fire that still burns there.
Isaiah 34:10 Edom was to become a stream of burning pitch that shall not be quenched. Is there a stream of pitch that is still on fire in Edom? No.
Ezekiel 20:47 same applies. I could go on and on.
A fire that is not quenched, or an unquenchable fire, is not one that will burn for the outermost limits of eternity. If that were true, Jerusalem would still be on fire, and uninhabitable. Edom would be a stream of burning pitch that has been on fire for about 2500 years. Some of what we take for granted as being truth is absolute nonsense when carefully considered in its intended context.
More correctly, a fire that is not quenched is a fire that cannot be extinguished until it has consumed all its fuel, or accomplished the purpose for which it was ignited. Unquenchable fires do go out.
In light of this, we who want to rightly divide the word of truth are only left with two viable options. One of those options would be to conclude that God cannot be trusted to do what He says He will do. The other option would be for us to conclude that what we have been taught all our lives was the truth, may not be. The choice is yours which option you go with. But as for me, I am absolutely convinced that He can be trusted with what He tells me.
We really need to be careful when making statements like this. The weak among us, and the unstable and the unlearned may take our words to be the truth when in fact they are not.
Many people will read Eternal Torment into the words of Jesus when He uses cryptic language like this. "Where the worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched" comes directly from Isaiah 66, where it refers to the dead bodies of those who have transgressed against the Lord. It is not a reference to lost souls in the torment of the afterlife. Read it for yourself. It is a reference to dead bodies going through the natural process of decomposition. Rotting, putrification, maggots, flies, foul stench; all these are part of what Jesus was referring to.
For us, or anyone else to try to make these passages speak of eternal torment, or to say that it does, is a careless and irresponsible mishandling of the scriptures. We are called to a higher level of scholarship than that.
Vic said:
Well, actually, this was not a display of childish attitude. It was not necessarily a hostile statement. It was a call for fairness on this whole thing.
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