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How do you believe in Jesus, someone who you cannot see?

Z

zdanman

Member
I am who some may call a 'seeker' but have grown discouraged. Grew up in a religious household and now am in my late 20s.

Its easy to see the God exists. Creation makes that evident.

I feel like I know God. I've felt His presence. I don't know doctrinally who He is... the God of Abraham; Mohammed; or the Trinity.

I'm sure he is not 100% pleased with me and the way I live but I can only do so much in this skin. I have many ingrained desires and wants which, without supernatural help, I cannot overcome.

But I just cannot come to believe in Jesus (and I have tried for over 20 years). I cannot see him. And there is no evidence of him from what I can see except from history and what people call the New Testament which I have read over many times and yes it is very beautiful and thoughtfully written albeit by men. The message is very compelling but it stops there - at 'believe in me'.

So I raise this question, to help me understand, to those on this forum who say they know Jesus on a personal level - how do you believe Jesus, someone you cannot see and there is no evidence of - verse God who you easily can see exists by nature?

How do you know that you know Jesus on a personal level and not the God of Abraham or some other?

Remember nature tells us there is a God, however I know of nothing that tells me there is a Jesus and He is alive today.... nothing.

How do you know who you are talking to when you pray is Jesus and not the God of Abraham or Mohammed?
 
zdanman said:
I am who some may call a 'seeker' but have grown discouraged. Grew up in a religious household and now am in my late 20s.

Its easy to see the God exists. Creation makes that evident.

I feel like I know God. I've felt His presence. I don't know doctrinally who He is... the God of Abraham; Mohammed; or the Trinity.

I'm sure he is not 100% pleased with me and the way I live but I can only do so much in this skin. I have many ingrained desires and wants which, without supernatural help, I cannot overcome.

But I just cannot come to believe in Jesus (and I have tried for over 20 years). I cannot see him. And there is no evidence of him from what I can see except from history and what people call the New Testament which I have read over many times and yes it is very beautiful and thoughtfully written albeit by men. The message is very compelling but it stops there - at 'believe in me'.

So I raise this question, to help me understand, to those on this forum who say they know Jesus on a personal level - how do you believe Jesus, someone you cannot see and there is no evidence of - verse God who you easily can see exists by nature?

How do you know that you know Jesus on a personal level and not the God of Abraham or some other?

Remember nature tells us there is a God, however I know of nothing that tells me there is a Jesus and He is alive today.... nothing.

How do you know who you are talking to when you pray is Jesus and not the God of Abraham or Mohammed?
Click to expand...

OK,
You say that you can see God in Creation.
Well then as the pinnacle of that creation it all was created by God for you.

And if God created everything (including you) then there is nothing you can give God to "make" Him like you above anyone else.

BUT

God must be inheritantly good. He made the natural order and this world... wanting you to succeed in living a good life here.
(Kinda short sided if God didn't)

I'm going to assume that you have not studied the difference between false humility and real humility vx narcissism. (You totally missed that in your OP)

If you were God how would you exercise the goodness aspect of forgiveness, mercy, and atonement if you had no one to exercise this upon? (Couldn't)
So you would have to create mankind with a free will because everything you create is perfect.
Then out of this group of sinful mankind who would you exercise this goodness aspect that you never before have used...and considering that you are God and not a fool nor can any one of them have anything capable of bribing you with...
Who would you choose to forgive? Extend mercy and grace to?

Probably those who just wanted to be friends with you by doing as your basic nature of being good is.
 
zdanman said:
I am who some may call a 'seeker' but have grown discouraged. Grew up in a religious household and now am in my late 20s.

Its easy to see the God exists. Creation makes that evident.

I feel like I know God. I've felt His presence. I don't know doctrinally who He is... the God of Abraham; Mohammed; or the Trinity.

I'm sure he is not 100% pleased with me and the way I live but I can only do so much in this skin. I have many ingrained desires and wants which, without supernatural help, I cannot overcome.

But I just cannot come to believe in Jesus (and I have tried for over 20 years). I cannot see him. And there is no evidence of him from what I can see except from history and what people call the New Testament which I have read over many times and yes it is very beautiful and thoughtfully written albeit by men. The message is very compelling but it stops there - at 'believe in me'.

So I raise this question, to help me understand, to those on this forum who say they know Jesus on a personal level - how do you believe Jesus, someone you cannot see and there is no evidence of - verse God who you easily can see exists by nature?

How do you know that you know Jesus on a personal level and not the God of Abraham or some other?

Remember nature tells us there is a God, however I know of nothing that tells me there is a Jesus and He is alive today.... nothing.

