How does a person know if they are one of the elect ?

[Grubal Muruch]

I personally believe that, if a person receives Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior, then that person is of God's elect... The Jews were the "chosen" people of God and the Jews/Gentiles who receive Christ and are "born-again" are the elect of God.

 

[Danus]

You are pretty much correct in your understanding.

Please understand that Unconditional Election is a theological term of understanding a biblical concept. It's not a bunch of people saying they are chosen by God. It's less about how one knows they are elect and more about how God works.

If you have accepted Christ as your savior, you'er a Christian, you have this relationship with God then you are essentially elect. ;)

 

[reba]

Not in any way disagreeing with Danus..


Something that has struck me kinda down this line ... Looking back over my life the Mighty hand of God is so clearly there! The times and accounts of His presence from silly to life saving.... From crying out to God for calm in the midst of a horrid family problem to find the calm in the form of a kitten stuck in the tree out the window...To watching the death glaze leave Daddy's eyes when he went home....
The time we did not go to KFC folks were shot during a robbery. That is just 3
He never leaves us.

 

[Mike]

Well, this is new and unique! Someone finally started a thread about Calvinism! ;)

Me thinks we're hitting out quota and may need to start some combining of threads.

 

[reba]

How do you know or why do you believe this is about Calvin? Maybe it is about Paul or Pete



2Ti 2:10 Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.


Col 3:12 Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering;

1Pe 1:1 Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to the strangers scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia,
1Pe 1:2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

 

[Danus]

Well, this is new and unique! Someone finally started a thread about Calvinism! ;)

Me thinks we're hitting out quota and may need to start some combining of threads.

I know, right? It's so refreshing to be finally talking about Calvin's Reformed theology. Who knows where this will lead. :twopistols:fight:verysad

 

[reba]

O NO the to be feared Smileys

 

[Christ_empowered]

I was raised Presbyterian. I was told that Doctrine of the Elect is first of all True--its Biblical--and secondly a source of comfort. Look over your life. Can you see God's hand at work, like reba and any other Christian can? Do you regret your sins and ask forgiveness? Do you believe that God saved you? Do you believe that God is saving you and will save you in the future?

Odds are, most Christians who try to "walk the walk" are Elect. In the Westminster Confession, the importance of self-examination and reflection are pointed out. Calvin believed in "false conversions." My guess is that "false conversions" were more common in the past, back when being Christian=respectable. These days, especially in post-modern, post-Industrial, post-Christian societies, there's not much "push" to conversion. We have any number of "truths" from which to choose, and there's not a whole lot of pressure to choose Christianity anymore.

Just turn to God. He chose you, He will stick with you, and He has saved, is saving, and will save you. Don't worry about being Elect; just work out your salvation with fear and trembling.

 

[Danus]

I was raised Presbyterian. I was told that Doctrine of the Elect is first of all True--its Biblical--and secondly a source of comfort. Look over your life. Can you see God's hand at work, like reba and any other Christian can? Do you regret your sins and ask forgiveness? Do you believe that God saved you? Do you believe that God is saving you and will save you in the future?

Odds are, most Christians who try to "walk the walk" are Elect. In the Westminster Confession, the importance of self-examination and reflection are pointed out. Calvin believed in "false conversions." My guess is that "false conversions" were more common in the past, back when being Christian=respectable. These days, especially in post-modern, post-Industrial, post-Christian societies, there's not much "push" to conversion. We have any number of "truths" from which to choose, and there's not a whole lot of pressure to choose Christianity anymore.

Just turn to God. He chose you, He will stick with you, and He has saved, is saving, and will save you. Don't worry about being Elect; just work out your salvation with fear and trembling.

WOW! Excellent point.

I never really thought much about it, but your spot on I think. Surly there has not been a more freer time since Christianity was established in the western culture where people don't feel the pressure to "conform" to Christianity then right now.

I mean think about it. You have to be nuts to be a Christian today... You know what I mean. They hate us now more than ever. They....the world.

