How do you know God is real?

[TRUTH over TRADITION]

Personally, I do not believe there is much of an argument as it pertains to whether or not there is a God or should I say an intelligence that is/was FIRST CAUSE of all that has come into being. The question is not whether this "first cause" exists, but rather we should be aking the following:

1. Is this "first cause" God personal?
2. Can we know or learn of God?
3. Is this God actively involved the daily lives of its creations?
4. Did God provide a way for us to identify who or what IT/He is?
5. Is there a way to use the fact we know of to show that the God of the Bible is indeed the First Cause?

 

[Oats]

Deavonreye


The Universe has order, thats why matter holds itself together and adheres to the laws of this universe....


If the Universe has no order than you could n ot in any way hold me to anyone's moral or social standards

 

[Deavonreye]

Parts have an order to them, but not a purpose. They are governed by principles without an intelligence behind them. There is also much chaos in the universe.

cleanfreak, I don't really have a "belief" at this time in my life. I don't reject the possibility of something "supernatural" being out there, I've just had no experiences to dictate a path. I'm all for finding something real. . . .but it has to BE real. Not someone else's experience or pious beliefs. Remember, one person's "faith" is another person's "heresy".

 

[cleanfreak]

Parts have an order to them, but not a purpose. They are governed by principles without an intelligence behind them. There is also much chaos in the universe.

cleanfreak, I don't really have a "belief" at this time in my life. I don't reject the possibility of something "supernatural" being out there, I've just had no experiences to dictate a path. I'm all for finding something real. . . .but it has to BE real. Not someone else's experience or pious beliefs. Remember, one person's "faith" is another person's "heresy".

Very well said and I respect your honesty. I will pray that the experience you are looking for will happen very soon.

 

[childeye]

Apologies if I put this question in the wrong forum.

I've been chatting with a guy that calls himself an Agnostic but I believe he may be atheist.

I've quoted scriptures, I've mentioned the numerous prophecies fulfilled, I've mentioned the facts that the Bible possibly mentions dinosaurs, mountains under the sea, what foods are good and not good for our bodies, I've mentioned how the Bible says the earth is round and that the earth is sitting on nothing. Everything I say, he explains it away.

Yesterday, God put a verse of scripture in my head, "Search for me with all of your heart and you will find me." In other words, I believe God was saying to me, until that guy himself searches for God, he will not believe anything I say.

But now, I want to know for myself, why you know God is real. (for future references when I speak to an agnostic or atheist)

God is Love and He is Truth and He is Spirit. It is impossible that He does not exist. As creator He is more real than we are. Everyone feels Love or the absence of in some degree according to our weakness or strength of faith. He is Truth; All men have an absolute from which we reason all binary terms,good bad,rich poor,knowledge ignorance. Everyman therefore has an image of God by which we define our terms. We were all sold a false inage of God when Satan portrayed Him as a self-serving God which made the choice presented by Satan to disobey God viable. Hence Satan says "you can disobey God and live". We have been subject to Satans' false image ever since. The Christ was sent to show the True Image of God and restore the Holiness of the True God in our psyche. His death on the cross and forgiveness to those who crucified him reveal the True nature of God's love. If we believe in the Christ the false image of God is washed away, and our moral spirit is renewed with a love of God that is willing to serve Him. And since His True Image resides in our spirit we become like Him and are transformed into the children of God.

 

[Deavonreye]

Thank you, cleanfreak!

 

[WIP]

I think it is safe to assume there is a God

There's no assumption involved. There indeed is a God.

 

[childeye]

I am an atheist and I have no problem with faith as long as it is progressive and not regressive. Then again, I am better than 99 per cent of all Atheists.

Is Love real? God is Love. Is Truth real? God is Truth. As far as faith goes even an atheist has faith though it is not pointed in the right directio. Allow me point out to you that all people believe something to be true. what is hypocritical and lost reasoning? One that believes the truth is there is no Truth.

So since we must have an absolute that rules our reasoning we all have some image of God. And that image predetermines our binary terms, such as good bad, rich poor, success failure. But regarding our moral spirit which governs how we treat others the Christ was sent by the True God as the True image of Himself so that if one believes in this Christ so that his false image is washed away he will be transformed according to this new Image and consequently become children of God.

