How are obedience and grace connected, if they are?

JS1Jn513

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Can someone please explain to me these questions?

1) How are obedience and grace are connected, if they are?

2) We cannot live perfect, but we are to obey, but we are saved by grace through faith. When we get to heaven, will it because our faith obeyed or because we are saved by grace through faith, or is it both?

3) How does God’s grace come in to play in all this?
 
We are saved by the grace of God through having faith in Him and His Son Christ Jesus. We are to be obedient to His commands that are not burdensome as we submit all of our self to Him. God perfects us through the sacrifice of Christ Jesus enabling us to be made holy and complete through His grace as it is a process of sanctification that first begins at salvation and continues throughout our life. Sanctification involves growing in faith in Christ Jesus and repentance. None of us are perfect, but are being transformed int the image of God the more we press into Him.

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Eph 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
Eph 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

How to live our lives for the Lord:
Col 3:1 If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.
Col 3:2 Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth.
Col 3:3 For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.
Col 3:4 When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory.
Col 3:5 Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry:
Col 3:6 For which things' sake the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience:
Col 3:7 In the which ye also walked some time, when ye lived in them.
Col 3:8 But now ye also put off all these; anger, wrath, malice, blasphemy, filthy communication out of your mouth.
Col 3:9 Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds;
Col 3:10 And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him:
Col 3:11 Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all.
Col 3:12 Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering;
Col 3:13 Forbearing one another, and forgiving one another, if any man have a quarrel against any: even as Christ forgave you, so also do ye.
Col 3:14 And above all these things put on charity, which is the bond of perfectness.
Col 3:15 And let the peace of God rule in your hearts, to the which also ye are called in one body; and be ye thankful.
Col 3:16 Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom; teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord.
Col 3:17 And whatsoever ye do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God and the Father by him.
 
Can someone please explain to me these questions?
1) How are obedience and grace are connected, if they are?
God gives us the grace to remain obedient.
Paul wrote..."By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name:" (Rom 1:5)
Grace...for obedience !
2) We cannot live perfect, but we are to obey, but we are saved by grace through faith. When we get to heaven, will it because our faith obeyed or because we are saved by grace through faith, or is it both?
We can be perfect, in everything but the vessel we walk in.
God gracefully gave us the gift of repentance so we could quit sinning, permanently.
He gracefully gave us water baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of past sins...making us clean, and also destroying the old man so we could be reborn of His Father's seed.
His seed cannot bring forth evil fruit.
3) How does God’s grace come in to play in all this?
Hi, J'.
Welcome to the site.
God gave us everything we require to remain obedient.
Like, 1 Cor 10:12..."There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it."
Look for the escapes !
 
Grace as in He gives us teachings that we did not deserve to know how to remain obedient?
That too.
When I refer to "grace", I refer to God's goodness towards the unworthy, in any aspect of life, including obedience.
By His grace, I make it through every intersection in town without getting T-boned !
By His grace, I was delivered the message of my conversion !
By His grace, I was given the gift of baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of my past sins, AND of how it destroyed the old me ! (Rom 6:6)
Etc, etc, etc,...Thanks be to God.
 
Perhaps it would be wise to approach these topics with perspective.

In the end, the question seems quite simple when we compare it to how we relate to young children.

Children rarely do things correctly. They lack the knowledge, skills, and experience needed to accomplish most of what is required of them. We must guide them constantly, or they will make mistakes and potentially harm themselves or others.

We need them to be obedient—that is, to be open to our corrections—not for our own satisfaction, but for their own good. We know they will make countless errors, but if they are obedient, we can lead them to places or situations that we know are better for them. Often, children resist doing something that later proves to be far more beneficial than their fleeting desires. The same applies to us: we must be obedient because, frankly, we often hold misguided ideas about what is truly good for us. We must be willing to see the objective outcomes of our actions, admit our mistakes, and change accordingly. We must remain open to interpreting the signs that indicate we are not aligning with God's will. Obedience often wounds our pride, but it also relieves us of unnecessary burdens, and in the end, we feel much better.

Faith plays a crucial role here. This is when children take you seriously and believe you. If they don’t believe you, they will not be obedient; they will be rebellious and try to deceive you with poorly mannered tricks that—while ridiculous to us—seem very cunning in their eyes. With rebellious children, progress is impossible. They cry, demand irrational things, and ignore gentle warnings.

But when children are obedient, believe you, take you seriously, and do what is right, they begin to feel at ease and gradually understand the reasons behind the rules you’ve set. This is grace—being in harmony with God. When children obey and start doing what is right, they eventually realize it is for their own good.

