How can churches balance tradition with the evolving role of women in society and the church?

[for_his_glory]

Then the wife would not follow along.

As well as she should not as being a Godly woman, but how is her husband sanctified through her?

 

[hawkman]

What I have seen from male pastors their wife does a lot of pastoral duties too .

if Jesus wanted women to be apostles why didn't he pick one ?

Logistics of having a woman travelling with a bunch of men is one thing . I think it would have a been a big conflict also , society back then would not have accepted it .

 

[Free]

How do you understand this with regard to women sharing the Gospel of Christ? Does this mean it is wrong for a woman to share the Gospel with a man, particularly if the man has not yet heard the Gospel? For to do that, she must speak and she must speak the truth and in so doing she is teaching that ignorant man about Jesus.

It seems to me that Paul's argument is mainly geared towards the corporate gathering, where one is speaking to other believers. I don't think it applies to sharing the gospel anymore than a male pastor would have authority over an unbeliever in a secular setting.

I wonder if that depends on how the pastoral role is identified. For example, in some church denominations, the pastor is in charge like a ruler and what he says goes, whereas in others, not so much for the role is more like that of a shepherd that watches over the flock and guides the flock but does not lord it over the flock.

I don't think it matters on how the pastoral role is identified, although no pastor should be authoritarian in their role; that isn't biblical. In fact, we are clearly told that isn't to be the case:

Mat 20:25 But Jesus called them to him and said, “You know that the rulers of the Gentiles lord it over them, and their great ones exercise authority over them.
Mat 20:26 It shall not be so among you. But whoever would be great among you must be your servant,
Mat 20:27 and whoever would be first among you must be your slave, (ESV)

Yet, pastors, and perhaps others, are still in God-ordained positions over their flocks:

1Th 5:12 We ask you, brothers, to respect those who labor among you and are over you in the Lord and admonish you, (ESV)

To be a pastor is to be in a position of spiritual authority in the church and it seems to me that the strongest case favours male headship as being God-ordained.

 

[Free]

As well as she should not as being a Godly woman, but how is her husband sanctified through her?

I don't know. No one knows for sure what Paul meant, other than it cannot mean the husband is made holy, since that cannot happen apart from repentance and faith in Christ.

 

[WIP]

Pastors are not necessarily to top of the heap either. In our Lutheran church, the council which includes our deacons have authority over the pastor and in situations where it is deemed necessary, can ask for a pastor's resignation. Some churches have a higher governing body including bishops that hold a position of higher authority than pastors.

One of the sad things I see around here is that in some of our neighboring Lutheran churches that are associated with LCMS or Lutheran Brethren, there is, while usually subtle, a haughty attitude among the men on their elder boards. It's not right but it is something I have sensed in them.

 

[WIP]

Then there's the question about church women leading the Sunday School and Bible Study groups/programs in the church. I know this is done in our neighboring Lutheran Brethren church for sure. In fact, I would wager that if it weren't for those women, it would be nearly impossible to fill those leadership/teaching positions.

Maybe God made women to be helpers for a reason.

 

[for_his_glory]

Adam was the head of the first race of mankind; and Jesus is the head of the last race, the adopted children of God. God only sees two races--the Adamic race (all natural-born mankind) and His children through Jesus (all those born of the spirit).

"For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead. For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive" (I Corinthians 15:21-22).

Once we are born into the kingdom of God, we become new creatures in Christ. In the Spirit, we find there is "neither male nor female," just as there are neither race distinctions nor class separations. The Lord looks on the hearts of His new creatures and therefore does not discriminate when He offers His love and privileges. Women are not excluded from any of God's promises nor callings merely because of their sex.

Galatians 3:28: "There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus."

Within God's own nature we find these same qualities. Both men and women are to become like Him as we are conformed to His image. Since this is true, there are times that under the unction of the Holy Spirit a woman should assert herself boldly. (This assertion, however, should not necessarily be toward others, but rather toward the enemy, Satan!) For men and women to become over comers they must have this boldness and authority over the devil. God still desires that His people rule and reign with Him. His intention is to qualify us for that position, whether we are male or female. "And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen" (Revelation 1:6).

