How do we determine the TRUTH?

[Adullam]

My sincerest condolences on your loss Solo!


Maran atha

John

 

[Solo]

I stand corrected.

Not so obvious after all.

k

khalou,

Not many can admit to adhering to a false understanding. You are to be admired for coming to the conclusion that you have in your stand on being corrected. I believed as you did.

When God speaks to His sheep, they listen and hear Him speak.

God bless you,

Solo

 

[Solo]

My sincerest condolences on your loss Solo!


Maran atha

John

Thank you, John. He is waiting to see me, and when I see him again, he will be standing by a great white pillar with his arms crossed and a slight grin on his face saying, "What took you so long, dad?"

 

[Adullam]

My sincerest condolences on your loss Solo!


Maran atha

John

Thank you, John. He is waiting to see me, and when I see him again, he will be standing by a great white pillar with his arms crossed and a slight grin on his face saying, "What took you so long, dad?"

I'm reminded of the recurring line in the film "the Gladiator"...that goes..."but not yet"!

 

[brakelite2]

Solo, my condolences on your loss, but oh, what a wonderful promise from our beloved Saviour that the day will come when you and your son will be reunited in the earth made new. I must wonder however, if there was not an easier way for God to reveal to you what He meant by His 'first commandment with promise'?

 

[mutzrein]

The truth is, the truth stands alone. It is not subject to man’s perspective or intellectual analysis. Now when Jesus returned to the Father, he promised that he would ask the Father to send the Holy Spirit, the purpose of which amongst others was to lead us into ALL truth. In fact the Holy Spirit is called the Spirit OF Truth.

Scripture, from cover to cover, contrasts the physical and the spiritual. The flesh and the Spirit. It contrasts the nature of man and the nature of God. It contrasts the seen and the unseen. It contrasts that which is apprehended by the intellect and that which can only be revealed by the Spirit.

Now man in his ‘wisdom’ (which is really folly) has tried to understand the nature of God by means of the flesh or intellect. He is trying to understand or reach God by human means and embrace the things of the Spirit by means of the intellect.

So when it comes to the question ‘what is truth’, what does he do? He applies human reason to arguments over the meaning of words. He uses intellectual analysis of scripture to try to define it - but at the end of the day he is no closer to ‘knowing’ the truth (as it is IN Christ) nor will he ever attain it this way.

Jesus made a powerful statement to the religious of His day. “You diligently study the Scriptures because you think that by them you possess eternal life. These are the Scriptures that testify about me, yet you refuse to come to me to have life.â€Â

Now don’t we do exactly the same thing? Trying to gain an understanding of Christ by intellectual means. Now of truth, I’m not saying that we should not seek to gain understanding of the truth but how can we KNOW the truth unless we abide IN Christ who IS the Truth. Without being IN Christ, how can we comprehend what it means to worship the Father in Spirit and in Truth.
Unless we have received the Spirit of truth which the Father has sent to lead us to Christ we cannot know the truth. And unless Christ abides in us and we in Him the truth will be far from us.

Blessings

 

[Imagican]

How are we, (those that desire to KNOW the truth), determine whether something IS or ISN'T The Truth?

Do we simply follow what is taught in the churches? Do we simply listen and learn from others? Do we just pray about it? Reading? Study?

Just curious. For it appears that many have simply accepted what others have TAUGHT them instead of using an sort of 'guide line' to lead in their acceptance of 'truth'.

Some claim that to find one's truth within the words of The Bible is Solo Scriptura. That this is NOT enough. Some claim that it takes 'special people' to discern the truth contained within The Word. There is indication that, 'before the writting of the Bible', one could obtain truth simply by being obedient and following God through HIs Son.

What say ye? How do we determine THE truth. Not JUST the truth as WE SEE IT, but the ACTUAL truth?

Blessings,

MEC

1Jn 2:27 And as for you, the anointing which ye received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any one teach you; but as his anointing teacheth you; concerning all things, and is true, and is no lie, and even as it taught you, ye abide in him.

Holy Spirit.

Ah, THAT'S What I was LOOKING FOR. TRUTH teaching HOW to FIND the TRUTH.

Blessings,

MEC

 

[Imagican]

Interesting posts. I appreciate all that has been offered. Condolences Solo. Sorry to hear of this.

Blessings,

MEC

 

[Imagican]

So, what have we concluded? IS there a 'way' to discover THE truth as opposed to 'truth' that is of OUR OWN MAKING?

