How Homosexuals Misinterpret Scripture

[Relic]

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Amen Solo, and Christian Soldier!


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As for Relic merely being 'frustrated' ...what has someone's sexuality got to do with her anyway ...?

Well then I can take that statement of yours and turn it right back on you... What has someone's sexuality got to do with you, Sputnikboy?


Sexuality just happens to be a teaching in the bible that is of great concern. And it is the duty of every Christian to reprove, rebuke, and exhort those who are living in sexual sin, such as fornication and perversion of sex.
It is the duty and obligation of all Christians to teach and preach what is deemed righteous in the eyes of God who made man and woman to leave their parents and cleave to each other (it is called Holy matrimony, which is meant for man and woman only, not some perverted idea of any aspect of it! ) God did not create men to be with men,nor did he create woman to be with woman. If you deny that truth, it is not my fault.

Doctors are supposed to find cures and healing, not promote abnormalities as being normalities!
Not to say people are born this way, but looking from a hypothetic perspective, I ask you this, If a person is born "genetically" "oriented" as you would say it is, and medically diagnosed or presumed to be disposed to being a pedophile, would you say that was nothing you could do but to let them be pedophiles, because they just can't help it? :o Or would you deny the truth in scripture again to appease your own sense of what is righteous or not?

You, Sputnikboy, condemn Christians for preaching and teaching scriptural truth, and by your doing so is just another means of perverting, misinterpreting scripture to meet your own desires of supporting those who claim, they can't help themselves.
They claim the lie given to them by the demon spirits about their own identity as being homosexual. And instead of believing the Holy Word of God, you choose to support that lie of the devil because they say it's genetics and they can't help it. That we just don't know what they are going through or how badly they feel for being homosexuals in a society that doesn't accept them. :-? Hog wash Sputnik! Hogwash! Cast that demon into the sea Sputnik! You are taking sides with the carnal by taking sympathy for the way they feel. The carnal minded man is not of God. It is the Holy spirit that transforms the carnal minded man. It is the Holy Spirit that takes away the sins of man and wipes their sins clean so as to GO AND SIN NO MORE. Get it? The will no longer have desire of the homosexual life! Get it? But what do you do? you take sides with the lie of the carnal man! And say we just don't know how much they suffer for being the way they are. Yea right! We all suffer for the way we are! Don't you see? We all have some sin to overcome! Just because it is labeled sin doesn't mean we are condemned for being tempted by it! Jesus came to show us how to OVERCOME ALL sins of the world. But what do you do? You take pity on the homosexual for being the way they are. Hogwash Sputnikboy! It's just Hogwash! I suffer to overcome certains sin also! do you think I should just say , oh well, I'm just that way, I can't help it. So I may as well give into it. And tell people to leave me alone. I'm this way and if you don't like it too bad. Well! Isn't that a smack in the face of the Holy Spirit of God! I refuse to give into those things that come to tempt me> Been there done that. Sputnik! Anyone who is born again will deny the sin and accept the Holy Spirit to come into their life and take over to wash that sin right out of their life! But what do you do? You take pity on them and tell them Oh, you poor person. I feel for you, you hurt so much for being a homosexual. Hog Wash Sputnik! We all hurt for being what we are in the carnal body! The Holy Spirit does not direct us to take pity for the sin of anyone! The Holy Spirit instructs us to wage war against all the whiles of the devil! Ephesians 6:11-20

From what I've read of your postings, I think you are still a student of Psychology, So I ask you this also, If someone came to you as a patient and told you they couldn't help it, they are 'genetically" "oriented" to being a pedophile, would you accept that lie too and be against those who say it too is a sin? If you do then you are not of God but of the devil's advocate! And if you take the secular world over the truth of the Holy Word of God then you are an apostate! Or, do you stand firm on Christian faith and teach them the Redeeming Holy Word of God through Christ Jesus living in and through them? Does your profession not allow you to merge your faith/beliefs with your practice? If so, maybe you should seek out practice with a Christian based organization. One that doesn't promote or take sides with the sins of the world, but knows that the teaching and healing powers of Christ Jesus never fail for those who accept and allow the Holy Spirit to work in and through them. God never forsakes those who accept Him and live by His Holiness, not the unholy ways of the carnal minded world.

The Holy Word of God clearly reveals what is sin (unholy) and what is Holy. If you deny it then how can you be for God if you are for using an excuse of the devil for staying in this sin by way of taking claim of some "genetic orientation", and they then say they can't help it?

