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How do you believe in Jesus, someone who you cannot see?

vsiv3347 said:
Oddly enough cowboy, I was answering the original question with a question. Got the idea from Ravi Zaccharias.

Really glad you answered it that way that, that's a great story that you told and I thank you for it because I'm a performer too.
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If I got nothing more from running after that gold ring, I learned to read the crowd and I came away with a gift of gab. It drives my wife nuts that I have never met a stranger, but the stage was meant for me and me for it. Famous, when I was young, it mattered but at forty-five, when Nashville was offered, who cares? Just wanted to play and sing with somebody.
 
zdanman said:
I am who some may call a 'seeker' but have grown discouraged. Grew up in a religious household and now am in my late 20s.

Its easy to see the God exists. Creation makes that evident.

I feel like I know God. I've felt His presence. I don't know doctrinally who He is... the God of Abraham; Mohammed; or the Trinity.

I'm sure he is not 100% pleased with me and the way I live but I can only do so much in this skin. I have many ingrained desires and wants which, without supernatural help, I cannot overcome.

But I just cannot come to believe in Jesus (and I have tried for over 20 years). I cannot see him. And there is no evidence of him from what I can see except from history and what people call the New Testament which I have read over many times and yes it is very beautiful and thoughtfully written albeit by men. The message is very compelling but it stops there - at 'believe in me'.

So I raise this question, to help me understand, to those on this forum who say they know Jesus on a personal level - how do you believe Jesus, someone you cannot see and there is no evidence of - verse God who you easily can see exists by nature?

How do you know that you know Jesus on a personal level and not the God of Abraham or some other?

Remember nature tells us there is a God, however I know of nothing that tells me there is a Jesus and He is alive today.... nothing.

How do you know who you are talking to when you pray is Jesus and not the God of Abraham or Mohammed?
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hi

For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe. 1 Corinthians 1.21

there is no logic rationality or theory to God and the free gift of salvation

it can only be received by faith and not by facts data or evidence

that's how you meet God

you must be willing to put aside your own understanding or wisdom as the beginning of the verse says

and allow God to save you by hearing the good news message and responding

to the invitation of receiving hm as your Lord and savior

when you repent ask for forgiveness and confess him

this is the beginning of your personal relationship with Jesus

it is one step at a time

I hope this helps you

Peace
 
zdanman said:
I am who some may call a 'seeker' but have grown discouraged. Grew up in a religious household and now am in my late 20s.

Its easy to see the God exists. Creation makes that evident.

I feel like I know God. I've felt His presence. I don't know doctrinally who He is... the God of Abraham; Mohammed; or the Trinity.

I'm sure he is not 100% pleased with me and the way I live but I can only do so much in this skin. I have many ingrained desires and wants which, without supernatural help, I cannot overcome.

But I just cannot come to believe in Jesus (and I have tried for over 20 years). I cannot see him. And there is no evidence of him from what I can see except from history and what people call the New Testament which I have read over many times and yes it is very beautiful and thoughtfully written albeit by men. The message is very compelling but it stops there - at 'believe in me'.

So I raise this question, to help me understand, to those on this forum who say they know Jesus on a personal level - how do you believe Jesus, someone you cannot see and there is no evidence of - verse God who you easily can see exists by nature?

How do you know that you know Jesus on a personal level and not the God of Abraham or some other?

Remember nature tells us there is a God, however I know of nothing that tells me there is a Jesus and He is alive today.... nothing.

How do you know who you are talking to when you pray is Jesus and not the God of Abraham or Mohammed?
Click to expand...
Thank you. I understand your fears and concern about this topic. The problem here is that you have tried all along to relate with this issue on a physical level and spiritual level. The Christian faith is deeply a spiritual faith and experience. The Bible says we walk by faith and not by sight.

Now if you believe there is God because of the natural things you see. Do you believe man must relate with this God effectively on this earth?

