How do we 'recognize' The Spirit

[Imagican]

And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory. 1 Timothy 3:16

First line: great IS the mystery of godliness, this is WITHOUT doubt. But please note that the word 'godliness' IS spelled with a 'little' g. The rest I find quite contraversial considering that this is the ONLY place in the Bible something is stated 'as such'. And even this is very suspect.

For 'why' would God NEED be justified in the Spirit? Or, for what purpose would Timothy state; "seen of angels" IF we are refereing to God Himself? Would the ANGELS have been 'created' by God? And, furthermore, How could God be received BY HIMSELF?

As I have stated before, I believe that there have been pieces of the Word altered to fit the purpose of the CC. Not surprising considering the other underhanded way in which they handled the Word by keeping it from the people for HUNDREDS and HUNDREDS of years.

I am NOT going to say that this HAS been altered for neither you NOR I can prove it one way or the other. What I CAN state without fear of 'changing' God's Word is that these statements seem UTTERLY contradictory to the REST of the Bible. They seem in fact, to be nothing short of 'altered', for there seems to be nothing BUT mystery here.

Solo, it only takes the altering of just a very few crucial words in the Bible to misdirect the meaning behind much of it. Since those that have alternate views of 'trinity' DID NOT write and publish the book, it seems highly likely that those that did were PLENTY capable of altering words at will to fit their understanding. It IS suspect that the 'few' places that 'trinitarians' base their ENTIRE understanding of Christ AS God are NOT in the Gospels, but mysteriously placed in places OTHER than the statements of God or Christ Himself. I know, I know, you're going to contradict what I have stated by offering Johns statements concerning the Word. I have already stated what I believe this is in reference to. I do NOT believe that the word 'WORD' is simply Jesus Christ. So, 'trins' stating that John is 'showing' that Jesus IS God does not 'prove' anything other than a possible 'misunderstanding' of what is 'truly' being stated there.

But Solo, I KNOW the relationship that I have with the Father through His Son. I pray to God 'through' the name of Jesus Christ. I KNOW what Christ did to free us from our sins. I KNOW that Jesus Christ IS the Son of God. And, as I have stated on numerous occasions, (which, by the way, have been MOSTLY ignored), what if I were ALONE in an environment for NO ONE to teach me 'trinity'? Do you honestly believe that I would be LOST for the lack of this teaching of man? For 'trinity' IS a word that is NOT in the Bible. So, for me, you, or ANYONE else to even KNOW the word 'trinity', it is IMPERATIVE that 'some man' teach them.

So, you see, it is those that INSIST that one MUST accept 'trinity' that MUST be wrong. For the Bible PLAINLY states that Christ died for ALL men. For this to be true, 'trinity' MUST be false. For, as I have stated, 'trinity' requires that I 'ignore' what has been offered and accept that which HAS NOT.

I have created NOTHING. I have simply accepted the Word as I understand it and have learned that I need NO institutions to develope a personal relationship with the Father. And when I am belittled and told that this is NOT possible, I know that there is 'something' wrong with the theology or doctrine that 'these' follow. For I KNOW WHAT I KNOW. and for others to deny this means that they DO NOT KNOW what I DO. This, my friend, is SIMPLE logic.

This is NOT some kind of 'game' to me. I have read and read and read and read. I have done numerous 'personal' studiess of the Word on a number of different subjects and have been blessed with quite a bit of understanding in their regards. NO, I am NO Bible scholar in the traditional sense. I have had NO ONE teach me what I have learned. I have read commentaries and most, i have found, to be lacking in ANYTHING other than a 'generic' understanding, (mostly they offer the SAME understanding of the CC). This may mean little to those that accept the CC as 'following the truth', but this too I KNOW is NOT the 'truth'.

So, Solo, show me what you got. Explain to me again how I MUST be lying about what I have stated. Tell me that I am lost and DON'T know God or Christ. This does nothing but make me question whether 'you' know Either. I am NOT trying to be insulting OR sarcastic. I am serious; how can what I say be true if I MUST accept 'trinity' for them to true, and I don't? Now 'THIS' is TRULY a mystery to me.

 

[Solo]

And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory. 1 Timothy 3:16

First line: great IS the mystery of godliness, this is WITHOUT doubt. But please note that the word 'godliness' IS spelled with a 'little' g. The rest I find quite contraversial considering that this is the ONLY place in the Bible something is stated 'as such'. And even this is very suspect.

For 'why' would God NEED be justified in the Spirit? Or, for what purpose would Timothy state; "seen of angels" IF we are refereing to God Himself? Would the ANGELS have been 'created' by God? And, furthermore, How could God be received BY HIMSELF?

As I have stated before, I believe that there have been pieces of the Word altered to fit the purpose of the CC. Not surprising considering the other underhanded way in which they handled the Word by keeping it from the people for HUNDREDS and HUNDREDS of years.

I am NOT going to say that this HAS been altered for neither you NOR I can prove it one way or the other. What I CAN state without fear of 'changing' God's Word is that these statements seem UTTERLY contradictory to the REST of the Bible. They seem in fact, to be nothing short of 'altered', for there seems to be nothing BUT mystery here.

Solo, it only takes the altering of just a very few crucial words in the Bible to misdirect the meaning behind much of it. Since those that have alternate views of 'trinity' DID NOT write and publish the book, it seems highly likely that those that did were PLENTY capable of altering words at will to fit their understanding. It IS suspect that the 'few' places that 'trinitarians' base their ENTIRE understanding of Christ AS God are NOT in the Gospels, but mysteriously placed in places OTHER than the statements of God or Christ Himself. I know, I know, you're going to contradict what I have stated by offering Johns statements concerning the Word. I have already stated what I believe this is in reference to. I do NOT believe that the word 'WORD' is simply Jesus Christ. So, 'trins' stating that John is 'showing' that Jesus IS God does not 'prove' anything other than a possible 'misunderstanding' of what is 'truly' being stated there.

