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Bible Study Holy Spirit & Holy Ghost... One in the same?

R

Relic

Member
Regarding the thread:
The three unforgivable sins... Advanced teaching.
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http://www.christianforums.net/viewtopic.php?t=24455&start=15&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=


This is the part of that thread which I replied to:
http://www.christianforums.net/viewtopic.php?p=285579#285579
ikester7579 said:
Are the Holy Ghost and the Holy Spirit different? Yes.

acts 2:4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

1cor 12:3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.

Here we see them work together.

The trinity is the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. They can be blasphemed and forgiven. The Holy Ghost was not given unto man until Christ arose. Therefore is for the new covenant, and is connected to it only. And is the reason it is not part of the trinity.
Click to expand...
Relic said:
You posed the question:
"Are the Holy Ghost and the Holy Spirit different?"

And your answer was: "Yes."


I don't agree with you. Your reasoning is all too confusing. Not to change the subject, but what's the difference between the Holy spirit and the Holy Ghost? Your explanation does not leave me settled well with your definition at all. :-?

Shall we start another thread on this matter, Or are there plenty of them already around the forums, but I just haven't seen them yet?


In the meantime, here is an excerpt from an article on the subject of Holy Spirit or Holy Ghost:

  • ... Holy Spirit and Holy Ghost? In the King James Bible, the basic Greek words for Holy Ghost are AGIOS PNEUMA. In the New American Standard Bible, New International Version, and in many other Bibles the same Greek words are translated as Holy Spirit. This means that both "Holy Ghost" and "Holy Spirit" come from the same basic Greek words. The expression "Holy Ghost" is the same as the "Holy Spirit." "Holy Ghost" is an older expression and "Holy Spirit" is newer. Both expressions are okay.

    Conclusion: There is no difference between the Holy Spirit and the Holy Ghost. The King James Bible is using older English. They both come from the same Greek words. ...

    source: http://www.neverthirsty.org/pp/corner/read2/r00625.html


Some additional links which agree that the Holy Spirit and Holy Ghost are interchangable in definition of terms:

The Holy Spirit, the Holy GhostThe Holy Spirit
The Work of the Holy Spirit in the Trinity
http://www.religion-cults.com/spirit/spirit.htm


Holy Ghost or Holy Spirit
http://www.learnthebible.org/q_a_holy_ghost_or_holy_spirit.htm


HOLY SPIRIT HOLY GHOST
Most people have heard of the Holy Spirit or Holy Ghost which is the Holy Spirit of GOD ... The Holy Spirit or Holy Ghost are one in the same. But, who or what is this Holy Spirit or Holy Ghost? The answer is as awesome as it is mysterious and is clearly explained in the Bible.... read the rest of article here:
http://www.christianityoasis.com/TempleHolySpirit/default.htm
Click to expand...


If anyone has a contribution to this thread, please do place it here. :)

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Are the Holy Ghost and the Holy Spirit different? Yes.

You gotta be kidding me. Next thing you know they're gonna be like Benny Hinn and claim that there are nine persons in the Trinity.

And that's the most retarded thing I've ever heard. The original Greek is the same for both English titles (hagios pneuma).

And as far as I know each Bible version has either 'Holy Ghost' or 'Holy Spirit' written althroughout. You'll never see them mixed in the same Bible translation. And Holy Ghost hasn't been used since the KJV. Ghost is an archaic word for 'Spirit'.
 
I say they are not the same.....

Holy Spirit: Power and essence of God. The messianic prophecy of Isa 11:2 clearly show that the Spirit of God as being 7 attributes...not idividuals.
Ghost: Spirit (not as defined above) as in soul (i.e. Casper the Ghost), a formless, shapeless cognitive entity...

A difference of opinion on 2 different meanings of the same word....

Spirit and Spirit.....

