How do You Know You are Saved

[mutzrein]

CC,
It's more than a feeling. It gets me through the day good or bad. :wink:

I don't disbelieve you. But a Buddhist monk may well make the same claim, and there is nothing objective for me to measure it.

Measure this:

The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit.

 

[Catholic Crusader]

CC,
It's more than a feeling. It gets me through the day good or bad. :wink:

I don't disbelieve you. But a Buddhist monk may well make the same claim, and there is nothing objective for me to measure it.

Measure this:

The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit.

In my opinion, to precede a scripture quote with a sarcastic remark, and then to use the quote as some sort of bludgeon, is un-Christian and un-Christ-like.

 

[Rick W]

CC,
It's more than a feeling. It gets me through the day good or bad. :wink:

I don't disbelieve you. But a Buddhist monk may well make the same claim, and there is nothing objective for me to measure it.

lol

A Buddist monk doesn't profess with his mouth that Jesus is Lord or perservere in His name.

 

[Catholic Crusader]

CC,
It's more than a feeling. It gets me through the day good or bad. :wink:

I don't disbelieve you. But a Buddhist monk may well make the same claim, and there is nothing objective for me to measure it.

lol
A Buddist monk doesn't profess with his mouth that Jesus is Lord or perservere in His name.

Well, as I said, I don't disbelieve you. I am merely saying that this "experience" is subjective and not objective. Im sure there are those who have professed "that Jesus is Lord", and have still believed they had certain experiences that were actually no more than the result of an active imagination (or maybe fasting just a leeeeetle too long).

Again, this is nothing personal, and I'm not saying you are wrong. I could never know that, and I wouldnt try to guess. I am merely trying make a point that we have nothing besides your word that this experience was real, because, again, these things are subjective rather than objective. However, when I was baptised, everyone saw it, and I have God's Word that this is how one is born again.

 

[Rick W]

:smt102
I've known people to say Paul got to much sun on the way to Damascus or no more than the result of an active imagination.
:wink:

 

[Vic C.]

CC, I'm not taking it personal at all. I can't take it personal, it wasn't my "person" causing the transformation. ;-) But I know where you are coming from. I take your view when I hear of those who suddenly received the gift of tongues. Since I have never experienced it myself, I have no point of reference.

I will say this; I had a Romans 12:2 experience in an instant. Everything I believed about things like abortion, homosexuality and most other morals I thought relative were reversed 180*. I was brought to a saving knowledge that just did not penetrate my thick skull no matter how many times I heard it, until it was laid upon me by the Spirit of God. Like Rick said, it was more than a feeling (hmm, good name for a song ;-) ). It's sort of like having the bandages ripped from my eyes after having surgery. It was overwhelming. The memory of that moment is as vivid now as the day it happened. I could go on and on... :angel:

I doubt my experience as much as I doubt Paul's, that is, I don't doubt his experience at all.

John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

 

[Catholic Crusader]

CC, I'm not taking it personal at all. I can't take it personal, it wasn't my "person" causing the transformation. ;-) But I know where you are coming from. I take your view when I hear of those who suddenly received the gift of tongues. Since I have never experienced it myself, I have no point of reference.....

Fair enough. But would you also say that some people who are speaking in tounges are actually doing nothing more than babbling and convincing themselves thast they are speaking in tounges? And how would you know if it was real or not if you were standing next to them? You would not know: You would only have their word on it. Hence my point.

 

[mutzrein]

So CC, what is your measure?

 

[MarkT]

How did Noah know he was saved? When the waters started to rise and he was in the ark; then he knew he was saved. It's the same thing. When we see evil increasing, and everyone else going along like nothing is wrong. When we see people their hearts trained in greed, irrational behaviour, wrong for right, hatred for God; when we see the terrorists rightly condemning the world; this is the ultimate, when even the followers of the false prophet condemn the sons of the kingdom, and rightly, then you know you are saved. If you feel revulsion at just about everything in this world, and your only hope is God, then you know you are saved.

 

[Rick W]

It's sort of like having the bandages ripped from my eyes after having surgery.

How did Noah know he was saved? When the waters started to rise and he was in the ark; then he knew he was saved. It's the same thing. When we see evil increasing, and everyone else going along like nothing is wrong. When we see people their hearts trained in greed, irrational behaviour, wrong for right, hatred for God; when we see the terrorists rightly condemning the world; this is the ultimate, when even the followers of the false prophet condemn the sons of the kingdom, and rightly, then you know you are saved. If you feel revulsion at just about everything in this world, and your only hope is God, then you know you are saved.

Mat 13:15 For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.
Mat 13:16 But blessed are your eyes, for they see: and your ears, for they hear.

Hence my point.

Well CC,
The point is mote anyway. My salvation doesn't hinge on your judgment call or any other man for that matter. I don't mean to be rude or anything by that and I've given thought as to how else to put it in a more, shall we say, a more diplomatic manner but the words escape me.
Each one of us has a testimony, an experience meant for each and only for each. No man can possibly judge whether another's divine experience is true or not. It's not for them to do. We can relate the event, we can use it for a witness but when it really comes right down to it it's for the other to experience his or her own transformation in the way God chooses to reach out to them.

1Co 2:11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.

 

[Catholic Crusader]

How did Noah know he was saved? When the waters started to rise and he was in the ark; then he knew he was saved.....

Please quote a verse whare Noah says "I'm saved, and I know it".

 

[Catholic Crusader]

Well CC,
The point is mote anyway. My salvation doesn't hinge on your judgment call....

I never judged you!
TWICE I specifically said "I don't disbelieve you".