But Solo, I KNOW the relationship that I have with the Father through His Son. I pray to God 'through' the name of Jesus Christ. I KNOW what Christ did to free us from our sins. I KNOW that Jesus Christ IS the Son of God. And, as I have stated on numerous occasions, (which, by the way, have been MOSTLY ignored), what if I were ALONE in an environment for NO ONE to teach me 'trinity'? Do you honestly believe that I would be LOST for the lack of this teaching of man? For 'trinity' IS a word that is NOT in the Bible. So, for me, you, or ANYONE else to even KNOW the word 'trinity', it is IMPERATIVE that 'some man' teach them.

So, you see, it is those that INSIST that one MUST accept 'trinity' that MUST be wrong. For the Bible PLAINLY states that Christ died for ALL men. For this to be true, 'trinity' MUST be false. For, as I have stated, 'trinity' requires that I 'ignore' what has been offered and accept that which HAS NOT.

I have created NOTHING. I have simply accepted the Word as I understand it and have learned that I need NO institutions to develope a personal relationship with the Father. And when I am belittled and told that this is NOT possible, I know that there is 'something' wrong with the theology or doctrine that 'these' follow. For I KNOW WHAT I KNOW. and for others to deny this means that they DO NOT KNOW what I DO. This, my friend, is SIMPLE logic.

This is NOT some kind of 'game' to me. I have read and read and read and read. I have done numerous 'personal' studiess of the Word on a number of different subjects and have been blessed with quite a bit of understanding in their regards. NO, I am NO Bible scholar in the traditional sense. I have had NO ONE teach me what I have learned. I have read commentaries and most, i have found, to be lacking in ANYTHING other than a 'generic' understanding, (mostly they offer the SAME understanding of the CC). This may mean little to those that accept the CC as 'following the truth', but this too I KNOW is NOT the 'truth'.

So, Solo, show me what you got. Explain to me again how I MUST be lying about what I have stated. Tell me that I am lost and DON'T know God or Christ. This does nothing but make me question whether 'you' know Either. I am NOT trying to be insulting OR sarcastic. I am serious; how can what I say be true if I MUST accept 'trinity' for them to true, and I don't? Now 'THIS' is TRULY a mystery to me.

Pray about the truth after you have confessed Jesus as your Lord and Saviour, and being the one who died in your stead for your sins, and being resurrected from the dead alive forever more. After you pray for this, then ask God to show you the truth of Jesus being God. After that study the scriptures through the guidence of the Spirit of God showing you the truth.

1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world. 2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God: 3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world. 1 John 4:1-3

16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory. 1 Timothy 3:16

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[Imagican]

Oh, and might I add, that there are many instances where scholars have stated that the original language may have been just as well translated HE instead of God, in Timothy 3:16. So THIS is what I referred to as the possibility that the CC may have substituted God for HIM. This would CERTAINLY make MUCH more 'sense' in undertanding what has been stated in these verses. For IF we insert the word HE in the place of God, we find that this becomes 'understandable'. I did notice that you didn't debate the issues that i raised concerning these statements. You simply asked ME to explain them and didn't offer an explanation yourself.

 

[Imagican]

Pray about the truth after you have confessed Jesus as your Lord and Saviour, and being the one who died in your stead for your sins, and being resurrected from the dead alive forever more. After you pray for this, then ask God to show you the truth of Jesus being God. After that study the scriptures through the guidence of the Spirit of God showing you the truth.

You state this as if I am some 'newbie' that has NO UNDERSTANDING of scripture OR God Himself. Can't let you get away with it. I KNOW that Jesus Christ IS MY SAVIOR. I simply don't accept Him as 'being' God. A 'part' of God as EVERY Son is a 'part' of his father, but NOT the father himself. Once again, you show 'me' that it is 'your' understanding that is flawed. For I still know what I know and you deny this.

1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world. 2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God: 3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world. 1 John 4:1-3

And I would offer that 'you' heed the scriptures above. For it is NOT me who tries to convince others to follow MY doctrine. I simply offer the 'truth' as I know it to be. I have followed NOTHING 'created' by me or man. I follow not ONLY the Word, but the Spirit that HAS guided me to my understanding.

You, on the other hand, won't even admit that the doctrine that 'you' follow WAS created by 'men' rather than the Word or God. 'Trinity' is a concept that pre-dates Christianity by thousands of years. It goes back to Babylon and Egypt. Now, WHY would God ONLY reveal this to those that 'already' accepted a 'triune' god, yet HIDE this from HIS CHOSEN PEOPLE. You see, there is MORE to an understanding of the 'truth' other than the words in the Bible. It is the Word that means much more than the words in a book. The Word IS the Word of God, NOT THE WORDS OF MEN. And the word 'trinity' is NOT in the Word.

16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory. 1 Timothy 3:16

 

[Solo]

Pray about the truth after you have confessed Jesus as your Lord and Saviour, and being the one who died in your stead for your sins, and being resurrected from the dead alive forever more. After you pray for this, then ask God to show you the truth of Jesus being God. After that study the scriptures through the guidence of the Spirit of God showing you the truth.