Even though "kings" is a masculine term, this is the ultimate destination He desires for all of His people. The Lord often uses both male and female terms to refer to both sexes. Women are to live in the "hidden man of the heart" (1 Peter 3:4). Both men and women in the church are referred to as "the bride of Christ." God has both a masculine and feminine nature. The mother heart of Jesus was evident as he prayed over Jerusalem.

"O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!" (Matthew 23:37).

Submission is considered to be a feminine trait. However, Jesus submitted to the cross under the direction of the Father. If we walk in the Spirit, we too will possess both the masculine aggressiveness and feminine submissiveness of God.

Both submissiveness and aggressiveness are God-given strengths. Yet, both can be perverted, so that we become submissive and aggressive in the wrong ways, with the wrong attitudes. Because these qualities are so misused and misunderstood by the world, they have become distasteful and despised. If aggression is frowned upon, submission is viewed in an even more negative light in western culture. We equate submission with weakness and lack of spirit. Nothing could be further from the truth. There was never a human being more submitted to God than Jesus Christ-- yet never was there one as completely resistant to the system of the world! It took extraordinary submissiveness and aggression for Jesus to overcome the world. For the Christian, whether we are male or female, He is our model. We are to possess His qualities and use them according to the needs around us.

"Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law" (1 Corinthians 14:34).

"Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence" (1 Timothy 2:11-12).

In these verses, Paul cannot be addressing women who were in the ministry, but rather those in the congregation who were out of order. How do we know this? We have many such proofs, many from Paul himself. Here is a partial list of women who were all in influential positions of leadership in the early church.

Pheobe (Romans 16:1-2): This woman was a deaconess of the church in Cenchrea, who was beloved of Paul and many other Christians for the help she gave to them. She filled an important position of leadership. It would be a difficult stretch of the imagination to say that this woman fulfilled her duties without ever speaking in the church!

Priscilla (Acts 18:26): Priscilla and her husband Aquila are often mentioned with great respect by Paul. Together they were pastors of a church in Ephesus, and were responsible for teaching the full gospel to Apollos. We are informed that they both taught Apollos, and pastored the church together. In fact, Priscilla is sometimes listed ahead of Aquila when their names come up. This has led some to speculate that of the two, she was the primary teacher and her husband oversaw the ministry. At any rate, we see here a woman in a very prominent position of teaching and pastoring. (Other references to Priscilla and Aquila are Acts 18:2, 18; Romans 16:3, and I Corinthians 16:19).

Euodia and Syntyche (Philippians 4:2-3): Here we see reference to two women who were "true yokefellow" and who labored with Paul in the advancement of the gospel.

Junia (Romans 16:7): In this verse we see Paul sending greetings to Andronicus and Junia, his "fellow-prisoners" who are of note among the apostles. Junia is a woman's name. In some modern translations, an "s" has been added (Junias) because the translators were so sure a woman could not be an apostle, that they assumed a copyist has accidentally dropped the "s." However the proper male ending would have been "ius," not "ias." No church commentator earlier than the Middle Ages questioned that Junia was both a woman and an apostle.

Though there were other women throughout the Bible in positions of leadership, such as prophetesses, evangelists, judges, leaders, etc., the above references should be enough to establish that women were indeed a vital and normal part of church leadership. Paul expected women to speak in the church, or else why would he have given the following directive. It would have been useless to give directions for women who were speaking in the church, if they were never allowed to do so.

Furthermore, if Paul believed that all women should never teach or speak in church, why does he commend many women who did just that.

 

[Guille Yacante]

As society evolves, so does the role of women in every sphere, including the church. How can churches stay true to tradition while also empowering women to step into leadership roles? Should the church adapt its stance to reflect cultural shifts, or is it essential to preserve traditional views on gender in ministry? I'd love to hear how others think we can balance these two important aspects.

It's not about "traditions", it's about obeying God according to the Bible.

The best women can do regarding themselves is always leaving leadership to men.

If there was any problem and no men would be able, the space of leadership should be left void, showing that there is a problem among the males of the Church.

[deleted vulgar text]

If we live in order, then we will be able to keep up with the biblical commandments.

