help....Jesus sinned doctrine

[Nevvy]

Hello everybody I have been trying to explain to a group of 'church' people that Jesus committed no sin. However its their doctrine that ,NOW LISTEN TO THIS, when Jesus became Christ he became sinless...I have been called a bigot by their church 'Apostle' for refusing to except Their way of thinking and last night one of their members left their saying, they are leading him to hell...help me a baby Christian answer this...their Theology..Pasted below
It is quite astonishing to notice that many Christians around the world including those who claim to follow the Apostolic religion are unable to draw a dichotomy between Jesus, the son of man and Christ, son of God. Jesus said this unambiguously in Metthew: 18 " who do people say I am, me the son of man". The Apostles responded with various answers, but Peter said: " I say You are Christ the son of the living God" and Jesus said to him, " this what you are saying Simon is not revealed by flesh and blood, but unveiled by my father who art in heaven." We must understand this, something that is revealed it is an aspect that is not known to everyone. In this case Jesus was well known during his time, but what was concealed in Him was Christ, the son of God. We must remember beloved what is born of flesh is flesh and what is born of spirit is spirit. For God is a spirit, therefore He can only give birth to spirit. But God can only create a flesh and any physical object, but can't give birth. There is an enormous ravine between creation and giving birth. When you create, you make something out of nothing, but when you give birth, you take part of you and make something. Therefore Christ was inserted in Jesus and Jesus became a new creature, Jesus Christ.Those who follow Apostolic religion will understand that an Apostle is not a man, but is a spirit that is inserted into a man and man become Apostle Paulous for example. Before that spirit inserted a man is not a son of God , but an ordinary person or is not an Apostle. This is exactly what happened to Jesus.

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

Hi Nevvy, what church do you go to?

 

[Nevvy]

I attend at saved Church I come out of an Apostolic church however I was invited to an Apostlic forum...only to find out one break away church believes and teaches this doctrine....I was in the New Apostolic church...its the only church in history to have so many schims... You got an answer for me.

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

No, I don't.
But look at Paul.
When people would not reason with him, he moved on.

 

[Nevvy]

No, I don't.
But look at Paul.
When people would not reason with him, he moved on.

I can't this group called Twevle Apostle Church in Church has 4 million adherents and last night one of them realised that the doctrine he follows is false and open left that group to find a bible based church...to walk away when there are others who need the same help, I couldn't live with myself...

 

[Paul1965]

Nevvy, your heart is in the right place in wanting to help others, but you must leave. IYou have already voiced the truth that Christ was conceived by the spirit, born of His virgin mother and IS the sinless SON of God and is God.
If they choose not to listen, their fate is of their own doing.
To paraphrase, "For He was without sin, but was made sin for OUR iniquities"
Tell them to read a the Bible once in a while as you walk out the door.

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

I can't this group called Twevle Apostle Church in Church has 4 million adherents and last night one of them realised that the doctrine he follows is false and open left that group to find a bible based church...to walk away when there are others who need the same help, I couldn't live with myself...

That's good Nevvy, then you're making progress.
Keep asking questions, people here will help you.

 

[Nevvy]

Nevvy, your heart is in the right place in wanting to help others, but you must leave. IYou have already voiced the truth that Christ was conceived by the spirit, born of His virgin mother and IS the sinless SON of God and is God.
If they choose not to listen, their fate is of their own doing.
To paraphrase, "For He was without sin, but was made sin for OUR iniquities"
Tell them to read a the Bible once in a while as you walk out the door.

I shook the tree and one apple fell off it of the 4 million on the tree....I choose to stay they will have to ban me...

 

[Nevvy]

The problem is they believe Jesus had two natures...dispite what you show them from scripture...the flesh where he sinned and then when he became Christ that's when he sinned no more...basically they say only when Jesus became Christ he was without sin...they use his been baptise by John to prove he was a sinner and that he broke the sabbath...so I asked why do they go to church on Sunday?...Oh and he whipped the elders in the temple....

 

[JLB]

For we do not have a High Priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but was in all points tempted as we are, yet without sin. Hebrews 4:15

and again -

For He made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him. 2 Corinthians 5:21



And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifested in the flesh, Justified in the Spirit, Seen by angels, Preached among the Gentiles, Believed on in the world, Received up in glory.
1 Timothy 3:16

 

[Nevvy]

For we do not have a High Priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but was in all points tempted as we are, yet without sin. Hebrews 4:15

and again -

For He made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him. 2 Corinthians 5:21



And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifested in the flesh, Justified in the Spirit, Seen by angels, Preached among the Gentiles, Believed on in the world, Received up in glory.
1 Timothy 3:16

Thanks jbl...I didn't post the 3rd verse you shared..so their response is this..the veres you posting are from the epistles and that is when Jesus had become Christ...before that he Jesus a sinner...but I'm going look now nicely into Timothy 3 vs 16 thanks again.