We are all sinners! don't you know? We must all repent of the sin we have done. That means to turn away from it and allow the Holy Spirit to change us, to create a new spirit in us. And when that happens, the old man is dead. Don't you get it? Don't' you see how the Holy Word of God transforms the spirit of man into a pure Holy spirit that is healed of sin. Each time sin is revealed to us (we are all growing, a work in progress) , each time a sin is revealed to us we are to turn away from it and allow the Holy Spirit to infiltrate our whole being. The holy spirit heals us from that particular sin. It is a miracle that God does in all sinners! Healing! He heals us, to where we no longer have desire to be in that particular sin!
And any person who claims to be homosexual will find that IF they allow the Holy Spirit to work in and through them that they will be transformed also! No longer having any desire to sin that particular sin any longer. It is just a matter of time. It is not always an instant healing but some people resist and it takes a bit longer for healing to come. But what do you do? you act as if they can't help it and have no other choice but to be 'genetically oriented" that way! And you deny the truth of the Holy Spirit to work in and through them by way of your advocating to the lie of the devil instead of claiming in the instant the Healing Holy Word of God. Shame on you! Shame on you Sputnik, by accepting the lies of the devil that they take claim to, you are advocating that they are "genetically" "oriented" that way. Shame on you! Do you advocate for the pedophile who takes the claim of "genetic" "orientation" as being the cause of their sin also? :-?

How do you account for all the homosexuals that have come out of that sin and testify they have been totally healed by the grace and mercy of the Holy Spirit of God through Christ Jesus being Lord over their every thought and action?

And as far as you trying to use that old card of accusing people of judging others or throwing stones. Well, I do not throw stones "condemn" the sinner. To throw stones is to condemn someone for their sin. I do not condemn anyone, nor I do not judge. It is not the duty of every Christian to condemn or judge. It is God who condemns sin, and God judges the sinner. I don't need to do what God has not called me to do. However, the Holy Word of God has called all Christians to reprove, rebuke and exhort those who are in sin (as is my obligation to do so) , especially when it has been thrown in my face by those who practice the particular sin. It is my obligation to do so. And, it is not to say that I am judging anyone, but that, I am announcing the sin that is clearly out of line with the Holy Word of God.
If you don't like that fact that my spirit is lead to do so then take it up with God. It is not my fault you don't trust the Holy Word of God and you look down on it as being a "very old book". Your opinion as to the credence of the Holy book means nothing to me. I trust the Holy Word of God, not you. So you can accuse me of having some vendetta against the homosexual if you want. I can accuse you of having a vendetta against those who come to reprove, rebuke, and exhort that sin. It will not make your accusations against me any more true, but still remain false accusations against me. I have no anger towards homosexuals. I have a duty to call sin what it is, a sin. If you don't like what the bible says about homosexuality and if you insist that the bible has nothing to say about it and deny the facts when they are given to you, that is your problem, not mine. You will have to face God about that. I am not judging, I am calling sin for what it is.



Ephesians 5:11
And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them.

2 Timothy 4:1
1 I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;
2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.

3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;


4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.

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How can the healing of the Holy Spirit to come into being if the truth in the Holy Word of God is denied or perverted!

Do not ever pervert or deny truth of the Holy Word of God in trying to justify the sin of homosexuality.


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[christian_soldier]

Contrary to what you may or may not believe my only issue is with Christians who have - I believe - blown homosexuality way out of proportion. Furthermore, I feel sure that God is well able to judge each and every one of us and I doubt that he needs our help to do so. And, if 'homosexuality' is indeed genetic in nature I'm sure that He will likewise take such factors into consideration.

As for Relic merely being 'frustrated' ...what has someone's sexuality got to do with her anyway ...?

EDIT: LOL, Relic. I guess you posted while I was still typing. :

My guess would be, the source of Relic's frustration is most likely you.

What has someone's sexuality got to do with you, by your same question? Do you own the rights to the discussion?

IF 'homosexuality' is indeed genetic in nature ( a HUGE and UNFOUNDED IF, indeed) homosexual LUST is not excused anymore than heterosexual LUST is.

Sin is sin, why do you go to such lengths to defend sin?

 

[AHIMSA]

That we just don't know what they are going through or how badly they feel for being homosexuals in a society that doesn't accept them. Hog wash Sputnik! Hogwash! Cast that demon into the sea Sputnik! You are taking sides with the carnal by taking sympathy for the way they feel.

Relic, I think this is the hatred and unfounded anger that Sputnik Boy is talking about.

The honest truth (I know from experience) is that homosexuality, regardless of your position on its morality, is a very painful and tormenting burden to bear as one comes to realize their attractions and the way that society lables and rejects them.