How do you know who you are talking to when you pray is Jesus and not the God of Abraham or Mohammed?
Click to expand...
my reply would be since you can see God exist you felt his presence
But I just cannot come to believe in Jesus (and I have tried for over 20 years). I cannot see him. And there is no evidence of him from what I can see except from history and what people call the New Testament which I have read over many times and yes it is very beautiful and thoughtfully written albeit by men. The message is very compelling but it stops there - at 'believe in me'.
Click to expand...
ok so your dealing with unbelief . how about you explain why you can believe in God who you have never seen but not Jesus ? my next question is do you believe the Bible/ scriptures the new testament . the presence of God you say you experienced was through the Holy Spirit speaking to your heart . the Holy spirit came after Jesus left earth and went to heaven . you keep wanting evidence i mo this falls into agnostic there might be but i need more evidence . here is my suggestion i am sure others will have more and advice . open up your heart and mind read the new testament from Matthew to Revelations
John 14 i ask you to read john 14 if this don,t testify to you about jesus being real .
{I Am the Way, and the Truth, and the Life} you can either know(personal relationship } Jesus and know the truth or No {no personal relationship} Jesus no truth ==no eternal life
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John+14&version=ESV

i also ask to keep a open mind to all responses to your question
 
One thing that was very obvious to me that Jesus is real, we count years all over the world from the date of HIS birth.

And, why do I know he is real? Nothing I have ever heard in my life........compares to the words Jesus spoke on what love is. This is how I know Jesus and what he represents. God and Love
 
For me the math is fairly simple. God is real.

On this point it sounds like you agree. From there comes the search for,both God and the texts of the prophets from God. Namely wanting to seperate text from doctrine and hope to understand which religion's prophets and texts come from God. By my rxperience, not only is God real, but He is loving and caring. do it stands to readon that at least one of the religions in the world and the prophets of that religion come from God.

Thus God is real, and at least one religion's texts/prophets are from God. Handwritten by men, but inexcapably from God.

From there my journey went to study the bible. The reasoning being that God answers my prayers. Responds with love to the teenage anxiety and sadness that was poured out in prayer. Since I was praying to God, and not to a seperate religion like Hindu gods. The assumption is that at least the Jewish texts of the bible are from God.and read the New Testiment too, to confirm or deny if Christianity is too.

This is where your path and mine seperate though. Where you've read the New Testiment and couldn't find it to believe that Jesus was real; for me it was just the opposite. Readong the Old Testiment was exciting, and felt like the presence I felt in my prayers was right there reading beside me. This occured with both books in the Old Testiment as well as the New. So I came to the conclusion that Jesus is real too. Becsuse of my faith in God, and my trust in the bible, I now also believe in Jesus being the Son of God, and try to rely on Jesus.

Some people I think have had a more direct approach to their relationship with Jesus and they know Him personally more.

The closest I can come to that is if I recoginize that Jesus was there when I found God. Either that God and Jesus are the same in a Trinity sence. Or that God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit are always in contact with eachother and with eachothe. Still with a trinity centered understanding. If the trinity is not quite like either of those then I still say yo trust Jesus. Because either Jesus, the Holy Spirit, or God has been in my life.

Thus I know God is real, that the bible is from God. And that Jesus is taught in the bible to be from God. To even be the Son of God.

Hope that helps
 
zdanman said:
But I just cannot come to believe in Jesus (and I have tried for over 20 years). I cannot see him. And there is no evidence of him from what I can see except from history and what people call the New Testament which I have read over many times
Click to expand...

I'll take your word for that, but it's unusual for a person to read and come to that conclusion.
 
zdanman said:
I am who some may call a 'seeker' but have grown discouraged. Grew up in a religious household and now am in my late 20s.

Its easy to see the God exists. Creation makes that evident.

I feel like I know God. I've felt His presence. I don't know doctrinally who He is... the God of Abraham; Mohammed; or the Trinity.

I'm sure he is not 100% pleased with me and the way I live but I can only do so much in this skin. I have many ingrained desires and wants which, without supernatural help, I cannot overcome.

But I just cannot come to believe in Jesus (and I have tried for over 20 years). I cannot see him. And there is no evidence of him from what I can see except from history and what people call the New Testament which I have read over many times and yes it is very beautiful and thoughtfully written albeit by men. The message is very compelling but it stops there - at 'believe in me'.

So I raise this question, to help me understand, to those on this forum who say they know Jesus on a personal level - how do you believe Jesus, someone you cannot see and there is no evidence of - verse God who you easily can see exists by nature?

How do you know that you know Jesus on a personal level and not the God of Abraham or some other?

Remember nature tells us there is a God, however I know of nothing that tells me there is a Jesus and He is alive today.... nothing.

