Hello!

[Dorothy Mae]

Are you sure you are not a Christian?


Welcome, and I’m glad you found us.





JLB

The understanding T. E. demonstrates is remarkable, isn’t it?

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Yes for a short time I was a deist and thought I could learn about God through creation. That was until I learned of evolution's truth.

Nature doesn’t teach us much about God any more than a house teaches you all about the designer. It can a little, but no one studying an edifice knows how the architect treated the spouse and children and friends.

 

[JLB]

The understanding T. E. demonstrates is remarkable, isn’t it?

Yes!

Remarkable!!



JLB

 

[eddif]

Yes for a short time I was a deist and thought I could learn about God through creation. That was until I learned of evolution's truth.

Did you look into the human body symbols?
Symbols of things to come.

The hidden man of the heart
The kingdom - cerebellum
The Godhead sun moon light
Repentance kidneys / reins

All my study has Ben based on scripture.

eddif

 

[T. E. Smith]

Did you look into the human body symbols?
Symbols of things to come.

The hidden man of the heart
The kingdom - cerebellum
The Godhead sun moon light
Repentance kidneys / reins

All my study has Ben based on scripture.

eddif

I remain unconvinced. ;)

 

[T. E. Smith]

The understanding T. E. demonstrates is remarkable, isn’t it?

Yes!

Remarkable!!



JLB

Ahh you two are making me blush :P

 

[eddif]

Nature doesn’t teach us much about God any more than a house teaches you all about the designer. It can a little, but no one studying an edifice knows how the architect treated the spouse and children and friends.

LOL
I guess I learned a lot about architects readng
From The Ground Up. 1976
John N. Cole and Charlie Wing

One wrote the technical and the other the philosophy. All about family, using the sun, wind direction, which trees go where, private areas, social areas, etc.

0ne chapter would be technical
The other metaphysical.

Probably a bunch of hippie influence.

I enjoyed the book,

eddif

 

[Dorothy Mae]

LOL
I guess I learned a lot about architects readng
From The Ground Up. 1976
John N. Cole and Charlie Wing

One wrote the technical and the other the philosophy. All about family, using the sun, wind direction, which trees go where, private areas, social areas, etc.

0ne chapter would be technical
The other metaphysical.

Probably a bunch of hippie influence.

I enjoyed the book,

eddif

Lol, you read their BOOKS, not merely looked at their building! Try looking at a building, which was my point, and tell me what the architect thought about philosophy just from looking at the structure.

 

[T. E. Smith]

Lol, you read their BOOKS, not merely looked at their building! Try looking at a building, which was my point, and tell me what the architect thought about philosophy just from looking at the structure.

Building design reveals worldview. For example, builders of tall, angular glass buildings tend to be far more liberal.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Building design reveals worldview. For example, builders of tall, angular glass buildings tend to be far more liberal.

If the best you can do is only a “tendency” in political persuasion, the building didn’t communicate much.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

I remain unconvinced. ;)

Rightly so. People will turn anything into a metaphor.

 

[eddif]

Lol, you read their BOOKS, not merely looked at their building! Try looking at a building, which was my point, and tell me what the architect thought about philosophy just from looking at the structure.

Ok.
I read the Bible with its cryptic language, and when the builder and maker designs something the Holy Spirit leads into understandings connections. I use Everything to knowing the answer. I am just along for the ride.

Parables hid things. You have to ask to understand. The natural human mind can not supply answers. So that seeing they see not, and hearing they hear not.

Which relates to the OP.

eddif

 

[T. E. Smith]

If the best you can do is only a “tendency” in political persuasion, the building didn’t communicate much.

Yeah, I rejected the idea that the natural world can tell us much about God.

Ok.
I read the Bible with its cryptic language, and when the builder and maker designs something the Holy Spirit leads into understandings connections. I use Everything to knowing the answer. I am just along for the ride.

Parables hid things. You have to ask to understand. The natural human mind can not supply answers. So that seeing they see not, and hearing they hear not.

Which relates to the OP.

eddif

So the only people who can understand the Bible are those who believe it? How convenient! One might as well claim that only someone who believes in evolution can understand it.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Yeah, I rejected the idea that the natural world can tell us much about God.

Tells us He loves beauty and He’s fairly awesome in ability. Doesn’t address his character or ways.

So the only people who can understand the Bible are those who believe it? How convenient! One might as well claim that only someone who believes in evolution can understand it.

That is fascinating because that’s what evolutionists say. If you don’t believe it, then you don’t understand it.

I’ve been thinking of asking you a question no atheist has been able to answer successfully when I’ve asked them. You might just be the first.

Can you explain the Gospel of Jesus as the NT presents it that I can agree with as true? Iow, to my satisfaction. (I put the NT restrictions there because 1, you know the Bible well and 2, I don’t want this typical Anglo-American “accept Jesus into your heart” mumbo that is no where in the NT in connection with the Gospel.)

This is likely something a lot of Christians cannot actually do so it might be educational as well.