Believe me, very few homosexuals are out there running around rejoicing in the idea that they are sinning and going against God. It's not a deliberate and spiteful "disobedience". They are honestly following what they feel is the path out of misery and despair.

You approach this topic with an utter and disgusting lack of charity, sympathy, compassion and humanity. I would hope all Christians would be embarassed to see you speaking in this manner in their name.

Where's your ideas of healing and wholeness? Where are your Christian attitudes of love and gentleness?

I think you are just content to dispose of people in pain, to write them off, to scoff at their so called sin for the sake of inflating your "sacred, saved, sanctified, holier than thou" ego with more empty air.

It has been my hope that these evidently spiteful, self-righteous and hateful methods of trying to repair a very broken world were a "relic" of the past, so to speak. But it appears that some of the less than Christ worthy Christian traditions are doomed to persist.

 

[Relic]

Relic, I think this is the hatred and unfounded anger that Sputnik Boy is talking about.

The honest truth (I know from experience) is that homosexuality, regardless of your position on its morality, is a very painful and tormenting burden to bear as one comes to realize their attractions and the way that society lables and rejects them.

Believe me, very few homosexuals are out there running around rejoicing in the idea that they are sinning and going against God. It's not a deliberate and spiteful "disobedience". They are honestly following what they feel is the path out of misery and despair.

You approach this topic with an utter and disgusting lack of charity, sympathy, compassion and humanity. I would hope all Christians would be embarassed to see you speaking in this manner in their name.

Where's your ideas of healing and wholeness? Where are your Christian attitudes of love and gentleness?

I think you are just content to dispose of people in pain, to write them off, to scoff at their so called sin for the sake of inflating your "sacred, saved, sanctified, holier than thou" ego with more empty air.

It has been my hope that these evidently spiteful, self-righteous and hateful methods of trying to repair a very broken world were a "relic" of the past, so to speak. But it appears that some of the less than Christ worthy Christian traditions are doomed to persist.

It is obvious you have not read the parts of any of the postings I made which direct to the Redeeming Saving Grace, the Mercy, and All Powerful Healing that is in and of our Lord and Savior Christ Jesus.

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[christian_soldier]

Relic, I think this is the hatred and unfounded anger that Sputnik Boy is talking about.

Where do you find hatred and anger there?

The conviction you feel inside is from God, not relic.

Accept the healing Love of God Almighty. Please.

 

[SputnikBoy]

Relic, I think this is the hatred and unfounded anger that Sputnik Boy is talking about.

Where do you find hatred and anger there?

Well, let's call it 'angry and hateful frustration' then.

The conviction you feel inside is from God, not relic.

I would say that any conviction (as in possible pangs of 'guilt' feelings) from within a Christian homosexual is a combination of angry and hateful and frustrated tirades by the likes of Relic and also the questionable scriptures that 'the Relics' of the Christian world aim at them in order to condemn them. Obviously one is not going to feel comfortable about themselves knowing how (some) others view them. Additionally, many might also be affected adversely by merely being 'different' from the norm. Conformity is the 'dough' that forms people into the cookies that we all feel safe with. We toss out the bad cookies because they leave a bad taste in our mouths. THIS has NOTHING to do with the Bible other than the fact that it is NOT Christian-like behavior.

What Relic is also implying (probably unwittingly) is that she herself has attained perfection (is not a sinner) and can therefore stand in judgment of others. There is MUCH ignorance regarding 'the state of homosexuality' and for one to imply that they have it all figured out is the height of arrogance.

Accept the healing Love of God Almighty. Please.

I know you don't mean to be patronizing, cs, but you are doing so with that statement. It's my understanding that AHIMSA HAS accepted Jesus into his life. Does he also have to pass muster with you and Relic ...?

Here's a question for you and other Christians, cs. When one has accepted Jesus into their lives and tossed the ball into Jesus' court, so to speak, is it then up to Jesus to 'heal' them or is the 'healing' dependent upon the individual's own efforts? This all sounds so extremely vague ...what exactly IS this 'healing' that you speak of, cs ...does it entail the conversion of a homosexual into a heterosexual? Or, in your view, is there no such thing as a homosexual anyway and all who claim to be 'homosexuals' are none other than heterosexual liars ...? If so, this is yet another nail of condemnation in the homosexual's coffin . . .

I await your response.

 

[christian_soldier]

I would say that any conviction (as in possible pangs of 'guilt' feelings) from within a Christian homosexual is a combination of angry and hateful and frustrated tirades by the likes of Relic and also the questionable scriptures that 'the Relics' of the Christian world aim at them in order to condemn them.

