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Bible Study Help! What does this mean....

wondering

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There is some question as to what Romans 5:12-14 is stating.

I've decided to stop using the NASB but will post those verses in both the NASB and the NLT.


ROMANS 5:12-14 NASB
12Therefore, just as through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men, because all sinned—
13for until the Law sin was in the world, but sin is not imputed when there is no law.
14Nevertheless death reigned from Adam until Moses, even over those who had not sinned in the likeness of the offense of Adam, who is a type of Him who was to come.


ROMANS 5:12-14 NLT
12When Adam sinned, sin entered the world. Adam’s sin brought death, so death spread to everyone, for everyone sinned.
13Yes, people sinned even before the law was given. But it was not counted as sin because there was not yet any law to break.
14Still, everyone died—from the time of Adam to the time of Moses—even those who did not disobey an explicit commandment of God, as Adam did. Now Adam is a symbol, a representation of Christ, who was yet to come.


This is the question at hand.....

1. Was sin imputed to man before The Law came into being?

Imputed:

Theology. to attribute (righteousness, guilt, etc.) to a person or persons vicariously; ascribe as derived from another.



Simply put, in my understanding, to impute means to blame me for someone else's sin.

Are we blamed (held guilty) for Adam's sin....
or do we just suffer from the effects of it.

2. What are the effects of it?


Quantrill JLB for_his_glory
All are welcomed to comment....
 

Bob Carabbio

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Are we blamed (held guilty) for Adam's sin....
Nope. Everybody is guilty for THEIR OWN SIN (Deut 24:16)
or do we just suffer from the effects of it.
The effects of Adam's sin were primarily environmental. The Ground was CURSED, and the Serpent was CURSED, but Adam and Eve were NOT cursed. The Creation was made subject to "Vanity" (negative entropy) (Rom 8:20).
 
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There is some question as to what Romans 5:12-14 is stating.

I've decided to stop using the NASB but will post those verses in both the NASB and the NLT.


ROMANS 5:12-14 NASB
12Therefore, just as through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men, because all sinned—
13for until the Law sin was in the world, but sin is not imputed when there is no law.
14Nevertheless death reigned from Adam until Moses, even over those who had not sinned in the likeness of the offense of Adam, who is a type of Him who was to come.


ROMANS 5:12-14 NLT
12When Adam sinned, sin entered the world. Adam’s sin brought death, so death spread to everyone, for everyone sinned.
13Yes, people sinned even before the law was given. But it was not counted as sin because there was not yet any law to break.
14Still, everyone died—from the time of Adam to the time of Moses—even those who did not disobey an explicit commandment of God, as Adam did. Now Adam is a symbol, a representation of Christ, who was yet to come.


This is the question at hand.....

1. Was sin imputed to man before The Law came into being?

Imputed:

Theology. to attribute (righteousness, guilt, etc.) to a person or persons vicariously; ascribe as derived from another.



Simply put, in my understanding, to impute means to blame me for someone else's sin.

Are we blamed (held guilty) for Adam's sin....
or do we just suffer from the effects of it.

2. What are the effects of it?


Quantrill JLB for_his_glory
All are welcomed to comment....
Yes, I think I understand what you are asking in 1 and 2, but did you read:

Adam Clarke Commentary

Verse Romans 5:12 (NAS)

12 Therefore, just as through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men, because all sinned;
Romans 5:12. Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world — From this verse, to the conclusion of the chapter, the apostle produces a strong argument to prove that, as all mankind stood in need of the grace of God in Christ to redeem them from their sins, so this grace has been afforded equally to all, both Jews and Gentiles.


Dr. Taylor has given the following analysis of the apostle's mode of argumentation. The argument stands thus:-"The consequences of Christ's obedience extend as far as the consequences of Adam's disobedience. The consequences of Adam's disobedience extend to all mankind; and therefore, so do the consequences of Christ's obedience. Now, if the Jews will not allow the Gentiles any interest in Abraham, as not being naturally descended from him, yet they must own that the Gentiles are the descendants of Adam, as well as themselves; and being all equally involved in the consequences of his sin, from which" (as far as the death of the body is concerned) "they shall all equally be released at the resurrection, through the free gift of God, therefore they could not deny the Gentiles a share in all the other blessings included in the same gift."