But never step into presiding a meeting or preaching when it is something clearly forbidden to females.

 

[WIP]

I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man; rather, she is to remain quiet.
1 Timothy 2:12 ESV

I often wonder about this verse, particularly the first three words. Is there any other place where Paul declares something to be his rather than Jesus' command? Why in this case does he claim this for himself and not just make it a command from Jesus directly?

{edit} To me this reads more like a personal consideration of Paul's and not necessarily a command.

 

[jasonc]

And yet, Jesus said to let the children come to Him and if we do not receive the kingdom of God like a child, we will not enter. So, children can be our role model of faith but He didn't choose a child to be an apostle either.

frees point.

equal but in positiion .

you can't argue that women shouldn't be sports with men then argue that a lady can be a cop
and or security guard .

elders can and do pack heat in my church .

in that context there isn't any rules .

the military has female chaplains .they also will have female chaplains assistants . these not the chaplain can carry and shoot the threats . medic can be armed .a chaplain can never be armed . they can't do patrols armed .a medic can . without getting into the laws of war the medics can defend themselves and pull security if not in a unit that they are attached to . of course the medic trucks ,medevac aren't armed but escorted but will have a defensive weapon .

case in point a black hawk versus it's usual escort the Apache .

my point with chaplain assistants is that they do also set up the service ,can minister sacraments by aiding . that's a ministry .

granted the army roles of that don't require one fi be saved and all assistants do the same jobs .you might have a catholic chaplain above you ,then have a protestant one ,or Jewish or Muslim . your basic job is the same .

I just see men called to lead ,be the head .noticed the order ,husband love your wife sacrificially as Christ died for the church .

Adam was to have a helper not a fellow leader .

can't lead if one doesn't have a subordinate .it doesn't mean no yielding .perhaps it my good NCos above me . leading is not coercing but guiding ,setting the example ,correcting. listening ,serving .

ie I get a task .I order my men to do as I was told to accomplish .I then give them the materials needed to do the task .I guided them to do it .help where I can ,all working to ensure that task is met .

a pastor can have Vision .he can meet with his elders to discuss it and how to accomplish the mission and they all present it to tht church and ask the body to assist and each having a role


I'm not gifted to teach ,not inclined.yes the army has this every NCO is to teach ,train but I'm not gifted and yes I have taught . I don't have the patience for it . I'm not a people person

go ask Me to fix it ,clean it ,operate the sound and I'm on it . I don't mind being behind the scenes .not told but seeing what is needed and fixing it.my job as a meter reader is very much that . I don't have to wait for the customer to complain about a lid off or missing .I do replace them and request a new box ,trim the area and dig out as needed and mark .

if it wasn't that then it was fleet ,which was by nature similar .a tire needs to be replaced ,I did it ..lights etc ,belts ,reported what I couldn't do or wasn't allowed . washed vehicles as needed .

ask me to study to teach and I'm not inclined . I can study and everyone should be able to defend their faith but that is Not the level of a pastor or teacher .elders must be apt to teach . meaning they have it in them .

I'm very complimentarian in that women are able to help with the mission ,good at what God equips them .

finally my pastors wife is a well educated women.she could run the covid vaccine thread off as she could explain the way the virus works and talk about the Dna of it all .she is a pa with ob gyn ,trauma and physical therapy .she also teaches ballet .yet submits .

 

[jasonc]

What I have seen from male pastors their wife does a lot of pastoral duties too .

Logistics of having a woman travelling with a bunch of men is one thing . I think it would have a been a big conflict also , society back then would not have accepted it .

you assume that greco roman culture was nothing like ours .
look up the buried brothels found in pompeii ,the statues depicted sex ,the culture of boys are for fun and women for inheritance .nearby the brothels lie massive infant grave yards
many dieties were adronyous .

I'm familiar with female pastors . raised in one a church and the pastor who married me is buried near my fil .she died a few months ago .

she was a widow and never married .

let's not think that given especially that a tent could be folded and packed and carried that women and children couldn't travel .ever see the behoudin the nomadic tribe that are in isreal to Afghanistan ?

