What's new
By:
Filters
Christian Forums

This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

Hello, fellow humans.

Defiance said:
Hmm. But look at it this way: Jesus never really died. He is god, correct? Gods are (characterised as) immortal; they know not death. He just turned into his other god form. What is the sacrifice in that? He is being crucified for a few days, only to be reigned king of all heavens soon after. It seems he sacrificed nothing.
Appeasing to whom? God? Isn't he himself god?
Click to expand...
There are no forms of God, this is a very early church heresy known as Modalism. God is One, that is undoubtedly true, and yet He is Three Persons as One God. We do not worship Gods. The Son is not another mode of the Father. They are distinct Persons of the Holy Trinity. Yes, Jesus most certainly did die, and laid dead for three days. In Christ is another mystery of our faith: He is 100% man and 100% God. If Jesus were not 100% man, then man would not have been 100% redeemed at the Resurrection. Taking on an actual physical body, being born truly of a woman, experiencing emotions and temptations, all without sin, is precisely why He was the perfect sacrifice.
 
If not polytheism, this concept is kind of confusing and self contradictory.

Did Jesus sacrifice himself to God?

You say Jesus is god. If that is true, then he sacrificed himself to himself?

Hmm.

If a man could be made with free will, with temptation and emotion, and not commit sin, what happened when god made us?

It seems he did not make us to be sinless.
 
Blake said:
There are no forms of God, this is a very early church heresy known as Modalism. God is One, that is undoubtedly true, and yet He is Three Persons as One God. We do not worship Gods. The Son is not another mode of the Father. They are distinct Persons of the Holy Trinity. Yes, Jesus most certainly did die, and laid dead for three days. In Christ is another mystery of our faith: He is 100% man and 100% God. If Jesus were not 100% man, then man would not have been 100% redeemed at the Resurrection. Taking on an actual physical body, being born truly of a woman, experiencing emotions and temptations, all without sin, is precisely why He was the perfect sacrifice.
Click to expand...

Look at this ancient Christian icon, "Christ of Sinai", made in the 7th century.

sinai.jpg


Notice the duality in the left and right side. On the left side we see Christ giving a blessing, His face calm and serene -- our Savior. On the other, we see a more stern Christ, wielding the written word in His hand, portraying His role as Judge.

This icon is held at St. Catherine's Monastery in Egypt, and has survived many years of persecution and iconoclasm.
 
Blake said:
Look at this ancient Christian icon, "Christ of Sinai", made in the 7th century.

sinai.jpg


Notice the duality in the left and right side. On the left side we see Christ giving a blessing, His face calm and serene -- our Savior. On the other, we see a more stern Christ, wielding the written word in His hand, portraying His role as Judge.

This icon is held at St. Catherine's Monastery in Egypt, and has survived many years of persecution and iconoclasm.
Click to expand...
Yeah I can see that, you sure have an eye for mystery.
 
As I said, Jesus is not the Father. You're making it a little harder than it is, and you're trying to understand a spiritual mystery with a carnal mind. Christians are not polytheists, and there is nothing contradictory about what was said.
 
Blake said:
Only what has been revealed by the Spirit of God. I'm actually pretty daft. :tongue
Click to expand...
I can see exactly what that picture means and why there's duality, and if only the Spirit of God can only reveal that than I must have the holy ghost living inside of me too.
 
I think you misunderstood what I was trying to say. I was responding to your statement that I have an eye for mystery. I was saying that if anything pertaining to the mysteries of God has been revealed to me it's not by my own merit. No offense, but I don't think Christ of Sinai takes much to dissect. Yes my friend, you can see that it represents the dual nature of Jesus Christ, but only the Spirit can reveal to you that He is surely alive, He is surely your Savior, and He is surely in love with you and desires you to walk with Him.
 
Blake said:
I think you misunderstood what I was trying to say. I was responding to your statement that I have an eye for mystery. I was saying that if anything pertaining to the mysteries of God has been revealed to me it's not by my own merit. No offense, but I don't think Christ of Sinai takes much to dissect. Yes my friend, you can see that it represents the dual nature of Jesus Christ, but only the Spirit can reveal to you that He is surely alive, He is surely your Savior, and He is surely in love with you and desires you to walk with Him.
Click to expand...
And desire is who the Christ is supposed to be.
 
Blake said:
God is One
Click to expand...

Okay.

Blake said:
Three Persons as One God
Click to expand...

Okay.

Blake said:
The Son is not another mode of the Father
Click to expand...

But there is only one god. If not another form, then how can there be "one" god yet three distinct members of the trinity?

Blake said:
They are distinct Persons
Click to expand...

But only one of them is a god? Or do you call this pantheon a "god"?

