Homosexuality in Christianity

[jasoncran]

Sorry Jason, I'm a little unclear as to what you're getting at with your post to me.

i want to know how you justify that one can be a christian and at the same a celibate homosexual.

 

[Physicist]

Salad bar Christians

I find it somewhat disingenuous that fundamentalist Christians use the Bible to justify their prejudice against gay people. It seems to me that they behave as 'salad bar' Christians, accepting the often extreme Biblical commandments against homosexuality but ignoring the same extreme rules against others. Yes, Leviticus directs believers to kill Gays. It also directs the stoning of disobedient children. Yes, Paul condemns homosexual behavior, but he (if you accept the Pastorals as legitimate) also treats women as second class citizens

2:11 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.
2:12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.

Do the women posting in this forum think that all women teachers should be fired?

There are a lot of obsolete directives in the Bible that no longer apply to modern society. Bigotry against those with same-sex leanings is one.

 

[Packrat]

packrat, i know that, i was bi. i was addressing free's comment.

if the bible condemns an act then the thought of it, when not immedialtely squashed(temptation) is sin.

the only act that isnt is the act of sex within the marriage bed, outside its wrong.

Yeah. I just figured I was opening my mouth so wide I might as well shove my foot in it. :D Anyway, I just got out what I think about the whole subject. I think you believe homosexuality is not a sin but a sinful nature? And you do have a wife? Seems like I remember reading that somewhere here. Well, proud of you, bro. All power to you.

 

[Packrat]

Re: Salad bar Christians

I find it somewhat disingenuous that fundamentalist Christians use the Bible to justify their prejudice against gay people. It seems to me that they behave as 'salad bar' Christians, accepting the often extreme Biblical commandments against homosexuality but ignoring the same extreme rules against others. Yes, Leviticus directs believers to kill Gays. It also directs the stoning of disobedient children. Yes, Paul condemns homosexual behavior, but he (if you accept the Pastorals as legitimate) also treats women as second class citizens

2:11 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.
2:12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.

Do the women posting in this forum think that all women teachers should be fired?

There are a lot of obsolete directives in the Bible that no longer apply to modern society. Bigotry against those with same-sex leanings is one.

Hey, Physicist! I don't ever believe we should frown upon homosexual people but rather upon homosexuality and especially upon homosexual acts such as sodomy. Yes, I find it incongruous that many Christians hold a grudge against homosexuality and then go home and eat pork and shellfish. They were all taught in the same Torah and I don't believe there are any regulations regarding the subject in the Ten Commandments. It just seems strange to me that they pick and choose what they should follow. They might cite the New Testament 1 Corinthians 6:9 precedent... But the discontinuity of our obedience to God's laws is not a view I uphold. This is for a number of reasons, one of them being everything in the New Testament is a reflection and addition to the laws found in God's Torah.

And I'd like to clarify that the Scriptures do not "direct believers to kill Gays" but rather people who have sodomized. This would be akin to the Scriptures advocating killing people who have committed adultery. Undoubtedly it condemns the nature, but it only executes judgment upon the act. I'm not at all abashed in the way I believe because I believe it to be right. But I just thought I would clarify what the Scriptures say as opposed to what you have mistaken them to say.

Concerning 1 Timothy 2:12, the woman was not to be the head of the household due to the husband's position of authority over his wife typifying that of Christ's position of authority over man. This is not treating women as second class. This is simply acknowledging a proper order to all things, including God's position over Man. In the culture of the time the husband was to lovingly serve the wife, the wife was supposed to be submissive to the husband's wishes and the husband was to defend her even with his life. In 1 Timothy 3:5 Paul raises a very good concern. If a man cannot manage his own house then he cannot manage a congregation. This puts them into the same category of women for our purposes here. If women are not even supposed to manage their husbands should they then be trying to manage a congregation? You might say this would be unfair. And it might be to an authoritarian feminist. I don't know about you, but I generally would not like my wife to hold a position of authority over me.

