How did Jesus Christ save us?

[childeye]

Another interesting perspective on this is that the Lord Jesus Christ has ALREADY SAVED every last person in Adam, past, present, and future.. because if the wages of sin is death, and all men shall be raised from the dead... then evidently He must have paid for all our sins.. otherwise.. how could men be raised from the dead if Christ didn't die for their sins, for the sin of the world ?

The just and the unjust will be raised from the dead.. from death, it's a simple biblical fact.

Now how could that happen if the penalty of sin was not paid for by the precious shed blood of Jesus Christ ?

There's also what's called a second death... how come ?

Good post Eventide. I've thought the same things many times. I believe Jesus' death and resurrection allowed Christ to free the prisoners from the first death because he was sinless. Therefore death according to the first Covenant had no power over him and Jesus was caught up to the throne of God having the keys to death and destroying Satan's power under the Old Covenant.

 

[Eventide]

We view salvation generally as entering heaven. I suppose more properly, we would be just, then not just, then just again, if we were to be baptized, later commit a serious (mortal) sin, and then later repent of that sin. Or spiritually alive, then dead, then alive again. Or "in Christ", not in Christ and "in Christ again...

However, if I was to answer your question based on YOUR definition of "salvation", I would say no, we are not saved/unsaved/saved...

Regards

The problem is that it's not my definition.. the scriptures clearly teach (imo) that it's impossible to be saved again (a second time) because that would mean crucifying Christ again.. and again that's not possible.

I see the scriptures teaching that the Spirit of God in a 'saved' person can be grieved or quenched, and that there is a sin unto death.. but not that a person can be saved and then saved again.. that's impossible.

 

[Sinthesis]

I think this thread could more aptly be entitled "How DOES Jesus Christ save us?":waving

"How is Jesus Christ saving us?"
"How will our salvation by Jesus Christ unfold?"

also:

Who or what exactly is "us"?
Can "us" be something other than individual sinners?
If "God so loved the world" then wouldn't He provide to save the "world" in some way?

 

[Sinthesis]

I believe that man's free will is not removed after regeneration. We can continue to grieve the Spirit of God, we can even return to the vomit of our former lives and make a shipwreck of our faith. There is a particular synergy between us and God. God provides another guiding principle within us, the Spirit of God. But it does not override our temptations and desires automatically. Thus, Paul calls this a spiritual "battle" and arms us accordingly in Ephesians. Paul also uses military and other competitive language that strongly suggests that sanctification is not entirely up to God, but also depends upon ourselves, the secondary causes...

Imagine enlisting in God's Army and then claiming you now needn't follow orders nor abide by any code of conduct.
;)

 

[francisdesales]

I do listen!!! God works in ways we can't readily discern.

You are correct, sorry. I was speaking of listening to the apostles and the Church that continues, as Jesus established it.

Was my confirmation a seed sown that sprouted later? I cannot deny this is possible in my own case. But what of the others?

Adullam, we cannot say when that seed will sprout. For me, it took several decades. I think of the parable of the prodigal son. From this story, we are told that God will continue to wait for us. There is that possibility that there will not be a return. There is no magic involved, any experience of Christ does not override our free will decision to reject it and continue in the life of sin... That would include any sacrament, bible reading, prayer, etc... As you know, God places value in our faith in Him, thus, He doesn't force us or override that "faith in things unseen".

There are just so many conundrums when it comes to the church...what it is! Can the church be any one of a number of institutions that claim to be the bona fide representation of the church?

I'm looking more at history and the promise that Christ would not allow that visible community to fail. It still stands, covering the world. Is every one devout? Of course not. God's seed is not always going to bear fruit. He allows that.

Or rather are we confronted or presented with a variety of churches (as per Revelations) each having strong and weak points.

The local churches of Revelation had one faith, one belief, one Eucharist. I do believe that my ecclesiastically separated brothers are united to us in some mysterious way, but not enough to consider us united at the level of the churches in Turkey.

However, if we take a more broad view, I can see what you are saying regarding "strong points" and "weak points". But this is a function of ecclesiology, not the Church proper. There is only one Bride of Christ.

The early church was directly instructed and "instituted" by the apostles (not made into institutions...that came later). After Constantine the waters are muddied to a large extent...taking the small flock of disciples into a mass "conversion" where everyone was now a Christian. Or so it was said.

People willingly were baptized, the "mass conversion" was a result of not having to risk one's life to become Catholic. I suppose this idea you make above is whether you expect the Church to be "perfect" in this world or not. I view the Church as a hospital, and there are a lot of sick people out there, spiritually speaking. Some are at different stages of "disease". God's "arms" are open to them, and I don't think He is waiting for a person to be "really, truly devout" before He Wills to have the Church minister to them.

If one narrows the "Church" down to the really righteous, devout, followers of Christ, I can understand your view. But I don't view the Church in that way - i believe God's plan is more broad, esp. when He desires all men to be saved.

Are we saved by belonging to a church?

The Church is the Body of Christ, correct? Must we not abide in Him and He in us to be saved?

Or rather, are we being saved together within the church, each sharing the gift he has received from God!

I don't see the need for the "or" in that statement. We are saved by being part of the Body, sharing our gifts received by God.

Blessings Joe!!!

And you too, brother

 

[francisdesales]

The problem is that it's not my definition.. the scriptures clearly teach (imo) that it's impossible to be saved again (a second time) because that would mean crucifying Christ again.. and again that's not possible.

My friend,

The word "salvation" has several meanings. I am not denying your definition exists. The bible speaks of being saved in the past tense, in the present, and in the future. They do not mean the same thing.

