How did understanding and embracing Preterism affect your faith?

[Dorothy Mae]

Dear brothers and sisters, if any of you would be so kind as to give us a testimony of how leaving the more commonly held eschatology of futurists and embracing preterism affected your faith, I’d be very interested.

This is not intended as a debate about the details or the different varies per se, but more how understanding changed your faith.

I’ll prime the pump. When I heard a lecture on this I looked into the writings of Josephus and the dawning that the horrible events described in Mathew 24 and Revelation match the events leading up to the fall of Jerusalem in 70 AD, several scriptures fell into place and joy ensued. The was a freedom and a hope for my life, my children’s and the world. It is akin to the joy of experiencing your sins being forgiven and that burden lifted. To see that the prophetic words of Jesus as to the timing of the horrible events he spoke of march perfectly with actual historical events was thrilling. He knew and he told the truth. Many scriptures that had made no sense suddenly made sense. I felt a freedom intellectually and emotionally. Anyone else care to share?

 

[journeyman]

Hi Dorothy Mae.
I don't know if this qualifies as preterism, but I see much of what the Bible says about end times applying to believers in any time period, whether in the past or future. Some of it is probable about a specific time, but I think for the most part it's for all the people of God. Why I think this way is that suffering doesn't really change, except for the amount of people going through it.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Hi Dorothy Mae.
I don't know if this qualifies as preterism, but I see much of what the Bible says about end times applying to believers in any time period, whether in the past or future. Some of it is probable about a specific time, but I think for the most part it's for all the people of God. Why I think this way is that suffering doesn't really change, except for the amount of people going through it.

Certainly there are parts that apply to everyone.

 

[journeyman]

Certainly there are parts that apply to everyone.

What was it about Josephus that made scripture fall into place?

 

[journeyman]

One of the things that struck me was how in Lk.17:32 Jesus said, "Remember Lots' wife." I found that very strange, because Lk.17 is like Mt.24 and who would see trouble coming and want to run toward it?
I think our Savior was warning his followers about things that would be clear to us, but not unbelievers. For instance, chaos is going on, but people are eating and drinking, marrying, going on with their lives, apparently oblivious to the danger.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

What was it about Josephus that made scripture fall into place?

Working on a coherent detailed answer

 

[Dorothy Mae]

One of the things that struck me was how in Lk.17:32 Jesus said, "Remember Lots' wife." I found that very strange, because Lk.17 is like Mt.24 and who would see trouble coming and want to run toward it?
I think our Savior was warning his followers about things that would be clear to us, but not unbelievers. For instance, chaos is going on, but people are eating and drinking, marrying, going on with their lives, apparently oblivious to the danger.

This matches the warning to leave Jerusalem as soon as you see the armies surrounding her. All the believers left and none perished in its fall because they heeded the prophesy of Jesus.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

What was it about Josephus that made scripture fall into place?

I’ve been thinking about this request and reviewing the details again. Do you want the terrible events in the years leading up to and including 70 AD that match the woes of judgement poured out? They are pretty gross.

The realization that Jesus told the truth in his prophesy was actually what thrilled me too. That is, those who pierced him experienced the judgement. Jesus said it would be that generation and it was. He said he (the judgement) was coming soon and so it was. There were signs in the heavens such as a comet in the shape of a scimitar over Jerusalem for a year. There were other celestial signs reported. The christian’s knew his predictions were coming and left Jerusalem. Good thing! Jesus said that not one stone would be left upon another and so it was. Some of the parables became clear as well.

How much detail do you want?

 

[journeyman]

This matches the warning to leave Jerusalem as soon as you see the armies surrounding her. All the believers left and none perished in its fall because they heeded the prophesy of Jesus.

As far as leaving possessions behind it matches, but in Luke, Jesus seems to be referring to his 2nd coming,

Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed. Lk.17:30

He seems to be talking about another time frame, because what person in their right mind would see an army coming to destroy to destroy his city and have to remember Lots' wife? Wouldn't a normal reaction be, "Let's get out of here."

 

[journeyman]

I’ve been thinking about this request and reviewing the details again. Do you want the terrible events in the years leading up to and including 70 AD that match the woes of judgement poured out? They are pretty gross.

The realization that Jesus told the truth in his prophesy was actually what thrilled me too. That is, those who pierced him experienced the judgement. Jesus said it would be that generation and it was. He said he (the judgement) was coming soon and so it was. There were signs in the heavens such as a comet in the shape of a scimitar over Jerusalem for a year. There were other celestial signs reported. The christian’s knew his predictions were coming and left Jerusalem. Good thing! Jesus said that not one stone would be left upon another and so it was. Some of the parables became clear as well.

How much detail do you want?

The one stone upon another is enough detail. That matches the events of 70AD. What doesn't match is people being at ease, eating, drinking, attending weddings. He seems to be referring to another time frame, with impending doom not being apparent.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

The one stone upon another is enough detail. That matches the events of 70AD. What doesn't match is people being at ease, eating, drinking, attending weddings. He seems to be referring to another time frame, with impending doom not being apparent.