Mutz offered some interesting points. Along with others. I find it interesting to discuss such issues and see the varied responses.

Is there MORE than ONE truth?

I think NOT.

I believe that there is BUT ONE TRUTH, and IT obtainable ONLY through Christ as OFFERED us by GOD. And this THROUGH The Spirit.

We have 'words' offered up in scripture. But we have been TOLD that these ONLY have 'truth' as to those that it is INTENDED to understand. That the world would find these 'words' to be MERELY that; words. And words WITHOUT any understanding so far as 'the world' is concerned. That to IT, these would be but 'folly'.

ONLY THROUGH the Holy Spirit are these words ABLE to take on the understanding of THE TRUTH. And ONCE obtained, there is NO DOUBT as to their proofs.

But there IS a 'key' if you will. There is ONE DEFINATIVE nature that MUST be obtained in order for the "TRUTH" to 'shine through'. Any guesses as to WHAT must BE first in order for TRUTH to 'shine through'? Hint, it is what has been offered USWARD since the relationship FIRST began. Hint 2; without IT NOTHING else MATTERS.

Blessings,

MEC

 

[Solo]

• 1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world. 2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God: 3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world. 4 Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world. 5 They are of the world: therefore speak they of the world, and the world heareth them. 6 We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error. 1 John 4:1-6

• 5 Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates? 6 But I trust that ye shall know that we are not reprobates. 7 Now I pray to God that ye do no evil; not that we should appear approved, but that ye should do that which is honest, though we be as reprobates. 8 For we can do nothing against the truth, but for the truth. 9 For we are glad, when we are weak, and ye are strong: and this also we wish, even your perfection. F37 10 Therefore I write these things being absent, lest being present I should use sharpness, according to the power which the Lord hath given me to edification, and not to destruction. 2 Corinthians 13:5-10
  
  [list:kji2wjpp]F37: perfection: or, reformation, or, restoration

[/list:u:kji2wjpp]

 

[francisdesales]

Where is the pillar and foundation of the truth again?

WHERE Is the Temple of the Holy Spirit, who will lead us into all truth?

Where are Christians told to go when Christians disagree, and two or three cannot convince the one?

Doesn't it make sense that Christ would give us a ready source of Truth, a place to go to find Truth, rather than just "figure it out for yourselves"?

I am thankful that I know where to find the truth and do not have to rely on my own pitiful self to "figure it out".

Regards

 

[mutzrein]

Where is the pillar and foundation of the truth again?

WHERE Is the Temple of the Holy Spirit, who will lead us into all truth?

Where are Christians told to go when Christians disagree, and two or three cannot convince the one?

Doesn't it make sense that Christ would give us a ready source of Truth, a place to go to find Truth, rather than just "figure it out for yourselves"?

I am thankful that I know where to find the truth and do not have to rely on my own pitiful self to "figure it out".

Regards

Which reminds me of the prayer of the pharisee, "God I thank you that I am not like other men . . ."

 

[francisdesales]

Where is the pillar and foundation of the truth again?

WHERE Is the Temple of the Holy Spirit, who will lead us into all truth?

Where are Christians told to go when Christians disagree, and two or three cannot convince the one?

Doesn't it make sense that Christ would give us a ready source of Truth, a place to go to find Truth, rather than just "figure it out for yourselves"?

I am thankful that I know where to find the truth and do not have to rely on my own pitiful self to "figure it out".

Regards

Which reminds me of the prayer of the pharisee, "God I thank you that I am not like other men . . ."

That is quite ironic that I rely on someone else while you rely on yourself.

I apologize for answering the OP, while you find time to belittle someone else.

 

[Imagican]

Fran,

What I was getting at is THIS: Even with the judgement of 'fruit'. Even with the judgement of the 'church'. Even with the judgement of 'gifts'. We have been offered that there IS a 'KEY' to truth. And this is NOT necessarily found in 'fruit', 'the church', or even in 'gifts'. For we have been TOLD that NONE of these has ANY bearing on the truth EXCEPT when combinced with LOVE. So the KEY would BE LOVE.

Now, how do we determine LOVE offered? Well, to start with, LOVE is NOT 'taking'. Love IS giving. So we are able to determine the truth behind 'the church', the 'gifts', even the fruit by simply JUDGING whether there is TRUE LOVE present or NOT.

