-
-
Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
Join For His Glory for a discussion on how
https://christianforums.net/threads/a-vessel-of-honor.110278/
-
-
-
-
Taking the time to pray? Christ is the answer in times of need
https://christianforums.net/threads/psalm-70-1-save-me-o-god-lord-help-me-now.108509/
-
sheshisown
Member
- May 25, 2008
- 1,364
- 0
freeway01 said:
Si senor, me too a hugiantic failure without our most precious, marvelous, Saviour !
Ahhhhh Jesus!
D
duncdawg
Guest
- Thread starter
- #103
I definitely get saved every day, from all sorts of things.
Adullam
Member
- Mar 28, 2009
- 2,175
- 2
kton16 said:
I'm sorry, but that is not the purpose of the gift of discerning of spirits. No man knows how events will turn out. It will be a surprise for all. It is God alone who justifies. No matter how hard you try justifying yourself because of belief or practice...only God really knows!
Adullam said:
Its not but its a Gift, they can help the person so he/she could understand better. (not saved) Exactly, no one will know how it will turn out. But if a person proclaiming to be saved and he gets hit by a car the next day and the Pastor (with the gift) knows he ain't saved .... I mean he has to tell him. Oh no I'm not justifying myself at all. :amen
Drew
Member
- Jan 24, 2005
- 14,249
- 81
Paul tells us the answer to this question, not least in Romans. Here in Romans 2, we get this treatment of the matter, often overlooked (read: swept under the rug) by Christians:kton16 said:
God "will give to each person according to what he has done."[a] 7To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life. 8But for those who are self-seeking and who reject the truth and follow evil, there will be wrath and anger. 9There will be trouble and distress for every human being who does evil: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile; 10but glory, honor and peace for everyone who does good: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile. 11For God does not show favoritism. 12All who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and all who sin under the law will be judged by the law. 13For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God's sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous
This text has Paul effectively declaring that salvation is according to good works.
And yes, he means what he says.
But, as is often the case with Paul, you need to look at the whole story. So let's skip ahead to Romans 10 and this famous text:
Moses describes in this way the righteousness that is by the law: "The man who does these things will live by them."[a] 6But the righteousness that is by faith says: "Do not say in your heart, 'Who will ascend into heaven?'" (that is, to bring Christ down) 7"or 'Who will descend into the deep?'[c]" (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead). 8But what does it say? "The word is near you; it is in your mouth and in your heart,"[d] that is, the word of faith we are proclaiming: 9That if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.
Here we get the view that is not ignored (unlike the Romans 2 stuff) - salvation "by faith".
The correct way to see this is to believe both things Paul has written and integrate them as follows: There is indeed a coming judgement at which salvation will be awarded according to the content of our lives - our "good works". And yet, wonderfully, we know in the present what that verdict will be - those who "confess Jesus and believe Him as Lord" will most assuredly pass the good works test of Romans 2.
What kind of sense is Paul talking here? He is talking Spirit sense - the person who has faith in Christ is given the Spirit and the Spirit ensures that the person will indeed "persist in doing good".
So can a person with decades of failure to walk in the light be saved? I don't think that Paul believes so.
Watch what people do with Romans 2 - you will see all kinds of unworkable strategies to sweep it under the rug. Two common onese are these:
1. Declare that believers are not even at the Romans 2 judgement;
2. Argue that Paul is describing a hypothetical and unachievable path to salvation.
lovely
Member
- Apr 20, 2005
- 3,012
- 0
I know I am saved, because I have made a confession with my mouth, and have a belief unto righteousness in my heart.
Others can know I am saved by the love God in me toward others, and by the fruits and works of Christ in my life that bring glory and honor to God.
The Lord bless.
Others can know I am saved by the love God in me toward others, and by the fruits and works of Christ in my life that bring glory and honor to God.
The Lord bless.
epistemaniac
Member
- Apr 9, 2009
- 81
- 0
yes, salvation is by works, by the works of Christ..... by virtue of the merits of His perfect life applied to my account, by virtue of His atoning death bearing my iniquities on the cursed tree, and by His constant intercession before the Father for all of those who are His.... these are the works that save....
Hebrews 1:3 (ESV) He is the radiance of the glory of God and the exact imprint of his nature, and he upholds the universe by the word of his power. After making purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high,
Romans 3:20 (ESV) 20 For by works of the law no human being will be justified in his sight, since through the law comes knowledge of sin.
Romans 4:2-6 (ESV) 2 For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God. 3 For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness.†4 Now to the one who works, his wages are not counted as a gift but as his due. 5 And to the one who does not work but believes in him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted as righteousness, 6 just as David also speaks of the blessing of the one to whom God counts righteousness apart from works"
Galatians 2:16 (ESV) yet we know that a person is not justified by works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ, so we also have believed in Christ Jesus, in order to be justified by faith in Christ and not by works of the law, because by works of the law no one will be justified."
Galatians 3:10-14 (ESV) 10 For all who rely on works of the law are under a curse; for it is written, “Cursed be everyone who does not abide by all things written in the Book of the Law, and do them.†11 Now it is evident that no one is justified before God by the law, for “The righteous shall live by faith.†12 But the law is not of faith, rather “The one who does them shall live by them.†13 Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for usâ€â€for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who is hanged on a treeâ€Â 14 so that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles, so that we might receive the promised Spirit through faith."