This argument, besides proving the main point, goes to show:

1. That the grace of God in the Gospel abounds beyond, or very far exceeds, the mere reversing of the sufferings brought upon mankind by Adam's one offence; as it bestows a vast surplusage of blessings which have no relation to that offence, but to the many offences which mankind have committed, and to the exuberance of the Divine grace.

2. To show how justly the Divine grace is founded on the obedience of Christ, in correspondence to the dispensation Adam was under, and to the consequences of his disobedience: if this disobedience involved all mankind in death, it is proper that the obedience of Christ should be the cause not only of reversing that death to all mankind, but also of other blessings which God should see fit (through him) to bestow on the world.

3. It serves to explain, and set in a clear view, the difference between the law and grace. It was the law which, for Adam's one transgression, subjected him and his posterity, as included in him when he transgressed, to death, without hopes of a revival. It is grace which restores all men to life at the resurrection; and, over and above that, has provided a gracious dispensation for the pardon of their sins; for reducing them to obedience; for guarding them against temptations; supplying them with strength and comfort; and for advancing them to eternal life. This would give the attentive Jew a just notion of the law which himself was under, and under which he was desirous of bringing the Gentiles.

The order in which the apostle handles this argument is this:-

1. He affirms that death passed upon all men by Adam's one transgression, Romans 5:12 (NAS)

12 Therefore, just as through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men, because all sinned;
Romans 5:12.


2. He proves this, Romans 5:13 (NAS)

13 for until the Law sin was in the world, but sin is not imputed when there is no law.
Romans 5:13; Romans 5:14 (NAS)
14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam until Moses, even over those who had not sinned in the likeness of the offense of Adam, who is a type of Him who was to come.
Click link to access powerful study resources in a new window.
Romans 5:14:



3. He affirms there is a correspondence between Adam and Christ; or between the παραπτωμα, offence, and the χαρισμα, free gift, Romans 5:14 (NAS)

14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam until Moses, even over those who had not sinned in the likeness of the offense of Adam, who is a type of Him who was to come.
Romans 5:14.

Love, Walter
 
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I think one old school term is Adamic sin, perhaps? Original sin, most definitely. anyway...

adam and eve brought sin onto humanity, and really...onto the whole (now fallen) world. numerous Scripture verses deal with all humans being born into sin, no matter how innocent or helpless. and along with the curse of sin, one sees the law set up to at least curb behavior (even if not allowing for true, genuine, forgiveness+ redemption+ ongoing connection with God the Father...).

not good with addresses, but I recall elsewhere Paul -- who, as Saul, was a well heeled, well educated Jew -- writing about the law "bringing death" and such. deal is...

sins not being imputed, to me, simply means that in the absence of divinely ordained laws, God hated the sins going on, but the level of individual accountability seems to be much, much lower. with the law, God made it possible to cover sins with sacrifices and such, but it wasn't until Jesus' ministry and death and resurrection...especially the full atonement, at Calvary...

that the -1- individual who could possibly make a way for all of us born with a sin nature (adamic sin, sin nature) and into a fallen world, marred by sin...

could find full and true, ongoing forgiveness and relationship with God. while Paul writes that the lack of a law = sins not being imputed, Jesus' death and Resurrection made a way for those who believe upon Him to (to pull a Pentecostalism...) "plea the Blood of Jesus," and stand before God covered in His imputed righteousness.

or something like that. I'm caffeinated, clearly. :)
 

JLB

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Was sin imputed to man before The Law came into being?

Yes absolutely sin was imputed to man before the law of Moses was added, because of the law of sin and death.

Disobedience to God is sin.

Therefore, just as through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men, because all sinned—
Romans 5:12

  • through one man sin entered the world,
  • and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men,
  • because all sinned

If all sinned, then obviously there sin was imputed to them, because death, the result of sin and the proof there was/is a law in place, before the law of Moses was added.


Paul is teaching a principle to the Church at Rome which had a large Jewish contingent there.

Paul tried to teach Jews first, to develop a natural group of teachers that could teach the Gentiles.


Paul is wanting them to understand that there indeed was and always will be the law of sin and death, which wasn’t written in stone, like the law of Moses but was learned by having a relationship with the Lord In which He teaches us directly; this is living from the tree of life, by every word that proceeds out of His mouth, which produces faith in us when we hear Him.


Learning good and evil, from any other source is death, because only God’s word, His voice produces both faith, as well as imparts grace;
the ability to obey what we have heard.


