How can this be?

[Gary]

Why do you ask me that?

Have a look at post 31.
.

 

[dianegcook]

Rev 9 is during the Day of Yahweh. The first judgment after the 7th seal is opened and the Day of Yahweh begins will be the first of seven trumpets. Rev 9 includes the 5th & 6th trumpets. Do you have a verse saying Rev 9 is the tribulation? How do you explain Yeshua's words in Mt 24 that the heavenly signs occur "immediately after" the greatest tribulation that will ever hit the Earth (Mt 24:21, 29)?

Rev.9:

Satan and his angels are loosed from the pit.
They were commanded not to hurt the grass of the earth, nor any green thing, but only those which have not the seal of God in their foreheads.
Rev.11.15-
7th trump
The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord and his Christ. The Lords day

Did you know that Matt.24:has the 7 trumps?
Verse 21, then shall be great tribulation,
24,false prophets showing great signs and wonders, insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
29, after the trib, of those days
Shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven, they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds with power and great glory. (The 7 th trump, the day of the Lord)
31, shall gather his elect (the so called rapture)
Except, He is going to reign here. Those that have died will God bring with Him.

 

[jocor]

Rev.9:

Satan and his angels are loosed from the pit.
They were commanded not to hurt the grass of the earth, nor any green thing, but only those which have not the seal of God in their foreheads.
Rev.11.15-
7th trump
The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord and his Christ. The Lords day

These verses say nothing about the Great Tribulation. We both agree, however, that the 7th trumpet is the trumpet mentioned in Mt 24:31. That trumpet is blown AFTER the Great Tribulation ends (Mt 24:29).

Did you know that Matt.24:has the 7 trumps?
Verse 21, then shall be great tribulation,
24,false prophets showing great signs and wonders, insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
29, after the trib, of those days
Shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven, they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds with power and great glory. (The 7 th trump, the day of the Lord)
31, shall gather his elect (the so called rapture)
Except, He is going to reign here. Those that have died will God bring with Him.

Mt 24 only mentions the 7th trumpet which signals the resurrection of the dead. In Mt.24, Messiah foretells the conditions that will arise shortly before his return to resurrect the dead. Each seal of Rev 6 is spoken of by Yeshua in that chapter. In verses 3-8 he foretells of false messiahs and deceivers, wars, famines, and diseases that will lead to the death of many. Each of these events parallels the first four seals. Despite these calamities, Yeshua says that they are only "the beginning of sorrows" (vs.8). This is the beginning of the tribulation period. Things will get progressively worse after these four seals.

The fifth seal pictures the martyrdom of the saints spoken of in Mt 24:9. The original assembly, the early saints, experienced terrible persecution at the hands of both Romans and Jews. Those that lost their lives cry out (figuratively speaking) for justice but they are told to wait until the full number of believers are killed (Rev 6:11). In other words, the number of saints to be killed is fixed. Once this number is reached the "great tribulation" ends. How do I arrive at that conclusion? Mt.24:21 mentions a period of tribulation that will never be exceeded in intensity. Immediately after that great tribulation the heavenly signs of the sixth seal will occur (Mt.24:29). Therefore, the great tribulation ends between the fifth and sixth seals.

To sum up the events, the first five seals are the great tribulation. Once the great tribulation ends, the fifth seal ends and the sixth seal begins. After the sixth seal ends the great day of Yahweh's wrath will soon begin (Rev.6:17). This is known as the "Day of Yahweh" throughout scripture and it is not to be confused with the great tribulation. Joel 2:31 shows the heavenly signs occurring before the Day of Yahweh and Mt.24:29 shows them occurring after the great tribulation. Therefore, the heavenly signs are the dividing point between the great tribulation and the Day of Yahweh.

 

[mswright6488]

oh my goodness... Thank you Gary. I do not understand what so ever. I want to say more, but I can't. I saw this little girl on the 700 club one time. She had VISIONS of heaven and Jesus and this is how she saw him!!!! UGH!!!!!!!!!. Help us Lord to have patience and love toward those who don't understand what they are saying.

 

[dianegcook]

These verses say nothing about the Great Tribulation. We both agree, however, that the 7th trumpet is the trumpet mentioned in Mt 24:31. That trumpet is blown AFTER the Great Tribulation ends (Mt 24:29).



Mt 24 only mentions the 7th trumpet which signals the resurrection of the dead. In Mt.24, Messiah foretells the conditions that will arise shortly before his return to resurrect the dead. Each seal of Rev 6 is spoken of by Yeshua in that chapter. In verses 3-8 he foretells of false messiahs and deceivers, wars, famines, and diseases that will lead to the death of many. Each of these events parallels the first four seals. Despite these calamities, Yeshua says that they are only "the beginning of sorrows" (vs.8). This is the beginning of the tribulation period. Things will get progressively worse after these four seals.

The fifth seal pictures the martyrdom of the saints spoken of in Mt 24:9. The original assembly, the early saints, experienced terrible persecution at the hands of both Romans and Jews. Those that lost their lives cry out (figuratively speaking) for justice but they are told to wait until the full number of believers are killed (Rev 6:11). In other words, the number of saints to be killed is fixed. Once this number is reached the "great tribulation" ends. How do I arrive at that conclusion? Mt.24:21 mentions a period of tribulation that will never be exceeded in intensity. Immediately after that great tribulation the heavenly signs of the sixth seal will occur (Mt.24:29). Therefore, the great tribulation ends between the fifth and sixth seals.