You state this as if I am some 'newbie' that has NO UNDERSTANDING of scripture OR God Himself. Can't let you get away with it. I KNOW that Jesus Christ IS MY SAVIOR. I simply don't accept Him as 'being' God. A 'part' of God as EVERY Son is a 'part' of his father, but NOT the father himself. Once again, you show 'me' that it is 'your' understanding that is flawed. For I still know what I know and you deny this.

1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world. 2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God: 3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world. 1 John 4:1-3

And I would offer that 'you' heed the scriptures above. For it is NOT me who tries to convince others to follow MY doctrine. I simply offer the 'truth' as I know it to be. I have followed NOTHING 'created' by me or man. I follow not ONLY the Word, but the Spirit that HAS guided me to my understanding.

You, on the other hand, won't even admit that the doctrine that 'you' follow WAS created by 'men' rather than the Word or God. 'Trinity' is a concept that pre-dates Christianity by thousands of years. It goes back to Babylon and Egypt. Now, WHY would God ONLY reveal this to those that 'already' accepted a 'triune' god, yet HIDE this from HIS CHOSEN PEOPLE. You see, there is MORE to an understanding of the 'truth' other than the words in the Bible. It is the Word that means much more than the words in a book. The Word IS the Word of God, NOT THE WORDS OF MEN. And the word 'trinity' is NOT in the Word.

16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory. 1 Timothy 3:16

11 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, 12 Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world; 13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ; 14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works. 15 These things speak, and exhort, and rebuke with all authority. Let no man despise thee. Titus 2:11-15

8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments F8 of the world, and not after Christ. 9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.
Colossians 2:8-9

12 And I thank Christ Jesus our Lord, who hath enabled me, for that he counted me faithful, putting me into the ministry; 13 Who was before a blasphemer, and a persecutor, and injurious: but I obtained mercy, because I did it ignorantly in unbelief. 14 And the grace of our Lord was exceeding abundant with faith and love which is in Christ Jesus. 15 This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief. 16 Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting. 17 Now unto the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only wise God, be honour and glory for ever and ever. Amen 1 Timothy 1:12-17

3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; 4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; 6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time. 1 Timothy 2:3-6

13 I give thee charge in the sight of God, who quickeneth all things, and before Christ Jesus, who before Pontius Pilate witnessed a good confession; F13 14 That thou keep this commandment without spot, unrebukeable, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ: 15 Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords; 16 Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen. 1 Timothy 6:13-16

1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. 2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. 3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God. 4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away. 5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful. 6 And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely. 7 He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son. 8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death. Revelation 21:1-8

20 And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life. 1 John 5:20

23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us. Matthew 1:23

27 Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing. 28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God. 29 Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed. John 20:27-29

25 To the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen. Jude 1:25

1 Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ:
2 Peter 1:1

8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom. 9 Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows. 10 And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands: 11 They shall perish; but thou remainest; and they all shall wax old as doth a garment; 12 And as a vesture shalt thou fold them up, and they shall be changed: but thou art the same, and thy years shall not fail. 13 But to which of the angels said he at any time, Sit on my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool? 14 Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation? Hebrews 1:8-14

24 Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself; 25 That frustrateth the tokens of the liars, and maketh diviners mad; that turneth wise men backward, and maketh their knowledge foolish; Isaiah 44:24-25

 

[Imagican]

And all you offer here is AGAIN an argument for 'trinity'. This thread was about The Spirit and 'HOW' we are able to recognize it. While I am 'well aware' of your devotion to 'trinity', this belief does NOT 'hold true' in 'proof' of The Spirit to those that DO NOT believe in a 'trinity'.

The Word NEVER states in ONE PLACE that one MUST accept a 'trinity'. There ARE MANY statements pertaining to Salvation and 'trinity' is NOT mentioned in a single one. Once again: the apostles, God NOR Christ Himself EVER taught a 'trinity'.

 

[lovely]

Imagican,

I am not trying to exasperate you by copying this post here, but I think the reason it has become about the Holy Trinity again, is because God does say that Jesus is God, and Jesus says that He is God, and the Holy Spirit, is the Spirit, that has taught it to our hearts. This is the Spirit that we do recognize. The Lord bless you.

Lovely wrote:

I thought Hebrews 1:1-14 applied when speaking about Christ coming in the flesh, and what that truly means, and who He truly is. John 1:14 also testifies of Christ coming in the flesh.

14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

and then we have these verses....

John 1:1-5 1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

2 The same was in the beginning with God.


3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.

5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.


The spirit of the antichrist will attack His deity, and try to make Him a liar, as well as God. They accept neither one truly, but only in word. John exposes this in 1 John, and gives us many characteristics of this spirit.

God says that Jesus is God, and Jesus says that of Himself, and The Holy Spirit conveys it to the believer very clearly in his spirit. The whole point is that God came in the flesh. It is not that the created flesh came in the flesh. We must believe this if we are in Him, if we do not is the spirit of the antichrist.

1 John 4:2-3 2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:

3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

Jesus Told Nicodemus that only He had been in Heaven John 3:13
The Jews were very angry with Jesus for making himself equal with God, and sought to kill him all the more for it. John 5:17-18 John tells us He is the Word, and the first chapter is very clear about who Christ is. The Spirit of the antichrist denies this, because those who listen to it do not hear God. We are not to be deceived in this manner because the truth is in us.

Hebrews 1:1-14
1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,

2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high:

4 Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.

5 For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?

6 And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.

7 And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire.

8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.

9 Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.

10 And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands:

11 They shall perish; but thou remainest; and they all shall wax old as doth a garment;

12 And as a vesture shalt thou fold them up, and they shall be changed: but thou art the same, and thy years shall not fail.