On the other hand, disobedient children begin to feel troubled, make poor choices, misinterpret your intentions, and drift further away from what is truly beneficial for them. In such cases, there is often no solution but to step back and allow them to learn through experience that the path you’ve shown them is the right one. Their childish ideas, born of ignorance, delusion, and misconception, will prove futile in the end.

We are not called children of God for nothing.
 

[Can someone please explain to me these questions?

1) How are obedience and grace are connected, if they are?

2) We cannot live perfect, but we are to obey, but we are saved by grace through faith. When we get to heaven, will it because our faith obeyed or because we are saved by grace through faith, or is it both?

3) How does God’s grace come in to play in all this?]

My short answers…

1) by grace people are permitted to enter God’s messianic family. I include an adjective (messianic) since in another sense all people in his image (Gen.9:6) are his family: Adam 1 was a son (Lk.3:38; Ac.17:28). Within his messianic family, his church, we are helped (grace) to be obedient children of his, and we help ourselves by being obedient children of his. Rm.12:1-2 combines the idea of us as Christians playing our part, and letting God play his. Eph.4:22-4 is similar—to help ourselves and to let God help us. God cannot be benefitted; this ongoing transformation into Christ’s likeness is for our benefit, our sakes. Prayers that end in, “I ask this for Christ’s sake”, are muddled and undermine God's grace.

2) we are to seek to live maturely (an aspect of ‘perfect’: eg Mt.5:48’s teleios): not that the father has matured, but that he is, in short, the complete (teleios) one on whom we should pattern our lives on, our destination of being. We remain fallible beings, and prone to wander. But through welcome-faith of messiah, we have been welcomed into the father’s family in messiah. But had we not heard the gospel, we would nevertheless enter ultimate heaven, since our core desire (explicit among those who have welcomed Christ) will have been for God as God. That level of salvation is irrespective of whether we have become Christians in this Age, or whether having become Christians we remain so and die as good Christians.

3) I think I’ve covered this.
 
Can someone please explain to me these questions?

1) How are obedience and grace are connected, if they are?
God's grace is bestowed upon us despite our disobedience. He saved us from His wrath, though we deserve His wrath, because He is a gracious God full of mercy.
2) We cannot live perfect, but we are to obey, but we are saved by grace through faith. When we get to heaven, will it because our faith obeyed or because we are saved by grace through faith, or is it both?
He does not count our sins against us. That is His grace and our salvation. In order to grasp this truth, one must reject the idea that our (at best incomplete) obedience is the reason for our salvation.
3) How does God’s grace come in to play in all this?
Now to him who works, the wages are not counted as grace but as debt. (Ro 4:4)​
If a person is successful in earning his salvation by obedience, his salvation is not considered to be a matter of God's grace. It is considerd to be something he earned and his salvation is owed to him. But Scripture is clear that no person will earn their salvation through obedience...

But that no one is justified by the law in the sight of God is evident, for “the just shall live by faith. (Ga 3:11)​

So don't let them bother you who say salvation is by faith plus works.
 
Can someone please explain to me these questions?

1) How are obedience and grace are connected, if they are?

2) We cannot live perfect, but we are to obey, but we are saved by grace through faith. When we get to heaven, will it because our faith obeyed or because we are saved by grace through faith, or is it both?

3) How does God’s grace come in to play in all this?
Grace is a gift and gifts can't be earned, so grace is incompatible with works insofar as they are done to earn a wage (Romans 11:6), however, works can be done for reasons that are compatible with grace. For example, a gift can be the experience of doing something, such as giving someone the opportunity to experience driving a Ferrari for an hour, where the gift intrinsically requires them to do the work of driving it in order to have that experience, but where doing that work contributes nothing towards earning the opportunity to drive it.

In Psalms 119:29-30, he wanted to put false ways far from him, for God to be gracious to him by teaching him to obey His law, and he chose the way of faith by setting it before him, so this has always been the one and only way of salvation by grace through faith alone.

In Exodus 33:13, Moses wanted God to be gracious to him by teaching him to walk in His way that he and Israel might know Him, and in Matthew 7:23, Jesus said that he would tell those who are workers of lawlessness to depart from him because he never knew them, so the goal of the law is to teach us how to know God and Jesus, which is His gift of eternal life (John 17:3), and which again is the gift of salvation by grace through faith.

In Genesis 6:8-9, Noah found grace in the eyes of God, he was a righteous man, and he walked with God, so God was gracious to him by teaching him to walk in His way and he was righteous because he obeyed through faith. In Romans 1:5, we have received grace in order to bring about the obedience of faith.

In Ephesians 2:8-10, we are new creations in Christ to do good works, so while Paul denied that we can earn our salvation as the result of our works lest anyone should boast, being made to be a doer of good works in obedience to God's law is nevertheless a central part of God's gift of salvation.

