How Calvinism Insults God and His Son Jesus Christ

[jasonc]

Why Are Calvinists So Mean?

I’ve known far too many gracious Calvinists to think there’s something in the doctrines that necessitates meanness. But there may be something in the culture that lends itself more readily to unkind treatment of others. Some thoughts...

www.thegospelcoalition.org

This is what I mean and notice it's said it's secondary a hill not worth dying on.

 

[for_his_glory]

Not being part of a church allows you to suggest Calvinism is a different gospel? Fact is you would be under church discipline for your wrong ideas.

Not being a part of any organized church puts me in a place where I can come into the word of God without my mind being clouded by all the various doctrines that I use to sit under. Anything, no matter what church one wants to attend, that does not line up with scripture is another gospel being taught.

Is it the church that disciplines us as there are over 5000 different religions in the word, or is it the Holy Spirit that disciplines us by teaching us all truths.

 

[Iconoclast]

Not being a part of any organized church puts me in a place where I can come into the word of God without my mind being clouded by all the various doctrines that I use to sit under. Anything, no matter what church one wants to attend, that does not line up with scripture is another gospel being taught.

Is it the church that disciplines us as there are over 5000 different religions in the word, or is it the Holy Spirit that disciplines us by teaching us all truths.

You are not taught all truths by the Holy Spirit. That promise was for the Apostles alone, not you.
If you were under proper eldership in a local church, Heb 13:7,17 you would have been instructed properly.
Your lone ranger philosophy is not found in scripture.

 

[for_his_glory]

Both of you misunderstand jn 16

What do we not understand about the works of the Holy Spirit, or that our sorrow will turn into joy, or how Christ Jesus has overcome the world as that is what John 16 is all about.

 

[Iconoclast]

What do we not understand about the works of the Holy Spirit, or that our sorrow will turn into joy, or how Christ Jesus has overcome the world as that is what John 16 is all about.

With all due respect, this is trying to go around what the passage is dealing with.Jn 14, 15, 16 all go together.
The apostles as foundational were given unique promises that we are not given.
There are many solid churches in SC....find one

 

[Iconoclast]

What do we not understand about the works of the Holy Spirit, or that our sorrow will turn into joy, or how Christ Jesus has overcome the world as that is what John 16 is all about.

WE do understand the work of the Holy Spirit He magnifies Jesus. He opens the word , given infallibly to the Apostles and allows some truth to come our way.

 

[for_his_glory]

You are not taught all truths by the Holy Spirit. That promise was for the Apostles alone, not you.
If you were under proper eldership in a local church, Heb 13:7,17 you would have been instructed properly.
Your lone ranger philosophy is not found in scripture.

So you refute John 14:26. The promise of the Holy Spirit is the same today as it was for the disciples of Christ on the day of Pentecost. Never said I was a lone ranger as I have probably learnt more in these forums in the last almost 12 years then I ever have in any church I attended.

Joh 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

1John 2:27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

 

[for_his_glory]

With all due respect, this is trying to go around what the passage is dealing with.Jn 14, 15, 16 all go together.
The apostles as foundational were given unique promises that we are not given.
There are many solid churches in SC....find one

You only Spoke of John 16 now you are adding two more. OK her are chapters 14 and 15 since I already explained John 16.

John 14:1-14 I am the way, the truth and the life (not the church, but Jesus)
John 14:15-31 Jesus promises the Holy Spirit (not only to the Apostles)

John 15:1-17 I am the true vine (not the church, but only Jesus)
John 15:18-27 The hatred of the world (those who have a form of Godliness, but deny the power there of)

 

[Iconoclast]

So you refute John 14:26. The promise of the Holy Spirit is the same today as it was for the disciples of Christ on the day of Pentecost. Never said I was a lone ranger as I have probably learnt more in these forums in the last almost 12 years then I ever have in any church I attended.

Joh 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

1John 2:27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

You are misusing and not understanding both verses.
I do not "refute" Jn 14:26....I understand it..look;

25 These things have I spoken unto you,
FHG...you were not there, Jesus is speaking only to the Apostles there.

being yet present with you....Jesus tells them what the Spirit will do when He ascends

26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name
, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

The Spirit cannot bring to your remembrance what you did not hear.They were with Him for 3 years, they were eyewitnesses

 

[for_his_glory]

WE do understand the work of the Holy Spirit He magnifies Jesus. He opens the word , given infallibly to the Apostles and allows some truth to come our way.

Sorry, but allows all truth to come to us that God wants us to learn. Nothing of what you have said even comes close to lining up with scripture.

 

[Iconoclast]

You only Spoke of John 16 now you are adding two more. OK her are chapters 14 and 15 since I already explained John 16.