Main Entry: 1spir·it
Pronunciation: 'spir-&t
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English, from Anglo-French or Latin; Anglo-French, espirit, spirit, from Latin spiritus, literally, breath, from spirare to blow, breathe
1 : an animating or vital principle held to give life to physical organisms
2 : a supernatural being or essence: as a capitalized : HOLY SPIRIT b : SOUL 2a c : an often malevolent being that is bodiless but can become visible; specifically : GHOST 2 d : a malevolent being that enters and possesses a human being3 : temper or disposition of mind or outlook especially when vigorous or animated <in high spirits>
4 : the immaterial intelligent or sentient part of a person
5 a : the activating or essential principle influencing a person <acted in a spirit of helpfulness> b : an inclination, impulse, or tendency of a specified kind : MOOD
6 a : a special attitude or frame of mind <the money-making spirit was for a time driven back -- J. A. Froude> b : the feeling, quality, or disposition characterizing something <undertaken in a spirit of fun>
7 : a lively or brisk quality in a person or a person's actions
8 : a person having a character or disposition of a specified nature
9 : a mental disposition characterized by firmness or assertiveness <denied the charge with spirit>
 
I should have printed the definition of Ghost on the previous post....

Main Entry: 1ghost
Pronunciation: 'gOst
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English gost, gast, from Old English gAst; akin to Old High German geist spirit, Sanskrit heda anger
1 : the seat of life or intelligence : SOUL <give up the ghost>
2 : a disembodied soul; especially : the soul of a dead person believed to be an inhabitant of the unseen world or to appear to the living in bodily likeness
3 : SPIRIT, DEMON
4 a : a faint shadowy trace <a ghost of a smile> b : the least bit <not a ghost of a chance>
5 : a false image in a photographic negative or on a television screen caused especially by reflection
6 : one who ghostwrites
7 : a red blood cell that has lost its hemoglobin


Notice...not one definition that equates with "Spirit" as in a descriptive feature of God....

Isa 11:1 ¶ And there shall come forth a rod out of the stem of Jesse, and a Branch shall grow out of his roots:

Clearly Jesus as the Messiah....

Isa 11:2 And the spirit of the LORD shall rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the LORD;

God's Holy 7 faceted Spirit comes upon the Messiah....these are defined in the definition of "Spirit" in the previous post as attributes of God, and not a formless cognitive entity....

Isa 11:3 And shall make him of quick understanding in the fear of the LORD: and he shall not judge after the sight of his eyes, neither reprove after the hearing of his ears:

No where should "Ghost" come into play.....anywhere....
 
That's baloney. God is described as a God of many things in no different terms than the Spirit in Isa 11:2. The Holy Spirit is a definate person having his own functions and identity: "But when He, the Spirit of truth, comes, He will guide you into all the truth; for He will not speak on His own initiative, but whatever He hears, He will speak; and He will disclose to you what is to come. " (John 16:13)

But some thing like Ephesians 1:17 uses spirit (Little 'S') in the sense you are thinking of: "that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give to you a spirit of wisdom and of revelation in the knowledge of Him."

And there is a big difference between "a spirit" and "the Spirit".
 
cybershark5886 said:
That's baloney.

Your opinion....for what it's worth... :)

God is described as a God of many things in no different terms than the Spirit in Isa 11:2.

Uh huh......

Do you dispute that Isa 11 is a messianic prophecy?
Do you dispute that Isa 11:2 describes attributes of God and labels them as Spirit?
Do you dispute that Isa 11:2 that there are more than 1 spirits listed in Isa 11:2?
Do you dispute that the HS of God descended on Jesus as the Isa 11 verses predicted?

The Holy Spirit is a definate person having his own functions and identity: "But when He, the Spirit of truth, comes, He will guide you into all the truth; for He will not speak on His own initiative, but whatever He hears, He will speak; and He will disclose to you what is to come. " (John 16:13)

Trinitarian translators put "he" in there instead of "it" (as "it" can also be translated by the Greek word) to sqeue the translation to a trinitarian theme...the verse still can be used in a non-entity understanding.

But some thing like Ephesians 1:17 uses spirit (Little 'S') in the sense you are thinking of: "that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give to you a spirit of wisdom and of revelation in the knowledge of Him."

Trinitarian sqeue of the translation....

And there is a big difference between "a spirit" and "the Spirit".

Again, in a trinitarian translation, I would agree....Trouble is it needs to be tanslanted from a Hebraic stance....In that case, there is no capitol "S" in Spirit....
Click to expand...
 
George don't confuse the issue. We are specifically comparing the defintion of terms in realtion to the "HOLY" spirit and the "HOLY" Ghost, not just any spirit or any ghost.