Do you also believe the sin story of Adam and Eve, historical proofs are there for this event.

There are also historical proofs that Jesus lived on this earth. You need to find this out. If He lived on this earth, what did He come to do. What type of death did He die. Are there proofs of the activities of the disciples preaching in His name after He resurrected. I believe you can always find physical proofs of these.

Even the fiercest enemies of the Christian faith have confirmed these events in their books, teachings and other materials.

Now Jesus came to unite man back to God, the One nature shows exist. Jesus's sacrifice helped to achieve this. The contents of the Bible are accounts of real people who God helped to keep the records for people like us who were not there it happened. So we have every reason to believe the writings. At least we have believed the stories of grandma and grand pa even though we were not there when the events happened.

Throw away every unbelief. Approach God in a conversation and speak directly to Jesus to show Himself to you if He truly lives. from personal experience, he will in His own way and in a way that's unique to you.
 
zdanman said:
I am who some may call a 'seeker' but have grown discouraged. Grew up in a religious household and now am in my late 20s.

Its easy to see the God exists. Creation makes that evident.

I feel like I know God. I've felt His presence. I don't know doctrinally who He is... the God of Abraham; Mohammed; or the Trinity.

I'm sure he is not 100% pleased with me and the way I live but I can only do so much in this skin. I have many ingrained desires and wants which, without supernatural help, I cannot overcome.

But I just cannot come to believe in Jesus (and I have tried for over 20 years). I cannot see him. And there is no evidence of him from what I can see except from history and what people call the New Testament which I have read over many times and yes it is very beautiful and thoughtfully written albeit by men. The message is very compelling but it stops there - at 'believe in me'.

So I raise this question, to help me understand, to those on this forum who say they know Jesus on a personal level - how do you believe Jesus, someone you cannot see and there is no evidence of - verse God who you easily can see exists by nature?

How do you know that you know Jesus on a personal level and not the God of Abraham or some other?

Remember nature tells us there is a God, however I know of nothing that tells me there is a Jesus and He is alive today.... nothing.

How do you know who you are talking to when you pray is Jesus and not the God of Abraham or Mohammed?
Click to expand...

20 years? Those who seek find. Those who ask receive. Those who knock and the door is opened. Why can't you see? Jesus is Gods Christ. The Son of the Living God. I suggest prayer to Jesus as you can ask Him anything. Including, "Lord help me with my unbelief."
Jesus baptizes with the Holy Spirit. Ask Him for that gift. The Fathers promise.

The purpose of the NT is to believe and in believing GO to Jesus for life. (prayer) Ask Him for living water which will become in you a spring welling up into eternal life.

I suggest you view Jesus as Gods Christ. The one the God of Israel sent into the world. Jesus stated he received all authority in heaven and earth from the Father. And as the Father has life in himself and gives life He has granted the Son to have life in Himself and to give life as He pleases. Furthermore all the fullness of the Godhead was pleased to dwell in Jesus. (given) Therefore Jesus is indeed the exact representation of Gods being. Nothing is hidden from Him. Nothing. So be truthful to Him in prayer.



Randy
 
vsiv3347 said:
Oddly enough cowboy, I was answering the original question with a question. Got the idea from Ravi Zaccharias.

Really glad you answered it that way that, that's a great story that you told and I thank you for it because I'm a performer too.
Click to expand...
LOL! The only person that calls me Cowboy these days is my wife because she knows where I've been. I pray you success and if it comes do not turn it away as I did.
 
If you are not a Christian and according to you words you are not, you must come to know that God's first name is Jesus.
That Jesus lived and died is historical fact. That He is indeed God Almighty you will discover if you are honestly seeking.

I did not know Him at all and He came forty years ago and saved me. I was in no church and did not like church. Church people came and asked me to go to church but never told me why. There was no love, no message of forgiveness.