I can't tell you exactly why women were not to teach in this passage, but I can offer you five apparent truths: 1.) Paul says, "I do not permit [...]" and not "God declares it wrong for [...]" 2.) Paul draws close ties between teaching and exercising authority in the same verse. 3.) 1 Timothy 2:13-14 not only implies our shared concern that women should not rule over men but also goes further in its concerns, hinting at some meaning we have yet to disclose from the context of the situation. The same goes for verse 15. 4.)God raised up female prophets in the past and men consulted them (2 Kings 22:14). Also remember Deborah who both lead and delivered Israel (Judges 4:4-5)? 5.) Acts 18:26 and Romans 16:3 show that both Aquila and Priscilla taught Apollos.

There is a time for all things, but women are generally to be peacefully submissive to their husbands and husbands are to treat their wives with a gentle love. This is the Christian way. Women are not second class citizens or down-trodden by God. Quite the contrary, they are the bride of Christ and children of God. That seems like a rather high and respectable calling to me. Consider Galatians 3:28.

 

[ronniechoate34]

Re: Salad Bar Christianity

Mmmmh,,,salad bar. It makes me wanna' go to Ruby Tuesday's. Their garden bar is outta' sight.

 

[Biblesurveyor]

The original post contained two primary thoughts. Sodom and Gomorrah, and then homosexuality.
However, probably 90 % of the posts have referred to homosexuality. I would rather not get into the homosexual debate, but I believe that the events at Sodom and Gomorrah are of extreme importance, since they are relavent to the present times.
It is my belief, based upon scripture, that homosexuality was only ONE of the sins of the people there, and not necessarily the most evil one. Let me explain.
I’m not a Bible scholar, but I think there are two instances when God directly intervened into the lives of those on earth to bring destruction because of immorality on a large scale – the Flood and the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah. Obviously, then, it is urgent that we know that God is serious and God is unchanging, and today’s generation must understand this and be warned. (I will not give Bible references in the following discussion, since these passages are well known)
What did God say about the people in Noah’s day? He said they were “marrying and giving in marriageâ€. “God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.†God also said in Gen. 18 that the sin of the people was very grievous. To me this clearly indicates that foremost upon the sins of Noah’s day was sexual depravity. Also Jesus said they were “eating and drinking†up until Noah’s day. Again this indicates the people had no regard for God, and Noah’s preaching was falling upon deaf ears. Sounds like to me that there was total decadence and all kinds of immorality. God also told Noah: “"The end of all flesh has come before Me; for the earth is filled with violence because of them; and behold, I am about to destroy them with the earth. “ Exactly what kind of violence is not clear, but there is the implication that sexual sin was a causative factor.
I think the same things were going on in Sodom and Gomorrah. The reason is that when the angel told Lot and his two daughters to hasten out of the city, the emphasis was “lest thou be consumed in the iniquity of the city.†Also we know that Lot (not a perfect man by any means) had been “vexed†by the wickedness he was being exposed to by people in Sodom. In 2 Peter chapter 2, the statement is made that “He (God) rescued righteous Lot, (who was) oppressed by the sensual conduct of unprincipled menâ€.
In Jude we see the sobering statement that “Even as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the towns near them, having like these, given themselves up to unclean desires and gone after strange flesh, have been made an example, undergoing the punishment of eternal fire.†We are also told in Ezekial (speaking on God’s behalf) that “They were haughty and did detestable things before Me. Therefore I did away with them as you have seenâ€.
Also, don’t fail to remember the parallel account in Judges where, apparently, the people there were bisexual (if that is the right word). In that account of the incident in the city of Gibeah, we know that a stranger who came to town and was “saved†by a hospitable resident. He knew the stranger would not survive because of the people’s lust for any new (man or woman) flesh. They finally raped a woman all night until she died. That sinful and disgusting affront resulted in a severe punishment, as it should have been, as evidenced by the fact that even the UNGODLY there knew that it was a despicable act.
The word translated as "sodomites" ("abusers of themselves with mankind" in the KJV) is arsenokoitai, and is defined as: "one who lies with a male as with a female, a sodomite" (THAYER)
I think Isaiah was speaking to us today when he said “And Babylon, the beauty of kingdoms, the glory of the Chaldeans' pride, will be as when God overthrew Sodom and Gomorrah. Is 13:19

America must take these warnings seriously; if we forget them, it is to our own peril.

 

[westtexas]

i want to know how you justify that one can be a christian and at the same a celibate homosexual.

