Bible Study Holy Spirit & Holy Ghost... One in the same?

[Georges]

No Gabby....as I've tried every other way to explain it...I just tried to put it in simple terms you would understand....not sure if it worked... :

George, it is not a question of your having to choose between cartoons or Greek language. It is a question of truth.

Agreed....what I've stated is not a lie..it's just a concept you are not grasping...I'm trying to present it in the easiest terms...Surely, you know who Caspar is...well that's what the Holy Spirit isn't....

God is able to speak to me in terms that I can understand. No matter how simple. Telling me something that is not true, is not true whether you said in Greek or with animation. :-?

and in the last post of the night for me...I presented the Hebrew for Ghost and the Hebrew for Spirit....there is no mistake....the Hebrew for Ghost (Owb) is only used 17 times in the OT and always in a Spirit Entity situation (ie Saul and the witch). Owb is never used in a situation regarding Jehovah...Ruach (Spirit) is used a gazillion and never hints at being an Owb. Casper (Owb), Spirit of God (Ruach) is Isa 11:2......

I have a choice to make here. To believe Scripture, or to believe something else. When given a choice between God and anything else, I always choose God. I BELIEVE THE BIBLE.

Come on Gabby....I've presented it biblically.....you are not accepting it...I'm presenting Ghost and Spirit from the Hebrew perspective, you are choosing to use the Hellenist misunderstanding of the term....You Choose to believe what ever you want to...You can't argue the OT definitions I presented...and guess what? They are biblical....no where except in mistranslation is the Holy Ghost is implied as a person.

I believe that the ghost in these verses is the same thing as the word spirit.

It is....but ghost should not be used in the verses you use...MISTRANSLAITON....Get another Bible your's is failing you...

Gen 25:8 Then Abraham gave up the ghost,
Job 3:11 Why died I not from the womb? [why] did I [not] give up the ghost when I came out of the belly?

Both instances in the OT as you present are MISTRANSLATIONS...it should read SPIRIT....Look at the Hebrew for the verses...it says Ruach for both...not Owb....


Mat 1:18 Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost.

And that should be Spirit (Ruach) as the defined in Hebrew...not Greek...

Mat 3:11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and [with] fire:

Same situation...Holy Ghost...Should be Holy Ruach....not Holy Owb....

Mar 15:37 And Jesus cried with a loud voice, and gave up the ghost.

Same situation....

Gabby...your Bible version is not doing you any good service....as far as translation....

 

[Atonement]

Gabby...your Bible version is not doing you any good service....as far as translation

This is a Christian site, that was uncalled for and I believe it was a personal attack because Gabby understands it differently. Please don't turn this personal.

Georges,

I use the KJV, the NKJV and I use the Messianic Greek Bible, along with my Bible dictionary and concordance. I still also believe your wrong. It's the wording used that I believe confuses you. I would say take a course in some Greek and not be quoting here off the Internet but actually take a Greek course for higher education and understanding. You have pointed out many passages and for that I'm grateful, but when you read it in the Greek form the word στοιχείο appears over and over.. Once again the meaning is: Ghostlike which is that of a spirit.

 

[Atonement]

I've heard this type of debate before when one was trying to provide Scripture that the - soul and spirit - were different. Ghost, Spirit, Soul it all depends how it's used but all three are one and the same.

 

[John the Baptist]

Holy Spirit & Holy Ghost... One in the same?


Surely! It is the same invisible third person of the Godhead. One person is Spirit, & the others are documented by their self, as having an 'image' who we were patterned after..

---John

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Congrats John....I think you and are create the longest posts...this is the shortest one I seen you ever make... :D and for once I understand what typed...it is going to be a good day... :D

What in the world is that mumble jumble saying??? :wink: ---John
*************

Still...no matter how many definitions I post and supporting scripture...folks will still hold on to what has been proven questionable...John have you read the whole thread...your statement is 5 pages behind....

 

[Georges]

Gabby...your Bible version is not doing you any good service....as far as translation

This is a Christian site, that was uncalled for and I believe it was a personal attack because Gabby understands it differently. Please don't turn this personal.

