Homosexuality and Obesity?

[Rick W]

So you would agree then, obesity is a dangerous and sinful lifestyle?

Without a bible study I would think any excessive indulgence is sinful.
Are you claiming homosexuailty is an excessive indulgence?

I don't agree with your comparison of obesity and homosexuality though. Nor can I find anything about obesity being an abonimation to God as I see about homosexuality. It's quite specific.

Anyway,
Is this the verse you're basing your argument on?

1Co 6:19 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?

 

[Solo]

my point is not to subvert the argument over homosexuality, my point is to bring to light the inconsistencies of the Chrsitian position. We see widespread condemnation of homosexuality on this site, many people opposing laws that would protect homosexuals as a minority because homosexuals make immoral choices and should not be defined as a minority. Yet they do not feel that laws protecting people from being discriminated against on the basis of being overweight are wrong. Basically, most Christians look to the obese and think "its unfortunate that they are over weight" but they stop there. They don't preach to them, tell them to change their ways, protest their funerals, oppose their rights to ordination ect ect.

Secondly, I am sure that some of the people on this site who are very overweight have preached against "the sin of homose xuality" and told me personally im going to hell. Yet they have not confronted their own sin of abusing and misusing their own body.

Your position is that those that live a sinful lifestyle should be guaranteed protections as a minority, and allowed to "fit in" without being told that their lifestyle is against God's judgement. I do not read where obesity is an abomination to God, but I do read where homosexuality is an abomination to God. Should we set apart murderers as a minority giving them special rights to continue their perversion of murder upon others? Should we also set apart pedophiles as a minority by giving them protections as they practice their perversions agains children? Should we also set apart adulterers as having special rights by giving them minority status, so that they too can continue their lifestyle of sin with protection from being judged sinful?

What a crock of undescribable matter too filthy to discuss on this forum. Homosexuality is very, very sick, and to want to continue in such a lifestyle of bondage shows the degenerate position of those that continue practicing it. What a crying shame that those that are practicing homosexuality are more intent on pleasure than they are concerned at pleasing God.

 

[AHIMSA]

I don't agree with your comparison of obesity and homosexuality though. Nor can I find anything about obesity being an abonimation to God as I see about homosexuality. It's quite specific.

Everytime we sit down and have a meal we pray to God and give him thanks. Jesus asks of God "give us this day our daily bread". The scriptures are clear that food has a sacred quality to it because it is so intristically tied to continuation of life. Likewise, sex is tied to the continuation and production of life.
Food exists to provide the sacred body that God has given us with sustenance, it exists to sustain our bodies so that we can continue to carry on God's gift of life and function to the best of our abilities.

Food is pleasurable in many instances to our taste buds, in the same sense, sex appeases our senses. However, to indulge in sex or to indulge in food for the purpose of pleasure, while disregarding the purpose of sex, pro-creation, or disregarding the purpose of food, sustenance, is to misuse and pervert those gifts which God has given us. This is what Augustine has labelled as evil, the perversion or degeneration of something that is good.

When we over indulge in food, or eat the wrong kinds of food to appease our senses, the harm to our bodies (again which are meant to be vessels of holiness) is obvious. Being seriously overweight can lead to numerous health problems, and the risk of heart attack and heart disease is significantly increased. Likewise, we are told that the homosexual lifestyle is dangerous to the body, posing a signigicant risk of disease.

The Bible makes no commentary on obesity, clearly because when it was written being dangerously overweight was not an issue. But it is clearly an abomination in the same sense as homosexuality because it is a misue of the body. People in third world nations are dying because they don't have enough food to eat, yet people in the developed world are dying because they are eating far too much, and far too much of the wrong things in excess.

I think I have drawn some very important parallels. Please do not subvert my argument with the claim that I am subverting a discussion of homosexuality. I am simply using the same logic and arguments which have been used against homosexuality, and seeing that many of the same points would apply to being overweight.

 

[Solo]

I don't agree with your comparison of obesity and homosexuality though. Nor can I find anything about obesity being an abonimation to God as I see about homosexuality. It's quite specific.

Everytime we sit down and have a meal we pray to God and give him thanks. Jesus asks of God "give us this day our daily bread". The scriptures are clear that food has a sacred quality to it because it is so intristically tied to continuation of life. Likewise, sex is tied to the continuation and production of life.
Food exists to provide the sacred body that God has given us with sustenance, it exists to sustain our bodies so that we can continue to carry on God's gift of life and function to the best of our abilities.

