How Calvinism Insults God and His Son Jesus Christ

[Robert Pate]

Catholicism and Calvinism aren't Christianity.

What makes you think that they are not Christians?

 

[theSeriousOne]

What makes you think that they are not Christians?

Because they REFUSE to acknowledge the One (not Three) who sent him.
He was the focal point in his ministry.

 

[Robert Pate]

Because they REFUSE to acknowledge the One (not Three) who sent him.
He was the focal point in his ministry.

If you believe that you have been predestinated maybe you don't need Jesus Christ.

 

[theSeriousOne]

heh

 

[electedbyhim]

If you believe that you have been predestinated maybe you don't need Jesus Christ.

How can you deny clearly what the Bible teaches. Is there a secret meaning behind the following verses that many people are not seeing?

How can anyone deny this doctrine.

Ephesians 1:4-5 just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we would be holy and blameless before Him in love, by predestining us to adoption as sons through Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will,

Romans 8:28-30 And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good, for those who are called according to His purpose. 29 Because those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brothers; 30 and those whom He predestined, He also called; and those whom He called, He also justified; and those whom He justified, He also glorified.

John 15:16 “You did not choose Me but I chose you, and appointed you that you would go and bear fruit, and that your fruit would abide, so that whatever you ask of the Father in My name He may give to you.

Acts 13:48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they began rejoicing and glorifying the word of the Lord, and as many as had been appointed to eternal life believed.

 

[jaybo]

If you believe that you have been predestinated maybe you don't need Jesus Christ.

This is pointless. Obviously you don't understand predestination. The all-knowing God knows just who will accept His Son as Lord and who won't,

 

[Iconoclast]

What other parts of the Bible do you think apply to the Apostles alone? Since the original Apostles are long dead, do you think that the New Covenant applies only to them?

John 16:13 says, " When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth, for he will not speak on his own but will speak whatever he hears, and he will declare to you the things that are to come." I don't think that applies only to those to whom Jesus spoke directly. Rather, it applies to all those who have received the Holy Spirit. If you believe this applies to apostles only, what other parts of the New Testament apply to them only???

Hello Jaybo,
I stand by everything I posted. I never said the Nt. was not for everyone. You can reread my posts,
What I did say was the promises in these three chapters were spoken and given only to the Apostles.
We know that because Jesus spoke directly to them.

When God told Abraham to sacrifice his son on an altar.....did you take your son out to offer him as a sacrifice?
When God told Peter to walk on the water, did you go out on a boat and try and walk on the water?

Why not?
Here is what was posted;
Iconoclast said:
You are misusing and not understanding both verses.
I do not "refute" Jn 14:26....I understand it..look;

25 These things have I spoken unto you,
FHG...you were not there, Jesus is speaking only to the Apostles there.

being yet present with you....Jesus tells them what the Spirit will do when He ascends

26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name
, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

The Spirit cannot bring to your remembrance what you did not hear.They were with Him for 3 years, they were eyewitnesses

27 And ye also shall bear witness, because ye have been with me from the beginning.
Again spoken to the Apostles, not you...you were not with Him from the beginning.
jn16;
4 But these things have I told you, that when the time shall come, ye may remember that I told you of them. And these things I said not unto you at the beginning, because I was with you.
12 I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.

13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

Without any doubt these things are spoken only to the Apostles. If you cannot see that, you should not attempt to teach any one at any time...it is that clear.

 

[for_his_glory]

Catholicism and Calvinism aren't Christianity.

Neither is JW, Mormons, Buddhist and many of the 5000 different religions in the world.

 

[jaybo]

Hello Jaybo,
I stand by everything I posted. I never said the Nt. was not for everyone. You can reread my posts,
What I did say was the promises in these three chapters were spoken and given only to the Apostles.
We know that because Jesus spoke directly to them.

When God told Abraham to sacrifice his son on an altar.....did you take your son out to offer him as a sacrifice?
When God told Peter to walk on the water, did you go out on a boat and try and walk on the water?

Why not?
Here is what was posted;
Iconoclast said:
You are misusing and not understanding both verses.
I do not "refute" Jn 14:26....I understand it..look;

25 These things have I spoken unto you,
FHG...you were not there, Jesus is speaking only to the Apostles there.

being yet present with you....Jesus tells them what the Spirit will do when He ascends

26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name
, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

The Spirit cannot bring to your remembrance what you did not hear.They were with Him for 3 years, they were eyewitnesses

27 And ye also shall bear witness, because ye have been with me from the beginning.
Again spoken to the Apostles, not you...you were not with Him from the beginning.
jn16;
4 But these things have I told you, that when the time shall come, ye may remember that I told you of them. And these things I said not unto you at the beginning, because I was with you.
12 I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.

13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

Without any doubt these things are spoken only to the Apostles. If you cannot see that, you should not attempt to teach any one at any time...it is that clear.

Are you familiar with reductio ad absurdum? You wrote, "When God told Abraham to sacrifice his son on an altar.....did you take your son out to offer him as a sacrifice? When God told Peter to walk on the water, did you go out on a boat and try and walk on the water?" You want me to respond to this? Okay: how do I know that you're actually a person? I can't see you directly, so for all I know you're just a bot responding with canned nonsense.

I can go further. You wrote "What I did say was the promises in these three chapters were spoken and given only to the Apostles. We know that because Jesus spoke directly to them." How do you know that? Were you actually present when Jesus spoke to them?

