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Help Me Answer These Questions.

Why is there no mention of satan or the devil in Abraham's lifetime ?

Why is there no mention of the devil or satan in the first five books of the Bible ?

Besides the book of Job there is no mention of the devil or satan any where in the old testament which spans 4,000
years.

Abraham , Isaac, Jacob, Israel, King David never mention the devil or satan why?

Signed Confused
 
Nothing of Satan was mentioned during Abraham's lifetime because Abraham had no need for a knowledge of Satan.

There is no mention of Satan in the Pentateuch because it is the history of Israel's beginning and their law of life, which does not involve Satan.

Satan does make some cameos in the Old Testament and is mentioned by David himself: 1 Chronicles 21:1, Psalms 109:6, and Zechariah 3:1-2.

He is also spoken of in Isaiah chapter 14, being called Lucifer, which is called Satan.

Satan means "The Adversary." Personally, I think in some instances, when the word "Satan" is used, it is not referring literally to the devil Lucifer but is used to imply a wickedness of heart and to show opposition to godly ways. However, I have no real proof. It just seems that way.
 
Satan means "The Adversary." Personally, I think in some instances, when the word "Satan" is used, it is not referring literally to the devil Lucifer but is used to imply a wickedness of heart and to show opposition to godly ways. However, I have no real proof. It just seems that way.

Satan
 
Brench said;
Satan does make some cameos in the Old Testament and is mentioned by David himself: 1 Chronicles 21:1, Psalms 109:6, and Zechariah 3:1-2.

He is also spoken of in Isaiah chapter 14, being called Lucifer, which is called Satan.

Elvis Said;

1Ch 21:1 And Satan stood up against Israel, and provoked David to number Israel.

2Sa 24:1 And again the anger of the LORD was kindled against Israel, and he moved David against them to say,
Go, number Israel and Judah.

Please take the time to read both chapters so you can put the story in context of what was a tragedy for Israel !

In point of fact Yahweh is called satan because He was an adversary to David.
Satan is an untranslated word directly from Hebrew. Pronounced saw-tawn.
The meaning of the word is not " the Adversary'
but it is "any adversary" that is why Yahweh is called satan in 1 chron 21 ;1

This is the first occurrence of the word in the Bible and it says The Lord was satan to King David.

If you change the word in Job to any adversary instead of Satan you will see it fits.
Look closely at Job and you will see that the adversary was in church with Job.
Whats up with that? Dont you think the others in church with Job would have noticed a red, pitchforked,
evil, creature yet there is no mention by the others of Jobs friends.

Let us look at Lucifer in Isa 14. This is a fable handed down through the ages by those who pull things out of context to prove their point.
Start at the beginning of Isa 14 v Isa 14:3 ¶ And it shall come to pass in the day that the LORD shall give thee rest from thy sorrow, and from thy fear, and from the hard bondage wherein thou wast made to serve,

Isa 14:4 That thou shalt take up this proverb against the king of Babylon, and say, How hath the oppressor ceased! the golden city ceased!

Everything that follows v 3 is about THE KING OF BABYLON not satan.
Lucifer means 'a light' thats all.
We know from history that the KIng of Babylon caused all to worship him as God. Shadrach, Meshach. Abendigo,
would not bow down and were thrown in the fire.
The King of Babylon was called THE MORNING STAR and was cast down to the earth to eat straw until he
acknowleged YHWH. These are historical facts.

Psa 109:6 Set thou a wicked man over him: and let Satan stand at his right hand.
Strong's 7854
1) adversary, one who withstands

a) adversary (in general - personal or national)

Why did the translators take the same word but translated it as adversary 7 times?

Abraham never believed his loving God would allow an evil creature to make us sin.
I dont either.
Why do christians believe in satan?
 
Thanks, PouringRain.

That's kind of what I had in mind. Of course, I'm sure whoever wrote that has his own abstract idea of it and I'm sure plenty of others do as well. But it does strike close to what I was getting at.
 
Thanks, PouringRain.