Understand there is a spiritual battle going on to keep people from believing in this Jesus. The forces of evil are in a counter direction of Love and do not want people to believe in love. Unfortunately us humans must sometimes believe in the devil before we believe in God. Go read the newspaper and tell me there is no devil out there in the world.

This Jesus displayed a Love that is trustworthy and eternal, and we see it on a cross forgiving viscious a brutal torture on account of those who are evil know not what they do. Believe in him , walk in him and you will recieve the Holy Spirit by believing in the one whom the True God sent so that whosoever believes in him will be saved.

 

[Sam21]

It can be very frustrating to look for God. It is so very strange because while we are striving to find God and make sense of the world, unknown to us, God is striving to make contact with us, we just do not recognize what God is doing because God comes to us on a spiritual level and we are trying to find God with out mind.
A beginning to finding God is to accept that He is and that He knows everything,so you are dealing with a much greater intelligence. It seems that many folks approach God with the idea that they are superior in intelligence,that is a mistake. Talk to God, tell Him you want to be accepted by Him and you need Him to help you know what to do.

 

[Oats]

Parts have an order to them, but not a purpose. They are governed by principles without an intelligence behind them. There is also much chaos in the universe.

cleanfreak, I don't really have a "belief" at this time in my life. I don't reject the possibility of something "supernatural" being out there, I've just had no experiences to dictate a path. I'm all for finding something real. . . .but it has to BE real. Not someone else's experience or pious beliefs. Remember, one person's "faith" is another person's "heresy".

tha tis is your opinion, a very false one at that


the "chaos" is a by product of the order

even math problems have products

 

[Elijah674]

<HR>
Heb.6

[1] Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; ....

[3] And this will we do, if God permit. (if we can???)

[4] .... for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
[5] And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,


Ok, 'i' scratched out the negatives. But these ones [KNOW] THAT THE WORD OF GOD IS TRUE!

Only the ones that are found never being re/born do not know. And verse 6 finds these same above ones which could care less when & [IF] they go past the Sin Against The Holy Ghost.

--Elijah

 

[Deavonreye]

tha tis is your opinion, a very false one at that


the "chaos" is a by product of the order

even math problems have products

Look, Oats. What I stated isn't false at all. I wasn't saying that it is COMPLETELY chaotic!!! But there IS a measure of chaos in the universe.

Regardless of what you are attempting to say here, even IF the universe were COMPLETELY orderly, that BY NO MEANS indicates that the Hebrew god of the Bible is real! 2

 

[Oats]

Look, Oats. What I stated isn't false at all. I wasn't saying that it is COMPLETELY chaotic!!! But there IS a measure of chaos in the universe.

Regardless of what you are attempting to say here, even IF the universe were COMPLETELY orderly, that BY NO MEANS indicates that the Hebrew god of the Bible is real! 2

did i say it meant the Hebrew/Christian God was real due to the orderly fashion of the universe?

There is other evidence for that

I'm not mad at you

Remember people don't argue over facts

Neither do they argue over complete non sense

 

[Deavonreye]

Oats, because you are a christian, I can only assume that you mean the Hebrew god described in the bible as the only way the universe is as it is. Am I right?

Here's an interesting Douglas Adams quote:


<TABLE border=0 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 width="100%"><TBODY><TR><TD>

This is rather as if you imagine a puddle waking up one morning and thinking, ‘This is an interesting world I find myself in – an interesting hole I find myself in – fits me rather neatly, doesn’t it? In fact it fits me staggeringly well, must have been made to have me in it!’ This is such a powerful idea that as the sun rises in the sky and the air heats up and as, gradually, the puddle gets smaller and smaller, it’s still frantically hanging on to the notion that everything’s going to be alright, because this world was meant to have him in it, was built to have him in it; so the moment he disappears catches him rather by surprise.​

</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

 

[abrown9]

I can tell now you are not an atheist, just from this statement. I would dare to guess 99% of atheist would never post this.

With that said, you have "NO" under your christian status. May I ask what do you believe in?

:

I would respectfully disagree. I know a lot of atheists that are perfectly fine with other people believing in what they want to believe, myself included.

I think its a "to each his own" scenario. I look up at the night sky and am no filled with no less wonder than someone who believes it is God's creation. Natural beauty requires nothing more than its own amazing complexity and simplicity to amaze me.

