How can this be?

[jocor]

Isa 66:7 Before she travailed, she brought forth; before her pain came, she was delivered of a man child.
8 Who hath heard such a thing? who hath seen such things? Shall the earth be made to bring forth in one day? or shall a nation be born at once? for as soon as Zion travailed, she brought forth her children.
9 Shall I bring to the birth, and not cause to bring forth? saith the LORD: shall I cause to bring forth, and shut the womb? saith thy God.
KJV
The womb of our mother heavenly Jerusalem will be shut, by God, just as the ark door was shut by God. No more shall enter into heaven after this, those who die, shall either be of the saved nations who come back in the GWTJ, or the unbelievers who go into the lake of fire they chose for themselves.

Verse 9 asks two questions that are both answered with a "No". Yahweh will NOT shut the womb as the children are in the process of being "brought forth" (born).

 

[jocor]

Do not let your self be deceived jocor,

Matt 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:
25 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.
26 And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:
27 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.
KJV

Surely you jest. Are you actually warning me that I will be lost if I am deceived about the interpretation of Revelation or am I misunderstanding your post?

 

[4afaithfulone]

My goodness... she has me confused as well....

mswright6488, may I ask you who that is in your avatar?

 

[4afaithfulone]

Surely you jest. Are you actually warning me that I will be lost if I am deceived about the interpretation of Revelation or am I misunderstanding your post?

No, I would never tell you to accept my word as the judge, I am showing you from God's Word that not all Christian's make heaven... isn't that what God's Word says there?

 

[jocor]

No, I would never tell you to accept my word as the judge, I am showing you from God's Word that not all Christian's make heaven... isn't that what God's Word says there?

I agree that not all Christians will make heaven, but you prefaced your verses by saying, "Do not let yourself be deceived jocor." Doesn't that mean you think I am deceived and are then warning me that I might not make heaven?

Your post should have never entered this discussion. If you disagree with my interpretation of Revelation, then address the Scriptures, not me personally.

 

[Gary]

I agree that not all Christians will make heaven, but you prefaced your verses by saying, "Do not let yourself be deceived jocor." Doesn't that mean you think I am deceived and are then warning me that I might not make heaven?

Your post should have never entered this discussion. If you disagree with my interpretation of Revelation, then address the Scriptures, not me personally.

Good post.

.

 

[Gary]

may I ask you who that is in your avatar?

Who do you believe is in that image?

.

 

[dianegcook]

I believe the 7 seals is the knowledge sealed in ones forehead of the 7 trumps and the 7 vials.
The trumps are the action of the seals.
The trumps could not sound until they were sealed with this knowledge so they could recognize them.
The 7 vials is the wrath that fall on those that are deceived by Satan.

 

[4afaithfulone]

Verse 9 asks two questions that are both answered with a "No". Yahweh will NOT shut the womb as the children are in the process of being "brought forth" (born).

You do see how He says they are born in one day don't you? Caught up in the clouds in the rapture. They will be caught up and the devil will be throne down to earth for the next 3-1/2yrs and those who were not ready to make holiness as his body when he came, will have to die as martyrs just as all those,they will not make heaven.
Rev 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.
13 And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them.
14 And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.
15 And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe.
KJV
I do not believe that once the rapture happens, that there will be new believers to become saved. The saints in 14:12 will have been those who had received Christ before the time was up and will have a chance to be martyred, but no new members once the WRATH of God begins.
Rev 11:14 The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly.
15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.
16 And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God,
17 Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned.
18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead(spiritually dead but on earth), that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.
19 And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.
Revelation 12
12:1 And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:
2 And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.
3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.
4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.
5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.
6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.
7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
KJV

 

[dianegcook]

4afaithfulone
I believe 2Cor.12:2-4 is speaking of John.
I believe there are 3 world and heaven ages, as I stated somewhere in one of my post.
1st
Satan guarding the mercy seat, then rebelled
2nd
This earth and heaven age, flesh
3rd
The age to come.
Thus John in Rev, was taken in the spirit to the day of the Lord. The 3rd heaven.

 

[4afaithfulone]

Who do you believe is in that image?