This is the way Abraham learned God’s eternal laws and commandments; by faith, by walking with the Lord in His presence and learning directly from the Lord through covenant relationship.


because Abraham obeyed My voice and kept My charge, My commandments, My statutes, and My laws.” Genesis 26:5


Nw we have Hs laws and commandments written on our heart and mind, in which the Spirit, the Spirit of grace, empowers us to obey;
This is called the obedience of faith, at it is what the entire book of Romans is contextually framed in.


But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith: Romans 16:26


  • But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin


But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death? I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin. There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death. Romans 7:23-8:2



  • For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.


The law of sin resides in our physical body, so Paul teaches us the we must not walk, that is to say, live our life according to the sinful desires of our flesh, but according to the Spirit, who dwells in our heart.



There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Romans 8:2


This is the main point, the pinnacle of the book of Romans, and the key to the Christian life; living our life by the Spirit, by the power of the Holy Spirit, rather than living our life to gratify the sinful cravings of our flesh.

Paul is making this point and teaching the Jewish community that they need a Savior and must walk in this same principle as the Gentiles.




JLB
 
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There is some question as to what Romans 5:12-14 is stating.

I've decided to stop using the NASB but will post those verses in both the NASB and the NLT.


ROMANS 5:12-14 NASB
12Therefore, just as through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men, because all sinned—
13for until the Law sin was in the world, but sin is not imputed when there is no law.
14Nevertheless death reigned from Adam until Moses, even over those who had not sinned in the likeness of the offense of Adam, who is a type of Him who was to come.


ROMANS 5:12-14 NLT
12When Adam sinned, sin entered the world. Adam’s sin brought death, so death spread to everyone, for everyone sinned.
13Yes, people sinned even before the law was given. But it was not counted as sin because there was not yet any law to break.
14Still, everyone died—from the time of Adam to the time of Moses—even those who did not disobey an explicit commandment of God, as Adam did. Now Adam is a symbol, a representation of Christ, who was yet to come.


This is the question at hand.....

1. Was sin imputed to man before The Law came into being?

Imputed:

Theology. to attribute (righteousness, guilt, etc.) to a person or persons vicariously; ascribe as derived from another.



Simply put, in my understanding, to impute means to blame me for someone else's sin.

Are we blamed (held guilty) for Adam's sin....
or do we just suffer from the effects of it.

2. What are the effects of it?


Quantrill JLB for_his_glory
All are welcomed to comment....
Also, Romans 5:12 (NAS)
12 Therefore, just as through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men, because all sinned—
Click link to access powerful study resources in a new window.
Romans 5:12. Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world — From this verse, to the conclusion of the chapter, the apostle produces a strong argument to prove that, as all mankind stood in need of the grace of God in Christ to redeem them from their sins, so this grace has been afforded equally to all, both Jews and Gentiles.

Dr. Taylor has given the following analysis of the apostle's mode of argumentation. The argument stands thus:-"The consequences of Christ's obedience extend as far as the consequences of Adam's disobedience. The consequences of Adam's disobedience extend to all mankind; and therefore, so do the consequences of Christ's obedience. Now, if the Jews will not allow the Gentiles any interest in Abraham, as not being naturally descended from him, yet they must own that the Gentiles are the descendants of Adam, as well as themselves; and being all equally involved in the consequences of his sin, from which" (as far as the death of the body is concerned) "they shall all equally be released at the resurrection, through the free gift of God, therefore they could not deny the Gentiles a share in all the other blessings included in the same gift."

This argument, besides proving the main point, goes to show:

1. That the grace of God in the Gospel abounds beyond, or very far exceeds, the mere reversing of the sufferings brought upon mankind by Adam's one offence; as it bestows a vast surplusage of blessings which have no relation to that offence, but to the many offences which mankind have committed, and to the exuberance of the Divine grace.

2. To show how justly the Divine grace is founded on the obedience of Christ, in correspondence to the dispensation Adam was under, and to the consequences of his disobedience: if this disobedience involved all mankind in death, it is proper that the obedience of Christ should be the cause not only of reversing that death to all mankind, but also of other blessings which God should see fit (through him) to bestow on the world.

3. It serves to explain, and set in a clear view, the difference between the law and grace. It was the law which, for Adam's one transgression, subjected him and his posterity, as included in him when he transgressed, to death, without hopes of a revival. It is grace which restores all men to life at the resurrection; and, over and above that, has provided a gracious dispensation for the pardon of their sins; for reducing them to obedience; for guarding them against temptations; supplying them with strength and comfort; and for advancing them to eternal life. This would give the attentive Jew a just notion of the law which himself was under, and under which he was desirous of bringing the Gentiles.
 