Food is pleasurable in many instances to our taste buds, in the same sense, sex appeases our senses. However, to indulge in sex or to indulge in food for the purpose of pleasure, while disregarding the purpose of sex, pro-creation, or disregarding the purpose of food, sustenance, is to misuse and pervert those gifts which God has given us. This is what Augustine has labelled as evil, the perversion or degeneration of something that is good.

When we over indulge in food, or eat the wrong kinds of food to appease our senses, the harm to our bodies (agains which are meant to be vessels of holiness) is obvious. Being seriously overweight can lead to numerous health problems, and the risk of heart attack and heart disease is significantly increased. Likewise, we are told that the homosexual lifestyle is dangerous to the body, posing a signigicant risk of disease.

The Bible makes no commentary on obesity, clearly because when it was written being dangerously overweight was not an issue. But it is clearly an abomination in the same sense as homosexuality because it is a misue of the body. People in third world nations are dying because they don't have enough food to eat, yet people in the developed world are dying because they are eating far too much, and far too much of the wrong things in excess.

I think I have drawn some very important parallels. Please do not subvert my argument with the claim that I am subverting a discussion of homosexuality. I am simply using the same logic and arguments which have been used against homosexuality, and seeing that many of the same points would apply to being overweight.

It is nice that you are able to speculate and justify the sin of homosexuality so that you can continue in such a lifestyle hoping that you can walk into heaven in front of the fat crowd, but reality has it that until you are born of God, you will continue in your sin, regardless regardless of what God is telling you to do in his honor and to his glory. Do a study on food and stature in the Bible and post legitimate scripture that backs your speculations on obesity and its equality with being an abomination as is homosexuality.

 

[AHIMSA]

Solo, if you don't think my comparisons hold any merit, I would suggest you demonstrate where my argument fails. And wouldn't you agree that someone who eats themselves into an unhealthy state is far more concerned with pleasure than they are with pleasing God? Or can we please God while we misue use our body?

The fact is that the Bible is not explicit on every single subject. For example, Christians are against abortion but no where does the Bible say "do not abort", neither does the Bible condemn birth control.

 

[Solo]

Solo, if you don't think my comparisons hold any merit, I would suggest you demonstrate where my argument fails. And wouldn't you agree that someone who eats themselves into an unhealthy state is far more concerned with pleasure than they are with pleasing God? Or can we please God while we misue use our body?

The fact is that the Bible is not explicit on every single subject. For example, Christians are against abortion but no where does the Bible say "do not abort", neither does the Bible condemn birth control.

The Bible does condemn homosexuality, so I suppose the we should start warning those that are caught up in that lifestyle to get out of it by being born of God, and allowing him to clean them up from the inside out.

 

[SputnikBoy]

Solo, if you don't think my comparisons hold any merit, I would suggest you demonstrate where my argument fails. And wouldn't you agree that someone who eats themselves into an unhealthy state is far more concerned with pleasure than they are with pleasing God? Or can we please God while we misue use our body?

The fact is that the Bible is not explicit on every single subject. For example, Christians are against abortion but no where does the Bible say "do not abort", neither does the Bible condemn birth control.

The Bible does condemn homosexuality, so I suppose the we should start warning those that are caught up in that lifestyle to get out of it by being born of God, and allowing him to clean them up from the inside out.

This also applies to those who serve wealth and harbor other highly esteemed 'pleasures' in their hearts. For this is ALSO an abomination to God (Luke 16:15). Seems to me that God doesn't have a special ax to grind with homosexuals that He doesn't with the rest of us. I'd say that there would be very few of us that were not 'abominable' to God at some time or another. In fact, anything less than perfection is abominable in God's sight. So please, anyone, don't bandy that word around to imply that homosexuals have total rights to it. They don't.

 

[Solo]

Solo, if you don't think my comparisons hold any merit, I would suggest you demonstrate where my argument fails. And wouldn't you agree that someone who eats themselves into an unhealthy state is far more concerned with pleasure than they are with pleasing God? Or can we please God while we misue use our body?

The fact is that the Bible is not explicit on every single subject. For example, Christians are against abortion but no where does the Bible say "do not abort", neither does the Bible condemn birth control.