.

I am not sure, but I have seen many man made images(idolatry) such as this each with many other looks, and they say it is Jesus believing them to be God, but where did we ever see Jesus or his photo? Why does the whole world recognize these images as Jesus, yet it is not, just man made idols. Don't be offended, think about it, it is truth.
Do you think God minds that we have made statues, and stained glass, pictures of our own imagination saying they were images of His Son whom we say is God?

 

[jocor]

You do see how He says they are born in one day don't you? Caught up in the clouds in the rapture. They will be caught up and the devil will be throne down to earth for the next 3-1/2yrs and those who were not ready to make holiness as his body when he came, will have to die as martyrs just as all those,they will not make heaven.

Yes, in one day and Yahweh will not shut the womb as they are being brought forth. Also, those verses say nothing about a rapture of living saints. They are talking about a resurrection of dead saints.

Rev 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.
13 And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them.
14 And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.
15 And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe.
KJV
I do not believe that once the rapture happens, that there will be new believers to become saved. The saints in 14:12 will have been those who had received Christ before the time was up and will have a chance to be martyred, but no new members once the WRATH of God begins.

Rev 14:13 And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them.​

Who are these? Are they believers that die after the resurrection in Rev 12?

 

[dianegcook]

4afaithfulone
I explained this in the topic of "the cloud of witnesses"
Rev.12: I believe the 15th post.
Refer to it,

 

[4afaithfulone]

4afaithfulone
I believe 2Cor.12:2-4 is speaking of John.
I believe there are 3 world and heaven ages, as I stated somewhere in one of my post.
1st
Satan guarding the mercy seat, then rebelled
2nd
This earth and heaven age, flesh
3rd
The age to come.
Thus John in Rev, was taken in the spirit to the day of the Lord. The 3rd heaven.

Yes, there was a first heaven and earth that Adam was of and is mentioned in Gen.1:1, then by Gen.1:2 corruption fill the earth and then came the flood of Noah's time at the end of the first world. We are in the second heaven and earth age, awaiting the new heaven and earth, the Wedding on the 3rd day. Adam and Eve were given their reproductive flesh with organs for Eve to have the children in her own body after the fall as part of her punishment. We are returning to our spiritual bodies through Christ the last Adam.
2 Peter 2:4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;
5 And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth person, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly;
KJV
Here is where the history of the heavens and earth begins with Adam.
Gen 2:4 These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens,
5 And every plant of the field before it was in the earth, and every herb of the field before it grew: for the LORD God had not caused it to rain upon the earth, and there was not a man to till the ground.
6 But there went up a mist from the earth, and watered the whole face of the ground.
7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
8 And the LORD God planted a garden eastward in Eden; and there he put the man whom he had formed.
KJV

 

[4afaithfulone]

Yes, in one day and Yahweh will not shut the womb as they are being brought forth. Also, those verses say nothing about a rapture of living saints. They are talking about a resurrection of dead saints.

Rev 14:13 And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them.​

Who are these? Are they believers that die after the resurrection in Rev 12?

The whole holy ones 144,000 body of Christ will be caught up in the clouds.
Did the bodies who came out of their graves at Jesus death, come out one at a time, or all together the same day as his resurrection? All at the same time and so shall those who are birthed to heavenly Jerusalem because it will be midway through the 7 yrs on a Feast of Tabernacles.
When I told you to remember the virgins who say Lord, Lord, but were not recognized by Jesus as his body and left behind, it is because they were not mature in Christ at the rapture. And they will go through the great Tribulation, but have already been saved to live again before the time is up and the Wrath of God is poured out. So these will not be caught up in the rapture, but can be martyred to make heaven. They are the saints that must have patience for they are going through the Great Tribulation, but will be over taken in the end. But when that great Tribulation begins, no more can make the heavenly hope, except those who were not ready and will be martyred.
John 7:2 Now the Jews' feast of tabernacles was at hand.
KJV
John 7:6 Then Jesus said unto them, My time is not yet come: but your time is alway ready.
7 The world cannot hate you; but me it hateth, because I testify of it, that the works thereof are evil.
8 Go ye up unto this feast: I go not up yet unto this feast; for my time is not yet full come.
9 When he had said these words unto them, he abode still in Galilee.
10 But when his brethren were gone up, then went he also up unto the feast, not openly, but as it were in secret.
11 Then the Jews sought him at the feast, and said, Where is he?
12 And there was much murmuring among the people concerning him: for some said, He is a good man: others said, Nay; but he deceiveth the people.
13 Howbeit no man spake openly of him for fear of the Jews.
14 Now about the midst of the feast Jesus went up into the temple, and taught.
KJV
For those with ears to hear.