Let me answer this question a little differently through my perspective. I am an alcoholic who has not had a drink in 17 years. Sometimes there is no problem controlling my addiction, and sometimes the struggle is intense, even after all these years. On the tough days the prayers just have to go up a little harder and a little louder, but our Lord always listens. Scripture says ALL have sinned and I believe the sin is in the action and thought BUT NOT IN THE STRUGGLE. You were fortunate and the Lord helped you defeat some of your sins and desires easily. For some of us the old man fights a little harder I guess. I believe that everyone on this forum sins daily, and we each look to our Lord to help us not to sin again and to forgive us again, and again, and again when we do.
To answer your question, I believe that homosexuality is a sin, but it is no worse a sin than my addiction, or your -----( you fill in the blank). I believe that a homosexual or an addict can be a Christian if they realize what they do is sin and EARNESTLY look to our Lord for help. The struggle is not always easy but our Lord has promised "never will I leave you"

Westtexas

 

[stranger]

Hi folks,

The problem is that sexual intercourse (reserved for male and female married couples) in the natural sense is not possible between two men, nor two women because both gay and lesbian couples lack the necessary complementary physiology. The apostle Paul talks about natural and unnatural relations in Romans 1 - it isn't hard to figure out. No amount of cultural reinterpretation changes the natural sexual union between a (married) man and woman. That union is not physically possible between two men, nor two woman.

blessings

 

[Free]

Thank you westtexas for that analogy to which I was going to appeal to. Saves me some work.

Sorry for the late reply Jason; it was just one of those days.

First, I think that Christians do Christ a great disservice to deny the homosexual the right to believe they were born that way. We cannot say whether homosexuals are born as homosexuals or whether at some point they made a choice, either consciously or not. I believe that it is plausible that at least some are born preferring the same sex, while it has been shown that at least some have made the choice, and at least some of those are due to sexual abuse or early exposure to pornography.

My first point then, is that Christians need to legitimize the feelings of homosexuals and their belief that they were born that way. We should not, and indeed cannot, know otherwise. Leave it to God who does know.

Secondly, I am quite certain that if one reads what Scripture says, it does not condemn the homosexual for their attraction to the same sex. Rather, it condemns homosexual acts, whether performed by homosexuals or heterosexuals. In fact, according to the theologian who changed my mind on this issue, in biblical times there were no "homosexuals," there were only the acts themselves.

Thirdly, for everyone who desires to be a follow of Christ, there are sacrifices to be made; we are all called to be like Jesus, to be holy and to be pure. The alcoholic must refrain from drinking too much; all people, particularly men, must keep from lusting; etc. We are to keep our passions and desires in check at all times or we will fall into sin. It is no different for the homosexual. And whether or not God changes their "sexual orientation" is up to Him but by God's grace the homosexual can live a holy and chaste life. And by his grace I will never have sex outside of my marriage.

And with that, I appeal to westtexas' analogous experience, especially since some think that alcoholics are born predisposed to alcoholism. Of course, that isn't an excuse to drink, but it shows that it is much harder for some and only by God's grace can they live they way he wants them to live.

 

[Mysteryman]

No one is born an alcoholic nor is anyone born a homosexual. However, they can be born evil from their mothers womb. We can find this within scripture. But the bottom line is that it is a choice. To sin is always a choice. There is no one born in such a way, that they turn out this way because they were born with a default. This is just not true !

All sin and sinning is a choice ! All choices can change. Unless you have committed an unforgivable sin. Thank God that homosexuality is not an unforgiveable sin, unless one is fully committed to this sin. God is the final judge was to whom was fully committed to homosexuality. But one thing is true, they can change, it is not too late. Salvation is available. Remember, a homosexuality is not just "a" sin, it is a multitude of sins. Full repentance is needed, not partial repentance.

Bless

 

[stovebolts]

Hi MM and sorry for the delay in my response. My schedule fluxuates so sometimes, it takes me a bit longer to reply.

That being said, it seems to me that your tagging all homosexuals as those with hardened hearts per Romans 1.

And as far as a homosexual's heart is concerned, it is already hardened. Does not the scripture tell us in Romans 1:25 & 26 that God gave them up to vile affections ? And it is because of what they worship ?