John 17:9 (ESV) I am praying for them. I am not praying for the world but for those whom you have given me, for they are yours.
good works will always necessarily accompany true salvation, but these good works are the fruit of salvation, not the root.....
in any case salvation is not necessarily found by naval gazing, yes there is a subjective element to our apprehension of this salvation, but salvation is outside of us, it is an objective event that happened in time and space, I looked to Jesus to save me.... and He did.
Rock of Ages
Rock of Ages, cleft for me,
Let me hide myself in Thee.
Let the water and the blood,
From Thy wounded side which flowed,
Be of sin the double cure,
Save from wrath and make me pure.
Not the labor of my hands
Can fulfill the law’s demands;
Could my zeal no respite know,
Could my tears forever flow,
All for sin could not atone;
Thou must save, and Thou alone.
Nothing in my hand I bring,
Simply to the cross I cling;
Naked, come to thee for dress;
Helpless, look to Thee for grace;
Foul, I to the fountain fly;
Wash me, Savior, or I die.
Foul, I to the fountain fly;
Wash me, Savior, or I die.
While I draw this fleeting breath,
When my eyes shall close in death,
When I soar to worlds unknown,
See Thee on Thy judgment throne,
Rock of Ages, cleft for me,
Let me hide myself in Thee.
Rock of Ages, cleft for me,
Let me hide myself in Thee.
Let me hide myself in Thee.
-------- Augustus Toplady
blessings,
ken
Hebrews 1:3 (ESV) He is the radiance of the glory of God and the exact imprint of his nature, and he upholds the universe by the word of his power. After making purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high,
Romans 3:20 (ESV) 20 For by works of the law no human being will be justified in his sight, since through the law comes knowledge of sin.
Romans 4:2-6 (ESV) 2 For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God. 3 For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness.†4 Now to the one who works, his wages are not counted as a gift but as his due. 5 And to the one who does not work but believes in him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted as righteousness, 6 just as David also speaks of the blessing of the one to whom God counts righteousness apart from works"
Galatians 2:16 (ESV) yet we know that a person is not justified by works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ, so we also have believed in Christ Jesus, in order to be justified by faith in Christ and not by works of the law, because by works of the law no one will be justified."
Galatians 3:10-14 (ESV) 10 For all who rely on works of the law are under a curse; for it is written, “Cursed be everyone who does not abide by all things written in the Book of the Law, and do them.†11 Now it is evident that no one is justified before God by the law, for “The righteous shall live by faith.†12 But the law is not of faith, rather “The one who does them shall live by them.†13 Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for usâ€â€for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who is hanged on a treeâ€Â 14 so that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles, so that we might receive the promised Spirit through faith."
John 17:9 (ESV) I am praying for them. I am not praying for the world but for those whom you have given me, for they are yours.
good works will always necessarily accompany true salvation, but these good works are the fruit of salvation, not the root.....
in any case salvation is not necessarily found by naval gazing, yes there is a subjective element to our apprehension of this salvation, but salvation is outside of us, it is an objective event that happened in time and space, I looked to Jesus to save me.... and He did.
Rock of Ages
Rock of Ages, cleft for me,
Let me hide myself in Thee.
Let the water and the blood,
From Thy wounded side which flowed,
Be of sin the double cure,
Save from wrath and make me pure.
Not the labor of my hands
Can fulfill the law’s demands;
Could my zeal no respite know,
Could my tears forever flow,
All for sin could not atone;
Thou must save, and Thou alone.
Nothing in my hand I bring,
Simply to the cross I cling;
Naked, come to thee for dress;
Helpless, look to Thee for grace;
Foul, I to the fountain fly;
Wash me, Savior, or I die.
Foul, I to the fountain fly;
Wash me, Savior, or I die.
While I draw this fleeting breath,
When my eyes shall close in death,
When I soar to worlds unknown,
See Thee on Thy judgment throne,
Rock of Ages, cleft for me,
Let me hide myself in Thee.
Rock of Ages, cleft for me,
Let me hide myself in Thee.
Let me hide myself in Thee.
-------- Augustus Toplady
blessings,
ken
Drew wrote:
Drew,
Greetings. I have a question: suppose that a man makes the good confession, and is filled with the Holy Spirit to do good words and then in the very next instant dies of a heart attack? He has not had time nor opportunity to do a single good work. To make it more difficult this man has decades of failure on his record. Can such a man be saved?
I agree that our works are judged and we get a reward if they are deemed good. But is this the basis of salvation or merely the amount of our propective reward ?
take care
Drew,
Greetings. I have a question: suppose that a man makes the good confession, and is filled with the Holy Spirit to do good words and then in the very next instant dies of a heart attack? He has not had time nor opportunity to do a single good work. To make it more difficult this man has decades of failure on his record. Can such a man be saved?
I agree that our works are judged and we get a reward if they are deemed good. But is this the basis of salvation or merely the amount of our propective reward ?
take care