I have they are shepherds often and move often . those tents are not small. about twenty man tents . Paul made tents . but that a digression .

 

[jasonc]

Pastors are not necessarily to top of the heap either. In our Lutheran church, the council which includes our deacons have authority over the pastor and in situations where it is deemed necessary, can ask for a pastor's resignation. Some churches have a higher governing body including bishops that hold a position of higher authority than pastors.

One of the sad things I see around here is that in some of our neighboring Lutheran churches that are associated with LCMS or Lutheran Brethren, there is, while usually subtle, a haughty attitude among the men on their elder boards. It's not right but it is something I have sensed in them.

a presbytery ,yes but even those then if you allow a pastor then would have to be a female and in my case the pastor owned the church land ,lot and house that was on it ..if she was removed the church would simply close .

lots of local one man shows ,usually charismatic here .

 

[hawkman]

you assume that greco roman culture was nothing like ours .
look up the buried brothels found in pompeii ,the statues depicted sex ,the culture of boys are for fun and women for inheritance .nearby the brothels lie massive infant grave yards
many dieties were adronyous .

I went to school in bammy and we had history book too ! Think about it , it was the Jewish culture that was first presented with apostles and where most of the first converts come from .

I'm familiar with female pastors . raised in one a church and the pastor who married me is buried near my fil .she died a few months ago .

she was a widow and never married .

A female pastor started the church I attend about 80 years ago . My denomination does not allow women pastors to marry but male pastors must be married .

let's not think that given especially that a tent could be folded and packed and carried that women and children couldn't travel .ever see the behoudin the nomadic tribe that are in isreal to Afghanistan ?

Appearances , the tongues would wag .

 

[Free]

Once we are born into the kingdom of God, we become new creatures in Christ. In the Spirit, we find there is "neither male nor female," just as there are neither race distinctions nor class separations. The Lord looks on the hearts of His new creatures and therefore does not discriminate when He offers His love and privileges. Women are not excluded from any of God's promises nor callings merely because of their sex.

Galatians 3:28: "There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus."

Which speaks of the intrinsic value and equality of all humans, but not to whether or not there are different God-ordained roles for men and women.

Within God's own nature we find these same qualities. Both men and women are to become like Him as we are conformed to His image.

But, that's the thing--the Trinity indeed shows us something relevant. All three persons are the one God, each being truly and fully God and equal with one another. That is the ontological Trinity--how God has always existed in and of himself. Yet, when it comes to creation and the plan of salvation, the economical Trinity shows us that the Son willingly subordinates himself to the Father and the the Father loves the Son, and the Son and the Father both send the Holy Spirit. There is a hierarchy of functions which in no way whatsoever diminishes the deity or equality of any, but were simply necessary to fulfill God's plans.

Eph 5:22 Wives, submit to your own husbands, as to the Lord.
Eph 5:23 For the husband is the head of the wife even as Christ is the head of the church, his body, and is himself its Savior.
Eph 5:24 Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit in everything to their husbands.
Eph 5:25 Husbands, love your wives, as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her,
Eph 5:26 that he might sanctify her, having cleansed her by the washing of water with the word,
Eph 5:27 so that he might present the church to himself in splendor, without spot or wrinkle or any such thing, that she might be holy and without blemish.
Eph 5:28 In the same way husbands should love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself. (ESV)

Notice that what Paul says here is seen in the Trinity--the Son willingly submits himself to the Father and the Father loves the Son, without any diminishing of the ontological equality between them.

"Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law" (1 Corinthians 14:34).

"Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence" (1 Timothy 2:11-12).

In these verses, Paul cannot be addressing women who were in the ministry, but rather those in the congregation who were out of order. How do we know this? We have many such proofs, many from Paul himself. Here is a partial list of women who were all in influential positions of leadership in the early church.

But that doesn't address what Paul actually says, which is that women are "commanded to be under obedience" and that they are not "to teach, nor usurp authority over the man." That latter part in particular doesn't seem to fit the context of merely being in the congregation.

Pheobe (Romans 16:1-2): This woman was a deaconess of the church in Cenchrea, who was beloved of Paul and many other Christians for the help she gave to them. She filled an important position of leadership. It would be a difficult stretch of the imagination to say that this woman fulfilled her duties without ever speaking in the church!