John 14:1-14 I am the way, the truth and the life (not the church, but Jesus)
John 14:15-31 Jesus promises the Holy Spirit (not only to the Apostles)

John 15:1-17 I am the true vine (not the church, but only Jesus)
John 15:18-27 The hatred of the world (those who have a form of Godliness, but deny the power there of)

The other two chapters are going to bury your ideas even further, I will show it again.
26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:

27 And ye also shall bear witness, because ye have been with me from the beginning.
Again spoken to the Apostles, not you...you were not with Him from the beginning.
jn16;
4 But these things have I told you, that when the time shall come, ye may remember that I told you of them. And these things I said not unto you at the beginning, because I was with you.
12 I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.

13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

Without any doubt these things are spoken only to the Apostles. If you cannot see that, you should not attempt to teach any one at any time...it is that clear.

 

[Iconoclast]

Sorry, but allows all truth to come to us that God wants us to learn. Nothing of what you have said even comes close to lining up with scripture.

This shows you have zero discernment. This is so basic...only the Apostles were there.
You were not there.it was not spoken to you at all

 

[for_his_glory]

You are misusing and not understanding both verses.
I do not "refute" Jn 14:26....I understand it..look;

25 These things have I spoken unto you,
FHG...you were not there, Jesus is speaking only to the Apostles there.

being yet present with you....Jesus tells them what the Spirit will do when He ascends

26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name
, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

The Spirit cannot bring to your remembrance what you did not hear.They were with Him for 3 years, they were eyewitnesses

Not misusing any scriptures, but it is you that is denying the power of the Holy Spirit within us. Does it not say in Romans 10:17 that faith comes by the hearing the word of God preached to us like that of Peter preaching the word of God in Acts 2:14-41 and they who heard were filled with the Holy Spirit? So with that we have heard the preaching of the word. We have been Spiritually born again and indwelled with the Holy Spirit

Mat 3:11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire: (This means all that are baptized into Christ will receive the Holy Spirit)

Mat 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
Mat 28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
John 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
John 3:7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

1Jn 2:24 Let that therefore abide in you, which ye have heard from the beginning. If that which ye have heard from the beginning shall remain in you, ye also shall continue in the Son, and in the Father.
1Jn 2:25 And this is the promise that he hath promised us, even eternal life.
1Jn 2:26 These things have I written unto you concerning them that seduce you.
1Jn 2:27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him

 

[Iconoclast]

Not misusing any scriptures, but it is you that is denying the power of the Holy Spirit within us. Does it not say in Romans 10:17 that faith comes by the hearing the word of God preached to us like that of Peter preaching the word of God in Acts 2:14-41 and they who heard were filled with the Holy Spirit? So with that we have heard the preaching of the word. We have been Spiritually born again and indwelled with the Holy Spirit

Mat 3:11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire: (This means all that are baptized into Christ will receive the Holy Spirit)

Mat 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
Mat 28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
John 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
John 3:7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

1Jn 2:24 Let that therefore abide in you, which ye have heard from the beginning. If that which ye have heard from the beginning shall remain in you, ye also shall continue in the Son, and in the Father.
1Jn 2:25 And this is the promise that he hath promised us, even eternal life.
1Jn 2:26 These things have I written unto you concerning them that seduce you.
1Jn 2:27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him

Not one of these verses has any bearing on the discussion at all.
The Apostles were there with Jesus. You were not. You cannot remember what you did not hear in the first place.
Your responses show no comprehension at all.
You did not react to what I posted at all.
When you turn away from light you go into darkness.

 

[for_his_glory]

The other two chapters are going to bury your ideas even further, I will show it again.
26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:

27 And ye also shall bear witness, because ye have been with me from the beginning.
Again spoken to the Apostles, not you...you were not with Him from the beginning.
jn16;
4 But these things have I told you, that when the time shall come, ye may remember that I told you of them. And these things I said not unto you at the beginning, because I was with you.
12 I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.

13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

Without any doubt these things are spoken only to the Apostles. If you cannot see that, you should not attempt to teach any one at any time...it is that clear.

It's only you that denies the power thereof of the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. The disciples were the first to be indwelled and wrote that of their witness and testified of Christ. Acts 2 over 3000 were baptized into the Baptism of Jesus and received the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. Millions even today continue to be baptized into the Baptism of Christ being indwelled with the Holy Spirit. It wasn't until Jesus ascended up to the Father that the Holy Spirit was sent down as it was on the day of Pentecost that their Spiritual eyes and ears that were finally opened to understand all that Jesus taught them. The disciples were the first to be sent out to make more disciples of Christ anointing them with the Holy Spirit and has continued in every generation until Christ returns. Apart from the Holy Spirit man can teach us nothing.