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=============


pneu=ma - ghost, Holy Ghost

pneu=ma - spirit, Spirit, Spirit, spirits, spiritual



==============

ATS Bible Dictionary

HOLY SPIRIT OR HOLY GHOST

The third person in the blessed Trinity. He is said to proceed from the Father, and to be sent by the Father and the Son upon disciples, John 14:26 15:26; to be the Spirit of the Father, Matthew 10:20 1 Corinthians 2:11; and the Spirit of Christ, Galatians 4:6 Philippians 1:19.

That he is a real PERSON, and not merely an attribute or emanation of God, is clear from the numerous passages in the Bible which describes him as exercising the acts, thoughts, emotions, and volition of a distinct intelligent person. None other could be pleased, vexed, and grieved, could speak, console, and intercede, or divide his gifts severally to every one, as he will. So also, in Greek as in English, the personal masculine pronouns would be necessary.

That he is a DIVINE PERSON, equally with the Father, and the Son, is proved from his association with them in a great variety of acts purely divine; as in the work of creation, Genesis 1:2 Psalms 33:6 104:30. He is honored as they are in the baptismal formula, Matthew 28:19, and in the apostolic benediction, 2 Corinthians 13:14. He receives the name, 2 Corinthians 3:17, and exercises the attributes of God, Romans 8:14 1 Corinthians 2:10 6:19 Hebrews 9:14. He is prayed to as God, Revelation 1:4,5; sin against him is sin against God, Acts 5:3,4 Ephesians 4:30; and blasphemy against him is unpardonable, Matthew 12:31.

The WORK of the Holy Spirit is divine. Of old, he inspired the sacred writers and teachers, and imparted miraculous gifts. Under the Christian dispensation, he applies the salvation of Christ to men’s hearts, convincing them of sin, John 16:8,9; showing them "the things of Christ," illuminating and regenerating them, John 3:5 Ephesians 2:1. He is the Comforter of the church, aids believers in prayer, witnesses with and intercedes for them, directs them in duty, and sanctifies them for heaven.

Copyright Statement
These dictionary topics are from American Tract Society Bible Dictionary published in 1859. Public Domain, copy freely.

Bibliography Information
Rand, W. W. "Entry for 'HOLY SPIRIT OR HOLY GHOST'". "American Tract Society Bible Dictionary".
<http://www.studylight.org/dic/ats/view.cgi?number=T1008>. 1859.
--------------------------------------------------------------------

source: http://studylight.org/dic/ats/view.cgi?number=T1008

==============

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1 John 1:5-9
5 Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?

6 This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth.
7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
8 And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.
9 If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater: for this is the witness of God which he hath testified of his Son.

.
 
Trinitarian translators put "he" in there instead of "it" (as "it" can also be translated by the Greek word) to sqeue the translation to a trinitarian theme...the verse still can be used in a non-entity understanding.

Let's not try to anthropomorphize God. In any case the Spirit is personified, having specific functions. In that verse in John it speaks. As Relic pointed out the Spirit can also be pleased, vexed, grieved, could speak, console, and intercede, or divide his gifts severally to every one. The Holy Spirit is God, and is a distinct part of the Trinity, not a side effect attribute of Jesus' or the Father's divinity.

If we can't agree on that then I have no need to discuss this conversation with you.
 
While I believe that a ghost and a spirit may be two different things, I think when they say Holy Ghost it was just an earlier translation of Holy Spirit.
 
Relic said:
Regarding the thread:
The three unforgivable sins... Advanced teaching.
Goto page Previous 1, 2
http://www.christianforums.net/viewtopic.php?t=24455&start=15&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=


This is the part of that thread which I replied to:
http://www.christianforums.net/viewtopic.php?p=285579#285579
ikester7579 said:
Are the Holy Ghost and the Holy Spirit different? Yes.

acts 2:4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

1cor 12:3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.

Here we see them work together.

The trinity is the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. They can be blasphemed and forgiven. The Holy Ghost was not given unto man until Christ arose. Therefore is for the new covenant, and is connected to it only. And is the reason it is not part of the trinity.
Click to expand...
Relic said:
You posed the question:
"Are the Holy Ghost and the Holy Spirit different?"

And your answer was: "Yes."


I don't agree with you. Your reasoning is all too confusing. Not to change the subject, but what's the difference between the Holy spirit and the Holy Ghost? Your explanation does not leave me settled well with your definition at all. :-?

Shall we start another thread on this matter, Or are there plenty of them already around the forums, but I just haven't seen them yet?