When we look at Romans 1, we have to know that Paul is, as I would say, “Retelling the storyâ€. What story? Well, the story that’s told from the Torah and it starts with creation. (verse 20). What Paul is describing are empires that have been infected by systemic sin (To which the Roman empire belonged). Several of these societies are mentioned in Torah, such as the people of the earth pre-flood, then there is Sodom, Egypt etc. You see, Paul isn’t narrowing his comment to a single person, he’s talking about Empires and how society as a whole can become infected from the top down.

Think for a moment on Roman culture and the ideologies they held in regard to same sex relations. History shows, at least from a biblical perspective, that when a society degragates via systemic sin, the whole system eventually collapses.

 

[Free]

No one is born an alcoholic nor is anyone born a homosexual. However, they can be born evil from their mothers womb. We can find this within scripture. But the bottom line is that it is a choice. To sin is always a choice. There is no one born in such a way, that they turn out this way because they were born with a default. This is just not true !

All sin and sinning is a choice ! All choices can change. Unless you have committed an unforgivable sin. Thank God that homosexuality is not an unforgiveable sin, unless one is fully committed to this sin. God is the final judge was to whom was fully committed to homosexuality. But one thing is true, they can change, it is not too late. Salvation is available. Remember, a homosexuality is not just "a" sin, it is a multitude of sins. Full repentance is needed, not partial repentance.

First, you are presuming that having an attraction to the same sex is a sin. Second, on what basis can you say that no one is born homosexual? Third, you go from speaking of being homosexual to homosexuality, which, as I made the correction earlier, are not one and the same and confuses the issue.

 

[Physicist]

Re: Salad bar Christians

It seems to me that, if you never engage in homosexual activities, you are not a homosexual. Therefore, the Bible does say to kill homosexuals, as well as disobedient children.

Concerning 1 Timothy 2:12, the woman was not to be the head of the household due to the husband's position of authority over his wife typifying that of Christ's position of authority over man. This is not treating women as second class. This is simply acknowledging a proper order to all things, including God's position over Man. In the culture of the time the husband was to lovingly serve the wife, the wife was supposed to be submissive to the husband's wishes and the husband was to defend her even with his life. In 1 Timothy 3:5 Paul raises a very good concern. If a man cannot manage his own house then he cannot manage a congregation. This puts them into the same category of women for our purposes here. If women are not even supposed to manage their husbands should they then be trying to manage a congregation? You might say this would be unfair. And it might be to an authoritarian feminist. I don't know about you, but I generally would not like my wife to hold a position of authority over me.

Have you tried this explanation on any woman 25 or younger? I know my daughter wouldn't buy it.

I can't tell you exactly why women were not to teach in this passage, but I can offer you five apparent truths: 1.) Paul says, "I do not permit [...]" and not "God declares it wrong for [...]" 2.) Paul draws close ties between teaching and exercising authority in the same verse. 3.) 1 Timothy 2:13-14 not only implies our shared concern that women should not rule over men but also goes further in its concerns, hinting at some meaning we have yet to disclose from the context of the situation. The same goes for verse 15. 4.)God raised up female prophets in the past and men consulted them (2 Kings 22:14). Also remember Deborah who both lead and delivered Israel (Judges 4:4-5)? 5.) Acts 18:26 and Romans 16:3 show that both Aquila and Priscilla taught Apollos.

There is a time for all things, but women are generally to be peacefully submissive to their husbands and husbands are to treat their wives with a gentle love. This is the Christian way. Women are not second class citizens or down-trodden by God. Quite the contrary, they are the bride of Christ and children of God. That seems like a rather high and respectable calling to me. Consider Galatians 3:28.

But, of course, the author of 1 Timothy was wrong here. Women make excellent teachers. In fact, more teachers are female than male, even in Church schools.

 

[Free]

It seems to me that, if you never engage in homosexual activities, you are not a homosexual.

So, what do you call someone who is attracted only to the same sex? What if they don't engage in homosexual activities for a period of time for some reason, are they homosexual then not homosexual then homosexual again when they next become active?

 

[Mysteryman]

Hi MM and sorry for the delay in my response. My schedule fluxuates so sometimes, it takes me a bit longer to reply.

That being said, it seems to me that your tagging all homosexuals as those with hardened hearts per Romans 1.