In Calvin's time you could be burned at the stake for heresy. Today we have comedians, otherwise known as professional fools, making a living telling jokes about us. Calvin himself would have lit the match under say....Bill Maher. Surly we have the purest of the elect among us today.

In this way I think it's better to be a Christian today. I mean ....it's more pure in some ways, and there is a more clear line between Christianity and the world, in many respects.

 

[Grubal Muruch]

WOW! Excellent point.

I never really thought much about it, but your spot on I think. Surly there has not been a more freer time since Christianity was established in the western culture where people don't feel the pressure to "conform" to Christianity then right now.

I mean think about it. You have to be nuts to be a Christian today... You know what I mean. They hate us now more than ever. They....the world.

In Calvin's time you could be burned at the stake for heresy. Today we have comedians, otherwise known as professional fools, making a living telling jokes about us. Calvin himself would have lit the match under say....Bill Maher. Surly we have the purest of the elect among us today.

In this way I think it's better to be a Christian today. I mean ....it's more pure in some ways, and there is a more clear line between Christianity and the world, in many respects.

With all due respect, to everyone, I haven't seen one clear cut answer offered up...As Christians we can see the hand of God during certain times of our life, that's true, but what is it that solidifies the truth to Calvinist believers? Is it a feeling,a hope,a religious hypothesis,church indoctrination or something else?

I don't agree with the teachings of J.Calvin nor do I hold on to the teachings of J. Arminius. On one side of the spectrum I accept Calvin's doctrine that relates to the idea that, one cannot lose their salvation. But I don't agree with his reason for that belief. Arminius, on the other hand believed, you could lose your salvation. So in the end analysis I cannot accept either view, although both have (a little truth) so far as I'm concerned. Calvinists and Armenians have fought back and forth for many hundreds of year's no doubt. And both will back up their positions with Scripture. Of course they'll more than likely run the Scripture through their "Pre-indoctrinated" filter first to see if the Scripture aligns with their particular belief system...

It's to bad Christians throughout church history, couldn't have kept the message pure (as Paul admonished) But now there are divisions, even among the most avid church goers...And probably always will be...

 

[Danus]

With all due respect, to everyone, I haven't seen one clear cut answer offered up...As Christians we can see the hand of God during certain times of our life, that's true, but what is it that solidifies the truth to Calvinist believers? Is it a feeling,a hope,a religious hypothesis,church indoctrination or something else?

I don't agree with the teachings of J.Calvin nor do I hold on to the teachings of J. Arminius. On one side of the spectrum I accept Calvin's doctrine that relates to the idea that, one cannot lose their salvation. But I don't agree with his reason for that belief. Arminius, on the other hand believed, you could lose your salvation. So in the end analysis I cannot accept either view, although both have (a little truth) so far as I'm concerned. Calvinists and Armenians have fought back and forth for many hundreds of year's no doubt. And both will back up their positions with Scripture. Of course they'll more than likely run the Scripture through their "Pre-indoctrinated" filter first to see if the Scripture aligns with their particular belief system...

It's to bad Christians throughout church history, couldn't have kept the message pure (as Paul admonished) But now there are divisions, even among the most avid church goers...And probably always will be...

I'm not sure how quoting my response to Christ_empowered has anything to do with your post, but I have to assume your asking me to address it.

The divisions you speak of are .......
1. Not new to the Christian faith and where prevalent during Paul's time.
2. Divisions based more on the understanding of believers, which very naturally, and in this case are non essential to the faith. Simply understandings or how God works, and the nature of salvation.

As for Calvinist, the term itself is flawed. There are people who hold to all of the 5 points of Calvin, and people who wrestle with a few things, or just one point. Never the less a better term would be reformist.

It's pointless for anyone to say they don't "believe" in the teachings, or understandings of a particular theologian, since it's not about belief....it's more about understanding. We should save our belief for God and the work of Jesus Christ, but we can talk about our understanding all day long. ;)

Personally I hold to both, but for different reasons. Calvin/reformed view in my understanding of salvation, and Arminianism in my understanding of redemption. I've met self proclaimed Armenians who seem quite "Calvanistic" in their theology, and vice versa.