A deaconess (a servant), yes, not an elder or a pastor.

Priscilla (Acts 18:26): Priscilla and her husband Aquila are often mentioned with great respect by Paul. Together they were pastors of a church in Ephesus, and were responsible for teaching the full gospel to Apollos. We are informed that they both taught Apollos, and pastored the church together. In fact, Priscilla is sometimes listed ahead of Aquila when their names come up. This has led some to speculate that of the two, she was the primary teacher and her husband oversaw the ministry. At any rate, we see here a woman in a very prominent position of teaching and pastoring. (Other references to Priscilla and Aquila are Acts 18:2, 18; Romans 16:3, and I Corinthians 16:19).

There is nothing in those passages that shows that either Priscilla or Aquila were pastors or held the office of teachers. Having a church in one's home doesn't mean that one led that church. That's reading too much into the text. Correcting someone's incorrect or incomplete theology doesn't put someone in a position of spiritual authority over that person. That Paul says they were "my fellow workers in Christ Jesus" is clear, but in what way specifically, apart from at least hosting a church in their house, we shouldn't speculate.

Euodia and Syntyche (Philippians 4:2-3): Here we see reference to two women who were "true yokefellow" and who labored with Paul in the advancement of the gospel.

Yes, they were fellow labourers, but we don't know more than that.

Junia (Romans 16:7): In this verse we see Paul sending greetings to Andronicus and Junia, his "fellow-prisoners" who are of note among the apostles. Junia is a woman's name. In some modern translations, an "s" has been added (Junias) because the translators were so sure a woman could not be an apostle, that they assumed a copyist has accidentally dropped the "s." However the proper male ending would have been "ius," not "ias." No church commentator earlier than the Middle Ages questioned that Junia was both a woman and an apostle.

There is nothing to suggest she was an apostle.

Though there were other women throughout the Bible in positions of leadership, such as prophetesses, evangelists, judges, leaders, etc., the above references should be enough to establish that women were indeed a vital and normal part of church leadership.

There is nothing to actually show they were a part of church leadership (pastor, elder, teacher), but rather that they supported the church (deaconess) and supported church leadership.

Paul expected women to speak in the church, or else why would he have given the following directive. It would have been useless to give directions for women who were speaking in the church, if they were never allowed to do so.

Furthermore, if Paul believed that all women should never teach or speak in church, why does he commend many women who did just that.

It's the context that determines what he meant, and it seems to suggest teaching or speaking in the corporate church setting as in a position of authority over men. That doesn't negate his other directions regarding their speaking in certain contexts.

 

[jasonc]

I went to school in bammy and we had history book too ! Think about it , it was the Jewish culture that was first presented with apostles and where most of the first converts come from .

A female pastor started the church I attend about 80 years ago . My denomination does not allow women pastors to marry but male pastors must be married .

Appearances , the tongues would wag .

I have been overeas.

the nomads don't care . besides you didn't exactly just move out when you married often you lived near and attached to your parents house .I wish I had that photo of one home so large that it was bigger then the fob and it was there generations.

Paul said that Abraham dwelled in tents with Isaac and Jacob

he had slaves and servants who attended his flock and they had family ,Isaac and Jacob also . they moved together until the first died .

remember lot was with Abraham for a while before they split .

 

[Free]

My denomination does not allow women pastors to marry but male pastors must be married .

Do they give any reasoning behind such a silly decision?

 

[for_his_glory]

I don't know. No one knows for sure what Paul meant, other than it cannot mean the husband is made holy, since that cannot happen apart from repentance and faith in Christ.

I'll have to do some digging on this.

 

[hawkman]

Do they give any reasoning behind such a silly decision?

My wife said if the woman was married she would have to put her husband before the church . I guess like being a nun if the lady is pastoring . The lady that started our church quit pastoring and married at the age @57 , she married a man who had never been married about her age .

 

[for_his_glory]

Which speaks of the intrinsic value and equality of all humans, but not to whether or not there are different God-ordained roles for men and women.