And as far as a homosexual's heart is concerned, it is already hardened. Does not the scripture tell us in Romans 1:25 & 26 that God gave them up to vile affections ? And it is because of what they worship ?

When we look at Romans 1, we have to know that Paul is, as I would say, “Retelling the storyâ€. What story? Well, the story that’s told from the Torah and it starts with creation. (verse 20). What Paul is describing are empires that have been infected by systemic sin (To which the Roman empire belonged). Several of these societies are mentioned in Torah, such as the people of the earth pre-flood, then there is Sodom, Egypt etc. You see, Paul isn’t narrowing his comment to a single person, he’s talking about Empires and how society as a whole can become infected from the top down.

Think for a moment on Roman culture and the ideologies they held in regard to same sex relations. History shows, at least from a biblical perspective, that when a society degragates via systemic sin, the whole system eventually collapses.

Hi J.

I can understand how one's life can be very busy at times. As we are not obligated to reply to anyone on any thread for any reason. But I am thankful that you acknowledge your busy schedule for the slow reply.

When dealing with a subject such as this one, we sometimes allow our minds (carnal) to do the thinking for us. I am sure I am just a guilty as anyone from time to time. So when discussing such an important topic as this, we tend to demoralize it in some way. I am not saying that you are doing this. I am saying that we sometimes try and find a better way within our understanding, when the Word has already given a full explanation.

When I said that their hearts are already hardened, that is because of the explanations given us within Romans chapter one. That does not mean that God can not soften their hearts. I do believe that he can. We read in Exodus 9:12 that the Lord hardened the heart of Pharaoh. We also can read in scripture where someone hardens their own hearts, and God didn't have anything to do with it - I Samuel 6:6.

So when I said that their hearts were already hardened, I was refering to they themselves hardened their own hearts. When God hardens a heart, he does so through the spirit of man. So when God softens the heart ( to make humble ) he also works through the spirit of man. And as you know, God looks on the heart of man. God knows whoes heart is totally hardened or whoes heart is only partly hardened. Nonetheless, their hearts are hardened. And it is because of the way in which they have believed and what they have cast off. It is also who/what they worship, rather than worshiping the creator. < Romans 1:25.

Many do not take into account, that homosexuality is "caused" by God himself, because they live their lives in a lie. Read Romans 1:21 thru verse 24 . You can continue on reading the remaining verses that follow after these verses. But these verses set up the foundation as to why one "becomes" a homosexual. God makes them a homosexual . It is God that gives them up to vile affections, because they worship the creature "more" than the Creator. < Notice here, the word "more" here ! This kind of worship is not a total worship of the creature. If that were true, then they would be of their father the devil. Although it can lead to total worship of the creature. This is why there is still hope for them to come out of this life style. They need to start worshiping the Creator "more" .

Not just some more, but much more ! Worship of the Creator is the significant factor. Because they have changed God within their minds , and in Romans 1:21 it tells us this -- > "and their foolish hearts were darkened". When a heart becomes darkened , it also becomes hardened. Now lets read Romans 1:28 - "And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient"

God can reach out unto those who are willing to come back to God and start worshiping the Creator once again. God will take this curse off of their minds and their minds will no longer be reprobate. As it is God who gave them a reprobate mind in the first place. Many people look at homosexulaity as a sin. Homosexuality is the result of sinning, and not retaining God in their mind. The curse of the law is still upon those who do not want to live according to the grace of God. Jesus Christ was the end of the curse of the law. But unto those who believe . Galatians 3:10 - "For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse : for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them". Being redeemed from the curse of the law, is a blessing. God gave plaques unto those under the law in the OT, as well as unto those who were not under the law of Moses. This is why it does not matter if one lives or does not live under the law, or live in the law of liberty. The curse is still in effect unto those who walk not in righteousness. Where do you think the pague of 'aids" comes from ? I would want to believe that you would agree with me and say from God !

Bless you - MM

 

[stovebolts]

Hey MM,

The huge problem is, that homosexuals are void in their minds of any righteous judgement..

While I appreciate all that you have written, I think you missed my point as I’m still in disagrement with what you posted several pageas back and I think using Romans 1 is pushing the texts beyond it’s context to make such a blanket statement.