How do you know who you are talking to when you pray is Jesus and not the God of Abraham or Mohammed?
Click to expand...

Read Cold Case Christianity. The problem isn't the evidence. It's in your thinking (how you are approaching the question). This book will help. Book is written by a former atheist.
 
zdanman said:
I am who some may call a 'seeker' but have grown discouraged. Grew up in a religious household and now am in my late 20s.

Its easy to see the God exists. Creation makes that evident.

I feel like I know God. I've felt His presence. I don't know doctrinally who He is... the God of Abraham; Mohammed; or the Trinity.

I'm sure he is not 100% pleased with me and the way I live but I can only do so much in this skin. I have many ingrained desires and wants which, without supernatural help, I cannot overcome.

But I just cannot come to believe in Jesus (and I have tried for over 20 years). I cannot see him. And there is no evidence of him from what I can see except from history and what people call the New Testament which I have read over many times and yes it is very beautiful and thoughtfully written albeit by men. The message is very compelling but it stops there - at 'believe in me'.

So I raise this question, to help me understand, to those on this forum who say they know Jesus on a personal level - how do you believe Jesus, someone you cannot see and there is no evidence of - verse God who you easily can see exists by nature?

How do you know that you know Jesus on a personal level and not the God of Abraham or some other?

Remember nature tells us there is a God, however I know of nothing that tells me there is a Jesus and He is alive today.... nothing.

How do you know who you are talking to when you pray is Jesus and not the God of Abraham or Mohammed?
Click to expand...

A lot of great advice here. Especially reading the Gospel of John. John was the closest to Jesus as a friend.

I would also venture into the book of Hebrews. Written to Jews who knew God existed (like you) but not knowing the deep love of the Father in sending His only Son Jesus Christ to save us. The author of Hebrews does a great job of tying in key OT passages to show the reader, hearer, the Glorious Nature of Jesus Christ truly God and truly a man.
 
Papa Zoom said:
Read Cold Case Christianity. The problem isn't the evidence. It's in your thinking (how you are approaching the question). This book will help. Book is written by a former atheist.
Click to expand...
Roger that and in addition to all PZ said, Jesus and some of the miracles He performed and were performed because of Him are historical fact. It is easy to belief historical truth.
 
Pegasus said:
A lot of great advice here. Especially reading the Gospel of John. John was the closest to Jesus as a friend.

I would also venture into the book of Hebrews. Written to Jews who knew God existed (like you) but not knowing the deep love of the Father in sending His only Son Jesus Christ to save us. The author of Hebrews does a great job of tying in key OT passages to show the reader, hearer, the Glorious Nature of Jesus Christ truly God and truly a man.
Click to expand...
amen Hebrews is a good book
 
zdanman said:
I am who some may call a 'seeker' but have grown discouraged. Grew up in a religious household and now am in my late 20s.

Its easy to see the God exists. Creation makes that evident.

I feel like I know God. I've felt His presence. I don't know doctrinally who He is... the God of Abraham; Mohammed; or the Trinity.

I'm sure he is not 100% pleased with me and the way I live but I can only do so much in this skin. I have many ingrained desires and wants which, without supernatural help, I cannot overcome.

But I just cannot come to believe in Jesus (and I have tried for over 20 years). I cannot see him. And there is no evidence of him from what I can see except from history and what people call the New Testament which I have read over many times and yes it is very beautiful and thoughtfully written albeit by men. The message is very compelling but it stops there - at 'believe in me'.

So I raise this question, to help me understand, to those on this forum who say they know Jesus on a personal level - how do you believe Jesus, someone you cannot see and there is no evidence of - verse God who you easily can see exists by nature?

How do you know that you know Jesus on a personal level and not the God of Abraham or some other?

Remember nature tells us there is a God, however I know of nothing that tells me there is a Jesus and He is alive today.... nothing.

How do you know who you are talking to when you pray is Jesus and not the God of Abraham or Mohammed?
Click to expand...
I personally see little value in establishing a relationship with God through simply knowing he created all things. God reveals himself for the purpose of salvation through the conviction of sin. Knowing he designed and grew a tree is simply evidence that can help a person accept and embrace God's voice in convicting the sinner of his sin, and how Jesus is the answer for that sin.

Has God been speaking to you by his Spirit in regard to the guilt of the sin that separates you from him, and how Jesus is the reason he can forgive you that sin and bring you into relationship with him? If he has, that is the revelation upon which people believe God and are saved. That voice of conviction about sin and the forgiveness God has given in the sacrifice of Jesus Christ is how and why people believe in God.