That's kind of what I had in mind. Of course, I'm sure whoever wrote that has his own abstract idea of it and I'm sure plenty of others do as well. But it does strike close to what I was getting at.

You are welcome. When I read what you wrote I wanted you to know you weren't alone. :) Although, I would disagree that the individual who wrote that was inputing his/her own abstract idea. It comes from Judaic belief, so it would be the idea of a general group, rather than an individual. There is more on the topic here on this page, (although the question asked therein is unrelated to the present topic of this thread).
 
Elvispelvis, who would you say tempted Jesus then while He fasted?

Presently I want to stick to the old testament in this thread to see if anyone can answer the questions I put forward.
Certainly I will cover who tempted Jesus in another post on the new testament but for know I would like to hear
about the old testament teachings on satan, devil, lucifer.

When I showed you about Isaiah 14 being King Nebuchadnezzer you did not comment why?
Why dont you respond to 1chron 21 and 2 Sam 24 1 were The Lord is called satan it was your verse that you showed me.
I suppose you have no answer.
Modern churches are astray from the old testament teachings.
Hoping for an old testament answer!
As for who tempted Yeshua the Bible says we are tempted ;
Jam 1:13 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:

Jam 1:14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
1Jo 2:16 For all that [is] in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.
 
Why is there no mention of satan or the devil in Abraham's lifetime ?
Perhaps False

Why is there no mention of the devil or satan in the first five books of the Bible ?
Arguably False

Besides the book of Job there is no mention of the devil or satan any where in the old testament which spans 4,000
years.
Obviously False

Abraham , Isaac, Jacob, Israel, King David never mention the devil or satan why?
Obviously False

Signed Confused
True:thumbsup
 
Mr. Elvis,

I was here to answer your question. Regardless of whether the identity of Satan in 1 Samuel 24:1 and 1 Chronicles 21:1 is not who we commonly call the Devil and is in this case God acting against David because of his own prideful heart, a simple search using the "Find" button in E-Sword produces all the instances of the word "Satan" that you were looking for. Whether they all refer to the enemy of God or not is not what I felt influenced to discover for you.

I agree with what you say about 1 Samuel 24:1 and 1 Chronicles 21:1. It is the only way these two verses make sense in lieu of one another.

Also, what you say about Lucifer is true. Though I've never before considered it, this passage in Isaiah 14 is in fact speaking of a man that fits the description of no one other than Nebuchadnezzer. However, there may be a reason that he is spoken of as falling from heaven and saying that he will ascend into the heavens.

I can't completely dismiss an existence of The Adversary yet.
 
Brench you have made me so happy it is hard to describe my joy.

Truly your eyes are opening, your ears are hearing, pray to the Father thanking Him.

I have a Bible class of 1,123 weekly and over 100,000 hits or seeds planted this past year and not one person
has ever understood 1 chron 21 1/ 2 sam 24 1 that YHWH is an advesary to David therefore is a saw-tawn.

The Bible was not written in English.

The same Hebrew word saw-tawn has been translated as adversary 17 times satan 39 times why the differance?
Because the translators of KJB in 1611 believed in the devil and satan and lucifer so they wrote it into the bible.
The original Hebrew reads much differant than our modern English Bibles. Strong's shows us the originals so we can through seeking we can find.

Brench you are truly unique for me anyway , you are the first person in forty years of preaching that
answered that question correctly.
You said the only logical conclusion you could come to was that YHWH can be a satan, then anyone can be a satan and that exlpains satan in Job it was someone in his church who was extremely jealous of Job and complained to YHWH that he favoured Job unfairly.

Is 14 is clearly talking about King Nebuchadnezzer helps to understand "The One Who Fell From Heaven"

We must remember that King Neb called himself God and demanded that all bow down to him as God.

So King Neb declared himself to "be in Heaven as God" He raised himself to sit in the heavens as God
so when YHWH caused the King to go mad and eat the grass of the field for seven years then truly the King
"was cast out of heaven and fell to the earth" he actually ate grass, according to history, then when the King
came into his right and admitted that "The Most High Ruleth In The Kingdoms O f Men" YHWH restored the
kingdom to the King as ruler of the earth and King Neb regained his throne In Heaven .