I have personally known a handful of “homosexuals†in my life and can attest that several of them were not, as Romans 1:30 states in that they were “ slanderers, haters of God, insolent, arrogant, boastful, contrivers of all sorts of evil, disobedient to parents, 1:31 senseless, covenant-breakers, heartless, ruthless.â€

While I have know homosexuals with these traits, I have also known hetrosexuals that despised homosexuals that carried the same traits.

 

[Mysteryman]

Hey MM,

The huge problem is, that homosexuals are void in their minds of any righteous judgement..

While I appreciate all that you have written, I think you missed my point as I’m still in disagrement with what you posted several pageas back and I think using Romans 1 is pushing the texts beyond it’s context to make such a blanket statement.

I have personally known a handful of “homosexuals†in my life and can attest that several of them were not, as Romans 1:30 states in that they were “ slanderers, haters of God, insolent, arrogant, boastful, contrivers of all sorts of evil, disobedient to parents, 1:31 senseless, covenant-breakers, heartless, ruthless.â€

While I have know homosexuals with these traits, I have also known hetrosexuals that despised homosexuals that carried the same traits.

Hi J.

The only thing that comes to my mind, is that what you might be seeing, is not exactly what is going on. You can not be with them 24/7 and thus can not make a true judgement call. Other than that, I am not sure what I could say,other than what the scriptures tell us is true, and our personnal view is flawed in some way.

Understand ?

Bless

 

[turnorburn]

The Bible says that homosexuality is a sin.

Or does it?

I know it certainly seems that way at first glance, but look closer.

As I read about the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah, I read that Lot found brought to angels into his home, and the citizens of Sodom demanded that Lot release the angels so that they could rape them. Lot begged them to take his daughters instead, but the citizens would have none of it, and started breaking into his house. It was at that point, and only at that point, that Lot and his family fled the city while it was destroyed with fire and brimstone, and his wife became a pillar of salt.

So, I ask you two things:

1. Did Lot offer his daughters because they were women, or did he offer them to protect the angels, and he didn't have any sons to offer?

2. Was the city of Sodom destroyed because it was full of gay people, or was it destroyed because it was full of rapists?

Also, while the book of Leviticus does say that homosexuality is an abomination, doesn't that exact same book say that eating pork is an abomination? Yeah, Leviticus 11:7-8, go and read it yourself. So, do you like eating ham 'n' cheese sandwiches? What about hot dogs? Don't you know they're made of bologna, which is made of the meat of a pig?

Pork is not the only portion of Leviticus that most Christians disregard; in fact, it's the other way around: Homosexuality seems to be the only portion of Leviticus that Christians still uphold. Why? Why does that double standard exist?

So, conclusively, what real biblical reference can you chalk up, that cannot be disputed or undermined in any way, shape, or form, that homosexuality is, indeed, a sin?

A movie came out ten to fifteen years ago portraying Jesus as a Sodomite did you see it. :verysad
God destroyed two cities in the Old Testament, a person that claims to be a Christian that has that Jones isn't a Christian..


turnorburn

 

[stovebolts]

MM,
I understand what you are saying, however, Romans 1 in context is refering to systemic sin as it relates to societies as a whole, or in his case, Empires. It's not simply what happens to a person, but what happens to a nation much in the same way that the USA provides abortions and allows Gay marriage. When these things become normative and widely acceptable to a nation as a whole, then what you've got is a better picture of Roman's 1.

This is one reason why Paul points us back to creation. He's retelling the story...

Now then, you may disagree with me, but before you do, please let me know that you understand what I'm saying. Once you understand and your still in disagreement, please show me at what point you think I'm at err.

Thanks,
Jeff.

 

[Drew]

Re: Salad bar Christians

Therefore, the Bible does say to kill homosexuals,.....

This is a statement that needs tons of qualifications to reflect what "the Bible says" on this matter.

Yes, there are parts of the Law of Moses that call for the killing of homosexuals. However, it needs to be underscored that the Law of Moses was for a particular people only (the Jews) and for a particular time only (beginning at the delivery of the Law at Mount Sinai and ending at the cross).

Note: This is not me "retrojecting" into the Bible - the Bible itself declares that such laws are limited to one people and for one time.