Christ was asked concerning the MOST important commandment. His answer was plainly offered; Love God above all else. He continued with: 'and the second, much like the first: Love your neighbor AS yourself. And then: and ALL the law and ALL the prophets HANG on 'these two'. Here is our reference point. Every act of communication between God and man was but for ONE purpose: To SHOW and TEACH Love.

Now, wouldn't it be SAFE to assume that we are ABLE to determine ANY truth through a discernment of 'love offered'? For, IF something is offered that has NO BEARING on LOVE, then it is obviously from 'some OTHER source'. Whether it be merely the philosophies of men, or the world itself, if there is NO LOVE present in ANY dispensation, there is NO TRUTH.

So, in essence, might we NOT be able to state OUTRIGHT that LOVE is the KEY to the discernment of TRUTH? That NO MATTER what one may SAY, if there is NO LOVE present, then what they say MUST be something OTHER THAN the truth.

I contend that MOST of the churches in existence TODAY exhibit ONLY 'self love'. That they are MORE concerned with the wellfare of THEMSELVES than those that they are SUPPOSE to SERVE. That they TEACH that we are to serve THEM rather than truth. And the truth that they offer is ONLY 'their OWN' with little bearing on THE Truth.

The Law didn't WORK the FIRST time and it seems that the churches are HELLBENT on a continuation of a theme that DIDN'T work the FIRST time. Hellbent on teaching basically a NEW law. For each of the denominations seems to have decided that THEIR 'doctrines', (or laws), are THE WAY that one MUST follow in order to find Salvation.

Yet this is NOT what we have been offered by Christ and His apostles. Christ stated that He did NOT come to judge this world but to SAVE IT. With this statement in mind, we can CLEARLY SEE that the ONLY WAY that we are ABLE to come to Christ is THROUGH The Spirit. And there is NO MEANS that we HAVE to GOVERN The Spirit. Either one heeds to the guidance of The Spirit or they DON'T. And NO AMOUNT of 'doctrine' or "LAW" is ABLE to GOVERN The Spirit. For the Spirit IS OF GOD and NOT of MAN. Instead of US being ABLE to govern IT, It is JUST THE OPPOSITE in fact. It IS The Spirit that IS ABLE to govern US and OUR behavior.

So you see, the churches have it BACKWARDS once again. What 'started' as a 'good thing' was altered into the DESIRES of men to govern EACH OTHER. Instead of a reliance on Spirit, men began, once again, to insist upon the GOVERNING of EACH OTHER. And all in the GUISE of following what God has offered. This "WE'' are the VOICE of God mentality that NEVER worked to begin with.

Christ LIVES in the hearts of those that LOVE Him and follow His commandments. And NO amount of 'man-made' institution is able to alter this in the LEAST so far as truth is concerned.

Blessings,

MEC

 

[emmauk007]

Are the teachings based on Gods word, or are they mans doctrines? It is important that we worship God in a way that he approves.Like counterfeit money, false religion has no real value. Even worse, such religion is actually harmful.Jesus said that the true religion would be evident in the lives of the people who practice it (Matthew 7:16, 17) In other words, those who practice the true religion would be recognized by their beliefs and their conduct.

 

[Rick W]

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index ... 735AAgpzs6

 

[francisdesales]

Fran,

What I was getting at is THIS: Even with the judgement of 'fruit'. Even with the judgement of the 'church'. Even with the judgement of 'gifts'. We have been offered that there IS a 'KEY' to truth. And this is NOT necessarily found in 'fruit', 'the church', or even in 'gifts'. For we have been TOLD that NONE of these has ANY bearing on the truth EXCEPT when combinced with LOVE. So the KEY would BE LOVE.

We are then thinking of two different "truths". There are doctrinal truths based upon the objective revelation given to mankind by Jesus Christ. There are also subjective truths based upon our own personal experiences. Christianity clearly is a religion of experiencing God. However, that experience must be matched with the revealed Gospel given to the Church. You are expressing the subjective truths, that love is key. It indeed is in our own personal walks. In addition, love is the basis for our objective truths. But they do not necessarily point us to the truth in describing who God is.

Now, how do we determine LOVE offered? Well, to start with, LOVE is NOT 'taking'. Love IS giving. So we are able to determine the truth behind 'the church', the 'gifts', even the fruit by simply JUDGING whether there is TRUE LOVE present or NOT.

I do not think it is wise to judge the love offered by anyone, barely even ourselves, since the majority of our actions include some aspects of alterior motives, even if we don't recognize them. Thus, Christ told us to NOT pull up the weeds among the wheat, telling us that this would be done by others at the end of time.