WIP

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The Ground was CURSED, and the Serpent was CURSED, but Adam and Eve were NOT cursed.
But, isn't this a curse on Adam and Eve?

To the woman He said:
“I will greatly multiply your sorrow and your conception;
In pain you shall bring forth children;
Your desire shall be for your husband,
And he shall rule over you.”

Genesis 3:16 NKJV

Then to Adam He said, “Because you have heeded the voice of your wife, and have eaten from the tree of which I commanded you, saying, ‘You shall not eat of it’:
“Cursed is the ground for your sake;
In toil you shall eat of it
All the days of your life.

Both thorns and thistles it shall bring forth for you,
And you shall eat the herb of the field.
In the sweat of your face you shall eat bread
Till you return to the ground,

For out of it you were taken;
For dust you are,
And to dust you shall return.”

Genesis 3:17-19 NKJV
 

JLB

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But, isn't this a curse on Adam and Eve?

To the woman He said:
“I will greatly multiply your sorrow and your conception;
In pain you shall bring forth children;
Your desire shall be for your husband,
And he shall rule over you.”

Genesis 3:16 NKJV

Then to Adam He said, “Because you have heeded the voice of your wife, and have eaten from the tree of which I commanded you, saying, ‘You shall not eat of it’:
“Cursed is the ground for your sake;
In toil you shall eat of it
All the days of your life.

Both thorns and thistles it shall bring forth for you,
And you shall eat the herb of the field.
In the sweat of your face you shall eat bread
Till you return to the ground,

For out of it you were taken;
For dust you are,
And to dust you shall return.”

Genesis 3:17-19 NKJV

Which is carried on to the rest of humanity.
 

Bob Carabbio

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But, isn't this a curse on Adam and Eve?

To the woman He said:
“I will greatly multiply your sorrow and your conception;
In pain you shall bring forth children;
Your desire shall be for your husband,
And he shall rule over you.”

Genesis 3:16 NKJV

Then to Adam He said, “Because you have heeded the voice of your wife, and have eaten from the tree of which I commanded you, saying, ‘You shall not eat of it’:
“Cursed is the ground for your sake;
In toil you shall eat of it
All the days of your life.

Both thorns and thistles it shall bring forth for you,
And you shall eat the herb of the field.
In the sweat of your face you shall eat bread
Till you return to the ground,

For out of it you were taken;
For dust you are,
And to dust you shall return.”

Genesis 3:17-19 NKJV
OF course not!! It was done FOR THEIR SAKE (idle hands are the devil's worshop).
 

for_his_glory

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impute: ascribed to someone by virtue of a similar quality in another.

Christ's righteousness has been imputed to us so that we can be made righteous before God, by the righteousness of God, by His grace through Christ Jesus in justification we are sanctified by the sacrifice of Christ made for all who will believe by faith in Him.

Because of the similar sin of Adam, being disobedient, the sin of disobedience has been brought into the world as man walks in it, Romans 5"12-14. No one here on earth is excluded or without excuse for their own sins, not the sins of their fathers, but of walking in disobedience as Adam did. Deuteronomy 24:16; Exodus 34:7; Psalms 51:5; Ezekiel 18:19-20; John 9:1-3; Romans 3:23; 5:12-21; 6:23; Titus 3:5
 

for_his_glory

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OF course not!! It was done FOR THEIR SAKE (idle hands are the devil's worshop).
Do you think that when God created man and placed him in the garden that it was not done for His good pleasure for man to enjoy that which God created for him in the garden? God created everything for sustenance for man that he could enjoy that of what God created and provided for him. There was no such thing as idle hands being the devils workshop as man was not created with sin. God cursed Adam and Eve for their disobedience as now life passed unto death and man no longer had pleasure within the garden, but was cast out of it losing that close fellowship with God, Genesis Chapter 2-3. Adam's sin was disobedience which was then passed down to every generation as all fell short of the glory of the Lord. Not by Adams own sin that only he was held accountable for, but that sin had now entered into the world as many transgressed the law of life and death by partaking of the tree of good and evil.
 