You totally leave out the possibility of the conviction manifested by the Holy Spirit witnessing to our transgressions - whatever our individual sins may be. And we ARE ALL SINNERS. BTW - your continued attempt to label relic as hateful and angry does not make the case.

Questionable scriptures? Have you not yet realized that you are debating the issue with folks who believe that the Bible - from Genesis though Revelations is the inerrant Word of God? It is not our goal to condemn, but to teach. Many will NEVER accept the Word of God. It is also our belief, that sadly, many will therefore perish into an eternity separated from God. That IS frustrating to us! Having others come along encouraging people to remain forever lost in their sin is doubly frustrating.

What Relic is also implying (probably unwittingly) is that she herself has attained perfection (is not a sinner) and can therefore stand in judgment of others.

It's funny how two people can read the same posts and come up with two different impressions.

I see relic as someone who recognizes that our carnal nature does not just go away - that there is a daily battle with the enemy whose job is to tempt us. BUT - the measure of the spiritual growth of a Christian is in how we CHOOSE to handle temptation.

I know you don't mean to be patronizing, cs, but you are doing so with that statement. It's my understanding that AHIMSA HAS accepted Jesus into his life. Does he also have to pass muster with you and Relic ...?

Nope. Only with God through the Holy Spirit given to him through Christ Jesus.

Here's a question for you and other Christians, cs. When one has accepted Jesus into their lives and tossed the ball into Jesus' court, so to speak, is it then up to Jesus to 'heal' them or is the 'healing' dependent upon the individual's own efforts? This all sounds so extremely vague ...what exactly IS this 'healing' that you speak of, cs ...does it entail the conversion of a homosexual into a heterosexual? Or, in your view, is there no such thing as a homosexual anyway and all who claim to be 'homosexuals' are none other than heterosexual liars ...? If so, this is yet another nail of condemnation in the homosexual's coffin . . .

I await your response.

Once the ball has been tossed, to continue your analogy, the 'game' does not end. You are still a carnal creature with free will. God is NOT a puppet master! But, now, you have a personal trainer on the sidelines to strengthen you in your game - the Holy Spirit! Ignore your coach and continue to stumble OR play your best game and grow daily. Your choice.

I don't know why homosexuals burn with lust for their own gender. But, based on my own experiences with lust, it is a controllable sin. Whether the desires ever turn to the opposite sex, as intended by Design is a question to ask folks who have walked that road.

The first result of receiving the Holy Spirit is a genuine desire to change - a desire to become as much like Jesus as is humanly possible.

One finds a change in attitude occurring. If one used to respond to a shapely figure passing by, by following with the eye, forming thoughts within the mind, allowing desires to grow within the heart which lead to actions by the body, then one starts to respond by nipping the temptation in the bud - simply by looking away, and intentionally focusing one's thoughts on less worldly things.

If one has said the sinners prayer, but sees no change in themselves, then through introspection they need to determine if they have been sincere in their commitment in the first place. Its not a magic mantra, it is a condition of the heart. You cannot fake repentance. Some need to be beaten right down to the Rock before they truly yield themselves as contrite spirits.

I truly hope that helps clarify.

 

[christian_soldier]

I think this falls in line with the OP:

http://rainbowallianceopenfaith.homeste ... Love3.html

 

[carey]

hmm

The same was said of Christians that interpreted scripture as saying that interracial marriage was ok. Now it is mainstream theology that interracial marriage is ok. You are just seeing the beginnings of yet another shift in Christian theology to come up to date with modern cultural values.

Interracial marriage is ok???? :o

 

[carey]

????

its funny. When a gay interprets scripture diffrently, they are bad, evil and wrong.


however, when a heterosexual interprets scripture diffrently, they are just a diffrent sect of Christianity.

I guess they missed this part

Romans 1 : 26Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. 27In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion.

 

[dancing queen]

I have not read all this thread, but I think this sums up what I think on it. We are all equal as no sin is worse than another, and none of us deserve to go to heaven. If you turn to Christ you to go to heaven by grace, not because God stops you sinning.

Some have implied if your gay and become a Christian then God will heal you. I dont think this is necessarily true, he may, he may not. They may not be fully 'healed' till heaven, but does that make them any less of a Christian? Of course not.

As Christian we're called to repent of our sin, for some that's repenting for lusting after the same sex, for some its lusting after the other, or being greedy, the list can run for ever.

A christian friend of mine has choosen to go and work with rapist in prison, as they look to rejoin society etc. She was talking to one guy about why he did, he said 'some people are tempted by chocolate, some tempted to steal, I was tempted to rape and gave in'. I think this sums up that we all struggle against some sin or another, its how you respond that counts not that you struggle.