 

[Gendou Ikari]

Is Love real? God is Love. Is Truth real? God is Truth. As far as faith goes even an atheist has faith though it is not pointed in the right directio. Allow me point out to you that all people believe something to be true. what is hypocritical and lost reasoning? One that believes the truth is there is no Truth.

So since we must have an absolute that rules our reasoning we all have some image of God. And that image predetermines our binary terms, such as good bad, rich poor, success failure. But regarding our moral spirit which governs how we treat others the Christ was sent by the True God as the True image of Himself so that if one believes in this Christ so that his false image is washed away he will be transformed according to this new Image and consequently become children of God.

Understand there is a spiritual battle going on to keep people from believing in this Jesus. The forces of evil are in a counter direction of Love and do not want people to believe in love. Unfortunately us humans must sometimes believe in the devil before we believe in God. Go read the newspaper and tell me there is no devil out there in the world.

This Jesus displayed a Love that is trustworthy and eternal, and we see it on a cross forgiving viscious a brutal torture on account of those who are evil know not what they do. Believe in him , walk in him and you will recieve the Holy Spirit by believing in the one whom the True God sent so that whosoever believes in him will be saved.

1) When I go read the newspaper, I find it almost impossible to believe there is a God, and if there is a God, He probably does not care about us. When a human being stands by and watches another person getting stabbed to death without doing a thing to stop it or get help, we call that evil. However, when God stands by and watches as women and children are raped daily as sex slaves we call Him loving and build churches in his honour. The double standard does not work for me.

2) There are many passage in the Bible that work against Love. For instance, same-sex couples are discriminated against in the Bible. Everybody knows, whether they want to admit it or not, that homosexual couples can Love just as much as heterosexual couples, so I cannot envision how that prohibition against same-sex relationships fosters Love.

[note: when I refer to same-sex couples, I have in mind, committed relationships]

 

[reba]

1) When I go read the newspaper, I find it almost impossible to believe there is a God, and if there is a God, He probably does not care about us. When a human being stands by and watches another person getting stabbed to death without doing a thing to stop it or get help, we call that evil. However, when God stands by and watches as women and children are raped daily as sex slaves we call Him loving and build churches in his honour. The double standard does not work for me.

double standards? you who believes the killing of the unborn get real.

 

[Elijah674]

<HR>
Heb.6

[1] Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; ....

[3] And this will we do, if God permit. (if we can???)

[4] .... for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
[5] And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,


Ok, 'i' scratched out the negatives. But these ones [KNOW] THAT THE WORD OF GOD IS TRUE!

Only the ones that are found never being re/born do not know. And verse 6 finds these same above ones which could care less when & [IF] they go past the Sin Against The Holy Ghost.

--Elijah

Me again: Well Lord, when ever you find it time to finish your earthly court trial using these ones who cannot & just flat out will not be moved as seen by their lived life, & their own free 'spoken and lived life, which is seen & printed documented stuff, then let it be known that they will be as THOUGH THEY HAD NEVER BEEN! Obad. 1:16
and Your verdict is VERY FINAL!

--Elijah

 

[Elijah674]

Me again: Well Lord, when ever you find it time to finish your earthly court trial using these ones who cannot & just flat out will not be moved as seen by their lived life, & their own free 'spoken and lived life, which is seen & printed documented stuff, then let it be known that they will be as THOUGH THEY HAD NEVER BEEN! Obad. 1:16
and Your verdict is VERY FINAL!

--Elijah

Me again:
There will be a time that ALL will know that God IS REAL. And then because of their FINAL DECISION, these ones will lovingly be put out of their misery for ALL OF ETERNITY & will never need to be concerned about this question ever again. Both class huh?

Mal.4
[1] For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the LORD of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch.

[2] But unto you that fear my name shall the Sun of righteousness arise with healing in his wings; and ye shall go forth, and grow up as calves of the stall.
[3] And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do this, saith the LORD of hosts.

 

[Gendou Ikari]

double standards? you who believes the killing of the unborn get real.

Isn't it hypocritical for you to condemn me, since God is known to repeatedly kill the unborn and children, not just in genocidal commands given to the Israelis and Judah, but, for instance, slowly killing David's son for a crime he never committed?

2 Samuel 12:14-15 (King James Version)
Howbeit, because by this deed thou hast given great occasion to the enemies of the LORD to blaspheme, the child also that is born unto thee shall surely die. And Nathan departed unto his house. And the LORD struck the child that Uriah's wife bare unto David, and it was very sick.