WIP

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Do you think that when God created man and placed him in the garden that it was not done for His good pleasure for man to enjoy that which God created for him in the garden? God created everything for sustenance for man that he could enjoy that of what God created and provided for him. There was no such thing as idle hands being the devils workshop as man was not created with sin. God cursed Adam and Eve for their disobedience as now life passed unto death and man no longer had pleasure within the garden, but was cast out of it losing that close fellowship with God, Genesis Chapter 2-3. Adam's sin was disobedience which was then passed down to every generation as all fell short of the glory of the Lord. Not by Adams own sin that only he was held accountable for, but that sin had now entered into the world as many transgressed the law of life and death by partaking of the tree of good and evil.
I suspect being locked out of the garden was also a curse. It was a curse brought upon ourselves for our arrogant disobedience.
 

Randy

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There is some question as to what Romans 5:12-14 is stating.

I've decided to stop using the NASB but will post those verses in both the NASB and the NLT.


ROMANS 5:12-14 NASB
12Therefore, just as through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men, because all sinned—
13for until the Law sin was in the world, but sin is not imputed when there is no law.
14Nevertheless death reigned from Adam until Moses, even over those who had not sinned in the likeness of the offense of Adam, who is a type of Him who was to come.


ROMANS 5:12-14 NLT
12When Adam sinned, sin entered the world. Adam’s sin brought death, so death spread to everyone, for everyone sinned.
13Yes, people sinned even before the law was given. But it was not counted as sin because there was not yet any law to break.
14Still, everyone died—from the time of Adam to the time of Moses—even those who did not disobey an explicit commandment of God, as Adam did. Now Adam is a symbol, a representation of Christ, who was yet to come.


This is the question at hand.....

1. Was sin imputed to man before The Law came into being?

Imputed:

Theology. to attribute (righteousness, guilt, etc.) to a person or persons vicariously; ascribe as derived from another.



Simply put, in my understanding, to impute means to blame me for someone else's sin.

Are we blamed (held guilty) for Adam's sin....
or do we just suffer from the effects of it.

2. What are the effects of it?


Quantrill JLB for_his_glory
All are welcomed to comment....
In regard to death of the body to all- yes
In regard to judgment those apart from Christ whose guilt remains are judged according to what they have done as written in the book of life.
In regard to accountability that comes with light. Justice to the nations through the gospel message.
Here is my servant, whom I uphold, my chosen one in whom I delight; I will put my Spirit on him and he will bring justice to the nations.

Jesus -If I had not come and spoken to them, they would not be guilty of sin; but now they have no excuse for their sin.

Israel had the law which had curses and blessings. The world outside Israel lived with unrestrained sin in darkness and ignorance and with few exceptions their sins were left unpunished. God came to a point He was no longer allowing that condition to exist. Hence the light of the gospel message to all people which also has blessings and curses as the wrath of God on the wicked is part of the gospel message.


We all know good and evil and that came through the sin of Adam. We can be tempted by that knowledge.
 

for_his_glory

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I suspect being locked out of the garden was also a curse. It was a curse brought upon ourselves for our arrogant disobedience.
I believe it was God's curse upon Adam and Eve in the beginning of one loosing fellowship with God. If we walk in disobedience to God's commands then there is no fellowship and we are none of His own.
 

tdidymas

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There is some question as to what Romans 5:12-14 is stating.

I've decided to stop using the NASB but will post those verses in both the NASB and the NLT.


ROMANS 5:12-14 NASB
12Therefore, just as through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men, because all sinned—
13for until the Law sin was in the world, but sin is not imputed when there is no law.
14Nevertheless death reigned from Adam until Moses, even over those who had not sinned in the likeness of the offense of Adam, who is a type of Him who was to come.


ROMANS 5:12-14 NLT
12When Adam sinned, sin entered the world. Adam’s sin brought death, so death spread to everyone, for everyone sinned.
13Yes, people sinned even before the law was given. But it was not counted as sin because there was not yet any law to break.
14Still, everyone died—from the time of Adam to the time of Moses—even those who did not disobey an explicit commandment of God, as Adam did. Now Adam is a symbol, a representation of Christ, who was yet to come.


This is the question at hand.....

1. Was sin imputed to man before The Law came into being?

Imputed:

Theology. to attribute (righteousness, guilt, etc.) to a person or persons vicariously; ascribe as derived from another.



Simply put, in my understanding, to impute means to blame me for someone else's sin.

Are we blamed (held guilty) for Adam's sin....
or do we just suffer from the effects of it.

