Homosexuality in Christianity

[westtexas]

actually i do. but the way we word it. some tell the gay men that he can stay gay all his life and not want to change yet enter into heaven simply because they dont act out their sin. that is where i'm coming from

Then I agree with you and have misunderstood at least a portion of some of your posts.I believe that there must be a desire to change, or there has been no repentance to begin with. However, if there is a TRUE desire to change, it does not happen overnight for some. I believe that even though we struggle with ANY thought, our Lord will give us the strength to resist. If the homosexual is TRULY trying to change and seeking the help of our Lord, regardless of how long it takes for this change, do you believe he will enter heaven?

Westtexas

 

[jasoncran]

yes.

that is where the church fails as most simply dont understand the lbgt at all. i dont understand the transgnenders at all.

i'm the only former bi at my church to my knowledge. the former gay man went to another chrurch where my brother attended and he also used to work with my wife.

 

[westtexas]

yes.

 

[stovebolts]

Hello H,

I want you to understand that I believe that he is not talking to the nation or society of Rome, but unto the saints, which are believers who need to be established. I can imagine that within Rome they being greek, held to many pagan beliefs. And Paul wanted to establish them with spiritual understanding.

I agree that Paul is addressing the Saints in Rome. However, I believe you may have misunderstood me by your reply. To clarify, Paul is speaking primarily to the gentile Saints in Rome in regard to previous nations and stories as understood within the Tanak.

To set the stage, we need to know that the the letter to the Romans was written around 58 AD. In 49 AD Claudius banished all the Jews from Rome, including Jewish Christians. It wasn't until the death of Claudius in 54 AD that the Jews started migrating back to Rome and as far as mainstream, Jews were not well received.

I would propose that gentile Christians already had a bad view of Jews with their funny habits (such as circumcision, Sabbath days etc [chapters 12-16, emphasis on 14]) and I believe he wanted to avoid what had occurred previously at Galatia which spurred the letter to the Galatians. In other words, as Jews and Jewish Christians moved back to Rome, It was Pauls desire to avoid possible conflicts between the two cultures and affirm the framework within the gospel as our reason for unity. Thus, Romans 1 affirms the stories within the Tanak while reflecting an immoral society within Rome as even, I believe Socrates, who wrote of the superior love between two men. Within Roman culture, homosexuality was common and accepted as readily as ordering a double cheeseburger at BK. However, Paul doesn't stop there for if Chapter one serves to show how Pagan cultures went astray with their idol worship (Think Zeus etc), then chapter two affirms that Israel was also in sin and though the Jews were to be a light to the nations, they too were still in Adam.

It is with this lens that I believe we can properly apply the context to Romans 1 thus the "They, Their and Them" is not only singular, but plural as representative of a people, not just a person which not only served by example to teach those in Rome, but also serves the ideologies within the many diverse cultures in today's world.


That being said, I do agree with much of what you have written, but figure that what I have written so far is more in line with how this particular conversation was started anyway.

With God's grace, we'll talk soon.

J

 

[turnorburn]

Is this what your looking for?

Leviticus 20:1 And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying,

20:2 Again, thou shalt say to the children of Israel, Whosoever he be of the children of Israel, or of the strangers that sojourn in Israel, that giveth any of his seed unto Molech; he shall surely be put to death: the people of the land shall stone him with stones.

20:3 And I will set my face against that man, and will cut him off from among his people; because he hath given of his seed unto Molech, to defile my sanctuary, and to profane my holy name.

20:4 And if the people of the land do any ways hide their eyes from the man, when he giveth of his seed unto Molech, and kill him not:

20:5 Then I will set my face against that man, and against his family, and will cut him off, and all that go a whoring after him, to commit whoredom with Molech, from among their people.

20:6 And the soul that turneth after such as have familiar spirits, and after wizards, to go a whoring after them, I will even set my face against that soul, and will cut him off from among his people.

20:7 Sanctify yourselves therefore, and be ye holy: for I am the LORD your God.

20:8 And ye shall keep my statutes, and do them: I am the LORD which sanctify you.

20:9 For every one that curseth his father or his mother shall be surely put to death: he hath cursed his father or his mother; his blood shall be upon him.