This is just a quick note to say thanks for reading the chapters with such an open mind. You are blessed.
The truth will set you free from the fable of a satan that makes us sin. Who has demons lurking in the dark to get us, etc, etc,.
Once the old testament teachings are understood then you can move on to the new testament
fitting the both together. Our Heavenly Father who loves us would not allow such a creature as the CHURCHES DESCRIBE. That is why Abraham, Isaac, Jacob never mention the devil or satan because it is a modern invention
of the churches to scare you into churches so they can collect money.

Isa 66:4 I also will choose their delusions, and will bring their fears upon them; because when I called, none did answer; when I spake, they did not hear: but they did evil before mine eyes, and chose [that] in which I delighted not.
The delusions are from the Father. He says I will bring there fears upon them and everyone is afraid of satan, devils, demons, vampires, werewolves, etc, etc.
You made my posting fun again when just one person says hey maybe the old testament is right.

The old testament is full of future events, Prophecy.
Please study the old testament
 
Unoriginal Sinthesis
Help Me Answer These Questions.

Quote Originally Posted by Elvispelvis View Post
Why is there no mention of satan or the devil in Abraham's lifetime ?
Perhaps False

Quote Originally Posted by Elvispelvis View Post
Why is there no mention of the devil or satan in the first five books of the Bible ?
Arguably False

Quote Originally Posted by Elvispelvis View Post
Besides the book of Job there is no mention of the devil or satan any where in the old testament which spans 4,000
years.
Obviously False

Quote Originally Posted by Elvispelvis View Post
Abraham , Isaac, Jacob, Israel, King David never mention the devil or satan why?
Obviously False

Quote Originally Posted by Elvispelvis View Post
Signed Confused
True

Elvispelvis said;

Thanks to unoriginal sinthesis for your intelligent, cerebral, thought provoking, mind blowing , articulate,
responses to my questions.

Your answers are so convincing I may have to change my whole way of thinking.

The way you used scripture to prove all the things I said as wrong wow that was something to behold!!

I am so glad you did not just use your own opinion but you took the time to explain the scriptures to us.

I could go on but I can not stop laughing.
Sorry Craig
 
Thanks to unoriginal sinthesis for your intelligent, cerebral, thought provoking, mind blowing , articulate,
responses to my questions.

Your answers are so convincing I may have to change my whole way of thinking.

The way you used scripture to prove all the things I said as wrong wow that was something to behold!!

I am so glad you did not just use your own opinion but you took the time to explain the scriptures to us.

I could go on but I can not stop laughing.
Sorry Craig

Come down off your high horse; the thin air is clouding your mind.:D
In each case your OP questions were incorrect in their assumptions. However, in fact they are actually rhetorical questions, because you really don't want answers, just an excuse to "teach". Fine; but there is no need for the pretense of asking for help.
 
Hello Unoriginal Sinthesis and welcome to our nook.

As a new member, I would ask you to please become familiar with our Terms of Service at the below provided link.
http://www.christianforums.net/f15/terms-service-updated-oct-12-2009-a-1332/

I'll help you a bit by posting a few things you may want to keep in mind for future posts.

5 - Respect each others' opinions. Address issues, not persons or personalities.

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15 - No trolling. Don't make inflammatory remarks just to get a response. You won't be labeled as a troll if your post has substance. Refrain from behavior which may be deemed inappropriate or disruptive as defined by these terms of Service and at christianforums.net sole discretion.

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28b We want this Community to be a fun place to learn and interact with others from a Christian world view. If you have a problem with someone either take it up with them privately or report the violation.

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Editing and deleting of posts is at the discretion of the Mods and Admins. Refusal of membership and suspension or termination of existing members is at the discretion of the Administrators. Openly challenging a Mod or Admin is frowned upon.

Again, welcome to our forums.

ElvisPelvis, you also should consider the Terms of service for future posts.
 