Why do you deny the power of the Holy Spirit. So many preach a false doctrine that says once the Apostles died so did the gifts of the Holy Spirit.

 

[Iconoclast]

It's only you that denies the power thereof of the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. The disciples were the first to be indwelled and wrote that of their witness and testified of Christ. Acts 2 over 3000 were baptized into the Baptism of Jesus and received the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. Millions even today continue to be baptized into the Baptism of Christ being indwelled with the Holy Spirit. It wasn't until Jesus ascended up to the Father that the Holy Spirit was sent down as it was on the day of Pentecost that their Spiritual eyes and ears that were finally opened to understand all that Jesus taught them. The disciples were the first to be sent out to make more disciples of Christ anointing them with the Holy Spirit and has continued in every generation until Christ returns. Apart from the Holy Spirit man can teach us nothing.

Why do you deny the power of the Holy Spirit. So many preach a false doctrine that says once the Apostles died so did the gifts of the Holy Spirit.

I see. You have no idea. You guess , ignore scripture, and are unteachable.
Okay....you can do whatever ,as you have no credibility. You did not answer anything, but tried to brush it aside.
The word of God is special. You do not esteem it properly.

 

[for_his_glory]

Not one of these verses has any bearing on the discussion at all.
The Apostles were there with Jesus. You were not. You cannot remember what you did not hear in the first place.
Your responses show no comprehension at all.
You did not react to what I posted at all.
When you turn away from light you go into darkness.

It's because you deny the power of the Holy Spirit as all those verses have bearing on what you and I are talking about.

Once again, faith comes by hearing the word of God just as it did with the disciples even unto the day Christ returns. If you want to deny that then that is up to you. Is your Bible a red letter edition as the words written in red are the very words of Jesus written down by the Apostles within their letters that make up the NT.

 

[Iconoclast]

It's because you deny the power of the Holy Spirit as all those verses have bearing on what you and I are talking about.

Once again, faith comes by hearing the word of God just as it did with the disciples even unto the day Christ returns. If you want to deny that then that is up to you. Is your Bible a red letter edition as the words written in red are the very words of Jesus written down by the Apostles within their letters that make up the NT.

Ok, you tried your best. I see that we are finished here for now. Thanks for trying.

 

[jaybo]

You are not taught all truths by the Holy Spirit. That promise was for the Apostles alone, not you.
If you were under proper eldership in a local church, Heb 13:7,17 you would have been instructed properly.
Your lone ranger philosophy is not found in scripture.

What other parts of the Bible do you think apply to the Apostles alone? Since the original Apostles are long dead, do you think that the New Covenant applies only to them?

John 16:13 says, " When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth, for he will not speak on his own but will speak whatever he hears, and he will declare to you the things that are to come." I don't think that applies only to those to whom Jesus spoke directly. Rather, it applies to all those who have received the Holy Spirit. If you believe this applies to apostles only, what other parts of the New Testament apply to them only???

For example, Acts 2:1-6, "When the day of Pentecost had come, they were all together in one place. And suddenly from heaven there came a sound like the rush of a violent wind, and it filled the entire house where they were sitting. Divided tongues, as of fire, appeared among them, and a tongue rested on each of them. All of them were filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other languages, as the Spirit gave them ability."

And Acts 9:17, "So Ananias went and entered the house. He laid his hands on Saul and said, “Brother Saul, the Lord Jesus, who appeared to you on your way here, has sent me so that you may regain your sight and be filled with the Holy Spirit.” This happened to Saul before he became the Apostle Paul.

Acts 13:38-52, " When the gentiles heard this, they were glad and praised the word of the Lord, and as many as had been destined for eternal life became believers. Thus the word of the Lord spread throughout the region. But the Jews incited the devout women of high standing and the leading men of the city and stirred up persecution against Paul and Barnabas and drove them out of their region. So they shook the dust off their feet in protest against them and went to Iconium. And the disciples were filled with joy and with the Holy Spirit."

Ephesians 5:17-19, "So do not be foolish, but understand what the will of the Lord is. Do not get drunk with wine, for that is debauchery, but be filled with the Spirit, as you sing psalms and hymns and spiritual songs to one another, singing and making melody to the Lord in your hearts,"

Colossians 1:9, "For this reason, since the day we heard it, we have not ceased praying for you and asking that you may be filled with the knowledge of God’s will in all spiritual wisdom and understanding,"

 

[theSeriousOne]

Catholicism and Calvinism aren't Christianity.