In the meantime, here is an excerpt from an article on the subject of Holy Spirit or Holy Ghost:

  • ... Holy Spirit and Holy Ghost? In the King James Bible, the basic Greek words for Holy Ghost are AGIOS PNEUMA. In the New American Standard Bible, New International Version, and in many other Bibles the same Greek words are translated as Holy Spirit. This means that both "Holy Ghost" and "Holy Spirit" come from the same basic Greek words. The expression "Holy Ghost" is the same as the "Holy Spirit." "Holy Ghost" is an older expression and "Holy Spirit" is newer. Both expressions are okay.

    Conclusion: There is no difference between the Holy Spirit and the Holy Ghost. The King James Bible is using older English. They both come from the same Greek words. ...

    source: http://www.neverthirsty.org/pp/corner/read2/r00625.html


Some additional links which agree that the Holy Spirit and Holy Ghost are interchangable in definition of terms:

The Holy Spirit, the Holy GhostThe Holy Spirit
The Work of the Holy Spirit in the Trinity
http://www.religion-cults.com/spirit/spirit.htm


Holy Ghost or Holy Spirit
http://www.learnthebible.org/q_a_holy_ghost_or_holy_spirit.htm


HOLY SPIRIT HOLY GHOST
Most people have heard of the Holy Spirit or Holy Ghost which is the Holy Spirit of GOD ... The Holy Spirit or Holy Ghost are one in the same. But, who or what is this Holy Spirit or Holy Ghost? The answer is as awesome as it is mysterious and is clearly explained in the Bible.... read the rest of article here:
http://www.christianityoasis.com/TempleHolySpirit/default.htm
Click to expand...


If anyone has a contribution to this thread, please do place it here. :)

.

.
Click to expand...

The Holy Spirit is the Holy Ghost of Jesus Christ as he tells us in John 14:20, Paul tells us in 2 Corinthians 13:5, and all born again Christians know. Once we are born again of the Holy Spirit, we know what Jesus means in John 6:53-63 and it's not eating bread that gives us eternal life. :roll: Jesus has replaced the manna from heaven as our earthly food because as he tells us in John 6:63 "The Spirit gives life; the flesh counts for nothing."
 
Relic said:
George don't confuse the issue. We are specifically comparing the defintion of terms in realtion to the "HOLY" spirit and the "HOLY" Ghost, not just any spirit or any ghost.


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Click to expand...

Sorry...wasn't trying to confuse it....just wanted to point out that "Ghost" should be dropped, and the proper use of "spirit" used....
 
Relic said:
.

1 John 1:5-9
5 Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?

6 This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth.
7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
8 And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.
9 If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater: for this is the witness of God which he hath testified of his Son.

.
Click to expand...

Relic....you do know that your highlighted words are an addition to the original text don't you? It's called the Johannine comma....the entire verse 7 was added...trinitarian addition?
 
cybershark5886 said:
Trinitarian translators put "he" in there instead of "it" (as "it" can also be translated by the Greek word) to sqeue the translation to a trinitarian theme...the verse still can be used in a non-entity understanding.

Let's not try to anthropomorphize God. In any case the Spirit is personified, having specific functions. In that verse in John it speaks. As Relic pointed out the Spirit can also be pleased, vexed, grieved, could speak, console, and intercede, or divide his gifts severally to every one. The Holy Spirit is God, and is a distinct part of the Trinity, not a side effect attribute of Jesus' or the Father's divinity.

If we can't agree on that then I have no need to discuss this conversation with you.
Click to expand...

Fine with me....we will not agree on a co equal trinity....
 
Relic....you do know that your highlighted words are an addition to the original text don't you? It's called the Johannine comma....the entire verse 7 was added...trinitarian addition?

That may be true, but nonetheless the doctrine is supported. But the claim that the Johannine comma was an addition has not been clearly substantiaited. Just because the later Alexandrian texts did not contain the verse does not mean that it did not exist before then. Our earliest known witness to the reading is St. Cyprian (200-258 A.D.) who quoted the verse in one of his works.
 
cybershark5886 said:
Relic....you do know that your highlighted words are an addition to the original text don't you? It's called the Johannine comma....the entire verse 7 was added...trinitarian addition?