In Titus 2:11-13, our salvation is described as being trained by grace to do what is godly, righteous, and good, and to renounce doing what is ungodly, so doing those works has absolutely nothing to do with trying to contribute anything towards earning our salvation, but rather God graciously teaching us to be a doer of those works is part of His gift of salvation. In Titus 2:14, Jesus gave himself to redeem us from all lawlessness and to purify for himself a people of his own possession who are zealous for doing good works, so the way to believe in what Jesus spent his ministry teaching by word and by example and in what he accomplished through the cross is by repenting and becoming zealous for being a doer of good works in obedience to God's law (Acts 21:20).
 
Can someone please explain to me these questions?

1) How are obedience and grace are connected, if they are?
No one is able to live, or to be obedient, without God accomplishing all that is necessary for someone to be obedient (willingly and joyously!) -- grumbling may get punished.
2) We cannot live perfect, but we are to obey, but we are saved by grace through faith. When we get to heaven, will it because our faith obeyed or because we are saved by grace through faith, or is it both?
Jesus says we must live perfect. He is always correct.
3) How does God’s grace come in to play in all this?
Everything, every good thing is from above, and everything needed for abundant life, for eternal life, is through His Grace and no other way.
 
Can someone please explain to me these questions?

1) How are obedience and grace are connected, if they are?

2) We cannot live perfect, but we are to obey, but we are saved by grace through faith. When we get to heaven, will it because our faith obeyed or because we are saved by grace through faith, or is it both?

3) How does God’s grace come in to play in all this?

Yes, they are connected.

Grace is the God-given ability to do what we can not do on our own.

Grace is the Holy Spirit; the Spirit of grace.

Anyone who has rejected Moses’ law dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. Of how much worse punishment, do you suppose, will he be thought worthy who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified a common thing, and insulted the Spirit of grace? Hebrews 10:28-29

Grace is the ability that comes to us, along with faith, when speaks to us. See Romans 10:17

In order for faith to be complete, and activated (made alive) it must have obedience, otherwise faith is dormant (dead; inactive) all by itself, being incomplete, just as a body without the spirit is dead because it’s incomplete.

For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also. James 2:26

The “work” James is referring to is contextually found in the previous verses and refers to the corresponding act (work) of obedience.


Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar? Do you see that faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made perfect?
James 2:21-22


The “work” Abraham did was to offer his son Isaac on the altar, in obedient response to God’s command.


This “work” or action is called the obedience of faith.


But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith: Romans 16:26


Grace is the God given ability to do what we can not do on our own; Obey God, repent; walk according to the Spirit.
 
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God saves and salvation is His work. In Christ we can bear much fruit…

To my mind and understanding obedience is a sign of genuine conversion and love for Jesus Christ. Faith without works is dead. A dead faith is not a genuine saving faith. Works are indicative of being truly genuinely born again in Christ.
 
Can someone please explain to me these questions?
Sure.
1) How are obedience and grace are connected, if they are?
Grace is what God does. Obedience is what you do.

Ephesians 2:8-10
For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast. For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.

  • Saved by grace.
  • Saved through faith.
  • Saved for good works.

You and I were created in Christ for the purpose of doing good works God planned for us to perform before He saved us. He has not abandoned you after He saved you and left you to do the work all on your own in your flesh. After describing the amazing humility of Jesus and how one day every knee would bow and profess him as Lord, Paul said the following...

Philippians 2:12-13
So then, my beloved, just as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your salvation with fear and trembling; for it is God who is at work in you, both to will and to work for His good pleasure.

God is at work in you.
2) ......When we get to heaven, will it because our faith obeyed or because we are saved by grace through faith, or is it both?
Concern yourself with what is expected of you this day and not some day in (God willing) the far, far distant future. Grace is what saves. Works never save. Faith does not save, either. Christians confuse this quite often so look at what I wrote above: saved by grace, through faith, for works. Faith begets faithfulness (works) but the Bible never states, "saved by faith," but you watch because there's a good chance someone will take issue with that statement and then resort to ad homienm when I ask them to cite the verse that explicitly states we are saved by faith.
3) How does God’s grace come in to play in all this?
That is a great question. You can ask God when you get to the other side of the grave 😉. Grace is the power of God poured out into an individual's life because He wills it, and He wills it based on His purpose(s). He's never going to ask you if you want grace, how you want, it when you want it, etc. I will add God never acts fruitlessly. Therefore, whether we ever understand it or not God is always accomplishing His purpose in everything He does and since He and He alone is almighty He always wins - even when it appears He's not.

The fact that everyone in this forum drew breath long enough to sign into the forum is an act of God's grace and the minute He decides not to let you or me draw another breath we'll get to ask Him all the questions we want 😎 (between praises, that is).
 
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