 

[jocor]

Did the bodies who came out of their graves at Jesus death, come out one at a time, or all together the same day as his resurrection? All at the same time and so shall those who are birthed to heavenly Jerusalem because it will be midway through the 7 yrs on a Feast of Tabernacles.

Where do you get the words I underlined in Scripture?

When I told you to remember the virgins who say Lord, Lord, but were not recognized by Jesus as his body and left behind, it is because they were not mature in Christ at the rapture. And they will go through the great Tribulation, but have already been saved to live again before the time is up and the Wrath of God is poured out. So these will not be caught up in the rapture, but can be martyred to make heaven.

Yeshu says to them, "Depart from me you workers of iniquity (lawlessness) I never knew you." Matthew 7:21 says they will NOT enter the Kingdom of heaven. What verse says they will make heaven after they are martyred?

They are the saints that must have patience for they are going through the Great Tribulation, but will be over taken in the end. But when that great Tribulation begins, no more can make the heavenly hope, except those who were not ready and will be martyred.

The Great Tribulation has already ended by the time Rev 14:13 takes place. The Great Tribulation ends BEFORE the heavenly signs of the 6th seal begin (Mt 24:29; Rev 6:12-14).

John 7:2 Now the Jews' feast of tabernacles was at hand.
KJV
John 7:6 Then Jesus said unto them, My time is not yet come: but your time is alway ready.
7 The world cannot hate you; but me it hateth, because I testify of it, that the works thereof are evil.
8 Go ye up unto this feast: I go not up yet unto this feast; for my time is not yet full come.
9 When he had said these words unto them, he abode still in Galilee.
10 But when his brethren were gone up, then went he also up unto the feast, not openly, but as it were in secret.
11 Then the Jews sought him at the feast, and said, Where is he?
12 And there was much murmuring among the people concerning him: for some said, He is a good man: others said, Nay; but he deceiveth the people.
13 Howbeit no man spake openly of him for fear of the Jews.
14 Now about the midst of the feast Jesus went up into the temple, and taught.
KJV
For those with ears to hear.

I guess I don't have ears to hear because I have no idea why you quoted this passage.

 

[dianegcook]

Where do you get the words I underlined in Scripture?



Yeshu says to them, "Depart from me you workers of iniquity (lawlessness) I never knew you." Matthew 7:21 says they will NOT enter the Kingdom of heaven. What verse says they will make heaven after they are martyred?



The Great Tribulation has already ended by the time Rev 14:13 takes place. The Great Tribulation ends BEFORE the heavenly signs of the 6th seal begin (Mt 24:29; Rev 6:12-14).



I guess I don't have ears to hear because I have no idea why you quoted this passage.

Jocor
Now you have me confused, lol.
You said the trib ends before the seals.
I disagree.
Rev.9: is the trib.

 

[jocor]

Jocor
Now you have me confused, lol.
You said the trib ends before the seals.
I disagree.
Rev.9: is the trib.

Rev 9 is during the Day of Yahweh. The first judgment after the 7th seal is opened and the Day of Yahweh begins will be the first of seven trumpets. Rev 9 includes the 5th & 6th trumpets. Do you have a verse saying Rev 9 is the tribulation? How do you explain Yeshua's words in Mt 24 that the heavenly signs occur "immediately after" the greatest tribulation that will ever hit the Earth (Mt 24:21, 29)?

 

[mswright6488]

Who do you believe is in that image?

.

Thank you Gary.....

 

[mswright6488]

mswright6488, may I ask you who that is in your avatar?

Why do you ask me that? It is Jesus of course