 

[Eugene]

Nevvy
Dear Brother Neevy, in your disposition to change them that you are being delivered from, will best be illustrated by the light of your changed life, and the prosperity and well being (Not riches of mammon) in the things of God. Your questions are a portion of the very fruit whereby we know you, and the deliverance God is providing you.

I came from the Catholic Church and know there are multitudes of them as saved as me, though possessing doctrines that never allow them to grow in grace and knowledge of our Lord. The Apostolic Church is but another branch of Christianity with many different doctrines even among themselves. Should you remain while attempting to make them see the truth of new revelation God is working in you? I would say no unless God personally gives you that calling. We but sow the word, another waters, and it is God that gives the increase. I’ve heard of certain Catholic brethren spinning their wheels for years staying while trying to make them know the truth, and yet forsaking their personal growth needed to having God’s best.

We read in Revelation 18:4 where God’s people are told to come out of a certain religious system. “Come out of her, my people,” and that is to not be partakers of her error. You are not here by chance, nor are you forsaken to tread water alone; God is working in you to will and to do of His good pleasure. (Php 2:13)

May God bless your understanding that increases your inheritance in Him for the eternities to come. God is willing and has given us all the foundation we need, and that is in scripture provided us, and the Holy Spirit to lead us into that truth.
Blessings in Christ Jesus.

 

[Paul1965]

Jesus was baptized by John as one of the things he needed to do to fulfill the prophesy sent by God through the prophets. He was without sin. As Eugene has so rightly stated, there are literally thousands of doctrines / denominations. ALL of them made by men, NOT GOD. The only doctrine any Christian should follow is the teachings of Jesus in the New Testament which doesn't negate the Old Testament's validity, it strengthens it and introduces and instructs us in the way we are to act in order to serve God through Jesus.. As these commandments of Jesus are of God Himself, He has the right to negate old doctrines not men with any brand name church.
Jesus didn't become the Christ, He was immaculately conceived and born as Christ through God's ultimate wisdom and planning.
The satan tempted Jesus to sin, but He in His glory and purity did not.
I'm sorry Nevvy, but if the church you're attending is teaching that Jesus was a sinner, they are teaching false doctrine and in my book (The Holy Bible) that makes them a tool of the devil. It may be that they are misguided or have misinterpreted something but that is the devils work just the same.

 

[WIP]

Deliver the message of truth and let the Holy Spirit take it from there. Take care to know when to hold and when to fold.

Luke 9:
1. Then he called his twelve disciples together, and gave them power and authority over all devils, and to cure diseases.
2. And he sent them to preach the kingdom of God, and to heal the sick.
3. And he said unto them, Take nothing for your journey, neither staves, nor scrip, neither bread, neither money; neither have two coats apiece.
4. And whatsoever house ye enter into, there abide, and thence depart.
5. And whosoever will not receive you, when ye go out of that city, shake off the very dust from your feet for a testimony against them.

 

[Sparkey]

Even the baby John, who later would become John the Baptist, knew Jesus.

When Elizabeth heard Mary's greeting, the baby leaped in her womb; and Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit. And she cried out with a loud voice and said, "Blessed are you among women, and blessed is the fruit of your womb!…

Jesus was born of a virgin.

Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man? And the angel answered and said unto her, The HolySpirit shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee; therefore also that holy Thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.

Jesus is HOLY at birth. Holy means apart from sin. We also know that He is the the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world. He was tested like as we yet no sin.

Nevvy - there are many false teachers and many anti-christ spirits in the world. You, as a young follower of Christ, are to have joy in the fact that your sins are forgiven. God does not expect you to save that church nor does He need you to stay and persuade them of their folly. Instead, your Heavenly Father wants what is best for you. Seek Him and ask that He show you a place where you are given the pure milk of the word. We, each of us, need this daily.

~Sparrow

 

[Deborah13]

I attend at saved Church I come out of an Apostolic church however I was invited to an Apostlic forum...only to find out one break away church believes and teaches this doctrine....I was in the New Apostolic church...its the only church in history to have so many schims... You got an answer for me.