To sum up the events, the first five seals are the great tribulation. Once the great tribulation ends, the fifth seal ends and the sixth seal begins. After the sixth seal ends the great day of Yahweh's wrath will soon begin (Rev.6:17). This is known as the "Day of Yahweh" throughout scripture and it is not to be confused with the great tribulation. Joel 2:31 shows the heavenly signs occurring before the Day of Yahweh and Mt.24:29 shows them occurring after the great tribulation. Therefore, the heavenly signs are the dividing point between the great tribulation and the Day of Yahweh.

As I have told you, I believe the seals are the knowledge of the 7 trumps being sealed in their foreheads, so they will recognize them when they sound, put in action.
Also, how can you not think that Rev.9: is not the trib.?
Satan coming to deceive,
And as you stated about the seals, but not grasping, it is the action of the seals that are the trumps.

 

[dianegcook]

oh my goodness... Thank you Gary. I do not understand what so ever. I want to say more, but I can't. I saw this little girl on the 700 club one time. She had VISIONS of heaven and Jesus and this is how she saw him!!!! UGH!!!!!!!!!. Help us Lord to have patience and love toward those who don't understand what they are saying.

I understand what I am saying,
Maybe I can't get my point across to you plainly.
May the Lord give us all patience.

 

[dianegcook]

I will try it a different way.
My mom told me that we will have supper at 8 , she will ring a bell.
I am SEALED with this.
When she rings the bell, (trump) I know it is 8 and supper was ready.
If I was not SEALED with this knowledge, I wouldn't know what it meant when the bell rung.

 

[jocor]

As I have told you, I believe the seals are the knowledge of the 7 trumps being sealed in their foreheads, so they will recognize them when they sound, put in action.
Also, how can you not think that Rev.9: is not the trib.?
Satan coming to deceive,
And as you stated about the seals, but not grasping, it is the action of the seals that are the trumps.

I disagree. They are two separate periods of time. No trumpets will blow until the 7th seal is opened. If you believe otherwise, it is probably because you do not read Revelation chronologically.

The seven seals are the main events of the book and must take place in succession. The seventh seal, for example, cannot precede the fourth seal and the second seal cannot occur after the sixth seal, etc. Otherwise the purpose of numbering each seal would be meaningless. The seventh seal contains all seven trumpets which means no trumpet can take place before the opening of the seventh seal. The seventh trumpet contains the seven last plagues which means none of the plagues can occur before the seventh trumpet or before the seventh seal.

Have you ever received a gift box and, upon opening it, found another box inside, and another inside that box, etc.? Try to understand the seven seals in that sense. You are given six gifts, one after the other (the first six seals). Then you are given a seventh gift (seventh seal) that you open and, inside, find seven more boxes (seven trumpets). After you open the first six and then the seventh, you find seven more boxes inside (seven last plagues). After you finish opening the seventh and last box (seventh plague) you have finished opening all your gifts. There were fourteen boxes altogether in that seventh gift box you received. There are seven trumpets and seven last plagues contained in the seventh seal that cannot occur before the seventh seal is opened.

 

[reba]

oh my goodness... Thank you Gary. I do not understand what so ever. I want to say more, but I can't. I saw this little girl on the 700 club one time. She had VISIONS of heaven and Jesus and this is how she saw him!!!! UGH!!!!!!!!!. Help us Lord to have patience and love toward those who don't understand what they are saying.

We really dont know what Jesus really looks like. Except we know He was a simple ordinary looking Jewish man.. That is a simple fact... YET we all know a picture of Jesus when we see one..
Some folks dont like the use of supposed pictures of Jesus... Personally i dont see a problem unless the picture becomes an idol to you...

 

[jocor]

I will try it a different way.
My mom told me that we will have supper at 8 , she will ring a bell.
I am SEALED with this.
When she rings the bell, (trump) I know it is 8 and supper was ready.
If I was not SEALED with this knowledge, I wouldn't know what it meant when the bell rung.

The seals are not simply knowledge. Physical things are happening when each seal is opened. One seal brings war, another brings famine, etc.

 

[reba]

jocor where is Scripture do you find the phrase " the great tribulation" ?

 

[jocor]

jocor where is Scripture do you find the phrase " the great tribulation" ?

That phrase with "the" in it is not found in Scripture. It only reads "great tribulation."

Mat 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

Rev 7:14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.​

However, the tribulation mentioned in Mt 24:21 is the greatest there will ever be. Therefore, it is "THE great tribulation."

 

[reba]

Would you consider Noah's flood to be tribulation?

 

[jocor]

Would you consider Noah's flood to be tribulation?

Yes.

 

[dianegcook]

Rev.6:17
His wrath is come
Rev.9:18
Thy wrath is come

Rev.16:19
To give unto her the cup of his wrath.

Now you can disagree with my beliefs , that' s okay.
His wrath and coming does not come 3 times.

Good day

 

[dianegcook]

Do you not consider Rev.12:9-17 the great tribulation?

 

[jocor]

Do you not consider Rev.12:9-17 the great tribulation?

Definitely not. That takes place AFTER the heavenly signs of the 6th seal. Yeshua said the tribulation ended BEFORE the heavenly signs (Mt 24:29).

 

[reba]

Yes.

All the world died but 8 folks... in your thoughts will all the world die in the trib except something less then 8 ?
Sorry about not really looking at your other post more closely ...

 

[jocor]

All the world died but 8 folks... in your thoughts will all the world die in the trib except something less then 8 ?
Sorry about not really looking at your other post more closely ...

I believe there will many more than 8 left alive. It seems to me that at least 144,000 saints will be left alive to be sealed in preparation for the Day of Yahweh.

 

[reba]

I believe there will many more than 8 left alive. It seems to me that at least 144,000 saints will be left alive to be sealed in preparation for the Day of Yahweh.

However, the tribulation mentioned in Mt 24:21 is the greatest there will ever be. Therefore, it is "THE great tribulation."

MY question is what makes this trib the greatest.?