13 But to which of the angels said he at any time, Sit on my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool?

14 Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation?

This is clear, and John tells us that we do not need teaching on this matter. We have the Truth, and no lie is in the Truth.

1 John 2:20-27 20 But ye have an unction from the Holy One, and ye know all things.

21 I have not written unto you because ye know not the truth, but because ye know it, and that no lie is of the truth.

22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.

23 Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also.

24 Let that therefore abide in you, which ye have heard from the beginning. If that which ye have heard from the beginning shall remain in you, ye also shall continue in the Son, and in the Father.

25 And this is the promise that he hath promised us, even eternal life.

26 These things have I written unto you concerning them that seduce you.

27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

The Lord bless you all.

 

[McQuacks]

In response to the original question, of how do we discern God's Spirit, the Holy Spirit, from Satan, I would look at this verse:

But when the Pharisees heard this, they said, "It is only by Beelzebub, the prince of demons, that this fellow drives out demons."

Jesus knew their thoughts and said to them, "Every kingdom divided against itself will be ruined, and every city or household divided against itself will not stand. If Satan drives out Satan, he is divided against himself. How then can his kingdom stand? And if I drive out demons by Beelzebub, by whom do your people drive them out? So then, they will be your judges. But if I drive out demons by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God has come upon you.
"Or again, how can anyone enter a strong man's house and carry off his possessions unless he first ties up the strong man? Then he can rob his house."

Matthew 12:24-29.

How could Satan drive out Satan?
-McQ 8-)

 

[Solo]

And all you offer here is AGAIN an argument for 'trinity'. This thread was about The Spirit and 'HOW' we are able to recognize it. While I am 'well aware' of your devotion to 'trinity', this belief does NOT 'hold true' in 'proof' of The Spirit to those that DO NOT believe in a 'trinity'.

The Word NEVER states in ONE PLACE that one MUST accept a 'trinity'. There ARE MANY statements pertaining to Salvation and 'trinity' is NOT mentioned in a single one. Once again: the apostles, God NOR Christ Himself EVER taught a 'trinity'.

You never offer scripture as backing to your sensational generalization to a belief system that is false, nor do you intelligently discuss the scriptures that show proof to the trinity of the godhead. Same act, different day.

 

[Oscar3]

In response to the original question, of how do we discern God's Spirit, the Holy Spirit, from Satan, I would look at this verse:

But when the Pharisees heard this, they said, "It is only by Beelzebub, the prince of demons, that this fellow drives out demons."

Jesus knew their thoughts and said to them, "Every kingdom divided against itself will be ruined, and every city or household divided against itself will not stand. If Satan drives out Satan, he is divided against himself. How then can his kingdom stand? And if I drive out demons by Beelzebub, by whom do your people drive them out? So then, they will be your judges. But if I drive out demons by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God has come upon you.
"Or again, how can anyone enter a strong man's house and carry off his possessions unless he first ties up the strong man? Then he can rob his house."

Matthew 12:24-29.

How could Satan drive out Satan?
-McQ 8-)

He can't

 

[jgredline]

In response to the original question, of how do we discern God's Spirit, the Holy Spirit, from Satan, I would look at this verse:

But when the Pharisees heard this, they said, "It is only by Beelzebub, the prince of demons, that this fellow drives out demons."

Jesus knew their thoughts and said to them, "Every kingdom divided against itself will be ruined, and every city or household divided against itself will not stand. If Satan drives out Satan, he is divided against himself. How then can his kingdom stand? And if I drive out demons by Beelzebub, by whom do your people drive them out? So then, they will be your judges. But if I drive out demons by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God has come upon you.
"Or again, how can anyone enter a strong man's house and carry off his possessions unless he first ties up the strong man? Then he can rob his house."

Matthew 12:24-29.

How could Satan drive out Satan?
-McQ 8-)

My Quack
I did a really indepth study a few years ago for a class I taught.
This is basically what I found
12:22–24 When Jesus healed a blind and mute demoniac, the common people began to think seriously that He might be the Son of David, the Messiah of Israel. This enraged the Pharisees. Unable to tolerate any suggestion of sympathy with Jesus, they exploded with the charge that the miracle had been performed by the power of Beelzebub, the ruler of the demons. This ominous indictment was the first open accusation that the Lord Jesus was demon- empowered.
12:25, 26 When He had read their thoughts, Jesus proceeded to expose their folly. He pointed out that no kingdom, city, or house divided against itself can continue successfully. If He was casting out Satan’s demons by the power of Satan, then Satan was working against himself. This would be absurd.
12:27 Our Lord had a second devastating answer for the Pharisees. Some of their Jewish associates, known as exorcists, claimed to have the power to cast out demons. Jesus neither admitted nor denied their claim, but used it to point out that if He cast out demons by Beelzebub, then the Pharisees’ sons (i.e. these exorcists) did also. The Pharisees would never admit this, but could not escape the logic of the argument. Their own associates would condemn them for implying that they exorcised as agents of Satan.

Scofield said:
The Pharisees were quick enough to resent any implication of Satanic power as far as they and their sons were concerned, but on the ground they were taking, i.e., that Christ cast out demons by Beelzebub, their own sons would judge them inconsistent; for if the power to cast out demons is Satanic, then whoever exercises that power is in league with the source of that power.