There are two entirely separate events. Before the terrible events there are lots of signs. That I believe is now past. Before the bodily return there will be no signs at all.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

As far as leaving possessions behind it matches, but in Luke, Jesus seems to be referring to his 2nd coming,

Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed. Lk.17:30

He seems to be talking about another time frame, because what person in their right mind would see an army coming to destroy to destroy his city and have to remember Lots' wife? Wouldn't a normal reaction be, "Let's get out of here."

I don’t quite understand you here. The warning not to look back like Lot’s wife works nicely with the events of 70AD. The army had surrounded the city and for no understandable reason pulled out. It was tempting to assume the danger was gone.

I don’t see it applying to the future. Where is one to go if the whole world is affected and otherwise we don’t live in Jerusalem in any case. Can you amplify please?

 

[Dorothy Mae]

journeyman, The parable culminating in Mark 12:9 fits nicely in with Jesus’ warning to the counsel condemning him. The servants sent were the prophets whim Israel killed, one after the other. The son was sent who was obviously Jesus. The result was God judged and killed those who had condemned and killed Him. Fits perfectly. One understands the parable.

 

[journeyman]

There are two entirely separate events. Before the terrible events there are lots of signs. That I believe is now past. Before the bodily return there will be no signs at all.

Ok, that's what it sounded like to me too.

 

[journeyman]

I don’t quite understand you here. The warning not to look back like Lot’s wife works nicely with the events of 70AD. The army had surrounded the city and for no understandable reason pulled out. It was tempting to assume the danger was gone.

Ok. I wasn't aware of that historical fact.

I don’t see it applying to the future. Where is one to go if the whole world is affected and otherwise we don’t live in Jerusalem in any case. Can you amplify please?

Well, if our Lord was speaking of leaving our old life (like putting our hands to the plow and not turning back), that would make sense.

 

[journeyman]

journeyman, The parable culminating in Mark 12:9 fits nicely in with Jesus’ warning to the counsel condemning him. The servants sent were the prophets whim Israel killed, one after the other. The son was sent who was obviously Jesus. The result was God judged and killed those who had condemned and killed Him. Fits perfectly. One understands the parable.

That makes sense. For many years, I believed the Father was pouring his wrath out on his Son because that's what I was taught In the church I attended. What a wake up call it was when I found out how wrong that idea is.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

That makes sense. For many years, I believed the Father was pouring his wrath out on his Son because that's what I was taught In the church I attended. What a wake up call it was when I found out how wrong that idea is.

It’s a fairly horrible idea. What a monster that makes Him out to be.

When Jesus said the blood of those murdered from Abel to Zechariah would be required of that generation it was in 70AD.

The bloody scenes described in Revelation occurred in the Roman attacks on the cities in Judea.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Ok. I wasn't aware of that historical fact.

Well, if our Lord was speaking of leaving our old life (like putting our hands to the plow and not turning back), that would make sense.

To whom much is given, much is required. The people warned to leave Sodom was not an example of leaving the old life. It was really God saving his own from coming and horrible judgement. That is a big one. Jesus warned his people to flee his judgemental and horrible wrath to come. Lot’s wife did not comply. Great acts of God requires great response.

Now I’m a scientist and I test theories. We likely both know people who started off walking with Jesus but later turned back. Some later repented. But none of them turned into anything close to the punishment of a pillar of salt. So spiritualizing the incident doesn’t match real life.

If God warns a man of danger, that man had best do as he was told.

 

[journeyman]

It’s a fairly horrible idea. What a monster that makes Him out to be.

In my opinion, it's the worst heresy ever taught in Christiandom.

When Jesus said the blood of those murdered from Abel to Zechariah would be required of that generation it was in 70AD.

I believe Jesus said that because the Prophets were testifying of him. Otherwise, he would be holding people accountable for the murders of people they never met, which would be unjust.

The bloody scenes described in Revelation occurred in the Roman attacks on the cities in Judea.

I believe the Revelation encompasses all of history. I see it pertaining to anyone who knows our Lord vs. anyone who doesn't.

 

[journeyman]

To whom much is given, much is required. The people warned to leave Sodom was not an example of leaving the old life. It was really God saving his own from coming and horrible judgement. That is a big one. Jesus warned his people to flee his judgemental and horrible wrath to come. Lot’s wife did not comply. Great acts of God requires great response.

Now I’m a scientist and I test theories. We likely both know people who started off walking with Jesus but later turned back. Some later repented. But none of them turned into anything close to the punishment of a pillar of salt. So spiritualizing the incident doesn’t match real life.

If God warns a man of danger, that man had best do as he was told.

Yes, but in 2Pet.2:1-9, Peter says God knows how to deliver his people from temptation. It could be if Lot had stayed in Sodom, he may have fallen away.
Peter also likens the destruction of Sodom to the final judgement, so his warning goes beyond 70AD.
Also, our King often taught that our safety was in him. He didn't seem overly concerned with the preservation of our lives in this flesh,
And I say unto you my friends, Be not afraid of them that kill the body, and after that have no more that they can do. Lk.12:4
Please don't get me wrong here. I'm not saying we shouldn't flee from people who want to harm us, but we shouldn't be afraid of them either.