20:10 And the man that committeth adultery with another man's wife, even he that committeth adultery with his neighbor's wife, the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death.

20:11 And the man that lieth with his father's wife hath uncovered his father's nakedness: both of them shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.

20:12 And if a man lie with his daughter in law, both of them shall surely be put to death: they have wrought confusion; their blood shall be upon them.

20:13 If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.

20:14 And if a man take a wife and her mother, it is wickedness: they shall be burnt with fire, both he and they; that there be no wickedness among you.

20:15 And if a man lie with a beast, he shall surely be put to death: and ye shall slay the beast.

20:16 And if a woman approach unto any beast, and lie down thereto, thou shalt kill the woman, and the beast: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.

20:17 And if a man shall take his sister, his father's daughter, or his mother's daughter, and see her nakedness, and she see his nakedness; it is a wicked thing; and they shall be cut off in the sight of their people: he hath uncovered his sister's nakedness; he shall bear his iniquity.

20:18 And if a man shall lie with a woman having her sickness, and shall uncover her nakedness; he hath discovered her fountain, and she hath uncovered the fountain of her blood: and both of them shall be cut off from among their people.

20:19 And thou shalt not uncover the nakedness of thy mother's sister, nor of thy father's sister: for he uncovereth his near kin: they shall bear their iniquity.

20:20 And if a man shall lie with his uncle's wife, he hath uncovered his uncle's nakedness: they shall bear their sin; they shall die childless.

20:21 And if a man shall take his brother's wife, it is an unclean thing: he hath uncovered his brother's nakedness; they shall be childless.

20:22 Ye shall therefore keep all my statutes, and all my judgments, and do them: that the land, whither I bring you to dwell therein, spue you not out.

20:23 And ye shall not walk in the manners of the nation, which I cast out before you: for they committed all these things, and therefore I abhorred them.

20:24 But I have said unto you, Ye shall inherit their land, and I will give it unto you to possess it, a land that floweth with milk and honey: I am the LORD your God, which have separated you from other people.

20:25 Ye shall therefore put difference between clean beasts and unclean, and between unclean fowls and clean: and ye shall not make your souls abominable by beast, or by fowl, or by any manner of living thing that creepeth on the ground, which I have separated from you as unclean.

20:26 And ye shall be holy unto me: for I the LORD am holy, and have severed you from other people, that ye should be mine.

20:27 A man also or woman that hath a familiar spirit, or that is a wizard, shall surely be put to death: they shall stone them with stones: their blood shall be upon them.


turnorburn

 

[Mysteryman]

Hello H,

I want you to understand that I believe that he is not talking to the nation or society of Rome, but unto the saints, which are believers who need to be established. I can imagine that within Rome they being greek, held to many pagan beliefs. And Paul wanted to establish them with spiritual understanding.

I agree that Paul is addressing the Saints in Rome. However, I believe you may have misunderstood me by your reply. To clarify, Paul is speaking primarily to the gentile Saints in Rome in regard to previous nations and stories as understood within the Tanak.

To set the stage, we need to know that the the letter to the Romans was written around 58 AD. In 49 AD Claudius banished all the Jews from Rome, including Jewish Christians. It wasn't until the death of Claudius in 54 AD that the Jews started migrating back to Rome and as far as mainstream, Jews were not well received.

I would propose that gentile Christians already had a bad view of Jews with their funny habits (such as circumcision, Sabbath days etc [chapters 12-16, emphasis on 14]) and I believe he wanted to avoid what had occurred previously at Galatia which spurred the letter to the Galatians. In other words, as Jews and Jewish Christians moved back to Rome, It was Pauls desire to avoid possible conflicts between the two cultures and affirm the framework within the gospel as our reason for unity. Thus, Romans 1 affirms the stories within the Tanak while reflecting an immoral society within Rome as even, I believe Socrates, who wrote of the superior love between two men. Within Roman culture, homosexuality was common and accepted as readily as ordering a double cheeseburger at BK. However, Paul doesn't stop there for if Chapter one serves to show how Pagan cultures went astray with their idol worship (Think Zeus etc), then chapter two affirms that Israel was also in sin and though the Jews were to be a light to the nations, they too were still in Adam.