I came to know that Jesus was God because when I prayed in His name things happened. After He saved me, and I had no idea what saved was, He then baptized me in the Holy Spirit. And I did not know what that was. Acts 19th chapter tells us. All of this agreed with what I began to read in the Bible. You cannot believe in the God of the Bible without seeing that Jesus is the creator.

My wife and I could not have children. Her body killed my sperm on contact. She was allergic to my seed! Science could do nothing. Even artifical insemination with my sermon did not work. Jesus had another plan. We prayed to Jesus and He said He was going to send us a son. After 14 years childless He spoke to me and said my wife was pregnant. We went to a lab that confirmed God's - Jesus that is - word. Our son was born June 25 1980 and today is a minister of Jesus.

There must be faith towards Him. Pray honestly in His name and ask Him to do some secret thing that no one else knows of. When it is answered you know that Jesus has heard and worked.
Believing in Jesus is easy. Being separated from Him would be horrible.

I was 33 when He came and touched my life, changed me into a new man. The same age He was when He died on the cross. You really do get born again. Recreated into a brand new man or woman. I pray that you open your heart to Him and the spirit of unbelief be cast from you. He will reveal Himself to you but you must not reject His honest approach.

It's serious for you. He said;

Unless you believe that I am HE you will die in your sin.

I pray the eyes of your understanding be open and that you not be an unbeliever.
 
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I pray that some wonderful man, woman, or child might read my Brothers excellent message and trust Jesus now, He's waiting for you with open arms.
 
Zdanman quote- "..how do you believe Jesus, someone you cannot see and there is no evidence of.."
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I never saw Elvis with my own eyes but I'm quite prepared to believe he existed and made great prophetic utterances such as "stay offa mah blue suede shoes" because thousands of people saw and heard him.
Same with Jesus, he went on the road for 3 long years-
"Jesus went through all the towns and villages" (Matt 9:35)
and was seen by everybody including the 600-strong Roman army garrison, that's a lot of eyewitnesses.
And remember, when the first gospels were written, NOBODY -not a single person- ever came forward from the people or the priests or the Romans to say "baloney, it never happened".
That's because Jesus was too big to have been a myth and they knew they'd just be making fools of themselves..:)
 
zdanman said:
I am who some may call a 'seeker' but have grown discouraged. Grew up in a religious household and now am in my late 20s.

Its easy to see the God exists. Creation makes that evident.

I feel like I know God. I've felt His presence. I don't know doctrinally who He is... the God of Abraham; Mohammed; or the Trinity.

I'm sure he is not 100% pleased with me and the way I live but I can only do so much in this skin. I have many ingrained desires and wants which, without supernatural help, I cannot overcome.

But I just cannot come to believe in Jesus (and I have tried for over 20 years). I cannot see him. And there is no evidence of him from what I can see except from history and what people call the New Testament which I have read over many times and yes it is very beautiful and thoughtfully written albeit by men. The message is very compelling but it stops there - at 'believe in me'.

So I raise this question, to help me understand, to those on this forum who say they know Jesus on a personal level - how do you believe Jesus, someone you cannot see and there is no evidence of - verse God who you easily can see exists by nature?

How do you know that you know Jesus on a personal level and not the God of Abraham or some other?

Remember nature tells us there is a God, however I know of nothing that tells me there is a Jesus and He is alive today.... nothing.

How do you know who you are talking to when you pray is Jesus and not the God of Abraham or Mohammed?
Click to expand...

You make an artificial distinction between Jesus, the Trinity, and the God of Abraham. Who is also the God of Ishmael, held to be the beginning of the Arab / Jew conflict.

You start with Deism. Going from there to Christian doctrine, historical evidence of Jesus' existence might help you? There's oodles! It helps some people that struggle with what you say here.