They were not being logical in attributing similar effects to different causes.
12:28 The truth, of course, was that Jesus cast out demons by the Spirit of God. His entire life as a Man on earth was lived by the power of the Holy Spirit. He was the Spirit-filled Messiah whom Isaiah had foretold (Isa. 11:2; 42:1; 61:1–3). Therefore He said to the Pharisees, “ ... if I cast out demons by the Spirit of God, surely the kingdom of God has come upon you.†This announcement must have been a crushing blow. They prided themselves on their theological knowledge, yet the kingdom of God had come upon them because the King was among them and they hadn’t even realized that He was there!
12:29 Far from being in league with Satan, the Lord Jesus was Satan’s Conqueror. This He illustrates by the story of the strong man. The strong man is Satan. His house is the sphere in which he holds sway. His goods are his demons. Jesus is the One who binds the strong man, enters his house, and plunders his goods. Actually the binding of Satan takes place in stages. It began during Jesus’ public ministry. It was decisively guaranteed by the death and resurrection of Christ. It will be true to a more marked degree during the King’s thousand-year reign (Rev. 20:2). Finally, it will be eternally true when he is cast into the lake of fire (Rev. 20:10). At the present time the devil does not seem to be bound; he still exercises considerable power. But his doom is determined and his time is short.

I am of the opinion that the best commentaries for a real good study if you can find them are by G Cambell Morgan.
I have many and studied many, but his are great.

 

[Imagican]

Solo,

This is simply NOT true. I have offered MUCH scripture that has been mostly ignored. And I don't know 'what' intelligence' has to do with it. For if man's intelligence is the 'guideline' that 'you' use to discern the truth, then that is NOTHING other than the 'truth' of the World.

I have quoted scripture concerning 'no trinity' and pointed out that there IS NO scripture concerning this word to 'start with'. You, and others, insist that 'just because the word doesn't exist in The Word that it doesn't mean that it doesn't exist. I propose that the god of 'trinity' is obviously one that is too weak to have his intentions, purposes and will placed in writing except through a group of people that had 'previously' possessed a 'triune' god. These who brought about the 'death' of our Savior, Jesus Christ, and persecuted those that followed Him for hundreds and hundreds of years.

There are few outside the CC that would agree that their teachings and practices are based on the 'truth'. From what I have studied and learned, 'trinity' is but another of these teachings and practices. A doctrine that must simply be 'accepted' regardless of ALL the information contrary to this doctrine. Some of the GREATEST Bible scholars that have EVER LIVED have made every effort possible to try and show people how deviant this doctrine truly is. A doctrine that the people who created it tortured and murdered those that opposed it. Now, IS THIS THE SPIRIT that we are to follow? One of hate? For if one goes back in history to study this doctrine, that is what they will find. A doctrine created by men and enforced to the point of death to those that were willing to stand up and deny it.

I know that the churches teach this doctrine WHOLEHEARTEDLY. It comes as NO surprise though when one studies the history of the Protestant faith. When many 'split' from the CC, this doctrine of 'trinity' had been SO ingrained in their understanding that this they were UNABLE to discern.

When, for hundreds and hundreds of years, people are threatened and persecuted over a doctrine, the survivors WILL eventually accept and embrace it. If generation after generation of children are raised to 'believe' something, eventually, after enough generations, REGARDLESS of the truth or fallacy of their teachings, they WILL, eventually, accept them AS FACT. All one need do to understand what I am stating here is look at Israel. God's CHOSEN people have 'turned their collective backs' on the 'truth' over and over and over again. Even durring the time of Christ He states Himself that the religious leaders had incorporated 'their OWN' religion in the place of what Moses had brought them. Nothing short of collective 'brain-washing' on the part of the religious leaders, (not that the people 'needed' much. For, just as the people of today, many like to 'talk a good game' but their hearts are far, far from God or Christ).

In essence, the CC brainwashed, (through threats, intimidation, and outright murder), the congregation into accepting this doctrine of 'trinity' and they had the power of the STRONGEST GOVERNMENT on the planet to help them ENFORCE their wishes.

I have 'made up' NOTHING. I have simply attempted to offer the 'truth' of this doctrine. I know that for those that truly believe in it, what I have offered seems really 'far out'. But, I can assure each and every one of you, if you will expend the energy and put forth the effort, you too can very easily find the truth behind the creation of this doctrine.

Aren't we all here seeking the 'truth'? Regardless of the effects it may have on our lives; aren't we here seeking the MEANING behind the Word of God? I have read the Bible OVER AND OVER And OVER again and STILL find NO 'trinity'. Yes, there are certainly things about the Godhead that we DON'T understand. I have NEVER doubted this for a second. But, we DO have the history of this 'trinity' and it is NOT the answer that 'you' would have me believe.

That Christ was/IS a PART of God, there is NO doubt. But that Christ IS God, that I have yet to find. Yes there are statements that 'indicate' that this MAY be possible. BUT, the overwhelming MAJORITY of scripture points to something TOTALLY different than what is offered in 'trinity'. Take this into consideration with the FACT that the CC were the ones to offer us our modern translations and they MOST LIKELY altered the translations to 'fit' their doctrines, it is easy to see the 'truth' behind 'trinity', and perhaps the 'few' statements in the Word that even indicate a 'triune' nature.

NO, I am NOT saying the the Bible is NOT the Word of God. What I will say though, is that the Bible is ONLY the beginning of the knowledge of God. And that there is MUCH more knowledge attainable and much more pure TRUTH to be found than what is offered in the Bible. God is able to offer understanding to WHO He chooses and HOW He chooses to do it. There are MANY Bible scholars out there that have ABSOLUTELY NO understanding of God whatsoever. For there is more to understanding the Word than the simple words that are in the Bible. And when I say Word here, I do NOT mean Jesus Christ. I am talking about the WISDOM of God and what He would have us know. THAT Word.