The original post asked: How does a person know if they are one of the elect? Several people answered that, but you say no one gave a clear answer, yet I did not see where you gave an answer. What would be your clear cut answer? from what you said originally, you pretty much have Calvin down in this regard, but the question was directed to those who hold an understanding of the reformed theology of John Calvin, or who claim to. You mentioned you not hold to Calvin or Jacobus Arminius? So, how do you know you have not seen a clear answer? where do you fall in your theology?

I will answer your question.

.......As Christians we can see the hand of God during certain times of our life, that's true, but what is it that solidifies the truth to Calvinist believers? Is it a feeling,a hope,a religious hypothesis,church indoctrination or something else?

The Bible. The word of God as it relates to the teachings of Jesus Christ and the nature of God in conjunction to our personal relationship with him.

 

[stovebolts]

How does a person know if they are one of the elect ?


Hmm... How does one know. hmmmm.... good question!

Ephesians 2:10 For we are God’s handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.

Are you doing God's work? Are you in a relationship with Christ Jesus? Are you at least trying to do the Will of God? I mean, nobody is perfect, we all fail and we all make mistakes, but are you trying? Do you even care what God thinks about how you should be living your life, and are you even trying... do you even care?

When we Elect officials, such as Governors and Presidents, we put a certain expectation on them. We choose them for a purpose. I get a feeling that the church today seems the purpose of being God's Elect is all about them, and all about this destination we call Heaven and we get this certain high brow vision of what it means to be "God's Elect", and if anyone thinks that the purpose of being God's Elect is for the purpose of being in heavenly realms with Jesus, then I'd like to see those passages because to be God's Elect, is to be about the work of God... The work of reconciliation through Christ Jesus our savior.

Have you been persecuted because you do what the Bible says and the world tells you your wrong, or have you suffered because you did what the Bible said to do, and the world tells you to do it anther way and you refused to give in?... If you have, then welcome to the Family, your God's Elect.

 

[reba]

Trusting in what He says in His Word.

The same sorta question could be asked of the Aminien (sp)Army camp.

How do you know your saved? Well ya might quote John 3:16

by the same reasoning you could quote

Eph 1:4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
Eph 1:5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,


The Scriptures use the words, saved, elect, chosen, etc. Do we need to be stuck on which word?
I am saved because of what He did on the Cross nothing of myself

 

[Grubal Muruch]

In the end analysis, one teaching is wrong and one is right. (Reformed or free-will belief) How would each of you, who hold onto "reformed" belief, witness to an unbeliever? Would you tell them about the Grace of God? Would you tell them that "only" the elect can be saved or would you leave that part out? Because if you truly believe in that doctrine, it should be shared with the unbeliever. You'd be holding back truth (as you see it) to do otherwise.

Logically speaking, it couldn't hurt to tell an unbeliever about election. Because from the standpoint of Calvinistic teaching, the elect "will" become saved and there's nothing anyone can say or do that can affect that. Finally I would ask a question of those who hold onto reform views. And that is, do you believe that, since God predestined the elect, He also predestined everyone else to Hell, and if not what is the outcome of those who are not elect ?

 

[reba]

In the end analysis, one teaching is wrong and one is right. (Reformed or free-will belief) How would each of you, who hold onto "reformed" belief, witness to an unbeliever? Would you tell them about the Grace of God? Would you tell them that "only" the elect can be saved or would you leave that part out? Because if you truly believe in that doctrine, it should be shared with the unbeliever. You'd be holding back truth (as you see it) to do otherwise.

Logically speaking, it couldn't hurt to tell an unbeliever about election. Because from the standpoint of Calvinistic teaching, the elect "will" become saved and there's nothing anyone can say or do that can affect that. Finally I would ask a question of those who hold onto reform views. And that is, do you believe that, since God predestined the elect, He also predestined everyone else to Hell, and if not what is the outcome of those who are not elect ?