"6...it is the Spirit who testifies, because the Spirit is the truth.
9..We accept human testimony, but God’s testimony (through the Holy Spirit) is greater because it is the testimony of God, which he has given about his Son.
10Whoever believes in the Son of God accepts this testimony. Whoever does not believe God has made him out to be a liar, because they have not believed the testimony God has given about his Son.
11And this is the testimony: God has given us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.
(1 John 5:6,9-11 NIV)

History lessons, scientific studies, visible evidence, etc. are not the basis for belief in God. The conviction of the Holy Spirit in one's heart of our sin and the forgiveness of that sin through Christ is.
 
Last edited:
zdanman said:
I am who some may call a 'seeker' but have grown discouraged. Grew up in a religious household and now am in my late 20s.

Its easy to see the God exists. Creation makes that evident.

I feel like I know God. I've felt His presence. I don't know doctrinally who He is... the God of Abraham; Mohammed; or the Trinity.

I'm sure he is not 100% pleased with me and the way I live but I can only do so much in this skin. I have many ingrained desires and wants which, without supernatural help, I cannot overcome.

But I just cannot come to believe in Jesus (and I have tried for over 20 years). I cannot see him. And there is no evidence of him from what I can see except from history and what people call the New Testament which I have read over many times and yes it is very beautiful and thoughtfully written albeit by men. The message is very compelling but it stops there - at 'believe in me'.

So I raise this question, to help me understand, to those on this forum who say they know Jesus on a personal level - how do you believe Jesus, someone you cannot see and there is no evidence of - verse God who you easily can see exists by nature?

How do you know that you know Jesus on a personal level and not the God of Abraham or some other?

Remember nature tells us there is a God, however I know of nothing that tells me there is a Jesus and He is alive today.... nothing.

How do you know who you are talking to when you pray is Jesus and not the God of Abraham or Mohammed?
Click to expand...
Hi Zdanman
I'd say that the ability to believe in Jesus is directly related to believing in the resurrection.
It all hinges on that.
If the resurrection is not true, then nothing is true.
So the question becomes:
Why do we believe or not believe in the resurrection?
Can we trust the men who told us that it happened?
If we can trust the Apostles, we can believe what they said about Jesus.
If we cannot trust them, then they were able to get away with the biggest conspiracy ever perpetrated and they treated us as fools.

Which do you believe?

Wondering
 
Last edited:
wondering said:
Hi Zdanman
I'd say that the ability to believe in Jesus is directly related to believing in the resurrection.
It all hinges on that.
If the resurrection is not true, then nothing is true.
So the question becomes:
Why do we believe or not believe in the resurrection?
Can we trust the men who told us that it happened?
If we can trust the Apostles, we can believe what they said about Jesus.
If we cannot trust them, then they were able to get away with the biggest conspiracy ever and they treated us as fools.

Which do you believe?

Wondering
Click to expand...
Well put!
 
JohnDB said:
OK,
You say that you can see God in Creation.
Well then as the pinnacle of that creation it all was created by God for you.

And if God created everything (including you) then there is nothing you can give God to "make" Him like you above anyone else.

BUT

God must be inheritantly good. He made the natural order and this world... wanting you to succeed in living a good life here.
(Kinda short sided if God didn't)

I'm going to assume that you have not studied the difference between false humility and real humility vx narcissism. (You totally missed that in your OP)

If you were God how would you exercise the goodness aspect of forgiveness, mercy, and atonement if you had no one to exercise this upon? (Couldn't)
So you would have to create mankind with a free will because everything you create is perfect.
Then out of this group of sinful mankind who would you exercise this goodness aspect that you never before have used...and considering that you are God and not a fool nor can any one of them have anything capable of bribing you with...
Who would you choose to forgive? Extend mercy and grace to?

Probably those who just wanted to be friends with you by doing as your basic nature of being good is.
Click to expand...
No one can truly believe in Jesus, in the sense that you are referring to, without the Holy Spirit of God drawing the person to Him. No amount of mental gymnastics and logical conclusions will get you there.
You already believe in God, whom you cannot see, so that cannot be your problem in seeing why you need Jesus.

If you were to die today do you believe that you are worthy of being a child of God?
My suggestion would be to read Jethro's post #12 carefully.
 
Deborah13 said:
No one can truly believe in Jesus, in the sense that you are referring to, without the Holy Spirit of God drawing the person to Him. No amount of mental gymnastics and logical conclusions will get you there.
You already believe in God, whom you cannot see, so that cannot be your problem in seeing why you need Jesus.

If you were to die today do you believe that you are worthy of being a child of God?
My suggestion would be to read Jethro's post #12 carefully.
Click to expand...
The problem with what you present here is that God does call evey man to salvation but few are they that answer.
 
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