The Tanakh is only part of the Jewish man's faith. You appear to be very "into" being like the Jews, Elvis, so I would direct you towards the Talmud. Of course, the Talmud is a deceptive book that is written by the very being you are trying to say does not exist!!!

Isaiah 14:12-22 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations! For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north: I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High. Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit. They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, and consider thee, saying, Is this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms; That made the world as a wilderness, and destroyed the cities thereof; that opened not the house of his prisoners? All the kings of the nations, even all of them, lie in glory, every one in his own house. But thou art cast out of thy grave like an abominable branch, and as the raiment of those that are slain, thrust through with a sword, that go down to the stones of the pit; as a carcase trodden under feet. Thou shalt not be joined with them in burial, because thou hast destroyed thy land, and slain thy people: the seed of evildoers shall never be renowned. Prepare slaughter for his children for the iniquity of their fathers; that they do not rise, nor possess the land, nor fill the face of the world with cities. For I will rise up against them, saith the LORD of hosts, and cut off from Babylon the name, and remnant, and son, and nephew, saith the LORD.
Ezekiel 28:12-19 Son of man, take up a lamentation upon the king of Tyrus, and say unto him, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty. Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created. Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire. Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee. By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire. Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee. Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffic; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee. All they that know thee among the people shall be astonished at thee: thou shalt be a terror, and never shalt thou be any more.
Sounds to me like Satan has two entire biographies in the Tanakh!

I would hazard you from going any farther down the road you are trying to go down, Elvis. To do so would suggest that you are in opposition to God's time. He does things in His time, and He took His time (to us, anyways) to reveal Satan. Logically it makes sense. Why tempt or unsettle the fledgling Jews with ideas of a devil? Of course Satan is still in the Tanakh to those who look, but Satan was not an intricate part of those days.

In a sense, Satan was "winning" during the time of the Tanakh (1500BC-1BC). Satan had no real need to actively wreak havoc on the people of the earth, because he had already planted the seed of sin in Adam and Eve and those two passed it on to us. It was not until the Word of God came upon this world and showed all the people of the world that there is means of salvation from sin that Satan had to become a vigorously active force in this world.
 
There is not a god of good and a god of evil in some eternal struggle for power. King Cyrus was admonished for such thinking in Isaiah 45.

There is only Yahweh He creates the good and the evil the light and dark. Though He does on occasion turn some over to their own lusts just as the 'biography' shown by Pard tells us. But Satan will be punished and sent to a place prepared for him and his angels just as some here will be.

Interesting too for the ones believing satan lives in some underworld in the earth. Look where he falls from.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
To all my apologies for stepping over the line.

Thanks to the moderators for keeping an even playing field.

Sin cerley Craig
 
I think we have to be careful about putting words into Gods mouth as to why he does this or that.
The serpent was in the garden of eden, that was pretty self-explanatory. So are the scriptures in Job and on lucifer.

Do people need more?

Demons are also mentioned in the OT as false spirits.


PS. And as already mentioned, if you look at the purpose of the books of the OT, a lot more becomes clear. Most are history books or books of prophecy. Satan was mentioned when he was relevent. The NT is more focused on how to be a christian.
 
Why is there no mention of satan or the devil in Abraham's lifetime ?

Why is there no mention of the devil or satan in the first five books of the Bible ?

Besides the book of Job there is no mention of the devil or satan any where in the old testament which spans 4,000
years.

Abraham , Isaac, Jacob, Israel, King David never mention the devil or satan why?

Signed Confused
I'm not quite sure of your point here. It took the revelation of the NT to understand much of the OT. The 2 must be studied together. Are you trying to infer that because YOU feel that Satan is not mentioned he does not exist? There is no mention of Jesus Christ in Abraham's life either unless you want to look at types and shadows, the same types and shadows exist for Satan. It's your turn to answer some questions.
Why is there no mention of Jesus Christ in Abraham's lifetime?
Why is there no mention of Jesus Christ in the first 5 books?
Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Israel, King David never mention Jesus Christ, why?
Westtexas
 
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