In the end analysis, one teaching is wrong and one is right. (Reformed or free-will belief)

I disagree. They are different but each is used by God, for a time place and peoples.

He told us (all believers) to go preach the gospel. (Real short version of the gospel) Christ died for our sins. So we go...

It is not my responsibility to open the ears of the hearer God does that It is again not my responsibility to convect the heart God does that. etc

Good ol Billy Graham always with the altar call not every one who does not know the Lord comes forward does that mean BG failed ... not in my book He did as told he shared the gospel the opening of the ears is God not Dr Graham.

The Bible has verses on election would you remove them from a new believers Bible? Of course not. It is God's Word.

And that is, do you believe that, since God predestined the elect, He also predestined everyone else to Hell, and if not what is the outcome of those who are not elect

Joh 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Do you find it difficult to grasp the Israelites being chosen of God and the Egyptions or others commended?

Please note my views are just that MY views please do not judge (for lack of abetter word) other posters here by my views...

 

[Grubal Muruch]

I disagree. They are different but each is used by God, for a time place and peoples.

Word.

The Bible says that God is not the author of confusion. Why would He use two "diametrically" opposed doctrines, in order to convey His Gospel of love to mankind ? Either man plays a part (faith wise) or man plays no part (predestination) You can't have it BOTH ways...God has ONLY one Gospel not two or three or more. One true Gospel...

 

[reba]

The Bible says that God is not the author of confusion. Why would He use two "diametrically" opposed doctrines, in order to convey His Gospel of love to mankind ? Either man plays a part (faith wise) or man plays no part (predestination) You can't have it BOTH ways...God has ONLY one Gospel not two or three or more. One true Gospel...

I dont agree they are so apposed but what part do we THINK we play. Often it is the simple verbiage. I agree there is one gospel. Paul did not preach the same exact words as Peter. Yet it is the same One True Gospel... God opens our ears in the way we hear. If you have children you understand they do not respond to the same words the same way. The Gospel is the same our hearing /understanding can be different.

I asked Jesus into my heart about 1951 i was 4/5 years old. What part did i truly play in that view of "roles" in salvation.

Where does our faith come from

Rom 12:2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.
Rom 12:3 For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.

Grubal Thanks for your part in making this a dialog and not a screaming match!

 

[reba]

Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.


Eph 1:4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
Eph 1:5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,


Both passages are the Word of God is one passage less or more than the other. We agree they are not. This is what i try to say in it is what we hear. I think they resonate differently between you and I.. One gospel one Jesus OUR Saviour!

 

[Grubal Muruch]

I dont agree they are so apposed but what part do we THINK we play. Often it is the simple verbiage. I agree there is one gospel. Paul did not preach the same exact words as Peter. Yet it is the same One True Gospel... God opens our ears in the way we hear. If you have children you understand they do not respond to the same words the same way. The Gospel is the same our hearing /understanding can be different.

I asked Jesus into my heart about 1951 i was 4/5 years old. What part did i truly play in that view of "roles" in salvation.

Where does our faith come from

Rom 12:2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.
Rom 12:3 For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.

Grubal Thanks for your part in making this a dialog and not a screaming match!

Your welcome. Your very civil as well, I commend you. Thanks for your kindness...

 

[Grubal Muruch]

Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.


Eph 1:4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
Eph 1:5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,


Both passages are the Word of God is one passage less or more than the other. We agree they are not. This is what i try to say in it is what we hear. I think they resonate differently between you and I.. One gospel one Jesus OUR Saviour!

I would call your attention to the woman (in the Bible) who reached to touch the mere garment of Christ, believing that action would heal her affliction. Jesus told her, it was HER faith that brought about the healing. Another example that impressed Jesus was, the Centurion who's servant was ill and needed healing, he had faith, and Jesus remarked that, He ha not seen SUCH faith in ALL of Israel. These were two very distinct occasions when "MANS FAITH" made a difference and also impressed the Son of God...