The Bible does condemn homosexuality, so I suppose the we should start warning those that are caught up in that lifestyle to get out of it by being born of God, and allowing him to clean them up from the inside out.

This also applies to those who serve wealth and harbor other highly esteemed 'pleasures' in their hearts. For this is ALSO an abomination to God (Luke 16:15). Seems to me that God doesn't have a special ax to grind with homosexuals that He doesn't with the rest of us. I'd say that there would be very few of us that were not 'abominable' to God at some time or another. In fact, anything less than perfection is abominable in God's sight. So please, anyone, don't bandy that word around to imply that homosexuals have total rights to it.

Since the subject is whether or not homosexuality can be justified, that is the sin at present that is being discussed. When ever one who serves wealth and harbors other esteemed pleasures over God, they will be discussed. The key to the entire gammet is that a person must be born of God prior to any work can be started within the person. What ever sins are present, God will weed out as the person submits to the Lordship of Jesus Christ, and transforms his/her mind through the Word of God, no longer living in confomity with the world.

 

[SputnikBoy]

My post was intended to emphasize the word 'abomination' which I NEVER see applied to anything other than homosexuality.

 

[AHIMSA]

Since the subject is whether or not homosexuality can be justified, that is the sin at present that is being discussed

Solo, are you actually reading what this topic is about? Or do you just have a pre-written paragraph ready to paste whenever someone mentions homosexuality? This topic is not about justifying homosexuality, its about making comparisons between the sin of the homosexual lifestyle and the sin of an over weight lifestyle. I suggest you go back to the original post and read it again.

 

[Nocturnal_Principal_X]

….We see widespread condemnation of homosexuality on this site, many people opposing laws that would protect homosexuals as a minority because homosexuals make immoral choices and should not be defined as a minority. Yet they do not feel that laws protecting people from being discriminated against on the basis of being overweight are wrong.

Perhaps there are those on this website who look at things that way, however; homosexuals are asking for more then mere “protection.†For instance, asking for the right to marry has nothing to do with protection and if a Christian where to simple say “Yes they may be allowed to do that,†they would in fact be tolerating and condoning sin…Christians cannot and should not do that.

 

[Solo]

Since the subject is whether or not homosexuality can be justified, that is the sin at present that is being discussed

Solo, are you actually reading what this topic is about? Or do you just have a pre-written paragraph ready to paste whenever someone mentions homosexuality? This topic is not about justifying homosexuality, its about making comparisons between the sin of the homosexual lifestyle and the sin of an over weight lifestyle. I suggest you go back to the original post and read it again.

I've read the entire thread just fine. I am also reading between the lines, discerning the intent of some. Thanks for your direction. Remember Fat Homosexuals need our love too. :wink:

 

[SputnikBoy]

….We see widespread condemnation of homosexuality on this site, many people opposing laws that would protect homosexuals as a minority because homosexuals make immoral choices and should not be defined as a minority. Yet they do not feel that laws protecting people from being discriminated against on the basis of being overweight are wrong.

Perhaps there are those on this website who look at things that way, however; homosexuals are asking for more then mere “protection.†For instance, asking for the right to marry has nothing to do with protection and if a Christian where to simple say “Yes they may be allowed to do that,†they would in fact be tolerating and condoning sin…Christians cannot and should not do that.

So, it should perhaps be taken out of Christian hands and placed in the hands of God since He will be the ultimate Judge of us all.

 

[itoldyounoalready]

So I get it we punish, isolate, and shun all those that don't fit into categories like us, all those who are overwieght, gay, etc., and justify our hate with scripture,Something about this just doesn't say christian- like love, something seems awfully fishy here.

Have you ever considered that if you are able to find fault in almost every one else but yourself, and condemn every one else that there might be something wrong w/ you.

 

[Solo]

….We see widespread condemnation of homosexuality on this site, many people opposing laws that would protect homosexuals as a minority because homosexuals make immoral choices and should not be defined as a minority. Yet they do not feel that laws protecting people from being discriminated against on the basis of being overweight are wrong.

Perhaps there are those on this website who look at things that way, however; homosexuals are asking for more then mere “protection.†For instance, asking for the right to marry has nothing to do with protection and if a Christian where to simple say “Yes they may be allowed to do that,†they would in fact be tolerating and condoning sin…Christians cannot and should not do that.

So, it should perhaps be taken out of Christian hands and placed in the hands of God since He will be the ultimate Judge of us all.