2. What are the effects of it?


Quantrill JLB for_his_glory
All are welcomed to comment....
It might mean both, but here is how I see it:
Adam's sin got him "disconnected" from God spiritually. That is, the Spirit left him such that he was no longer guided or powerfully influenced by the Spirit. And the effect is that the whole human race is born in that disconnected condition, which is the essence of the sinful nature. In order to get "reconnected" by the indwelling Spirit, we must trust Christ according to the gospel message, which directs our life toward God.

Therefore, the principle of sin is imputed to the whole human race because Adam sinned, and yet, the principle of sin in operation in every person is the effect of Adam's sin. So my understanding is that we're all guilty because Adam sinned, and because we are born with the sin nature. I don't see that I personally am blamed for Adam's specific sin. I'm culpable for my own sin which I committed as a result of being born with the sin nature.

"Through one man sin entered the world" - that is, the sinful nature is instilled in every person born of Adam and Eve. And this is proven by the fact that everyone sins, and everyone dies. The sinful nature is not something foreign to human nature that is infused into it because of Adam's sin. Rather, it is inherent in human nature that has fallen from being connected to God by the indwelling Spirit, and therefore fallen from spiritual righteousness.

So, is your question: why does Paul say that sin is not imputed where there is no law? That statement appears as a hypothesis that if people don't know they are sinning (because they don't know of a law they are breaking), that they are not punished for the sins they are committing, thus "not imputed." Yet in contrast, he says "nevertheless, death reigned from Adam to Moses," which is proof that death as a consequence of Adam's sin is a reality, regardless of there not being a written law that people knew they were breaking. I take his mention of Moses as meaning written law, although there was likely verbal and ethical laws that were passed down the generations.

And yet, a law really did exist that wasn't yet written. After Cain killed Abel, he already knew what he had done was wrong and against God's will, proven by the fact that he lied when asked where his brother was; even though no law against murder had been written or given verbally. That law was written in his conscience, so he did feel the guilt of his sin. He also knew his sin was worthy of death, since he said "anyone who finds me will kill me" (in which he also understood vengeance).

I hope this helps.
 

wondering

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It might mean both, but here is how I see it:
Adam's sin got him "disconnected" from God spiritually. That is, the Spirit left him such that he was no longer guided or powerfully influenced by the Spirit. And the effect is that the whole human race is born in that disconnected condition, which is the essence of the sinful nature. In order to get "reconnected" by the indwelling Spirit, we must trust Christ according to the gospel message, which directs our life toward God.

Therefore, the principle of sin is imputed to the whole human race because Adam sinned, and yet, the principle of sin in operation in every person is the effect of Adam's sin. So my understanding is that we're all guilty because Adam sinned, and because we are born with the sin nature. I don't see that I personally am blamed for Adam's specific sin. I'm culpable for my own sin which I committed as a result of being born with the sin nature.

"Through one man sin entered the world" - that is, the sinful nature is instilled in every person born of Adam and Eve. And this is proven by the fact that everyone sins, and everyone dies. The sinful nature is not something foreign to human nature that is infused into it because of Adam's sin. Rather, it is inherent in human nature that has fallen from being connected to God by the indwelling Spirit, and therefore fallen from spiritual righteousness.

So, is your question: why does Paul say that sin is not imputed where there is no law? That statement appears as a hypothesis that if people don't know they are sinning (because they don't know of a law they are breaking), that they are not punished for the sins they are committing, thus "not imputed." Yet in contrast, he says "nevertheless, death reigned from Adam to Moses," which is proof that death as a consequence of Adam's sin is a reality, regardless of there not being a written law that people knew they were breaking. I take his mention of Moses as meaning written law, although there was likely verbal and ethical laws that were passed down the generations.

And yet, a law really did exist that wasn't yet written. After Cain killed Abel, he already knew what he had done was wrong and against God's will, proven by the fact that he lied when asked where his brother was; even though no law against murder had been written or given verbally. That law was written in his conscience, so he did feel the guilt of his sin. He also knew his sin was worthy of death, since he said "anyone who finds me will kill me" (in which he also understood vengeance).

I hope this helps.
Bingo!!
Thanks for wording it so well.
I agree with you 100%.

It seems to me the difficulty we've been having on a different thread is due to the fact that we conflate imputation with personal sin.

You've explained it perfectly


^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Tagging Quantrill ....
Hope he sees this post.
 

PeterJens

God bless you
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There is some question as to what Romans 5:12-14 is stating.