Christ was asked concerning the MOST important commandment. His answer was plainly offered; Love God above all else. He continued with: 'and the second, much like the first: Love your neighbor AS yourself. And then: and ALL the law and ALL the prophets HANG on 'these two'. Here is our reference point. Every act of communication between God and man was but for ONE purpose: To SHOW and TEACH Love.

Now, wouldn't it be SAFE to assume that we are ABLE to determine ANY truth through a discernment of 'love offered'? For, IF something is offered that has NO BEARING on LOVE, then it is obviously from 'some OTHER source'. Whether it be merely the philosophies of men, or the world itself, if there is NO LOVE present in ANY dispensation, there is NO TRUTH.

Again, I am not arguing that a person cannot discern this. In addition, just because something APPEARS to have "no bearing on love" doesn't mean that this is true. Even something like authority is "offered for the purpose of love". The issue is that you assume that whatever the Church offers is done with the intent of bending the will for evil purposes.

I contend that MOST of the churches in existence TODAY exhibit ONLY 'self love'.

I contend that most "church of one" in existence today exhibit self love. While I am not intimately familiar with all denominations within Christianity, I have experienced self giving amongst non-Catholic Christians. By nature, the "church of one" is subservient only to one's own opinions. Where is the love that moves beyond self? By submitting oneself to authority, whether it is a pastor or a pope, the virtue of humility and love is promoted.

That they are MORE concerned with the wellfare of THEMSELVES than those that they are SUPPOSE to SERVE.

The purpose of authority in the Church is meant for the service of others, otherwise, we wouldn't see the Scriptures suggest to follow authority. Do some in authority abuse their positions? Sure. But let's not toss all authoritative functions into the garbage can. There are numerous pastors and priests who are selfless for the sake of the community. One of the greatest signs of self-sacrifice is the notion of a celibate priesthood. Would YOU be willing to give that up for others?

The Law didn't WORK the FIRST time and it seems that the churches are HELLBENT on a continuation of a theme that DIDN'T work the FIRST time. Hellbent on teaching basically a NEW law. For each of the denominations seems to have decided that THEIR 'doctrines', (or laws), are THE WAY that one MUST follow in order to find Salvation.

And you differ how?

Yet this is NOT what we have been offered by Christ and His apostles. Christ stated that He did NOT come to judge this world but to SAVE IT. With this statement in mind, we can CLEARLY SEE that the ONLY WAY that we are ABLE to come to Christ is THROUGH The Spirit.

We do not deny that. The Church is the Temple of the Holy Spirit.

And there is NO MEANS that we HAVE to GOVERN The Spirit. Either one heeds to the guidance of The Spirit or they DON'T. And NO AMOUNT of 'doctrine' or "LAW" is ABLE to GOVERN The Spirit.

The purpose of doctrine is not to govern anyone, but an expression of what the Church, the community of believers, has been given to believe by the Holy Spirit. Thus, ignoring solemnly defined doctrine is ignoring what the Spirit has ALREADY SAID!

"It seems good to us and the Holy Spirit". And thus, the Apostles did something without ANY Biblical precedent - they ruled that circumcision, a command given by God, was no longer necessary.

So you see, the churches have it BACKWARDS once again. What 'started' as a 'good thing' was altered into the DESIRES of men to govern EACH OTHER. Instead of a reliance on Spirit, men began, once again, to insist upon the GOVERNING of EACH OTHER. And all in the GUISE of following what God has offered. This "WE'' are the VOICE of God mentality that NEVER worked to begin with.

The bible nowhere talks about coming to God as a church of one.

Christ LIVES in the hearts of those that LOVE Him and follow His commandments. And NO amount of 'man-made' institution is able to alter this in the LEAST so far as truth is concerned.

ALL of His commandments, not just the ones you pick and choose to follow...

What sort of trust do you have in God and His revelation when you decide which Laws of God to follow?

Regards

 

[Imagican]

Fran,

This is a 'quote' from YOU:

We are then thinking of two different "truths". There are doctrinal truths based upon the objective revelation given to mankind by Jesus Christ. There are also subjective truths based upon our own personal experiences. Christianity clearly is a religion of experiencing God. However, that experience must be matched with the revealed Gospel given to the Church. You are expressing the subjective truths, that love is key. It indeed is in our own personal walks. In addition, love is the basis for our objective truths. But they do not necessarily point us to the truth in describing who God is.