It is with this lens that I believe we can properly apply the context to Romans 1 thus the "They, Their and Them" is not only singular, but plural as representative of a people, not just a person which not only served by example to teach those in Rome, but also serves the ideologies within the many diverse cultures in today's world.


That being said, I do agree with much of what you have written, but figure that what I have written so far is more in line with how this particular conversation was started anyway.

With God's grace, we'll talk soon.

J

Hi Jeff

Correct me if I am reading you incorrectly here. But are you saying that Paul was warning them about those of Rome who participate in these acts ? If this is what you are saying, then I would disagree. This is not about a nation or a people, but about false brethren unaware.

The world is going to be the world no matter where you live. Be it Rome or in Corinth or in Philipy or in Galatia, or whereever.

What I think is a more full understanding here, is that there are those who will claim to be christians who will try and sway you . Either back towards the law or how sin is to be perceived. And Paul didn't want them to be swayed . Paul wanted to establish them in the faith, so that the deceivers of the world would not come in as false brethren, and or false teachers, and deceive them. Paul's main goal was to "establish" them in the faith.

And may I add - Paul was trying to convey, that it was the sinner that needs to be saved, and not those who think that they are not sinning.

talk to you soon - Bless

 

[awaken]

There is good news! Since homosexuality is a sin, it can be forgiven. For example, in 1 Timothy 1:9-10, notice that the list of sinners includes murderers, adulterers, and homosexuals. Just as unsaved murderers and unsaved adulterers can receive salvation, unsaved homosexuals can receive salvation as well. But after receiving salvation, people must turn away from committing murder and adultery. Therefore, after receiving salvation, people should turn away from committing homosexuality as well, and there are a number of ministries which are devoted to helping people get free from homosexuality. Remember, homosexuality is not genetic because if it were genetic then it would not be a sin.

Since God's view of homosexual activity is so clear, it is easy for us to determine how the Church should respond to homosexuality. The most important thing that the Church needs to understand is that God loves those who are ensnared in homosexuality (John 3:16), and therefore so should we. We should welcome them into our churches with open arms and open hearts, just as we should welcome all people into our churches. This doesn't mean that we condone homosexuality or any other sins, but it means that we should be displaying God's unconditional love rather than man's condemnation. Since it would be wrong for churches to ordain unrepentant, practicing murderers and unrepentant, practicing adulterers, then it would also be wrong for churches to ordain unrepentant, practicing homosexuals (1 Timothy 1:9-10). In addition, marriage is always between a man and a woman throughout the New Testament, and homosexuality is always denounced. Therefore, whether we like it or not, churches have no Scriptural precedent, no Scriptural command, and no Scriptural authority for performing homosexual marriages or same-sex unions. Personally, if the Bible said that a homosexual marriage is just as proper as a heterosexual marriage then I would be all for it. I would have no reason and no desire to dispute homosexual marriages if the greatest weight of Scriptural evidence supported any type of same-sex unions, but I just don't see that support in the Bible.

 

[stovebolts]

Correct me if I am reading you incorrectly here. But are you saying that Paul was warning them about those of Rome who participate in these acts ? If this is what you are saying, then I would disagree.

H,
I can simply say that Paul was retelling the story as outlined in the Old Testament (Tanak) and I'm sure that the story resonated within their own culture for obvious reasons... In a way, it was quite prophetic to Rome's destruction now wasn't it? ;)

This is not about a nation or a people, but about false brethren unaware.

H,
Take a step back. I'm not sure why it's so hard to understand that Paul is talking about how nations have gone astray. This is the gist of the whole Bible. It's a story of a Holy People (Adam and Eve) living in a Holy Land (Eden) and how they stumbled, yet YHVH continued to show mercy and grace toward them. But it's not only about individual people such as Adam, Noah, Abraham and Jacob. It's about how God himself brought out a nation and called a nation his son (Exodus) for the sole purpose that they would be the light to the rest of the nations so that the rest of the world might enjoy communion with YHVH and that the world be restored.

I'm not sure what you mean by "False brethren", but if your talking about Jewish Christians who still keep the Torah and gentile Christians who don't, then I think you've missed what Paul is saying. He's saying that each is doing so to the Lord, and is acceptable to the Lord.

The world is going to be the world no matter where you live. Be it Rome or in Corinth or in Philipy or in Galatia, or whereever.