I have debated Baptism, demons, Satan, 'trinity', the RCC and the CC, LOVE, the Son of God, music and numerous other subjects since my coming here and quite often I find that there is a MAJOR lack of Spiritual understanding concerning these issues. I KNOW what has been revealed to me and I simply wonder WHY most of what I have offered has NOT been revealed to MANY others. If a 'low life' worm such as myself is able to come to such understanding, why is it that those that are AVID Bible readers and church goers UNABLE to understand the same things, OR EVEN BETTER?

I have the answer to this question but as we have already been told: The world does NOT WANT TO HEAR IT. They would much rather be comfortable than understand the 'truth'. And the churches have bowed their knees to THESE wishes rather than the will of God. Nothing new, for Christ warned us repeatedly that this is EXACTLY what had happened to HIS people at the time He visited this earth. The religious leaders had 'created' their OWN religion in the place of following God and His will. They learned to 'talk' a 'good game' but The Spirit was FAR from them. When those like unto myself came to the people with NOTHING but proper intentions, the people ridiculed them, spat on them, stoned them or basically just ignored them. Nothing new.

I take NO offense to those that treat me in such a way. I MEAN this. Not a one of you knows me and I don't know you. What I DO know is that God Loves each and every one of us REGARDLESS of our shortcomings. Yes, we are certainly able to abide in the World and therefore be 'separated' from our Father. That doesn't change the FACT that He STILL LOVES US. Loved us enough that while we were yet HIS ENEMIES, He sent His ONLY BEGOTTEN, to DIE FOR OUR SINS. This I KNOW without a doubt in my mind or heart. Yet, I would still be told that without an acceptance of 'trinity', (a man-made' doctrine), I can NOT be saved. That, my friends, is an ULTIMATE example of placing the WORLD before God Himself.

I am JUDGING no one in regards to their Salvation. I am UNABLE to do so. I am NOT Christ nor am I MY OWN GOD. The judging is up to God and Christ. But I AM capable of discerning truth. Please don't 'show your true colors' by 'pretending' that you can do what NO man can do. For by doing this, all you are really doing is showing that you bow to NO God other than yourselves. For anyone that 'pretends' that they have been given the 'power' to JUDGE others, is nothing but someone not only attempting to fool others, but someone that has somehow found a way to 'fool themselves' as well. This is what the CC has been doing for a couple of thousand years, but they are simply 'showing' the spirit that they follow by doing such, also.

 

[Solo]

Solo,

This is simply NOT true. I have offered MUCH scripture that has been mostly ignored. And I don't know 'what' intelligence' has to do with it. For if man's intelligence is the 'guideline' that 'you' use to discern the truth, then that is NOTHING other than the 'truth' of the World.

I have quoted scripture concerning 'no trinity' and pointed out that there IS NO scripture concerning this word to 'start with'. You, and others, insist that 'just because the word doesn't exist in The Word that it doesn't mean that it doesn't exist. I propose that the god of 'trinity' is obviously one that is too weak to have his intentions, purposes and will placed in writing except through a group of people that had 'previously' possessed a 'triune' god. These who brought about the 'death' of our Savior, Jesus Christ, and persecuted those that followed Him for hundreds and hundreds of years.

There are few outside the CC that would agree that their teachings and practices are based on the 'truth'. From what I have studied and learned, 'trinity' is but another of these teachings and practices. A doctrine that must simply be 'accepted' regardless of ALL the information contrary to this doctrine. Some of the GREATEST Bible scholars that have EVER LIVED have made every effort possible to try and show people how deviant this doctrine truly is. A doctrine that the people who created it tortured and murdered those that opposed it. Now, IS THIS THE SPIRIT that we are to follow? One of hate? For if one goes back in history to study this doctrine, that is what they will find. A doctrine created by men and enforced to the point of death to those that were willing to stand up and deny it.

I know that the churches teach this doctrine WHOLEHEARTEDLY. It comes as NO surprise though when one studies the history of the Protestant faith. When many 'split' from the CC, this doctrine of 'trinity' had been SO ingrained in their understanding that this they were UNABLE to discern.

When, for hundreds and hundreds of years, people are threatened and persecuted over a doctrine, the survivors WILL eventually accept and embrace it. If generation after generation of children are raised to 'believe' something, eventually, after enough generations, REGARDLESS of the truth or fallacy of their teachings, they WILL, eventually, accept them AS FACT. All one need do to understand what I am stating here is look at Israel. God's CHOSEN people have 'turned their collective backs' on the 'truth' over and over and over again. Even durring the time of Christ He states Himself that the religious leaders had incorporated 'their OWN' religion in the place of what Moses had brought them. Nothing short of collective 'brain-washing' on the part of the religious leaders, (not that the people 'needed' much. For, just as the people of today, many like to 'talk a good game' but their hearts are far, far from God or Christ).

In essence, the CC brainwashed, (through threats, intimidation, and outright murder), the congregation into accepting this doctrine of 'trinity' and they had the power of the STRONGEST GOVERNMENT on the planet to help them ENFORCE their wishes.

I have 'made up' NOTHING. I have simply attempted to offer the 'truth' of this doctrine. I know that for those that truly believe in it, what I have offered seems really 'far out'. But, I can assure each and every one of you, if you will expend the energy and put forth the effort, you too can very easily find the truth behind the creation of this doctrine.

Aren't we all here seeking the 'truth'? Regardless of the effects it may have on our lives; aren't we here seeking the MEANING behind the Word of God? I have read the Bible OVER AND OVER And OVER again and STILL find NO 'trinity'. Yes, there are certainly things about the Godhead that we DON'T understand. I have NEVER doubted this for a second. But, we DO have the history of this 'trinity' and it is NOT the answer that 'you' would have me believe.

