How do You Know You are Saved

[one_lost_coin]

So when do I share in His resurrection unto eternal life?

When you join yourself to His life, death, and ressurection. In Baptism which encompasses faith, repentence, forgiveness, Catechesis/learning the faith...much more. We stay joined to Him as long as we wish we can't be forced into loving Him and remaining in His love. It is His free gift to us a gift which we respond in the complete giving or ourselves.

 

[one_lost_coin]

Baptismal regeneration is clearly not taught in the Bible. The opposite is true.

It is by grace you are saved, through faith, and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God, not of works, that no man can boast. Ephesians 2:8-9

Baptism is a work.

And how might I ask, can a baby choose to be born again?

[/quote][/quote]

Baptism is a work. It is God's work we are the reciepients of His working through baptism (Grace). We recieve His Grace through Baptism. Baptism is an act of Faith.

Infant baptism is also an act of Faith a communal act of faith where the parents who God has given the child to be raised commit the child to God for it is God's desire that the little children should not be kept from Him. Baptism among other things releases all from original sin and children also have the need to be freed from original sin. Through infant baptism children become the Children of God.

What more proof could be provided that it is purely God's Grace through which we recieve baptism and not a work of our own than in an infant being baptised, than in the life of one who can only recieve God's Grace.

It should be noted how confirmation and baptism are so inseperably linked. In Jesus baptism God confirms Him by saying "This is my son with whom I am well pleased." So also does he do with the child when that child becomes of an age that they of confirm the baptism they recieved when God confirms them by saying "This is my son with whom I am well pleased."

 

[lovely]

Catholic Christian,

Thanks for clarifying what you mean, and for the link. I found that I agreed with some parts, and disagreed with other parts. I am not of the Word of Faith denomination, which seemed to be who they were addressing mostly...but I understand that protestants need to be addressed as a group, and that my be difficult. :-D Though, I do find that Catholics can vary some as well.

Anyway, my first post explains what I have learned so far, and what I believe at this point. I don't want to restate the whole thing. I think we disagree for the most part, though. I believe to be born again one needs to be born of the water, and of the Spirit according to John 3. I believe that working out our salvation with fear and trembling will not save in the end, but rather it is what we will do because we are sincerely saved, and are given over to the process. We have a salvation to work out according to our sincere belief and knowledge that God will do what He says...bringing about loving obedience in our lives that is restful, and also a holy fear that forbids us from mocking God. God knows the end from the beginning...those who will bear fruit and those who will be cut out.

The Lord bless you, and thank you for taking the time to address my post.

 

[Catholic Crusader]

Baptism is a work.

James 2:24 - "You see that a person is justified by what he does and not by faith alone."

Protestant early Church historian J. N. D. Kelly wrote: "From the beginning baptism was the
universally accepted rite of admission to the Church. . . . As regards its significance, it was always held to convey the remission of sins . . . we descend into the water ‘dead’ and come out again ‘alive’; we receive a white robe which symbolizes the Spirit . . .the Spirit is God himself dwelling in the believer, and the resulting life is a re-creation. Prior to baptism . . . our heart was the abode of demons . . . [but] baptism supplies us with the weapons for our spiritual warfare" (Early Christian Doctrines, 193–4).

 

[Catholic Crusader]

.....Baptismal regeneration is clearly not taught in the Bible....

You mean in your interpretation of the Bible.

Water baptism is the way that we are born again and receive new lifeâ€â€a fact that is supported in these (and other) Scriptures: Rom. 6:3–4; Col. 2:12–13; Titus 3:5.

"Baptism . . . now saves you, not as a removal of dirt from the body, but as an appeal to God for a clear conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ" (1 Pet. 3:21; also Acts 2:38, 22:16).

 

[Catholic Crusader]

...OK, so the old man dies. Dead. Dead with Christ.

I'm born again. How can I be born again if the old man is not dead?....

When you were born of the flesh, you still had to grow up, did you not? And when you are born of the Spirit, the same holds true.

When you were born of the flesh, you could have still killed yourself, could you not? And when you are born of the Spirit, the same holds true (with the exception that, when you kill yourself in the Spirit [i.e. Mortal Sin], you can always repent and have life restored unto you by the mercy of God.

 

[Veritas]

Its simple, really. Jesus chose apostles, made Peter the leader, and gave them authorities that all the other disciples did not have. Later, in Acts, the hierarchy develops further. The apostles appoint Deacons (greek - diakonos ), Priests (greek - presbyteros ), and Bishops (greek - episkopos), and each have different duties.