Yes, but each region is going to have it's own set of challenges. For example, the church at Corinth had issues that the church in Galatia never experienced and it's all due to their differences in culture. You can't say that they all had the same issues because frankly, they didn't. Thus, when Paul writes letters to those congregations, he addresses specific issues or topics that is specific to that church and region. What doesn't change, however, is Paul's commitment to the gospel which he repeats among all the churches.

What I think is a more full understanding here, is that there are those who will claim to be christians who will try and sway you .

I wouldn't say that it's a more full understanding. I believe that it has merit, but the jist of chapter 1 is to show that gentiles have wandered into sin by worshipping idols and having unnatural relations.

Either back towards the law or how sin is to be perceived. And Paul didn't want them to be swayed .

I think Paul is using Galatia as a "lessons learned" with a twist. You see, those in Rome were not accepting of Jewish people so the fear of Judaism would have been a smaller fear than what occurred in Galatia. I would think that Paul wants to make sure that the Jews are accepted back into Rome without being looked down upon as second class citizens in light of their 'odd' rituals and for those Jews who had accepted Christ as their savior, they were as much brothers in Christ as any of the gentile believers.

Paul wanted to establish them in the faith, so that the deceivers of the world would not come in as false brethren, and or false teachers, and deceive them. Paul's main goal was to "establish" them in the faith.

Paul's agenda is always to establish believers in the faith. But in this case, you have two different cultures with two radically different views on how to live that faith out. In other words, if a Jewish Christian does not eat pork, holds the Sabbath as holy and circumcises his son on the eight day because he is trying to please YHVH, then his offering is acceptable to YHVH. What the Jewish believer cannot do, is bind the gentile believer to this same lifestyle.

If you have any questions on what I have written, I would be more than happy to support my finding through scriptural reference.

I hope this helps.

Grace and Peace,
J

 

[Mysteryman]

There is good news! Since homosexuality is a sin, it can be forgiven. For example, in 1 Timothy 1:9-10, notice that the list of sinners includes murderers, adulterers, and homosexuals. Just as unsaved murderers and unsaved adulterers can receive salvation, unsaved homosexuals can receive salvation as well. But after receiving salvation, people must turn away from committing murder and adultery. Therefore, after receiving salvation, people should turn away from committing homosexuality as well, and there are a number of ministries which are devoted to helping people get free from homosexuality. Remember, homosexuality is not genetic because if it were genetic then it would not be a sin.

Since God's view of homosexual activity is so clear, it is easy for us to determine how the Church should respond to homosexuality. The most important thing that the Church needs to understand is that God loves those who are ensnared in homosexuality (John 3:16), and therefore so should we. We should welcome them into our churches with open arms and open hearts, just as we should welcome all people into our churches. This doesn't mean that we condone homosexuality or any other sins, but it means that we should be displaying God's unconditional love rather than man's condemnation. Since it would be wrong for churches to ordain unrepentant, practicing murderers and unrepentant, practicing adulterers, then it would also be wrong for churches to ordain unrepentant, practicing homosexuals (1 Timothy 1:9-10). In addition, marriage is always between a man and a woman throughout the New Testament, and homosexuality is always denounced. Therefore, whether we like it or not, churches have no Scriptural precedent, no Scriptural command, and no Scriptural authority for performing homosexual marriages or same-sex unions. Personally, if the Bible said that a homosexual marriage is just as proper as a heterosexual marriage then I would be all for it. I would have no reason and no desire to dispute homosexual marriages if the greatest weight of Scriptural evidence supported any type of same-sex unions, but I just don't see that support in the Bible.

Hi awaken :

As it is true that homosexuals can be forgiven of their sins - plural. A murderer can not. So you are reading I Timothy 1:9 incorrectly.

A better reference than I Timothy 1:9 would be I Corinth. 6:9 - 11, because in verse 11 Paul states - "And such were some of you : but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ , and by the Spirit of our God".

Now notice the sins listed here - fornicators - idolater - adulterers - effeminate - abusers of themselves with mankind - thieves - covetous - drunkards - revilers - extortioners. < Notice that murder is not mentioned ? That is because a murderer hath no eternal life abiding in them - IJohn 3:15

 

[jasoncran]

so then mm what about those mothers who had their babies aborted, are they not murderers?

they cant be forgiven?