I wasn't....his/her translation has an OT passage that states "gave up the ghost"....and "Ghost" is a bad translation for Spirit....I am every much a Christian as you are.....What is it with you?....You've had it in for me since you started....you don't have an answer for me so you start with the crap....are you the chosen hit man that kicks me off? The attack was on the translation, not on the person...so I'll accept your apology in advance...

Georges,

I use the KJV, the NKJV and I use the Messianic Greek Bible, along with my Bible dictionary and concordance. I still also believe your wrong.

Atonement....use your the above and prove me wrong....you can't.....whether you believe I'm wrong or not....

Disprove the difference between "Ruach" and "Owb"....

It's the wording used that I believe confuses you.

You've got that 180 degs...backward....that is you confusion, not mine.

I would say take a course in some Greek and not be quoting here off the Internet but actually take a Greek course for higher education and understanding.

You haven't proven me wrong.....what a ridculous thing for you to say...the same logic that kept Christianity down for 2000 years while the corrupt Church kept thier members in the dark..The internet provides the tools for education, the same as going to any school...

You have pointed out many passages and for that I'm grateful, but when you read it in the Greek form the word στοιχείο appears over and over.. Once again the meaning is: Ghostlike which is that of a spirit.

And that is your whole problem....you should be diagnosing scripture passages through Hebrew thought...not Greek thought...Ghost and Spirit are different definitions in Hebrew as seen in the applications I provided...Interpretationn of the NT Ghost/Spirit should be from a Hebrew baseline as well....YOU ARE NOT DOING THAT.......You are taking the Greek word for Ghost and applying it to the Hebrew OT....no can do....

Atonement....I don't know what your problem is...but I'd appreciate it if you got off my back....

 

[Georges]

I've heard this type of debate before when one was trying to provide Scripture that the - soul and spirit - were different. Ghost, Spirit, Soul it all depends how it's used but all three are one and the same.

No...they are not....read the whole thread again....I think I've pretty much proven that...I'm begining to think you had jumped halfway in....

It is very important that you research it from a Hebraic point of view.....If you don't...your legs are cut off from the get go....

Go to http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com and search Spirit, and Soul....they are not the same....tied together, yes....the same, no....

 

[Atonement]

Georges you have a PM, and WE WILL HANDLE this there..

 

[John the Baptist]

Holy Spirit & Holy Ghost... One in the same?


Surely! It is the same invisible third person of the Godhead. One person is Spirit, & the others are documented by their self, as having an 'image' who we were patterned after..

---John

Congrats John....I think you and are create the longest posts...this is the shortest one I seen you ever make... :D and for once I understand what typed...it is going to be a good day... :D

Still...no matter how many definitions I post and supporting scripture...folks will still hold on to what has been proven questionable...John have you read the whole thread...your statement is 5 pages behind....

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John here:
I just consider your 'posts' (mostly with the plural :robot: ) of the past. We haven't any common ground.

Yes, I looked over the 'thread'. I just skipped most of it from the same source. (compare Genesis 4:7) My remarks were the Bottom Line as I see it. 1 John 4:5-6. I added the fifth verse this time around, just for the forum to consider your 'material'.

But, yes, we all need to remember that the thread subject is Eternally the same! Never 5 pgs. behind or five pgs. ahead. The Holy Spirit & Spirit of God, and the Holy Ghost are the same third Person of the Godhead. And as I see it, one needs to be very careful with trivial Psalm 19:13 'posts' & blatant boasterous lifestyles & remarks! Matthew 12:31-32

 

[Atonement]

John thank you very much for your post. Georges has asked us to debate and to prove what we all have to say can be proven correct. Yet Georges believes he/she has proven to all of us that they are correct. No such thing. I showed him/her Greek language and we shared with him/her in Scripture. Being a Bible college grad. I should know this elementary stuff about the Bible. Anyway. I'm locking this thread for being reluctant. We can go on and on, but Georges won't open their eyes, and we surly won't try to open our eyes to his/her understanding..

Locked