Muslims really only come to Christ when God gives them a dream. You can ask God to show Himself to you in some way that will be meaningful to you! If you do so you should be prepared for several things:

1) read the Bible and when you come across good things, ask God to make it a reality to you. Yes I know, this will feel weird; do it anyway. Modern translations are fine.
2) God will NOT show up in the way you expect, He is well known for this!
3) Get believers praying for you. Online is ok but it's not the same as IRL. Go to a Church for this if you must. Go along with whatever ritual or practice they want.
4) The change will come inside you. It will be unique to you! It will also have something in common with every one of us here.
5) It may prove to be the most difficult thing you've ever done. If so, it will also be the most worthwhile thing you've ever done.
 
Scripture would state we listened and learned from the Father as the Holy Spirit bears witness. He speaks what He hears.
The scriptures also bear witness. I think having faith in that witness is by the Holy Spirit. I was pointed to Jesus because I have a Christian Mother and as far back as my memory goes I have loved and believed and prayed to Jesus and also the Father. I have never prayed to the HS. And Jesus made Himself known to me via the Spirit. The worshippers that God "seeks" are those that worship in Spirit and in truth. Those of us who have the Fathers promise the gift of God in us know with certainty that Jesus lives!

Like Jesus stating to Peter.
Simon Peter answered, “You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God.”
Jesus replied, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by flesh and blood, but by my Father in heaven.
 
I've never seen Mother Teresa but I believe she lived...the people who knew her have written about her and have said their lives were changed. The historians have written about her. Her own words have been written and verified that they were truly said by her. The same for Nelson Mandela and others, INCLUDING Jesus. So you can't say you don't believe he was real. Sorry, but to say otherwise shows you have not thought this through.

And think about his disciples who were willing to DIE because they not only believe he lived but they also believed IN him and his teachings. Either he was demented, a liar, or he was truly the Son of God. His words have changed people's lives, have given comfort to many and have continued to draw followers for 2000 years. I don't believe a person who is demented or who is a liar could have done that. Can you honestly say otherwise?

Finally I suggest you read Lee Strobel's book "The Case for Christ" or the writings of C. S. Lewis. Both men were doubters who set out to disprove Jesus but ended up believers.
 
zdanman said:
I am who some may call a 'seeker' but have grown discouraged. Grew up in a religious household and now am in my late 20s.

Its easy to see the God exists. Creation makes that evident.

I feel like I know God. I've felt His presence. I don't know doctrinally who He is... the God of Abraham; Mohammed; or the Trinity.

I'm sure he is not 100% pleased with me and the way I live but I can only do so much in this skin. I have many ingrained desires and wants which, without supernatural help, I cannot overcome.

But I just cannot come to believe in Jesus (and I have tried for over 20 years). I cannot see him. And there is no evidence of him from what I can see except from history and what people call the New Testament which I have read over many times and yes it is very beautiful and thoughtfully written albeit by men. The message is very compelling but it stops there - at 'believe in me'.

So I raise this question, to help me understand, to those on this forum who say they know Jesus on a personal level - how do you believe Jesus, someone you cannot see and there is no evidence of - verse God who you easily can see exists by nature?

How do you know that you know Jesus on a personal level and not the God of Abraham or some other?

Remember nature tells us there is a God, however I know of nothing that tells me there is a Jesus and He is alive today.... nothing.

How do you know who you are talking to when you pray is Jesus and not the God of Abraham or Mohammed?
Click to expand...
Stop talking.
When we pray we are talking to God.
God talks/responds to us through His Word.
Stop talk.
Read (listen).
 
zdanman said:
I'm sure he is not 100% pleased with me and the way I live but I can only do so much in this skin. I have many ingrained desires and wants which, without supernatural help, I cannot overcome.
Click to expand...
I think this statement is key in knowing why you haven't come to understand who Christ is. Jesus said, "My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me. If any will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself (John 7:16-17)."

The key in knowing if Jesus is from God, is, according to Jesus, to follow Jesus' doctrine/teachings. It sounds like a challenge to me. In the sense that Jesus is challenging us to find out whether or not He is from the one true God, or if he speaks of himself. The Jews of His time wanting to know the same question you are asking yourself, and this is the answer Jesus gave.