Blake said:
If Jesus were not 100% man, then man would not have been 100% redeemed at the Resurrection
Click to expand...

Why?

Blake said:
Jesus is not the Father
Click to expand...

You said Jesus is 100% god, correct? There is only one god.

Blake said:
spiritual mystery with a carnal mind
Click to expand...

An all powerful god can be seen without restricting yourself to a point of view. Otherwise he lacks the ability to make himself known by all means.
 
He makes Himself known by His means. The Bible is very clear in Paul's epistle to the Corinthians that the carnal mind cannot receive the mysteries of God, because they are spiritually discerned. Even the wisest of men in their own rights cannot accept God, if they could have, the King of Glory would not have been crucified. As Paul had his Damascus Road experience, we do, too. Unless God draw a man, He will not come. Faith is a gift.

Back to your questions though, I thought it was clear what I said before. God is One. God is The Father, Son and Holy Spirit. And you know what? It's alright that it isn't something carnally or logically comprehended. Romans 11:33 attests to the depths, riches and wisdom of God being utterly unsearchable. I'm sorry to say that I can't possibly explain it to you, except with a very finite, human explanation that pales in comparison to the mystery: 1x1x1=1. Water is one substance but can occur in three states, water, ice, and vapor. Do these things explain the Trinity? No. But it's the best I can do in my little brain. :)
 
Last edited:
Blake,

These ideas are central to your belief. It is very important to know if Jesus is god or not. For example, Islam does not believe that Jesus was a god, just another human prophet.

Just try to answer this, it's more important of the questions; Is Jesus god?
 
I'm sorry brother, I know where all of this is going, and I don't have it in me. You wouldn't believe how often I've been challenged on my faith lately in my personal life, how much effort I've put into trying to explain and reason, and I have never seen anything come from it. The big problem here is you are unsatisfied with mystery. It is a great deficit and symptom of Western thought, that we must be able to scrutinize a subject by our own faculties in order for it to be true and justified, when in reality, some things simply cannot be grasped. I believe what the Bible says, and from a place of humility I understand that the ways of God are beyond me, but as His disciple, I believe His word. We can debate until the sun comes up and remain unchanged in our positions. But I wish you luck and I hope you find what you need! Maybe some else will parley with you on this one. God bless you.
 
Blake, don't do this. It's a simple matter of questions that can be answered using the Bible. Besides, wouldn't a god like it more if a believer truly searched for answers his entire life, rather than saying "Well, I can't know this so I'll just give in to blind faith."

I appreciate your conversation.
 
Defiance said:
Blake, don't do this. It's a simple matter of questions that can be answered using the Bible. Besides, wouldn't a god like it more if a believer truly searched for answers his entire life, rather than saying "Well, I can't know this so I'll just give in to blind faith."

I appreciate your conversation.
Click to expand...
They can be answered and they have been answered. 1 John 5:7-8. Colossians 2:9.

I do search for the truth my whole life, but I have a guiding light, a lamp for my feet. And though I see as though through a mirror darkly, I believe in what has been written, and not merely because it is written, but because of my communion with God. Rather than putting Christianity on "pending" in my file, I use it to search for the truth, and scrutinize all truth I find by it.

In the immortal words of C.S. Lewis, I believe in Christianity as I believe that the sun has risen. Not only because I see it, but because by it I can see everything else.
 
Welcome Defiance! I see you have quite the number of questions. Questions are great but those who come to God must first believe that He is. No need to make this complicated, and it doesn't appear that's your intent. However, God knows the motives and intentions of our hearts. I would humbly ask you to consider yours. If you come to the conclusion that you believe God exists and your intentions are to begin to learn of God, I will pray a simple prayer with you. True knowledge is understanding, and understanding is wisdom. May God reveal His nature in your life and show you His love that He has for us.
 
I think you fail to realize that most atheists have tried, to no avail, to look for gods. We've read the Bibles, Qu'rans, and some even the Book of Mormon.

There's nothing in my life so far that is miraculous, and cannot be explained by chance or nature.

I know you don't mean it, but by suggesting I "open up" to this god, you're assuming I am close minded, that I hate your belief and am just blind.

I used to believe in a god, and when I realized I could not prove that there was such a thing outside of my mind or the words on a page, I fessed up dropped the charades.

You will find this offensive, because to you, the idea of your god is central, there's nothing that can convince you otherwise. For all I know, you'll think I'm sent by satan or your god to test your faith.

So, why is it that god seems to have chosen you guys to show himself to, while 5 billion people from other religions (and some atheists) never see the god you refer to?

The scriptures are written in a way that protect them (themselves), from people who might have ideas differing from it. Like 2 John 1:10-11.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top