 

[Mysteryman]

Hi Jeff

Yes I agree that there were different issues in lets say Corinth, than there were in Galatia or Rome. However there is always certain things prevalent in all of these gentile nations. One - they were born into the culture, and two, there are always going to be false brethren unaware coming in to sway them. Notice I Corinth. 11:19

You said - "I wouldn't say that it's a more full understanding. I believe that it has merit, but the jist of chapter 1 is to show that gentiles have wandered into sin by worshipping idols and having unnatural relations."


And here is where I disagree. I believe that they were born into the culture, rather than the oppoiste being true. The believers were coming out of their culture by becoming Christians. Paul wanted to establish them in the faith, and help them realize spiritual things. Where before they were blinded to these spiritual things.

Follow what I am saying ?

Bless

 

[Mysteryman]

so then mm what about those mothers who had their babies aborted, are they not murderers?

they cant be forgiven?

Hi Jasoncran

This is one of those touchy subjects as you might imagine ! Discussing murder and who is and who is not a murderer is a very difficult subject to get accross.

If you would like to start a specific thread on this subject, I would be more than willing to join you there.

For the sake of time laps. Not all killing is murder, even when it comes to abortion. I won't get into the specifics right at this time. I don't want to detract from the purpose of this thread. Okay ?

 

[jasoncran]

so then using your logic then being gay is ok as its legal.

in all 50 its legal for the gay men to be together, but not married. but the law doesnt stop gays from cohabiting at all nor the act of gay sex.not even in texas

abortion is murder.if you dont think so look at the ot punishment for it a woman who has a stillborn(misscarriage) to due to being hit.

you are being uneven in your judgement , gays ok to be forgiven but not murderers. you have just discussed pauline doctrine. Paul murdered saints did he not, yet he is heaven.

 

[awaken]

There is good news! Since homosexuality is a sin, it can be forgiven. For example, in 1 Timothy 1:9-10, notice that the list of sinners includes murderers, adulterers, and homosexuals. Just as unsaved murderers and unsaved adulterers can receive salvation, unsaved homosexuals can receive salvation as well. But after receiving salvation, people must turn away from committing murder and adultery. Therefore, after receiving salvation, people should turn away from committing homosexuality as well, and there are a number of ministries which are devoted to helping people get free from homosexuality. Remember, homosexuality is not genetic because if it were genetic then it would not be a sin.

Since God's view of homosexual activity is so clear, it is easy for us to determine how the Church should respond to homosexuality. The most important thing that the Church needs to understand is that God loves those who are ensnared in homosexuality (John 3:16), and therefore so should we. We should welcome them into our churches with open arms and open hearts, just as we should welcome all people into our churches. This doesn't mean that we condone homosexuality or any other sins, but it means that we should be displaying God's unconditional love rather than man's condemnation. Since it would be wrong for churches to ordain unrepentant, practicing murderers and unrepentant, practicing adulterers, then it would also be wrong for churches to ordain unrepentant, practicing homosexuals (1 Timothy 1:9-10). In addition, marriage is always between a man and a woman throughout the New Testament, and homosexuality is always denounced. Therefore, whether we like it or not, churches have no Scriptural precedent, no Scriptural command, and no Scriptural authority for performing homosexual marriages or same-sex unions. Personally, if the Bible said that a homosexual marriage is just as proper as a heterosexual marriage then I would be all for it. I would have no reason and no desire to dispute homosexual marriages if the greatest weight of Scriptural evidence supported any type of same-sex unions, but I just don't see that support in the Bible.

Hi awaken :

As it is true that homosexuals can be forgiven of their sins - plural. A murderer can not. So you are reading I Timothy 1:9 incorrectly.

A better reference than I Timothy 1:9 would be I Corinth. 6:9 - 11, because in verse 11 Paul states - "And such were some of you : but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ , and by the Spirit of our God".

Now notice the sins listed here - fornicators - idolater - adulterers - effeminate - abusers of themselves with mankind - thieves - covetous - drunkards - revilers - extortioners. < Notice that murder is not mentioned ? That is because a murderer hath no eternal life abiding in them - IJohn 3:15

Interesting??? I have never noticed it was not in that list...