I've decided to stop using the NASB but will post those verses in both the NASB and the NLT.


ROMANS 5:12-14 NASB
12Therefore, just as through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men, because all sinned—
13for until the Law sin was in the world, but sin is not imputed when there is no law.
14Nevertheless death reigned from Adam until Moses, even over those who had not sinned in the likeness of the offense of Adam, who is a type of Him who was to come.


ROMANS 5:12-14 NLT
12When Adam sinned, sin entered the world. Adam’s sin brought death, so death spread to everyone, for everyone sinned.
13Yes, people sinned even before the law was given. But it was not counted as sin because there was not yet any law to break.
14Still, everyone died—from the time of Adam to the time of Moses—even those who did not disobey an explicit commandment of God, as Adam did. Now Adam is a symbol, a representation of Christ, who was yet to come.


This is the question at hand.....

1. Was sin imputed to man before The Law came into being?

Imputed:

Theology. to attribute (righteousness, guilt, etc.) to a person or persons vicariously; ascribe as derived from another.



Simply put, in my understanding, to impute means to blame me for someone else's sin.

Are we blamed (held guilty) for Adam's sin....
or do we just suffer from the effects of it.

2. What are the effects of it?


Quantrill JLB for_his_glory
All are welcomed to comment....
This got me thinking. I am not sure what Paul is getting at.
But then again how can a baby or child be guilty of sin before the age of responsibility?
Or how could a child be saved, counted as holy before the age of responsibility?
Paul says the believing parent is counted as the covering for the child. This is imputed righteousness, counted as.
So the child born into this world is imputed with sin, though in action they are not counted as sinning.

Death or the seed that leads to the path that leads to death is set by Adam through the knowledge of good and evil.
In a sense Adam never had an open relationship with God, because he did not know good and evil. Every person born outside faith, does not know grace as God gives it, because they are imputed as dead.

Jesus brought life which is imputed to children of believing parents.
Faith is imputed as righteousness, grace overflowing a multitude of failures and weaknesses.
When I have gone to funerals, sometimes despite someones life it is spoken of them being in heaven.
Others who are very affectionate towards the individual, even though they had no faith lives in the hope they are saved. Thankfully it is not mine to judge or know, I just praise the Lord for His grace and imputing life and righteousness to my life.

God bless you
 
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There is some question as to what Romans 5:12-14 is stating.

I've decided to stop using the NASB but will post those verses in both the NASB and the NLT.


ROMANS 5:12-14 NASB
12Therefore, just as through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men, because all sinned—
13for until the Law sin was in the world, but sin is not imputed when there is no law.
14Nevertheless death reigned from Adam until Moses, even over those who had not sinned in the likeness of the offense of Adam, who is a type of Him who was to come.


ROMANS 5:12-14 NLT
12When Adam sinned, sin entered the world. Adam’s sin brought death, so death spread to everyone, for everyone sinned.
13Yes, people sinned even before the law was given. But it was not counted as sin because there was not yet any law to break.
14Still, everyone died—from the time of Adam to the time of Moses—even those who did not disobey an explicit commandment of God, as Adam did. Now Adam is a symbol, a representation of Christ, who was yet to come.


This is the question at hand.....

1. Was sin imputed to man before The Law came into being?

Imputed:

Theology. to attribute (righteousness, guilt, etc.) to a person or persons vicariously; ascribe as derived from another.



Simply put, in my understanding, to impute means to blame me for someone else's sin.

Are we blamed (held guilty) for Adam's sin....
or do we just suffer from the effects of it.

2. What are the effects of it?


Quantrill JLB for_his_glory
All are welcomed to comment....
Could we argue that the first commandment, or law, of God was when he said to Adam, thou shalt not eat of the fruit of the tree of knowledge?

Would Adam have been the cause of sin entering the world if God hadn't put the forbidden tree in the garden?

And that verse says death happened to us from Adam into Moses.
What about after Moses? Death eased?

Genesis is always s curious narrative if we consider God is Omniscient. And he tells us he predestined , foreordained, everything. Even our lives.

Would we know God were it not for the fall?
The fall gets a bad rap for what separated us ftkmGod. But we're it not for that would we know God?

Just like Judas. He gets a bad rap for pointing Jesus out to the temple guards with a kiss on the cheek. And this led to Jesus' trial and crucifixion, which saved the world.
But, would this have happened without Judas playing his part?
 
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