I can't believe that you would make such a statement as the LAST one posted.

Let's see: You have stated that love does NOT necessarily point us to the truth in describing WHO God is. Hmmmmm................ Let's see what John had to say concerning this issue:

1 John 4:8 (King James Version)

8He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.

Now, if this doesn't offer COMPLETE contradiction to what YOU have offered, I don't believe that there is such a thing.

All I have tried to do it point out that there IS 'absolute truth'. But how do we determine it? We HAVE the offering concerning the discernment of truth. But that is UTTERLY dependant upon FIRST coming to an UNDERSTANDING of LOVE. For NOTHING matters that we can BELIEVE or PRACTICE if LOVE is NOT the DETERMINANT FACTOR. The truth BEGINS with an understanding of LOVE.

As a matter of FACT, if we are able to LISTEN TO and UNDERSTAND what has been offered up in The Word, we find that the ENTIRETY of scripture, that concerning the LAW and that concerning the messages offered by God's prophets and Christ HIMSELF concerned NOTHING BUT LOVE. The problem that SOME have is coming TO this understanding.

Our creation was OUT OF LOVE. Our instruction was OUT OF LOVE. The example offered was OF LOVE. And Paul explained to us in His letter to the Corinthians that WITHOUT LOVE, NOTHING that we are ABLE to acheive has ANY MEANING 'without love'.

Now, if this does not plainly point to love BEING the KEY to understanding, then, Fran, please enlighten us as to WHAT The KEY to understanding TRUTH IS.

You have already stated your belief that it is UP TO THOSE IN AUTHORITY to TELL us what 'the truth is'. I COULDN'T disagree MORE, (from the perspective of WHO you SAY the 'authority IS'). I believe that there is BUT ONE authority in TRUTH; God. His Son came and GAVE us what His Father had GIVEN Him. The prophets have given us God's messages. But when we break it all down into 'that which matters', it is GOD who IS THE authority.

We were NOT told to follow authority for the sake of the TRUTH. What we were WARNED is that IF we go 'against' the authority, we will be answerable to 'the authority of those IN THIS WORLD'. We will face the wrath of 'the judge', (NOT the ULTIMATE judge, but those CHOSEN and IMPLEMENTED BY those OF THIS WORLD. Judges of the LAWS of 'this world'). In order to keep us FROM this 'judgment' we were warned to FOLLOW the authorities of this world.

NEVER were we told to TRUTH in the 'authorities of this world' for the SAKE OF TRUTH. Whether RELIGIOUS or SECULAR. That is simply NOT the case. For we are to follow FIRST that which IS Spiritual. And SECOND that which is PHYSICAL or secular. For it is THROUGH Spirit that we are ABLE to discern ANY truth. For truth is NOT of OUR creation, but GIVEN us through The Spirit. And those of this world would be some of the LAST to EVER receive any of the ACTUAL truth.

So, once again, the topic is TRUTH and HOW we are to obtain it. My premiss is that ONLY through LOVE are we able to COME to ANY truth that MATTERS. For that is the REASON for OUR EXISTENCE and the relationship that CAN exist between US and Our Father in Heaven.

Blessings,

MEC

 

[francisdesales]

Fran,

This is a 'quote' from YOU:

We are then thinking of two different "truths". There are doctrinal truths based upon the objective revelation given to mankind by Jesus Christ. There are also subjective truths based upon our own personal experiences. Christianity clearly is a religion of experiencing God. However, that experience must be matched with the revealed Gospel given to the Church. You are expressing the subjective truths, that love is key. It indeed is in our own personal walks. In addition, love is the basis for our objective truths. But they do not necessarily point us to the truth in describing who God is.

I can't believe that you would make such a statement as the LAST one posted.

Let's see: You have stated that love does NOT necessarily point us to the truth in describing WHO God is. Hmmmmm................ Let's see what John had to say concerning this issue:

1 John 4:8 (King James Version)

8He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.

Now, if this doesn't offer COMPLETE contradiction to what YOU have offered, I don't believe that there is such a thing.

As usual, you have nothing better to do than try to trip me up on something so you can pounce on me. What else is new, put francis under the microscope. More examples of your "love" at work...

Sigh.

Does the citation above say that one who loves knows EVERYTHING about God? No, it doesn't. It is talking about the experiential knowledge of God that every believer has, not about doctrinal issues. There are a number of passages that speak about young Christians, those who require milk, rather than meat. The more mysterious and profound truths are not necessarily made known to these "young" Christians, even though they are learning to experience God through Love. If everyone who loved knew God inside and out, there would be no need for a Bible or letters written to Christians or preachers that perfect the saints (cf. Eph 4:12-13; 2 Tim 3:15-16).

