How can you say, "ALL the Bible is directly from God"?

[A-Christian]

I think that the Bible is the inspired word of God.

 

[Catholic Crusader]

I think that the Bible is the inspired word of God.

Amen. I agree.

 

[mutzrein]

May I ask how you received the Holy Spirit?

I don't think there is any one simple answer to that question.

I believe I received the Spirit when my sins were washed from me in Baptism, and I believe I was strengthened with the Holy Spirit through the sacrament of Confirmation. These are sacramental liturgical events and they are very inportant.

But on a more personal level, I pray to God daily, and ask my Father in heaven, in the name of Jesus, to strengthen me with His Spirit and give me the grace I need to be a good Christian. This is very important to me too.

You see, I believe that those Catholics who participate in the sacraments and the liturgy without any interior conversion of heart are merely going through sterile motions. But, I also believe that my non-Catholic brethren who have sincere hearts yet reject the seven sacraments instituted by Christ have rejected beautiful gifts Christ gave to His Bride, the Church.

For some people, its an "either/or" matter, but for me its a "both/and" matter.

Hey CC. I'd like to continue this conversation with you if that is OK but as Vic as pointed out, it seems it may not fit into this thread. Suggest a thread if you'd like to carry on somewhere else.

Thanks

 

[Veritas]

vic and handy, I really appreciate the way you handled this thread. Rather than "brow beating me", as some would do, you have approached it with the best attitudes I know. Not only just on THIS thread, but I've noticed the same thing on other threads. handy, I was looking at another topic and one of your posts. You have a gentleness of spirit that I admire!

Yes, I'd have to say that I often find vic and handy's responses edifying as well. And Orion, I do admire you're honesty and open concern for the Truth. I think much good can come out of asking questions. I have to chuckle at the "brow beating" (I have a tendency of doing this). Anyways, its good to see some open and love-filled talk between brothers and sisters in Christ. It's a blessing.

 

[Orion]

Yes, openness and honestly are good qualities. Gentleness and patience are ALSO excellent qualities shared by the aformentioned. What I do not abide with is those who "brow beat" using their "uber religiosity" and harsh words in some odd attempt to make you see things their way. Some people are just TOO pious for me to be comfortable around. One thing to remember about me. . . . as I see it, fervency of one's own faith does not make what they believe to be THE truth!

 

[Orion]

Back to topic, . . . .the subject of Psalms 22 and Matthew 27:33 ---> was brought up. I see some similarities, but I also have to wonder. . .

1. Where does it say that "all of Jesus bones were out of joint"?
2. Jesus walked from point A, where he was vicsiously beaten and bloodied, to point B, where this crusifiction took place. . . . .many saying that the commonly seen (on paintings) garment around the waist would not have actually been there, but they probably crusified people naked. Regardless of whether or not there was some waist garment, it would have been super saturated with blood. Correct?. . . . . . . . What clothes were being "lot casted" over? He was being sent their to die. There would be no "change of clothes" there for him!

Are these points just the inclusions of an early Christian church writer trying to make prophecy out of Psalms 22 in some sort of attempt of credibility?

 

[Veritas]

Yeah... I think the soldiers were casting lots over his bloodied garments. It definately would take hardened people to do that but they were soldiers. I would assume a war-torn soldier today might relate to this mindset. They probably didn't care and just wanted it because they thought the cloth could be worth something if it was cleaned up. Apparently, it was a big chunk being seamless.

I'd assume the part about Jesus bones being out of joint is literally figurative (like how I said that? :wink: ). Anyways, that part comes right in the description about him being poured out like water, and his heart is like wax, and it's melting in his bowels. Seems like plainly figurative language.

But you bring up a good thing to look at because the prophecies are so intrigueing in the ways they are laid out. We can read that Psalm and see how it might relate to Job, or David, or Daniel, or us, but we have a perspective directly into Jesus life too. And the Psalm seems to zoom in and out of that, focusing on Jesus again at the end. I've heard it described as foreshortened perspective. That sometimes when reading prophetic passages the events are like looking at mountaintops in the distance (they may be far apart but look right behind eachother). This kinda makes sense considering God would have that perspective being outside of time.

 

[handy]

Good questions Orion!

The bones being out of joint is not specifically stated in the Crucifixion accounts in the gospels that I know of. But, there are many articles on the effects of crucifixion on the body, and one of the many effects is that the force of gravity on the body often causes bones, especially the shoulders and elbows to be pulled out of joint. Also, the greatest cause of death in crucifixion was asphyxiation. In order to breathe, the victim had to often push himself up on either the nail at the feet, or from a little platform that was often placed either at the victims feet or groin area. The pushing up on the stressed joints was another reason why so many suffered bone and joint damage. Keep in mind that death by crucifixion was not (I should say isn't, because believe it or not there are still some countries that practice this barbaric custom) an experience that had a set way about it. Many died from asphyxiation, but some also died from heart failure (most probable in the case of Christ), blood loss, dehydration, exhaustion, the list goes on. It could take anywhere from a couple of hours to a couple of days and there are many varibles such as the physical condition of the victim, the weather, and the method of crucifixion.

Regarding the casting of lots for the clothing, this is something that all four of the gospel writers agree happened. John adds the detail that Christ's tunic was seamless and therefore the soldiers didn't want to tear it. Why did they want His bloodied clothing? The Bible doesn't give us the specific reason for why they did what they did. There are a number of plausible explanations though. It could be anything from the very practical reason that Roman soldiers weren't paid all that much and clothes were clothes and could be washed to the gruesome habit of people from all times and cultures to collect 'souvenirs' and offer them up for sale. We could only speculate.

 

[Veritas]

But, there are many articles on the effects of crucifixion on the body, and one of the many effects is that the force of gravity on the body often causes bones, especially the shoulders and elbows to be pulled out of joint.

Did not know that handy! Very interesting! I learned something new. I stand corrected on my view. And that's another thing I find so intriguing about the Bible. Many things like that can be read on a symbolic/figurative level, but also relate to an actual real event. Brings alot of depth to the reading!

 

[Vic C.]

Regarding the casting of lots for the clothing, this is something that all four of the gospel writers agree happened. John adds the detail that Christ's tunic was seamless and therefore the soldiers didn't want to tear it.

Who knows why the garment was seamless and why wouldn't they want to tear it? No cheating! :