A good read is Eusebius of Caesarea's "Historia Ecclesiastica" (Church History) written BEFORE the year 325 AD. In it, he traces not only the successors of Peter (the bishops of Rome) but also the successors of the other apostles.

I'm reading this right now. Very good read. Its nice to see continuity of the Christian faith back then. As I understood it, this was one way to combat gnosticism at the time - to trace people back to those who were closest to Christ.

I don't agree that Peter had authority others didn't but I think its a good idea to listen to what the apostles taught and to those whom the apostles taught.

...ok... so I got a bit sidtracked from the topic, but I had to chime in because I'm reading that.
I guess I'm just trusting in God that He saved me. That's how I know. I would think its an ongoing thing as well, but I trust he will sustain my salvation too.

 

[Rick W]

I'd agree one matures in Christ due to a desire to know Him more.
But killing oneself through mortal sin while alive in Christ?
How many times can I be born again? And if I'm dead again how then can I choose to live again?
How do I know when I've done enough for salvation? How do I know if I'm not doing enough? How can I rejoice if there's always the possibility that I can fail to come to salvation after being born again?
Without confidence of salvation I'm in doubt that I may miss the fulfillment of His promises.

If it's me that is responsible to securing salvation then indeed I can err. But if God secures one's salvation then one is eternally secure. The question then becomes who decided that one becomes a new creature? If I decide that I should be a new man then indeed I can fail. But if God decides one is to be a new man then His will cannot be denied.

In this we see the two hottest debates on this forum.
1) Can one lose his/her salvation?
2) Does one have freewill?

I can assure you it was not my intent to be born again.

I can also assure you there are those who sought God who have genuinely found Him. In this case one can argue where did the desire come from to seek Him in the first place?

I can also assure you there are those who deceive themselves into thinking they are indeed a new creature and by all outward appearances seem to be so.


I praise God daily for my salvation, not for the possibility.
Do I persevere? Do I need admonishment to do so? You bet. But not for all or nothing as some would have us believe but for the quality of my walk with Christ, not whether I will continue or not. In this is the importance of fellowship and worship together as a congregation to edify and support one another that the maximum amount of fruit may be produced.

 

[Catholic Crusader]

I'd agree one matures in Christ due to a desire to know Him more.
But killing oneself through mortal sin while alive in Christ?
How many times can I be born again?....

I wouldn't phrase it like that. I would rather say that you have life restored to you. Perhaps the story of Lazerus could apply.

... And if I'm dead again how then can I choose to live again?...

The same way you did the first time. :-D

...How do I know when I've done enough for salvation? How do I know if I'm not doing enough?...

Its effort that matters. Its not a mathematical equation: Its just a matter of being good and doing good.

...In this we see the two hottest debates on this forum.
1) Can one lose his/her salvation?
2) Does one have freewill?

I was going to say the same thing.

...I can assure you it was not my intent to be born again....

Really? Then what WAS your intent when you accepted Christ?

...I praise God daily for my salvation, not for the possibility....

Amen. But remember: We can count on God to keep His word, but we can't always count on ourselves to do the same: "See, then, the kindness and severity of God: severity toward those who fell, but God's kindness to you, provided you remain in his kindness, otherwise you too will be cut off" (Rom. 11:22-23; Matt. 18:21-35, 1 Cor. 15:1-2, 2 Pet. 2:20-21).

 

[Rick W]

Its effort that matters. Its not a mathematical equation: Its just a matter of being good and doing good.

I hope it works out for you. I really do.

 

[Catholic Crusader]

Its effort that matters. Its not a mathematical equation: Its just a matter of being good and doing good.

I hope it works out for you. I really do.

Actually, I see it as trusting God that He will reward me as He promised. I have earned nothing, but I will do what God asks of me, knowing that He will reward me according to His word. And if I slip and fall, I know He will forgive me when I repent so I can continue on my journey

 

[Rick W]

...I can assure you it was not my intent to be born again....

Really? Then what WAS your intent when you accepted Christ?

lol
I've known a couple fellows who absolutely tried to deny God's call. One lasted 2 weeks, the other took a little longer. The latter became the pastor of a thriving Christian church in the Salt Lake Valley. For them there was no choice though they struggled hard against Him.
I was weak. I surrendered without a fight. :-D

 

[Catholic Crusader]

...I can assure you it was not my intent to be born again....

