Herman Bavinck

[Tenchi]

www.soteriology101.com - Provisionism

www.evangelicalarminians.org - Arminianism

www.reasonablefaith.org - Molinism

 

[electedbyHim]

www.soteriology101.com - Provisionism

www.evangelicalarminians.org - Arminianism

www.reasonablefaith.org - Molinism

Thank you but I dont believe the Arminian view is Biblical.

Been down that road before.

Grace and peace to you.

 

[Whatever]

Molinism is an attempt to provide a solution to the classic philosophical problems associated with God's providence, foreknowledge and the freedom of humanity. This view may be traced to the 16th century Jesuit theologian Luis de Molina - hence, the name Molinism. Specifically, it seeks to maintain a strong view of God's sovereignty over creation while at the same time preserving the belief that human beings have self-determined freedom, or libertarian free will.

Notice that Molinism starts with the belief in libertarian free will. Then it tries to fit it in with Scripture.

Provisionism is a modern theological system within Southern Baptist circles, particularly promoted by Leighton Flowers, which seeks to offer an alternative to both Calvinism and Arminianism. While not identical to Semi-Pelagianism, Provisionism shares striking theological similarities, especially in its denial of the necessity for a prior work of the Holy Spirit to effect any inner grace—whether regenerative or prevenient—to enable faith. Provisionism teaches, rather, that the Holy Spirit operates solely through an external influence, illuminating the truth of the gospel (externally), convicting of sin (externally), and drawing all people who hear (externally), making the gospel clearly understood without altering the individual’s inner nature or will, thereby leaving the response entirely to unregenerate human volition. (from Monergsm)

 

[Tenchi]

Molinism is an attempt to provide a solution to the classic philosophical problems associated with God's providence, foreknowledge and the freedom of humanity. This view may be traced to the 16th century Jesuit theologian Luis de Molina - hence, the name Molinism. Specifically, it seeks to maintain a strong view of God's sovereignty over creation while at the same time preserving the belief that human beings have self-determined freedom, or libertarian free will.

Notice that Molinism starts with the belief in libertarian free will. Then it tries to fit it in with Scripture.

Provisionism is a modern theological system within Southern Baptist circles, particularly promoted by Leighton Flowers, which seeks to offer an alternative to both Calvinism and Arminianism. While not identical to Semi-Pelagianism, Provisionism shares striking theological similarities, especially in its denial of the necessity for a prior work of the Holy Spirit to effect any inner grace—whether regenerative or prevenient—to enable faith. Provisionism teaches, rather, that the Holy Spirit operates solely through an external influence, illuminating the truth of the gospel (externally), convicting of sin (externally), and drawing all people who hear (externally), making the gospel clearly understood without altering the individual’s inner nature or will, thereby leaving the response entirely to unregenerate human volition. (from Monergsm)

There are few things more guaranteed to produce a Strawman version of the truth than a Calvinist describing views alternative to their own. If folks want a proper, accurate understanding of Provisonism, Molinism and Arminianism, they need to skip the Calvinist middle-man who always distorts these other soteriological perspectives.

 

[Tenchi]

Thank you but I dont believe the Arminian view is Biblical.

Been down that road before.

Grace and peace to you.

Well, it doesn't really matter what you do or don't find biblical. It only matters what Scripture and Reason dictate. And, as far as I'm concerned, in respect to these things, any of the three soteriological alternatives I cited are preferable to the craziness (aka mystery) of Calvinism.

 

[Whatever]

The Christian Faith: A Systematic Theology for Pilgrims on the Way

Cristianbook-dot-com and Amazon both have it 51% off. Still $34.29. It was written in 2010.
1056 pages. This is what Christianbooks says about it:
Prolific theologian Michael Horton's highly anticipated The Christian Faith: A Systematic Theology for Pilgrims on The Way represents his magnum opus and will be viewed as one of-if not the-most important systematic theologies since the final volume of Karl Barth's Church Dogmatics.

Douglas F Kelly Systematic Theology Volume 1

This one is even older 2008. $39.99 on Amazon - 640 pages.
He has 3 volumes: These are the hard back.
Volume One: The God Who Is: The Holy Trinity
Volume Two: The Beauty of Christ: A Trinitarian Vision - $27.49
Volume Three: The Holy Spirit and the Church. $31.82

 

[Whatever]

There are few things more guaranteed to produce a Strawman version of the truth than a Calvinist describing views alternative to their own. If folks want a proper, accurate understanding of Provisonism, Molinism and Arminianism, they need to skip the Calvinist middle-man who always distorts these other soteriological perspectives.

Where was the distortion?

 

[Tenchi]

Where was the distortion?

The fact that you either can't see, or won't see, the many distortions of the characterizations in the descriptions you offered illustrates what I wrote in my response to your last post. Almost nothing in those descriptions you gave would receive the assent of Molinists, Arminianism, or Provisionists.

 

[Whatever]

The fact that you either can't see, or won't see, the many distortions of the characterizations in the descriptions you offered illustrates what I wrote in my response to your last post. Almost nothing in those descriptions you gave would receive the assent of Molinists, Arminianism, or Provisionists.

So what? Nothing in your description would receive assent of Calvinists.
Guess we are just talking past each other and might as well give up.

 

[electedbyHim]

Well, it doesn't really matter what you do or don't find biblical. It only matters what Scripture and Reason dictate. And, as far as I'm concerned, in respect to these things, any of the three soteriological alternatives I cited are preferable to the craziness (aka mystery) of Calvinism.

You are entitled to your opinions and has no bearing on me.

Grace and peace to you.

 

[Tenchi]

So what? Nothing in your description would receive assent of Calvinists.
Guess we are just talking past each other and might as well give up.

No, you can simply let folks of differing views speak for themselves, citing their own descriptions and arguments, rather than the Calvinist Strawmen versions of their views.

And your tu quoque response is a classic logical fallacy of deflection.

 

[Tenchi]

You are entitled to your opinions and has no bearing on me.

Grace and peace to you.

Right. But this is a fact that cuts in both directions.

 

[Whatever]

No, you can simply let folks of differing views speak for themselves

Okay, when you write out a dissertation of those views on this forum, I won't argue against them. Until you do, I will use what I find online.

 

[electedbyHim]

Right. But this is a fact that cuts in both directions.

We both believe we have the "truth".

Always thought, once we are in His presence none of this will matter anyhow.

Human pride and ego gets the best of all of us wanting to be always right.

I do know we should stand and defend the truth.

Nobodys Theology is perfect.

Grace and poeace to you.

 

[Tenchi]

Okay, when you write out a dissertation of those views on this forum, I won't argue against them. Until you do, I will use what I find online.

Just go to the websites I offered. You'll find all you need when you want to quote what Provisionists, Armininans and Molinists actually believe rather than the tilted version of what they believe given by a Calvinist.