 

[T. E. Smith]

Tells us He loves beauty and He’s fairly awesome in ability. Doesn’t address his character or ways.

That is fascinating because that’s what evolutionists say. If you don’t believe it, then you don’t understand it.

I’ve been thinking of asking you a question no atheist has been able to answer successfully when I’ve asked them. You might just be the first.

Can you explain the Gospel of Jesus as the NT presents it that I can agree with as true? Iow, to my satisfaction. (I put the NT restrictions there because 1, you know the Bible well and 2, I don’t want this typical Anglo-American “accept Jesus into your heart” mumbo that is no where in the NT in connection with the Gospel.)

This is likely something a lot of Christians cannot actually do so it might be educational as well.

No evolutionist I know of claims that evolution can only be comprehended by those who believe it. It is true that a lack of education on evolution is a contributing factor on why it is rejected by some people. But definitely not all who reject it do so because they don't understand it. (Many objections to evolution show a lack of understanding of the theory, for example the ridiculous question "why do we still have apes?") I will take you up on the presentation of the Gospel. I find the theory and its development fascinating. But right now I am on my phone and it is quite late where I am so I will have to do that a little later.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

No evolutionist I know of claims that evolution can only be comprehended by those who believe it. It is true that a lack of education on evolution is a contributing factor on why it is rejected by some people. But definitely not all who reject it do so because they don't understand it. (Many objections to evolution show a lack of understanding of the theory, for example the ridiculous question "why do we still have apes?")

What did Dawkins say? Those who don’t believe in Evolution either don’t understand it, are stupid or evil. Something along those lines. I’ve heard the charge numerous times. Prof in Biology who taught evolution for decades were acces of not understanding it when they finally rejected its claims of man from non-man slowly over time.

) I will take you up on the presentation of the Gospel. I find the theory and its development fascinating. But right now I am on my phone and it is quite late where I am so I will have to do that a little later.

No problem. Looking forward to your answer.

 

[andy pandy]

Thanks for the welcome everyone.

I never can remember having accepted Christ or entering faith, I just always had it from my parents (until I was sixteen). Some Christians will tell me that that means I was never a Christian. I consider those Christians extremely arrogant to think they can say that.

Hallo romantic rationalist. This comment of yours tells us a lot about you. If you were a Christian you would not have considered those Christians who said that as extremely arrogant. One could say you were extremely arrogant by discounting that possibility.

I have been a Christian for 69 years and over that time I have appreciated everything that has been said to me because it has mean I have been challenged in some cases as to what I believe. As a result I am stronger for it.

Most of the time you believe what the church teaches you. That is why we have differences of belief. Is one right and one wrong? Not for me to say as I am told to work out MY salvation, not everyone elses.

If you are to have any hope of being born again (being religious is irrelevant) you have to keep your heart and spiritual eyes open because if you don't you will probably miss the signposts.

 

[T. E. Smith]

What did Dawkins say? Those who don’t believe in Evolution either don’t understand it, are stupid or evil.

That sentiment is not representative of evolutionists and atheists, Dawkins is extreme. Evil is not a word to use. Stupid is kinda rude, but maybe describes some people well like Ken Ham. He should have added another possibility: honestly mistaken.

If you were a Christian you would not have considered those Christians who said that as extremely arrogant. One could say you were extremely arrogant by discounting that possibility.

Disagree. Telling someone, "I know what you believe, and you don't know what you believe" or "and it's not what you think you believe" is highly arrogant. That's it. What if I told you, "Andy, I know you don't believe in God, even though you think you do." I would not say something like that to someone ever.

born again (being religious is irrelevant)

I often hear this from Christians but what does it mean?

 

[Dorothy Mae]

That sentiment is not representative of evolutionists and atheists, Dawkins is extreme. Evil is not a word to use. Stupid is kinda rude, but maybe describes some people well like Ken Ham. He should have added another possibility: honestly mistaken.

Lennox said other atheists distance themselves from Dawkins so I agree. But it cannot be said no atheist says that. I’ve heard enough of them say so.

Disagree. Telling someone, "I know what you believe, and you don't know what you believe" or "and it's not what you think you believe" is highly arrogant. That's it. What if I told you, "Andy, I know you don't believe in God, even though you think you do." I would not say something like that to someone ever.

Not to me I see.

I often hear this from Christians but what does it mean?

Again not for me.

 

[T. E. Smith]

Not to me I see.

Again not for me.

Right, I was responding to someone else.

Lennox said other atheists distance themselves from Dawkins so I agree.

Yeah, recently Greg Epstein, humanist chaplain of Harvard, critiqued some of Dawkin's statements on trans folks, for example. But Epstein has been criticizing him for over a decade, as have many other atheists.

Hallo romantic rationalist.

By the way, when I use that phrase to describe myself: I call myself a rationalist, but some people view that as cold. So I add the romantic part, in the classical sense, which just means emotional or feelings-based. The two words are a contrast. Also when I say I am a rationalist I don't mean other people are irrational, what I mean is that I strive to base my life and believes on reason only.