Certainly, you can only have the death of Christ applied to you ONE time. So yes, you are correct in your Hebrews' reference. But Paul also speaks of salvation in the future that is not guaranteed yet. Peter speaks of this, as well.

I see the scriptures teaching that the Spirit of God in a 'saved' person can be grieved or quenched, and that there is a sin unto death.. but not that a person can be saved and then saved again.. that's impossible.

Using your definition of salvation as a past event, true.

Using our ordinary defintion of salvation as a future event, that depends on our walk in Christ. It can change back and forth.

Regards

 

[francisdesales]

Imagine enlisting in God's Army and then claiming you now needn't follow orders nor abide by any code of conduct.
;)

LOL!

That didn't work out well for me in the Marines the one time I thought that..

.

Regards

 

[Eventide]

Using our ordinary defintion of salvation as a future event, that depends on our walk in Christ. It can change back and forth.

Regards

I disagree completely.. it's impossible to be saved, then not saved, and then saved again... at least according to the scripture which I have referenced.. that would be crucifying Christ again and putting Him to open shame.

 

[Adullam]

I disagree completely.. it's impossible to be saved, then not saved, and then saved again... at least according to the scripture which I have referenced.. that would be crucifying Christ again and putting Him to open shame.

I think rather on the path that leads to salvation we sometimes stray from the path. As long as we get back on the path and finish on the path...we will be saved.

 

[Eventide]

I think rather on the path that leads to salvation we sometimes stray from the path. As long as we get back on the path and finish on the path...we will be saved.

I would agree that we sometimes stray (because sin does beset us at times) although that does not mean that we're saved, then not saved, and then saved again.. that's impossible.

 

[Eventide]

Would everyone agree that it's impossible to be saved, then not saved, and then saved again ?

IMO it's a pretty important question.

What think ye ?

 

[Grubal Muruch]

Would everyone agree that it's impossible to be saved, then not saved, and then saved again ?

IMO it's a pretty important question.

What think ye ?

You can ONLY be saved once...And once you've been saved you cannot lose that Salvation...

 

[Adullam]

You can ONLY be saved once...And once you've been saved you cannot lose that Salvation...

This is very wrong of course. We can be saved many times. David was saved from the lion and the bear...AND Goliath (among other salvations).

In fact in Hebrew the "cup of salvation" is actually plural (cup of salvations) or Kos Yeshou-ot!

The wrong approach is this magic salvation where only the good things count. We see this type of dishonest behaviour in sports such as golf...where a person will minimize how many strokes it actually took to sink the ball in the hole.

Such behaviour in UNRIGHTEOUS!


So if we are found to be unrighteous while we seek to be covered by the righteousness of Christ...where does that leave us?

Rom 3:5 But if our unrighteousness commend the righteousness of God, what shall we say? Is God unrighteous who taketh vengeance? (I speak as a man)
Rom 3:6 God forbid: for then how shall God judge the world?

 

[Grubal Muruch]

This is very wrong of course. We can be saved many times. David was saved from the lion and the bear...AND Goliath (among other salvations).

In fact in Hebrew the "cup of salvation" is actually plural (cup of salvations) or Kos Yeshou-ot!

The wrong approach is this magic salvation where only the good things count. We see this type of dishonest behaviour in sports such as golf...where a person will minimize how many strokes it actually took to sink the ball in the hole.

Such behaviour in UNRIGHTEOUS!




So if we are found to be unrighteous while we seek to be covered by the righteousness of Christ...where does that leave us?

Rom 3:5 But if our unrighteousness commend the righteousness of God, what shall we say? Is God unrighteous who taketh vengeance? (I speak as a man)
Rom 3:6 God forbid: for then how shall God judge the world?

Evidently you don't understand the topic or the concept...

 

[Adullam]

Evidently you don't understand the topic or the concept...

I understand the error very much. It doesn't fit into any reality. It certainly is not biblical.

 

[Adullam]

Evidently you don't understand the topic or the concept...

I understand the error very much. It doesn't fit into any reality. It certainly is not biblical.

 

[Grubal Muruch]

I understand the error very much. It doesn't fit into any reality. It certainly is not biblical.

What error??

 

[Adullam]

Luk_7:50 And he said to the woman, Thy faith hath saved thee; go in peace.


Luk 7:44 And he turned to the woman, and said unto Simon, Seest thou this woman? I entered into thine house, thou gavest me no water for my feet: but she hath washed my feet with tears, and wiped them with the hairs of her head.
Luk 7:45 Thou gavest me no kiss: but this woman since the time I came in hath not ceased to kiss my feet.
Luk 7:46 My head with oil thou didst not anoint: but this woman hath anointed my feet with ointment.
Luk 7:47 Wherefore I say unto thee, Her sins, which are many, are forgiven; for she loved much: but to whom little is forgiven, the same loveth little.
Luk 7:48 And he said unto her, Thy sins are forgiven.
Luk 7:49 And they that sat at meat with him began to say within themselves, Who is this that forgiveth sins also?
Luk 7:50 And he said to the woman, Thy faith hath saved thee; go in peace.

This salvation is not a permanent status that ignores any future rebelliousness. She was made right with God through her faith in action.

Do you notice that she never said a word..but only her faith was showing????

 

[Adullam]

What error??

The error of creating a religion that is outside of reality based on a religious idea garnered from a faulty reading of the bible.

The idea that salvation once cancels out all reality.

 

[glorydaz]

What error??

The error is thinking that the word "saved" is always referring to our eternal salvation in Christ.

That's the only error I'm seeing here.