And this all doesnt matter any way, because the title of this thread is a non sequitor: Salvation is an ongoing process, not a one time event, so no one is fully saved until they get to heaven.

 

[one_lost_coin]

I wonder after reading many of the above post if we have lost sight of the word "Hope" and maybe with the meaning of that virtue recalled to our minds maybe again review the thoughts being articulated in its light.

I offer this link from "Spe Salvi" it is a Papal Encyclical that transcends denominations all my protestant friends who have read it appreciated it very much and have expressed as much. I think it articulates very well and concisely what we are all trying to say here.

http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/bened ... vi_en.html

 

[KenEOTE]

Hmm well What exactly is it I am being saved from? AM I saved from Hell? I have not died yet so I don't know. Am I saved from the cross yes? Is salvation a one time event or a process? Am I perfect no, am I being perfected yes? Do I trust that Christ will draw me to heaven when I die ? I do trust him, but as I said I am still alive so it has not happened. What is the definition of being "saved"? I can not know if you are or aren't I can trust that you are following Christ if you say you are, but then if you actions show me otherwise I am left to assume. Is that wrong of me to assume? Maybe, but if you have a relationship with Christ there should be fruit, what fruit are you showing? What changes has the Holy Spirit made in your life? If none, then what is your evidence that you are in the process of being saved?

 

[Catholic Crusader]

Hmm well What exactly is it I am being saved from? AM I saved from Hell? I have not died yet so I don't know. Am I saved from the cross yes? Is salvation a one time event or a process? Am I perfect no, am I being perfected yes? Do I trust that Christ will draw me to heaven when I die ? I do trust him, but as I said I am still alive so it has not happened. What is the definition of being "saved"? I can not know if you are or aren't I can trust that you are following Christ if you say you are, but then if you actions show me otherwise I am left to assume. Is that wrong of me to assume? Maybe, but if you have a relationship with Christ there should be fruit, what fruit are you showing? What changes has the Holy Spirit made in your life? If none, then what is your evidence that you are in the process of being saved?

Thats a pretty darn good post.

I think I would just add that sometimes fruits aren't what we expect them to be. Like, if you saw two newleyweds in a restaurant, gazing in each others' eyes, glowing, sitting close, you may say, "Gee, they sure are in love." Behind them, you may see an old couple not talking much, not too excited, and may conclude that they are not as passionate about each other as the newleyweds are. But that could be a wrong assumption, because the older couple are so close to each other and have grown so far together that their silences can speak volumes more than the gushy words from the youngsters can.

I guess I'm just saying, it is hard for us to really see for sure the fruits that someone else may be bearing.

 

[sheshisown]

Hello fellows in Christ,

I would like to add a few pennies worth regarding whether we may see the everlasting fruit of God in one another, or not. :D

Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them. Matthew 7:20 NKJ
This was a stren warning given to us so we would not be decieved by false prophets/teachers. We guard ourselves against false prophets by taking heed to their fruits. This means paying attention to many aspects of their life and ministry.
We ought to ask ourselves . . .

*Do they show righteousness, humility and faithfulness in the way they live?
*Is the content of their teaching true fruit from God’s Word, or is it man-centered, appealing to ears that want to be tickled?
*What is the effect of their teaching? Are people growing in Jesus or merely being entertained, and eventually falling away?

Even so, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit: Matthew 7:17 NKJThis fruit is the inevitable result of who we are. Eventually ~ though it may take a time for the harvest to come ~ the good or bad fruit is evident, revealing what sort of "tree" we are.

In the following verses 21-23 Jesus challenges every disciple to take heed to his own salvation.

We certainly can see fruit ~ by which we are commanded to "test" every spirit. If it were as difficult as some say, why would Jesus command it of every disciple? I am no intellectual, nor am I very insightive, or able to discern spirits. But even I can watch for fruit.

BTW ~ The most essential fruit I need to be "testing" is my own. :-D bonnie

 

[brakelite2]

Joh 17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
1Jo 2:3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.

Regards Brakelite2

 

[Catholic Crusader]

Joh 17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
1Jo 2:3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.

Regards Brakelite2

Did you eead the "if" part? "...if we keep his commandments". Therefore your salvation is conditional upon what you do. This is why Paul says: "See, then, the kindness and severity of God: severity toward those who fell, but God's kindness to you, provided you remain in his kindness, otherwise you too will be cut off" (Rom. 11:22-23; Matt. 18:21-35, 1 Cor. 15:1-2, 2 Pet. 2:20-21).

 

[brakelite2]

Joh 17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
1Jo 2:3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.

Regards Brakelite2

Did you eead the "if" part? "...if we keep his commandments". Therefore your salvation is conditional upon what you do. This is why Paul says: "See, then, the kindness and severity of God: severity toward those who fell, but God's kindness to you, provided you remain in his kindness, otherwise you too will be cut off" (Rom. 11:22-23; Matt. 18:21-35, 1 Cor. 15:1-2, 2 Pet. 2:20-21).

Yep, I agree. Faith without works is dead. If God hasn't made those changes in us which lead to obedience to His commandments, (for we are unable to obey without Him), then we are neither born again nor are we new creatures. To enter heaven we must be made new and conformed into the image of Christ. His life was a life of submission and obedience to His Father's will. So also must ours be.

 

[sheshisown]

Brakelite said;
Yep, I agree. Faith without works is dead. If God hasn't made those changes in us which lead to obedience to His commandments, (for we are unable to obey without Him), then we are neither born again nor are we new creatures. To enter heaven we must be made new and conformed into the image of Christ. His life was a life of submission and obedience to His Father's will. So also must ours be.

Well said, amen. 8-)