Is this the church that you are talking about? http://www.twelveapostlescc.org/index.php If so, there are other things they teach that are not scriptural but this is the most profound. First this is what scripture says about Jesus.

Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Joh 1:2 The same was in the beginning with God.
Joh 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
Joh 1:4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
Joh 1:10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.
Joh 1:11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not.
Joh 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

The Word (Jesus) was in the beginning, The Word (Jesus) was God, The Word (Jesus) was made flesh, The Word (Jesus) the only begotten of the Father.
ALL things were made by Him (the Word, Jesus).

"We believe that distinction must be made between Jesus, son of man, of the house of David , Jesus David (Luke 18:38) and Jesus, Son of God, the anointed one, Jesus Christ. Jesus David was indeed an intelligent young man who had learnt much about Jewish religious beliefs in his upbringing and who knew his calling. When he followed so many of his contemporaries to the river Jordan and was baptised by John The Baptist, that was not the end, he was then anointed by God. The Holy Spirit descended on Him (in the form of a dove) and a voice from the Heavens spoke “this is my beloved Son in whom I am well pleased” (Matt.3: 17 ). Our belief is that there are 2 baptisms, the first by water, the second by the laying on of hands by a living Apostle, the baptism of The Holy Spirit: Jesus David was the human person, Jesus Christ is the spiritual person, the Son of God."
http://www.twelveapostlescc.org/Dogma_of_TACC.php

These men have set themselves up as 'little gods'. The reason I say this is because......quoted from their site under Dogma.

" We believe in the preaching to the dead and to the spirits (1 Peter 3:18-20) and the purification of these souls, the giving of the gift of The Holy Spirit to the living (Psalm 68:18) as well as the baptism of the living for the dead (1 Corinthians 15:29)"

1Pe 3:18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:
1Pe 3:19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;

This is something only our Lord had the power to do and He did it after His physical death and before He was resurrected. Therefore, they can't do this and be alive in the flesh, if they think they are doing what Jesus did.

1Co 15:29 Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? why are they then baptized for the dead?

There were false prophets telling the church that there was no resurrection. Paul's argument is...if they do not believe there is a resurrection why do they baptize for the dead?

This last one is so against anything Biblical they put themselves and their dogmas before Jesus Christ.

" We believe that the only way to receive Jesus Christ is to receive the Apostles first, as Jesus Christ commanded “ whosoever receives you receives Me and whosoever receives Me receives Him who sent Me” (Matt. 10:40)."

Really nevvy, in my opinion, you should listen to the Godly men who have spoken to you here. That does not mean you do not continue to pray for those in that church and the Lord may show you ways to witness to them outside that environment but you will need a lot of knowledge of the word and much strength. Please take the time necessary to do that.

May our Lord Jesus bless you and keep you,
Deborah

 

[TOG]

Is this the church that you are talking about?

I had found that same site before I read your post. They also say this:

We believe that the only way to receive Jesus Christ is to receive the Apostles first, as Jesus Christ commanded “ whosoever receives you receives Me and whosoever receives Me receives Him who sent Me” (Matt. 10:40).

In other words, if you're not a member of their church, then you're not saved. That's a sure sign of a cult.

The TOG​

 

[Deborah13]

I had found that same site before I read your post. They also say this:



In other words, if you're not a member of their church, then you're not saved. That's a sure sign of a cult.

The TOG​

Yes, It is the Gospel message given by the preacher or read in the Bible, that we receive and believe.

 

[JLB]

Thanks jbl...I didn't post the 3rd verse you shared..so their response is this..the veres you posting are from the epistles and that is when Jesus had become Christ...before that he Jesus a sinner...but I'm going look now nicely into Timothy 3 vs 16 thanks again.

Jesus is, was and forever will be God.

Jesus Christ, the same yesterday, Today and forever.

He is YHWH, The Lord God Almighty, who became flesh.

He is the Only Begotten of The Father.


The Father is God.

The Son is God.

He was Begotten before the foundation of the world.

Spirit gives birth to Spirit.



JLB

 

[for_his_glory]

Nevvy, just ask them to show you in scripture where it states this and then when they can't provide scripture for proof be ready to show them scriptures where it states that Jesus is the Christ and ask them to read those scriptures out loud to you. John Chapter one is all we need for proof that Jesus is that light of Christ come into the world.

Nevvy, do not neglect your own growth in truth through the Holy Spirit teaching you all things as when we try to confront others with the word spoken to them in love Satan loves to come in and tries to confound our own minds by what others speak.