That may be true, but nonetheless the doctrine is supported. But the claim that the Johannine comma was an addition has not been clearly substantiaited. Just because the later Alexandrian texts did not contain the verse does not mean that it did not exist before then. Our earliest known witness to the reading is St. Cyprian (200-258 A.D.) who quoted the verse in one of his works.
Click to expand...

cybershark5886,

Thank you for this input. I read up on the Johannine comma in regards to verse 7 last night, and found there is much bickering over whether it should or should not be included in the text of 1 John 1:5-8 or in the "margin" of some other publications thereafter. [/b]


Google search results bring up so much on the topic.
http://search.yahoo.com/search?ei=UTF-8 ... he+same%3F

One particular discussion on the Johannine comma that was of interest to me is here at the theologyweb.com:
http://www.theologyweb.com/campus/showthread.php?t=7305

I tend to agree with the post over there made way back in July 16th 2003 said:
"It's counterproductive to argue for the Trinity from such a tenuous foundation as the Comma. Why do it, when there is such overwhelming proof in undisputed parts of the NT? Metzger himself points out in some of this evidence in his interview in Lee Strobel's book The Case for Christ.
"
Click to expand...

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cybershark5886 said:
Relic....you do know that your highlighted words are an addition to the original text don't you? It's called the Johannine comma....the entire verse 7 was added...trinitarian addition?

That may be true, but nonetheless the doctrine is supported. But the claim that the Johannine comma was an addition has not been clearly substantiaited. Just because the later Alexandrian texts did not contain the verse does not mean that it did not exist before then. Our earliest known witness to the reading is St. Cyprian (200-258 A.D.) who quoted the verse in one of his works.
Click to expand...

I think it is widely supported that it is "not" in the earliest Greek texts...but a later addition...and the doctrine is not supported...you can't add text to support a presupposed doctrine...
 
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Now, shall we get back on topic of the OP,


The Holy Spirit and the Holy Ghost, one and the same?

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------





The new testament writings give many cross-references to the Holy Ghost as described in the Old Testament scriptures as the Holy Spirit. It is clear that the use of the words Holy Ghost and Holy Spirit written of in the Old and New testament scriptures are one and the same.

Some examples:

============

Hebrews 3:7
Wherefore (as the Holy Ghost saith, To day if ye will hear his voice,

Hebrews 3:7 is in reference to
Psalm 95:7
For he is our God; and we are the people of his pasture, and the sheep of his hand. To day if ye will hear his voice,

It was the Holy Spirit that lead the writer's expression to be put in the form of scripture.

Since, the New testament writing refers to the Holy Spirit , "as the Holy Ghost saith" we can be assured that by using this cross-reference that it confirms the fact; the Holy Spirit and the Holy Ghost are one and the same.

============

Matthew 3:11
I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:

Matthew 3:11 is in reference to
Isaiah 4:4
When the Lord shall have washed away the filth of the daughters of Zion, and shall have purged the blood of Jerusalem from the midst thereof by the spirit of judgment, and by the spirit of burning.


One of the many descriptions of the Holy Spirit is shown in the cross-reference. Clearly, the Holy Ghost written of in Matthew 3:11 is the same as the the spirit of judgment written of in Isaiah 4:4

This cross-reference also confirms the fact; the Holy Ghost and the Holy Spirit are one and the same.

============

Mark 1:8
I indeed have baptized you with water: but he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost.

Mark 1:8 is in reference to
Isaiah 44:3
For I will pour water upon him that is thirsty, and floods upon the dry ground: I will pour my spirit upon thy seed, and my blessing upon thine offspring:

Baptism is a pouring of the Holy Spirit upon the seed. We are the offspring of that seed (some being grafted). In using this cross-reference, It clearly shows us that the spirit which is referred to in Isaiah 44:3 is the same as the Holy Ghost written of in Mark 1:8

The cross-reference also confirms the fact; the Holy Ghost and the Holy Spirit are one and the same.

=================
Mark 12:36
For David himself said by the Holy Ghost, The LORD said to my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, till I make thine enemies thy footstool.

Mark 12:36 is in reference to
Psalm 110:1

Psalm 110:1
The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool.

The cross reference also confirms the fact; the Holy Ghost and the Holy Spirit are one and the same.

==============


I can provide plenty more, but I have not the time right now. There are 89 references to the words 'HolyGhost" in the Bible. I hope these few I have presented above have been of some assistance in confirming truth in scripture about the Holy Spirit / Holy Ghost.


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