 

[carey]

Agreed

I have not read all this thread, but I think this sums up what I think on it. We are all equal as no sin is worse than another, and none of us deserve to go to heaven. If you turn to Christ you to go to heaven by grace, not because God stops you sinning.

Some have implied if your gay and become a Christian then God will heal you. I dont think this is necessarily true, he may, he may not. They may not be fully 'healed' till heaven, but does that make them any less of a Christian? Of course not.

As Christian we're called to repent of our sin, for some that's repenting for lusting after the same sex, for some its lusting after the other, or being greedy, the list can run for ever.

A christian friend of mine has choosen to go and work with rapist in prison, as they look to rejoin society etc. She was talking to one guy about why he did, he said 'some people are tempted by chocolate, some tempted to steal, I was tempted to rape and gave in'. I think this sums up that we all struggle against some sin or another, its how you respond that counts not that you struggle.

Very good post and I am glad the rapist did not try to twist the word of God to try to justify what he did as many homosexuals do.

 

[Drew]

Re: hmm

Interracial marriage is ok???? :o

Please tell me you're joking here.....

 

[carey]

Re: hmm

Please tell me you're joking here.....

Quath wrote:
The same was said of Christians that interpreted scripture as saying that interracial marriage was ok. Now it is mainstream theology that interracial marriage is ok. You are just seeing the beginnings of yet another shift in Christian theology to come up to date with modern cultural values.

 

[Rick W]

The same was said of Christians that interpreted scripture as saying that interracial marriage was ok. Now it is mainstream theology that interracial marriage is ok. You are just seeing the beginnings of yet another shift in Christian theology to come up to date with modern cultural values.

So Quath,
When do you suppose shacking-up within Christian theology will come up to date with modern cultural values?

 

[carey]

hmmm

So Quath,
When do you suppose shacking-up within Christian theology will come up to date with modern cultural values?

I have done threads on shaking up.

What is shaking up??

What is marriage?? Who married Adam and Eve??

Can anyone be married if they are divorced??

 

[Quath]

When do you suppose shacking-up within Christian theology will come up to date with modern cultural values?

So looking into my Crazy-8 ball and throwing some D&D dice and a touch of historical guidelines, I have the following prediction:

In 2004, 63% opposed and 30% favored gay marriage. In 2006, 51% opposed and 39% favored. So we seem to be on the steep path towards acceptance. So my guess is that Christians will accept gay marriage as something that is not forbidden by the Bible in 20 years.

As for living together without marriage, I think there is some loose acceptance of it now, but I don't think it will be accepted. I think people like the idea of committment. So they will want for people to eventually commit but pre-maritial sex will be just seen as a minor sin. (As opposed to the death penality type sin of the past.)

So I think Christians today are up-to-date with shacking up. They may talk against it, but they are not stoning the people.

 

[christian_soldier]

So my guess is that Christians will accept gay marriage as something that is not forbidden by the Bible in 20 years.

Guess again. More people may accept it, because the population will grow and there will be more unfounded masses.

BUT, the Word of God DOES NOT CHANGE and BIBLE BELIEVING Christians WILL NOT accept the homosexual lifestyle as being sanctioned by God. Ever.

So I think Christians today are up-to-date with shacking up. They may talk against it, but they are not stoning the people.

No one is stoning homosexuals, to my knowledge, either.

 

[Quath]

BUT, the Word of God DOES NOT CHANGE and BIBLE BELIEVING Christians WILL NOT accept the homosexual lifestyle as being sanctioned by God. Ever.

What I am saying is that future Christians will not see the Bible condemning homosexuality, just as modern Christians do not see the Bible condemning women's sufferage, interracial marriage or letting people worship other gods.

No one is stoning homosexuals, to my knowledge, either.

Yeah, the relative morality as given by the Bible.

 

[WiLdAtHeArT]

Why not accept all kinds of sexual 'preferences'? After all, if homosexuals are born that way, then why can't pedophiles be considered that way? Or beastiality? Polygamy? Adultery? Or (insert the wildest craziest fetish anybody can imagine...) Its not like they choose to be that way, right? Let's just accept everybody's behavior and call it 'normal'. So all of you addicted to pornography... it's not your fault! You were born that way. Just accept it and don't call it a sin. Why would God punish people who just can't help the way they are inside?

This is a lie straight from hell. Believe me, the enemy wants you to think this way.

I have a 'natural' tendency to lust after women - which I choose to battle against in my goal to be like Christ who set me free from sin and death. Those who have a 'natural' tendency towards homosexuality can do the same. Instead, activists are on a campaign to call righteous what is sinful.