 

[stovebolts]

Yes I agree that there were different issues in lets say Corinth, than there were in Galatia or Rome. However there is always certain things prevalent in all of these gentile nations. One - they were born into the culture, and two, there are always going to be false brethren unaware coming in to sway them. Notice I Corinth. 11:19

Hi Hervey,
I hope that you receive this well, but I think trying to redact I Corinth. 11:19 with Romans 1 is just poor exegesis

When I study the scriptures, I try to do so in a manner that takes into account why the letter was written and to whom the letter was written. Think of it like this. You write your son a personal letter to deal with some issues he's having and later on, somebody else reads that letter. Unless you understand the problems that prompted the fathers letter to his son, chances are your going to miss the point.

For me, I think that if we can understand how the original reader received the text, then we can better grasp the thrust of what is trying to be conveyed. With that, I do not feel the need to put forth an exegetic proposal for verse 11:19.

And here is where I disagree. I believe that they were born into the culture, rather than the oppoiste being true. The believers were coming out of their culture by becoming Christians. Paul wanted to establish them in the faith, and help them realize spiritual things. Where before they were blinded to these spiritual things.

I'm not sure what you mean by "opposite being true". Actually, I think that Paul might state that being born in a Christian home, though it has it's value, does not set one above his brother who growing up in foster homes and institutions and accepted Jesus as their savior while incarcerated makes either one less or greater than the other, though each have their own unique struggles, strengths and weakness. On that note, I don't think it a fair assessment to say that since the orphan has an issue and Paul writes to the Orphan, that the same message applies in the same manner to the one who grew up in a good family oriented home... This in no way devalues the message to whomever is reading it.

As far as "coming out of their culture", I suppose that's one way to look at it. However, as the Hebrew writer emphasizes, things are just better with Christ. But then again, the writer of Hebrews wasn't writing to the gentiles either if you get my point.

But I see we are once again straying. In an earlier post, you stated that all homosexuals are summed up in Romans 1 to which I disagreed and you have not yet shown me that Romans 1 is not speaking about entire nations and peoples.

Take care and I hope this finds you well.

God bless
J

 

[jasoncran]

i repented at the reading of romans 1:26.

 

[Mysteryman]

Hi Jeff

No, no offense taken . I enjoyed the conversation greatly. I just believe that we have come to a cross road within this paticular conversation. And for the time being, the cross road leads you one way, while the road I am on take me in another direction. Maybe by the grace of God we will both get to the land of Oz at the same time. Follow that yellow brick road . :yes I always wondered what it would be like to be a scare crow ? :rolling

Bless you sir --

Bless you too Brother.

I know what it feels like to be the tin man ;)

 

[turnorburn]

Sodom And Gomorrah

The cities in the plain...

http://www.arkdiscovery.com/sodom_&_gomorrah.htm


turnorburn

 

[westtexas]

http://www.arkdiscovery.com/sodom_&_gomorrah.htm

Good article Turn, thanks. I wish this $39 dollar monitor had speakers on it! I'd like to watch the videos at the end.

Westtexas

 

[Packrat]

So, conclusively, what real biblical reference can you chalk up, that cannot be disputed or undermined in any way, shape, or form, that homosexuality is, indeed, a sin?

I think even the New Testament states that it is an abomination, but in my opinion the Old Testament is the Holy Scriptures and the New Testament is the explanation of the Old. Of course the New can be believed (e.g. Jesus' words appear within it) but only within the context of the Old Testament. If it seems to teach against the Old Testament - which I don't believe it ever does - then it should be thrown out.

So the answer becomes easy for me: homosexuality was wrong then (i.e. punishable by death) and it is wrong now. Absolutely nothing has changed except for the fact that God's Laws have been written on our hearts and minds so that we want to obey them and, in doing so, within the parameters of love.

Saying that the New teaches against the Old or that it teaches some convoluted "fulfillment" of the Old leaves the New Testament open to contradictions. For example, the New might say that it's an abomination and wrong and that it shouldn't be done and then it might seem to suggest that we can do it anyway because it doesn't matter anymore. That's a contradiction. And unless you believe that God's Torah still applies to Israel (including all Christians, because we've been grafted in) then you will be faced with these unsolvable contradictions.