See, anyone can apply nonsense to someone else's post. If you cannot see that, you should not attempt to teach any one at any time...it is that clear.

Now if you want to have a reasonable discussion, fine, let's have one. If all you want to do is be insulting, I'll just put you on ignore. Get it?

 

[Iconoclast]

Are you familiar with reductio ad absurdum? You wrote, "When God told Abraham to sacrifice his son on an altar.....did you take your son out to offer him as a sacrifice? When God told Peter to walk on the water, did you go out on a boat and try and walk on the water?" You want me to respond to this? Okay: how do I know that you're actually a person? I can't see you directly, so for all I know you're just a bot responding with canned nonsense.

I can go further. You wrote "What I did say was the promises in these three chapters were spoken and given only to the Apostles. We know that because Jesus spoke directly to them." How do you know that? Were you actually present when Jesus spoke to them?

See, anyone can apply nonsense to someone else's post. If you cannot see that, you should not attempt to teach any one at any time...it is that clear.

Now if you want to have a reasonable discussion, fine, let's have one. If all you want to do is be insulting, I'll just put you on ignore. Get it?

Bye Bye.I have no need to answer your hostile post.
There was no insult here but trying to get you to see the point.

What was spoken to Abraham was just for Him.
The text tells us

What was spoken to Peter was spoken to Him.
When Jesus spoke to the Apostles alone, and promised them this special guidance, it was spoken to them.
14 And he ordained twelve, that they should be with him, and that he might send them forth to preach,
And these things I said not unto you at the beginning, because I was with you.
12 I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.

This is the Apostles....NOT YOU
THEN YOU SAY...
[I can go further. You wrote "What I did say was the promises in these three chapters were spoken and given only to the Apostles. We know that because Jesus spoke directly to them." How do you know that? Were you actually present when Jesus spoke to them?]

I know it because scripture says it. I believe scripture. I did not have to be there, it is in scripture

 

[Robert Pate]

How can you deny clearly what the Bible teaches. Is there a secret meaning behind the following verses that many people are not seeing?

How can anyone deny this doctrine.

Ephesians 1:4-5 just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we would be holy and blameless before Him in love, by predestining us to adoption as sons through Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will,

Romans 8:28-30 And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good, for those who are called according to His purpose. 29 Because those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brothers; 30 and those whom He predestined, He also called; and those whom He called, He also justified; and those whom He justified, He also glorified.

John 15:16 “You did not choose Me but I chose you, and appointed you that you would go and bear fruit, and that your fruit would abide, so that whatever you ask of the Father in My name He may give to you.

Acts 13:48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they began rejoicing and glorifying the word of the Lord, and as many as had been appointed to eternal life believed.

You have been duped by the devil into believing that God is an unjust, unrighteous tyrant that delights in sending people to hell. There is no scripture, but you think that there is, about God predestinating people to heaven or to hell.

Because of what you believe about God and Jesus Christ you will never see heaven. The God that you believe in does not exist.

 

[jaybo]

Bye Bye.I have no need to answer your hostile post.
There was no insult here but trying to get you to see the point.

What was spoken to Abraham was just for Him.
The text tells us

What was spoken to Peter was spoken to Him.
When Jesus spoke to the Apostles alone, and promised them this special guidance, it was spoken to them.
14 And he ordained twelve, that they should be with him, and that he might send them forth to preach,
And these things I said not unto you at the beginning, because I was with you.
12 I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.

This is the Apostles....NOT YOU
THEN YOU SAY...
[I can go further. You wrote "What I did say was the promises in these three chapters were spoken and given only to the Apostles. We know that because Jesus spoke directly to them." How do you know that? Were you actually present when Jesus spoke to them?]

I know it because scripture says it. I believe scripture. I did not have to be there, it is in scripture

Yet you did answer my post! And you're still wrong. Why do you think we have the Bible? It's not just a historical record of things said and done 2,000 years ago and more. By your false reasoning, none of it applies to us.

 

[Iconoclast]

Yet you did answer my post! And you're still wrong. Why do you think we have the Bible? It's not just a historical record of things said and done 2,000 years ago and more. By your false reasoning, none of it applies to us.

Okay....You have it all figured out. You know all about it. Guess I cannot help you as you are so wise.

 

[electedbyhim]

You have been duped by the devil into believing that God is an unjust, unrighteous tyrant that delights in sending people to hell. There is no scripture, but you think that there is, about God predestinating people to heaven or to hell.

Because of what you believe about God and Jesus Christ you will never see heaven. The God that you believe in does not exist.

Because of what you believe about God and Jesus Christ you will never see heaven. The God that you believe in does not exist.

So you condemn me? Am I Anathema?

Nevertheless, please answer why these Biblical verses teach predestination again.

Illuminate me.



Ephesians 1:4-5 just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we would be holy and blameless before Him in love, by predestining us to adoption as sons through Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will,

Romans 8:28-30 And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good, for those who are called according to His purpose. 29 Because those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brothers; 30 and those whom He predestined, He also called; and those whom He called, He also justified; and those whom He justified, He also glorified.

John 15:16 “You did not choose Me but I chose you, and appointed you that you would go and bear fruit, and that your fruit would abide, so that whatever you ask of the Father in My name He may give to you.

Acts 13:48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they began rejoicing and glorifying the word of the Lord, and as many as had been appointed to eternal life believed.

 

[for_his_glory]

This thread is going to be closed as I should have done this in the beginning. There are way to many violations of the ToS 1.1, 1.3, 1.4. Please go back and read these terms of service.