Thus, God Himself appointed ministers to preach the faith and lead people in their walk to God, to include defining mysterious articles of our faith.

All I have tried to do it point out that there IS 'absolute truth'. But how do we determine it? We HAVE the offering concerning the discernment of truth. But that is UTTERLY dependant upon FIRST coming to an UNDERSTANDING of LOVE. For NOTHING matters that we can BELIEVE or PRACTICE if LOVE is NOT the DETERMINANT FACTOR. The truth BEGINS with an understanding of LOVE.

My point remains. There is little "absolute" truth found in subjective experience, since subjective experiences, by nature, are not duplicated. Nor can they be analyzed objectively. How you experience God and how I experience God may have some points of conversion, but it is NEVER the same.

Thus, there is, at best, a minimal amount of 'absolute truth' found in experience. In addition, there is OTHER truth that IS objective that the universal community agrees to, for example, Jesus is Risen bodily. That is objective, no matter what some liberal Protestants try to tell us about the Apostles so-called "imaginary experiences of the Risen Lord", no doubt in the "name of love".

As a matter of FACT, if we are able to LISTEN TO and UNDERSTAND what has been offered up in The Word, we find that the ENTIRETY of scripture, that concerning the LAW and that concerning the messages offered by God's prophets and Christ HIMSELF concerned NOTHING BUT LOVE. The problem that SOME have is coming TO this understanding.

I understand this, which is why the Trinitarian understanding of God is so crucial to understanding the depths of this love offered to us.

Now, if this does not plainly point to love BEING the KEY to understanding, then, Fran, please enlighten us as to WHAT The KEY to understanding TRUTH IS.

You are preaching to the choir. Even dogmatic definitions are done out of Love, for the sake of the Body, since Christ's Spirit gave the Church all sorts of gifts, to include elders and leaders.

You have already stated your belief that it is UP TO THOSE IN AUTHORITY to TELL us what 'the truth is'. I COULDN'T disagree MORE, (from the perspective of WHO you SAY the 'authority IS'). I believe that there is BUT ONE authority in TRUTH; God.

The authority placed over us was installed by God Himself. Have you not read the Scriptures? The power to bind and loosen, given from above? We, as Christians, bind ourselves to God through the community's understanding of Who God is, to include those filled with the Spirit that came BEFORE us. You think God re-invents Himself every generation? Apparently, you do - and what's more, you think it comes only to you...

So, once again, the topic is TRUTH and HOW we are to obtain it. My premiss is that ONLY through LOVE are we able to COME to ANY truth that MATTERS. For that is the REASON for OUR EXISTENCE and the relationship that CAN exist between US and Our Father in Heaven.

Again, definitions of our faith are based upon what Love has already told us.

Regards

 

[Imagican]

Fran,

Re-Invent Himself? Not hardly. But what we have evidence of is that He RE INTRODUCED Himself OVER AND OVER throughout the relationship. For men had a 'tendency' to FORGET WHO God was OVER AND OVER. Choosing to follow 'gods' of their OWN creation until the TRUE God revealing Himself was able to 're-establish' the relationship.

I believe THAT is what we witness today. That it has been SO LONG since men have SOUGHT the 'true God' that it IS TIME that we 'start OVER' with TRUTH instead of 'created truth'.

NO, ALL have NEVER been led astray. But we can certainly see, time and again, where MOST were. A 'reminant' have ALWAYS existed. Even counting Noah in HIS time. Lot in his time. Abraham in his time. Moses in his time, etc, etc. And even the 'time of Christ' PLAINLY shows that men had VEERED from 'the truth' and Christ was sent to 'set things right again'. But ALWAYS a 'reminant' remained. Even IN THE END, a 'reminant' will REMAIN.

Fran, Let me offer this: 'Straight is the gate and narrow the way that leadeth unto life and FEW there be that find it. In these simple words are contained TRUTH. And the TOTAL implication of the truth within is that this statement doesn't even SAY that 'those that find it' WILL FOLLOW IT. The significance of this statement is that there WILL NOT BE MANY.

An 'oranization' for the SAKE of 'organizing' does NOT 'truth' make. Only in the sense that an 'organization' is ABLE to create it's OWN truth.

Blessings,

MEC