How do we reconcile John 6:44 and John 12:32?

[JLB]

Had syrein been used in either of these Johannine texts, then those who believe that "irresistible grace" means forcing someone to believe against his or her will might argue that Jesus' declarations leave no room for any other interpretation than theirs. But syrein was not used in these passages.

 

[SovereignGrace]

If you study out the Greek word ’helko’, it means to literally drag off, lead, impel, draw by an inward power. If He is drawing all men indiscriminately, then all would be saved. Just like in John 6:44, John 18:10, John 21:11, Acts 16:19, Acts 21:30, and James 2:6. In each verse, those drawn(some versions use dragged) shows ‘helko’ being effective. In other words, those drawn, ppl drawn by God(John 6:44 and John 12:32), Peter’s sword(John 18:10), the net Peter drew to the shore(John 21:11), Paul and Silas dragged to the market place(Acts 16:19, Paul dragged out of the temple(Acts 21:30), rich ppl dragging the oppressed before the court(James 2:6) shows that ‘helko’ is an effectual drawing. That when God draws, they come.

 

[SovereignGrace]

John 6:44, John 12:32, John 18:10, John 21:6, John 21:11, Acts 16:19, Acts 21:30, and James 2:6 are the only places ‘helko’ is used.

 

[TibiasDad]

How can we reconcile these two Scriptures?

John 6:44 (NIV) states: 'No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them, and I will raise them up at the last day'. That's fairly easy to understand. No person will come to Jesus unless experiencing the inner 'drawing' by the Father.

John 12:32 (NIV): 'And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to myself.’ The NIV footnote indicates being 'lifted up' means 'exalted'. Many commentators consider 'I am lifted up' as a reference to Jesus' crucifixion.

How is it possible for ALL people to be drawn to Jesus? The same Greek word for 'draw' is used in these two verses.

Is it possible to reconcile these two verses without John 12:32 meaning all people are drawn to Jesus and thus a promotion of universalism - everyone will be saved?

Oz

It depends on the definition of helkuo! If you take the literal meaning of irresistible dragging then there is a a real conflict between the two verses. But the figurative meaning is not as determinative in its import, but rather a strong enticement but not irresistibly strong. BAGD says it is the "pull on man's inner life" draw as in attracting.

We should maintain the same meaning of the word in both cases, as both are talking about spiritual drawing not literal physical drawing like that of a sword or fish net or dragging someone to prison. All can be drawn by the cross and thus by the Father who instituted the crosses necessity.

Doug

 

[PeterJens]

It depends on the definition of helkuo! If you take the literal meaning of irresistible dragging then there is a a real conflict between the two verses. But the figurative meaning is not as determinative in its import, but rather a strong enticement but not irresistibly strong. BAGD says it is the "pull on man's inner life" draw as in attracting.

We should maintain the same meaning of the word in both cases, as both are talking about spiritual drawing not literal physical drawing like that of a sword or fish net or dragging someone to prison. All can be drawn by the cross and thus by the Father who instituted the crosses necessity.

Doug

Subtlety is in how we define our calling out of darkness into the light.
The more I listen to Jesus, words spoken 2000 years ago, still alive today, in a very different society and cultural setting.

I am humbled by the fact that everything I am is His handiwork, His effect in my life, His leading, His words. The prodigal son when he awoke to the idea he was better as a servant to his father than a lost thrill seeker, he understood life over death, chaos of the moment over reality of growth and life eternal.

In darkness we think we have something of value, rather we are poverty stricken trying to hold on to the little we think we have, thinking this is better than losing everything. I have seen people die in this delusion, even with the gospel right in front of them. We talk pompous words of being secure in Christ, of being born again, or having the secret of eternal life, but often these are phrases spoken with an emotional understanding but not the depth in our hearts.

You begin to see the poverty of understanding when you go into a church and ask people to summarise their life before Jesus, their conversion experience and their life walking with Him. Things need to become clearer and defined, and many social behaviour have been followed with content. It is like the couple who got married but did not know about sex, or what marriage really was.

Until the last day and we see Jesus face to face, will we know how much He truly has done in us. God bless you