I quoted your paragraph above because this is what you need to let go of if you want to find Jesus. You must let go of the idea that you can't change, unless God intervenes. Many people use this same argument as an excuse for their lack of obedience to Him. Sure, we may not be perfect or get it right... But the question is: Are we trying to change? We know within ourselves that we can change for something we really want, so we know we are capable of changing... The question remains: Do we really want to change those sins that are in our lives, or do we want to continue in it? God comes into the picture after we make the decision to change. God gave us free will for a reason. He will step in when we allow Him too, and He won't step in if we keep ourselves closed. It's as simple as that.

The more we try to put Jesus' teachings into action, the more Jesus will become revealed in our lives as a living spirit.

In peace
 
zdanman said:
And there is no evidence of him from what I can see except from history
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Strange even atheist accept that Jesus really lived.

Whjat evidence are you looking for?
What evidence will you accept?

That you say you cannot believe in Jesus, having repeatedly read the NT, implies that you want some extra ordinary evidence.

A Challenge.

Can you prove that Jesus did not rise from the dead.
 
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zdanman said:
I am who some may call a 'seeker' but have grown discouraged. Grew up in a religious household and now am in my late 20s.

Its easy to see the God exists. Creation makes that evident.

I feel like I know God. I've felt His presence. I don't know doctrinally who He is... the God of Abraham; Mohammed; or the Trinity.

I'm sure he is not 100% pleased with me and the way I live but I can only do so much in this skin. I have many ingrained desires and wants which, without supernatural help, I cannot overcome.

But I just cannot come to believe in Jesus (and I have tried for over 20 years). I cannot see him. And there is no evidence of him from what I can see except from history and what people call the New Testament which I have read over many times and yes it is very beautiful and thoughtfully written albeit by men. The message is very compelling but it stops there - at 'believe in me'.

So I raise this question, to help me understand, to those on this forum who say they know Jesus on a personal level - how do you believe Jesus, someone you cannot see and there is no evidence of - verse God who you easily can see exists by nature?

How do you know that you know Jesus on a personal level and not the God of Abraham or some other?

Remember nature tells us there is a God, however I know of nothing that tells me there is a Jesus and He is alive today.... nothing.

How do you know who you are talking to when you pray is Jesus and not the God of Abraham or Mohammed?
Click to expand...

Hello zdanman my friend. I know where your coming from because I had the same incredulity. I don't claim to have a personal relationship with Jesus or God and don't really understand those kind of claims. But iv inserted a link to an article that really helped me. Listen to the audio of it. It tries to show that the resurrection took place. It's presented like a court hearing as he presents different lines of evidence.

U know the story of Thomas the disciple and his incredulity? John 20: 24-29. Please read it if you are unfamiliar. It describes me at one point.

Anyway here is the link i hope it helps u to see Jesus and feel his wounds. God Bless
https://www.gotquestions.org/why-believe-resurrection.html

95105.jpg
 
Just letting you all know that zdanman has not been here since starting this thread back in December, 2016, and has not been back. Most likely just a fly-by.
 
If there is a God, will you want Him to be a God or love or hate? I will want my God to be a God of love and Jesus is that.

Jesus died on the cross for you. Though He held the power to destroy everyone who crucified Him, He chose to suffer and die so that your sins can be washed away.

That love of Jesus is the greatest proof that He is God.
 
JohnDB said:
If you were God how would you exercise the goodness aspect of forgiveness, mercy, and atonement if you had no one to exercise this upon? (Couldn't)
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Why would He need to? In a world in which everyone had everything they needed and everyone was happy, there would be no crime (I assume that the majority of people commit crimes because they lack something, either money, love, respect, safety etc.). In such a world, in which no one ever wronged anyone else, would beings seek for another emotion other than love?
 
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