That Christ was/IS a PART of God, there is NO doubt. But that Christ IS God, that I have yet to find. Yes there are statements that 'indicate' that this MAY be possible. BUT, the overwhelming MAJORITY of scripture points to something TOTALLY different than what is offered in 'trinity'. Take this into consideration with the FACT that the CC were the ones to offer us our modern translations and they MOST LIKELY altered the translations to 'fit' their doctrines, it is easy to see the 'truth' behind 'trinity', and perhaps the 'few' statements in the Word that even indicate a 'triune' nature.

NO, I am NOT saying the the Bible is NOT the Word of God. What I will say though, is that the Bible is ONLY the beginning of the knowledge of God. And that there is MUCH more knowledge attainable and much more pure TRUTH to be found than what is offered in the Bible. God is able to offer understanding to WHO He chooses and HOW He chooses to do it. There are MANY Bible scholars out there that have ABSOLUTELY NO understanding of God whatsoever. For there is more to understanding the Word than the simple words that are in the Bible. And when I say Word here, I do NOT mean Jesus Christ. I am talking about the WISDOM of God and what He would have us know. THAT Word.

I have debated Baptism, demons, Satan, 'trinity', the RCC and the CC, LOVE, the Son of God, music and numerous other subjects since my coming here and quite often I find that there is a MAJOR lack of Spiritual understanding concerning these issues. I KNOW what has been revealed to me and I simply wonder WHY most of what I have offered has NOT been revealed to MANY others. If a 'low life' worm such as myself is able to come to such understanding, why is it that those that are AVID Bible readers and church goers UNABLE to understand the same things, OR EVEN BETTER?

I have the answer to this question but as we have already been told: The world does NOT WANT TO HEAR IT. They would much rather be comfortable than understand the 'truth'. And the churches have bowed their knees to THESE wishes rather than the will of God. Nothing new, for Christ warned us repeatedly that this is EXACTLY what had happened to HIS people at the time He visited this earth. The religious leaders had 'created' their OWN religion in the place of following God and His will. They learned to 'talk' a 'good game' but The Spirit was FAR from them. When those like unto myself came to the people with NOTHING but proper intentions, the people ridiculed them, spat on them, stoned them or basically just ignored them. Nothing new.

I take NO offense to those that treat me in such a way. I MEAN this. Not a one of you knows me and I don't know you. What I DO know is that God Loves each and every one of us REGARDLESS of our shortcomings. Yes, we are certainly able to abide in the World and therefore be 'separated' from our Father. That doesn't change the FACT that He STILL LOVES US. Loved us enough that while we were yet HIS ENEMIES, He sent His ONLY BEGOTTEN, to DIE FOR OUR SINS. This I KNOW without a doubt in my mind or heart. Yet, I would still be told that without an acceptance of 'trinity', (a man-made' doctrine), I can NOT be saved. That, my friends, is an ULTIMATE example of placing the WORLD before God Himself.

I am JUDGING no one in regards to their Salvation. I am UNABLE to do so. I am NOT Christ nor am I MY OWN GOD. The judging is up to God and Christ. But I AM capable of discerning truth. Please don't 'show your true colors' by 'pretending' that you can do what NO man can do. For by doing this, all you are really doing is showing that you bow to NO God other than yourselves. For anyone that 'pretends' that they have been given the 'power' to JUDGE others, is nothing but someone not only attempting to fool others, but someone that has somehow found a way to 'fool themselves' as well. This is what the CC has been doing for a couple of thousand years, but they are simply 'showing' the spirit that they follow by doing such, also.

If you are not saved and it is obvious from my perspective because you do not KNOW Jesus, then in love, I am instructing you with the Word of God as it is for reproof, correction, and instruction in righteousness. This is apart from your conception of other means of information from God.

Who is Jehovah? Who is Elohim? Who is Theos? Who is Adonai? What is the name of the Word, Jesus in the Old Testament? Where is Jesus mentioned in the Old Testament?

 

[R7-12]

Who is Jehovah? Who is Elohim? Who is Theos? Who is Adonai? What is the name of the Word, Jesus in the Old Testament? Where is Jesus mentioned in the Old Testament?

Solo,

You know not even that which you ask.

Who hath ascended up into heaven, or descended? who hath gathered the wind in his fists? who hath bound the waters in a garment? who hath established all the ends of the earth? What is his name, and what is his son's name, if thou canst tell? (Proverbs 30:4, KJV).

R7-12

 

[Solo]

Who is Jehovah? Who is Elohim? Who is Theos? Who is Adonai? What is the name of the Word, Jesus in the Old Testament? Where is Jesus mentioned in the Old Testament?

Solo,

You know not even that which you ask.

Who hath ascended up into heaven, or descended? who hath gathered the wind in his fists? who hath bound the waters in a garment? who hath established all the ends of the earth? What is his name, and what is his son's name, if thou canst tell? (Proverbs 30:4, KJV).

R7-12

And yet you continue to avoid answering the questions.

 

[R7-12]

And yet you continue to avoid answering the questions.

It's not avoidance.

You're not able to bear them.

Your response to Proverbs 30:4 makes that evident as have most of your responses to my posts.

R7-12

 

[Solo]

And yet you continue to avoid answering the questions.

It's not avoidance.

You're not able to bear them.

Your response to Proverbs 30:4 makes that evident as have most of your responses to my posts.