Really? Then what WAS your intent when you accepted Christ?

lol
I've known a couple fellows who absolutely tried to deny God's call. One lasted 2 weeks, the other took a little longer. The latter became the pastor of a thriving Christian church in the Salt Lake Valley. For them there was no choice though they struggled hard against Him.
I was weak. I surrendered without a fight. :-D

Yes, God does call. But remember: God calls ALL men to Him, but only those who respond to His call are the ones who accept Him. Do not sell yourself short: You DID play a part in your salvation. (Dare I say that the response was a "work".. ..something you "did"?) :D

 

[Rick W]

You need to come to grips with the fact that it wasn't my choice.
I did. :wink:

I suppose though that many feel it must somehow fit a prescribed method or all bets are off. Others have said I wasn't really saved or even born again because I wasn't yet baptized. I've even been told by one fellow it was due to something I ate that made me feel bad inside. Must have been that can of tuna and crackers I had. As long as it doesn't fit others' perception of how things are to be done then it really didn't happen or if it did it wasn't as I said it was because it just doesn't work that way.

Oh well. During the past years I've learned to accept God's methods no matter how strange they may seem. I can't walk in your shoes and you can't walk in mine. Yet there's always the strong possibility that both you and I are heading in the same direction. I carry some extra baggage and so do you. Hopefully that useless baggage will be abandoned sooner rather than later. Would make the journey a bit more comfortable though we may not think so at the time. But at the end of the day it'll get chucked anyway no matter how far we carried it.
May need to learn to travel light. :-D

 

[Vic C.]

Its effort that matters. Its not a mathematical equation: Its just a matter of being good and doing good.

I hope it works out for you. I really do.

Ouch! 8-) So do I. Good is subjective in a sense; in Biblespeak, none are good. Jesus said it, Paul said it. Isaiah said it...etc.

Catholic Crusader wrote:
[quote:11f03]Potluck wrote:...I can assure you it was not my intent to be born again....

Really? Then what WAS your intent when you accepted Christ?[/quote:11f03]

Potluck wrote:
lol
I've known a couple fellows who absolutely tried to deny God's call. One lasted 2 weeks, the other took a little longer. The latter became the pastor of a thriving Christian church in the Salt Lake Valley. For them there was no choice though they struggled hard against Him.
I was weak. I surrendered without a fight.

Unfortunately, I do know two who have rejected... so far. Unfortunately again, I don't see them as ever heeding to the call, though I still pray they do.

Me? In retrospect, I see it took about 10 years until I responded, but when it did happen, it happened as though I was struck by lightening. I didn't even see it coming. It happened as I was on my knees, in a pew, at a friend's funeral service, in a... OK, sit down folks...

In a Catholic church! :-D Seriously, I will remember the moment for the rest of my existence on this good earth. My body quivered for the rest of the day. My mind so SO confused AND at peace at the same time. It's almost an unexplainable experience.

Rick, as you know, those who have never had that "born again" experience may not know how that feels. Maybe it's not God's will for all to experience that type of born from above experience. I don't know. But I'm telling you folks, those who do have that experience WILL tell you they had NO intentions of choosing to be saved when they woke up that morning. You don't choose to be saved, that's why we who believe we are saved know we will persevere.

John 6:37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
John 6:38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.
John 6:39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
John 6:40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

 

[Vic C.]

May need to learn to travel light.

Rick, my brother in Christ... it's already been done for us!

Mat 11:29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.
Mat 11:30 For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.

 

[Catholic Crusader]

....Good is subjective in a sense; in Biblespeak, none are good. Jesus said it, Paul said it. Isaiah said it...etc....

Well, I think you know what I meant. Adolf Hitler was bad: Mother Theresa was good. Have you ever told your kid he was a "good boy"? You know what I mean by good. :-?

....those who have never had that "born again" experience may not know how that feels.....

I don't trust feelings myself. People of every religion have "experiences": They are subjective, not objective, just as feelings are. Thats why I take hold of the sacraments: I can see them, feel them, and taste them, whether I'm feeling good, or bad that day.

(I'm not saying your experience was not real, mind you: Thats not my place to say.)

 

[Rick W]

May need to learn to travel light.

Rick, my brother in Christ... it's already been done for us!

Mat 11:29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.
Mat 11:30 For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.

:smt023

 

[Rick W]

CC,
It's more than a feeling. It gets me through the day good or bad. :wink:

 

[Catholic Crusader]

CC,
It's more than a feeling. It gets me through the day good or bad. :wink:

I don't disbelieve you. But a Buddhist monk may well make the same claim, and there is nothing objective for me to measure it.