If you are against Christians proclaiming the Word of God to individuals who are lost and are living a life that will harm them if continued, then you are lacking the Holy Spirit of God as he points you to do His work, which isn't unusual since you believe resting from work on the Sabbath to you is to stop working at your vocation instead of ceasing from your works as indicated in Hebrews 4.

 

[Rick W]

Obesity just isn't the moral issue that homosexuality is. Obesity is of one, homosexuality is the practice between two or more. I think ya'll have missed the fact that even Christ referred to the sexual joining of two as a union for the two become one.

Matthew 19:4 And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female,
Matthew 19:5 And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh
Matthew 19:6 Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.

This is a direct parallel to the saving work Christ did on the cross.

Ephesians 2:14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;
Ephesians 2:15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;

1 Corinthians 6:15 Know ye not that your bodies are the members of Christ? shall I then take the members of Christ, and make them the members of a harlot? God forbid.
1 Corinthians 6:16 What? know ye not that he which is joined to a harlot is one body? for two, saith he, shall be one flesh.

Is it little wonder that sexual union is so predominant in scripture as opposed to excessive indulgence?
We really need to compare apples to apples and oranges to oranges.

 

[Nocturnal_Principal_X]

So I get it we punish, isolate, and shun all those that don't fit into categories like us, all those who are overwieght, gay, etc., and justify our hate with scripture…

No that is not what is being said at all. All I stated is a Christian should not condone or tolerate sin. No where in doing that is it implied or mandated for one to “punish, isolate, or shun…or hate." A Christian should love one who is suffering, for we all are, from sin and try to lead them to Christ (and away from that sin) by building them up.

It is true that a Christian is not to *judge* another but that does not mean a Christian should: ignore, accept, condone, and/or tolerate a particular sin.

 

[peace4all]

Obesity just isn't the moral issue that homosexuality is. Obesity is of one, homosexuality is the practice between two or more. I think ya'll have missed the fact that even Christ referred to the sexual joining of two as a union for the two become one.

I find that statement to be generally misleading. Obesity is an issue from MANY outside influences. Diet, media, and even your own familly contribute to you being obese. When a parent raises a child, and that parent has a poor diet, and no excercise, their child seems to grow up like their parents, and become larger. Before a child can pick and choose their own foods (get a job and buy their on) they depend on their parents for sustanance. When teh parents provide sugars, sweets and good things to eat, then they are basically, making their child obese. THen, when the parent goes and buys a PS2 and an X-BOx, instead of a bike, and a frisbee, they are condoning the obese lifestyle.

It is funny, how in teh same verse BB uses to say that homosexuality is a "ABomination" it says we must murder homosexuals. I CONTINUE to see people quote that scriputre, but then say "god wants us to call them an abomination, but not kill them, EVEN THOUGH it says to.


And I have noticed this with other sins.

People that steal, can get married. People that Lie, and commit adultery can get married, or stay married after such things happen. People that murder and rape can all get married, they can all enjoy the financial benifits of marriage. HOWEVER, if your gay.....

Peopel are jsut using god/the bible to justify homophobia. It was used in the past to justify slavery, to justify racism, and it will continue to be used that way until we eventually live in a free society.

 

[Rick W]

peace4all,
You've missed the point that sexual relations, the union, is equated with the union of Christ, the two become one. This is basic biblical doctrine of which Jesus and others spoke. Obesity has no such doctrinal backing.

 

[AHIMSA]

But food is an important element in scripture. Again, as sex, it is tied to the very sustenance and continuation of life itself. Just because sexual relations are tied to Christ in scripture does not mean that food is not. I mean, Christ even broke bread and said "this is my body" and took wine and said "this is my blood". Obviously he is speaking in symbollic terms, but I don't think it can be denied that consumption of food holds a sacred function in the Bible, think of how many Old Testament laws center around food and the social customs that accompany a meal?

Many Christians have this notion that a sexual sin is somehow more vile, when in fact, sexual sins often have less obviousn negative affects.

Obesity is taking the body that God has given you as a gift and misuing it, often to the point of dying much earlier than if you had eaten properly! It is also misuing food, which scripture shows is also something sacred to us.

How is misuing our body to satisfy sensual pleasures not a serious sin, at least close in range to that of homosexuality? How is being obese and doing nothing to change it not living in a sinful lifestyle?