R7-12

You have no answer, as it will place you in a corner from which you can not get out. Typical response. Since you do not know the answer, let's let Imagican answer, since it was his post that I was responding to.
Thanks.

 

[Imagican]

Solo,

If you are not saved and it is obvious from my perspective because you do not KNOW Jesus, then in love, I am instructing you with the Word of God as it is for reproof, correction, and instruction in righteousness. This is apart from your conception of other means of information from God.

Who is Jehovah? Who is Elohim? Who is Theos? Who is Adonai? What is the name of the Word, Jesus in the Old Testament? Where is Jesus mentioned in the Old Testament?

Actually what you have asked here are SIX questions. Six MORE questions concerning 'your' understanding of 'trinity'. I really thought that I started this thread to discuss The Spirit and you continue with 'trinity'.

I'm not going to continue with 'this' on this thread. There are about a dozen 'trinity' threads right now and this need NOT be another.

If you would like for me to answer these questions, I require you to answer one that you have avoided on ALL the 'trinity' threads that I have posted it. The question:

A man is lost on a deserted island. He is walking along one day and finds a Bible that has washed ashore. He begins to read. In it's words he FINDS Jesus Christ and developes a relationship with the Father through His Son. Is this man 'lost' or is he able to obtain the 'gift' offered with NO MAN there to 'teach' him?

 

[Solo]

If you would like for me to answer these questions, I require you to answer one that you have avoided on ALL the 'trinity' threads that I have posted it. The question:

A man is lost on a deserted island. He is walking along one day and finds a Bible that has washed ashore. He begins to read. In it's words he FINDS Jesus Christ and developes a relationship with the Father through His Son. Is this man 'lost' or is he able to obtain the 'gift' offered with NO MAN there to 'teach' him?

When God the Spirit reveals the plan of salvation to such a one, the man believes and confesses his sin, turns toward God, and is born again from above. One of the evidences that one is born of God and is no longer lost is the understanding that the Holy Spirit teaches one in the knowledge that Jesus is God. Apart from that understanding the man is void of truth and is bound for condemnation away from God almighty. Beware that other spirits exist other than the Holy Spirit to deceive and lie presenting another gospel other than that of Jesus Christ.

5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. 6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. 7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again. 8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit. John 3:5-8

1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world. 2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God: 3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world. John 4:1-3

12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God. 13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual. 14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. 15 But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man. 16 For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ. 1 Corinthians 2:12-16

 

[Imagican]

Wow, what a manipulative way of 'trying' to 'force' a doctrine upon others. I readily confess that Christ HAS come IN THE FLESH. But, unless I bow down and worship 'trinity', I am lost................. Can't you see the negativity of such a doctrine. Where is the Love, my friend? Love God with all your heart, mind and soul, love your neighbor AS yourself. All the law and the prophets hang on 'these TWO'. So, EVERYTHING that has been written AS LAW and ALL the prophets that have ever uttered a word inspired by God hang on TWO principles. There is NO 'trinity' here.

When Christ was called 'good' He explained in DETAIL that there is NONE that is good save ONE; GOD. This He said directly AFTER correcting someone for calling Him good. But you would manipulate this knowledge for the sake of a 'man-made' doctrine? You would choose to follow a doctrine that was created by the SAME people that tourchered and murdered others that were the 'true' Saints of our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ? Forsaking what He Himself told us of him self in favor of the teachings of men that had 'previously' fed Christians to lions and hacked them to pieces for shear enjoyment? I suppose that it's alright to 'carve statues' of Christ and worship them too AS God?

Solo, I will pray for you. I have in the past and will do so again in the hopes that The Spirit may guide you to an understanding of what 'truly' matters to our Father and His Son. For doctrines of men are NOT what matters to God. When asked HOW we should pray, Christ specifically stated, "OUR FATHER................. This WAS Christ praying.

I would like a 'trin' to offer ONE line of scripture that states Christ was God the Son. Just one. Seems kinda suspicious that this does NOT exist. Why. Why would God be so 'secretive' about 'who' He REALLY is? I say secretive, for HIS OWN PEOPLE know NOT this doctrine of 'trinity'. Christ was SENT to His OWN people, yet they were told NOTHING about this 'triune' nature that you insist MUST be accepted to KNOW God. Funny, I don't remember Moses mentioning a 'triune' God. Or ANY of the prophets for THOUSANDS of YEARS. As a matter of FACT, I don't remember Christ Himself mentioning this 'triune' nature that you place SO much FAITH in. I wonder why?

Even John that the 'trins' place SO much emphasis on when 'trying' to prove 'trinity' NEVER MENTIONED THIS CONCEPT. Strange isn't it? That NONE of the apostles even MENTIONED it? This ALL important doctrine and it is NEVER ONCE mentioned by God, Christ, His apostles or EVEN HIS OWN CHOSEN PEOPLE.

And, when we consider that these SAME people that 'created trinity' were WARNED by Paul in his letter to them that this EXACT thing would happen, it is utterly amazing to me that it is so difficult to let go of.

You have a 'strange' God Solo. One that is much different than the ONE I know. For the God that I worship is a God of Love. He is not a 'secretive, hidden, or deceitful God, but our Father that loves us So much that He sent His OWN SON to die for our sins so that we won't have to. A God that loves us SO much that He is willing to forgive us OVER AND OVER again.

You continue to defend this doctrine and seem to hold it dearer to your heart than God Himself. And to what end? That you would use it to 'judge' your brothers and sisters? Funny, but I don't remember Christ EVER 'forcing' or manipulating ANYONE to 'accept' Him. For that matter, NEITHER has God HIMSELF.