But, that's the thing--the Trinity indeed shows us something relevant. All three persons are the one God, each being truly and fully God and equal with one another. That is the ontological Trinity--how God has always existed in and of himself. Yet, when it comes to creation and the plan of salvation, the economical Trinity shows us that the Son willingly subordinates himself to the Father and the the Father loves the Son, and the Son and the Father both send the Holy Spirit. There is a hierarchy of functions which in no way whatsoever diminishes the deity or equality of any, but were simply necessary to fulfill God's plans.

Eph 5:22 Wives, submit to your own husbands, as to the Lord.
Eph 5:23 For the husband is the head of the wife even as Christ is the head of the church, his body, and is himself its Savior.
Eph 5:24 Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit in everything to their husbands.
Eph 5:25 Husbands, love your wives, as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her,
Eph 5:26 that he might sanctify her, having cleansed her by the washing of water with the word,
Eph 5:27 so that he might present the church to himself in splendor, without spot or wrinkle or any such thing, that she might be holy and without blemish.
Eph 5:28 In the same way husbands should love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself. (ESV)

Notice that what Paul says here is seen in the Trinity--the Son willingly submits himself to the Father and the Father loves the Son, without any diminishing of the ontological equality between them.


But that doesn't address what Paul actually says, which is that women are "commanded to be under obedience" and that they are not "to teach, nor usurp authority over the man." That latter part in particular doesn't seem to fit the context of merely being in the congregation.


A deaconess (a servant), yes, not an elder or a pastor.


There is nothing in those passages that shows that either Priscilla or Aquila were pastors or held the office of teachers. Having a church in one's home doesn't mean that one led that church. That's reading too much into the text. Correcting someone's incorrect or incomplete theology doesn't put someone in a position of spiritual authority over that person. That Paul says they were "my fellow workers in Christ Jesus" is clear, but in what way specifically, apart from at least hosting a church in their house, we shouldn't speculate.


Yes, they were fellow labourers, but we don't know more than that.


There is nothing to suggest she was an apostle.


There is nothing to actually show they were a part of church leadership (pastor, elder, teacher), but rather that they supported the church (deaconess) and supported church leadership.


It's the context that determines what he meant, and it seems to suggest teaching or speaking in the corporate church setting as in a position of authority over men. That doesn't negate his other directions regarding their speaking in certain contexts.

I can't agree with you on this one as we have to remember that in the days of Paul the assembling took place in various places like homes, caves and fields as I do not think they had established church buildings like we have today. As being a licensed Evangelist through the Church we use to attend, I alone (with Jesus), being a female, led the church services in the prison system being the shepherd over God's flock of men and women that were under my care for learning the word of God, 1Peter 5:2-4. It's not man or woman, but God who calls and anoints those who have been called of God for the purpose of His ministry. I don't think the the Disciples had to have a license to teach as that is incorporated into the law.

 

[WIP]

Here's another aspect that I think bears some consideration. I was talking about this subject with a neighbor, who is also a member of the neighboring more conservative Lutheran Brethren denomination church and he shared about a time when he brought this up while speaking with a female pastor of a local Methodist church. He told her that he doesn't believe women should be in pastoral positions and her reply was, "Neither do I. But men are not filling those roles so what do we do?"

I served on the call committee for our church when our former pastor left. I can tell from first-hand experience that available pastors are hard to come by. There are a lot of churches struggling to find pastors and many of our local churches have to resort to other means like sharing pastors with one or more other churches but even that can be inadequate and difficult to make happen. My church is part of a 2-part parish and was part of a 3-part parish for decades before where we shared one pastor. It took us over 3 years to find the pastor we have now.

So what do we do when men are not filling these roles to serve? How many of us men that are posting here in this discussion are stepping up, getting qualified, and taking on the role of pastor? This is part of the reason I have decided to accept the offer of training for laypersons from the St. Paul Lutheran Seminary to help fill in for pulpit supply on Sundays when our pastor needs to be away, but that doesn't necessarily solve the problem because pulpit supply is not a pastor's only responsibility.

So, if women aren't allowed and men aren't willing, what do we do? Stop meeting for worship? Isn't that what Hebrews 10:24-25 warns against?