How many “churches” are there?

[Paul Timothy]

I think you must have missed post # 137 where I listed my point that I have made several times now.


Here is one of my points that I have made.

And I believe I previously stated I agree with this point. Your emphasis on certain words is unnecessary.

 

[donadams]

Everybody thinks the church they attend is the one true church, lol.

There is only one true church - the body of Christ. The body of Christ is all those who belong to the body of Christ by virtue of the indwelling Holy Spirit. Because of the corruption that entered the church shortly after the time of the Apostles (Acts 20:29) there has not been a group of people that, as a whole and as an earthly entity, represents the body of Christ, the church, as that was true in the day of the Apostles. The best we have now are various organizations meeting in buildings where people, who may or may not belong to the one true church, the body of Christ, meet together under various official creeds and beliefs and practices that have strayed to one degree or another from the original church of the Apostles.

Do we have to choose?

To Humble ourselves? Matt 11:29 Matt 23:12
Abide in Christ? Jn 15:1-5
Endure to the end? Matt 24:13
Mk 13:13
To Suffer? Phil 1:29
Take the Narrow road? Matt 7:14
To Remain sober? 1 pet 4:7
To Watch and pray? Matt 26:41

Or do we have No free will at all?

 

[donadams]

Actually it refers to the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit.

In baptism
Acts 22:16

Also You seem to lack the virtues of Jesus Christ, meekness, humility, charity. Matt 11:29

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Do we have to choose?

To Humble ourselves? Matt 11:29 Matt 23:12
Abide in Christ? Jn 15:1-5
Endure to the end? Matt 24:13
Mk 13:13
To Suffer? Phil 1:29
Take the Narrow road? Matt 7:14
To Remain sober? 1 pet 4:7
To Watch and pray? Matt 26:41

Or do we have No free will at all?

You have free will.

 

[Paul Timothy]

In baptism
Acts 22:16

The previous passage that was in discussion I don't believe mentioned baptism at all.
You just provided a different verse to claim what the first meant.
Link the two together and prove that one impacts the other.
That is how to make an argument work.

Also You seem to lack the virtues of Jesus Christ, meekness, humility, charity. Matt 11:29

How do I lack these virtues? What have you asked me about these virtues?
And are you not now violating ToS 1.1 and 1.3?
Stick to the ideas and not the person.
Please be a sensitive to others.

 

[donadams]

You're Catholic. You're taught that the act of baptism makes you righteous, rather than God's mercy given in the forgiveness of sin and the imputation of his righteousness via the Holy Spirit. You serve a works gospel. You serve a false religion that says you are made righteous by being obedient to do righteous deeds and rituals instead of being made righteous by God's forgiveness and the Holy Spirit. Titus 3:5, 2 Timothy 2:9

We get all that but thru the sacraments

 

[donadams]

Rev 1:18
Jesus.

Jesus gave them to peter
No king administers his own kingdom he always appoints a prime minister with keys of authority and ministers under him
Jesus does this in many verses
Example Jn 21:17
Sheep: apostles
Lambs: the people

 

[donadams]

There are those among all the members of Christ's body who have various gifts of leadership and administration - Ephesians 4:11.

Under the apostles who are under Peter under christ

 

[donadams]

God always establishes peace and order by obedience to proper authority of the fathers

 

[Paul Timothy]

Jesus gave them to peter
No king administers his own kingdom he always appoints a prime minister with keys of authority and ministers under him
Jesus does this in many verses
Example Jn 21:17
Sheep: apostles
Lambs: the people

Wow you did not read the reference.
So when did Peter hand the keys to death and hell back to Jesus?

 

[Jethro Bodine]

We get all that but thru the sacraments

If you think the sacraments make you righteous you are serving a works gospel.

 

[donadams]

If you think the sacraments make you righteous you are serving a works gospel.

If our sins are washed away and we put on Christ are we righteous?

 

[donadams]

You have free will.

But we are forbidden to choose righteousness?

 

[donadams]

The previous passage that was in discussion I don't believe mentioned baptism at all.
You just provided a different verse to claim what the first meant.
Link the two together and prove that one impacts the other.
That is how to make an argument work.

How do I lack these virtues? What have you asked me about these virtues?
And are you not now violating ToS 1.1 and 1.3?
Stick to the ideas and not the person.
Please be a sensitive to others.

Sorry I meant we all need to practice them

 

[donadams]

Wow you did not read the reference.
So when did Peter hand the keys to death and hell back to Jesus?

I did not see it sorry busy
Peter never had the keys to death and hell
Only the keys of the kingdom
Authority to teach sanctify and govern the new covenant church
The kingdom of God on earth!

 

[donadams]

If you think the sacraments make you righteous you are serving a works gospel.

No cos I can’t baptize myself

 

[donadams]

Why is baptism included in the scriptures?
Mk 16:16
Jn 3:5
Acts 2:48
Acts 8:36-38
Acts 22:16
1 cor 12:13
Gal 3:27
Eph 1:13
Eph 4:5
1 pet 3:20

(Born of God) faith and baptism

Jn 1:12-13 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

1 Jn 5:4 For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.

5 Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?

6 This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth.

7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

8 And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.

Born of God by baptism

 

[Jethro Bodine]

If our sins are washed away and we put on Christ are we righteous?

Yes, made righteous by the mercy of God in the forgiveness of sin and the imputation of his righteousness via the holy spirit received by faith, not made righteous because you did something righteous that God declares you righteous for doing- that's the works gospel condemned in scripture.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

But we are forbidden to choose righteousness?

You are free to believe that God will forgive you and give you his righteousness as a free gift of his grace apart from the work of performing deeds and rituals to get him to declare you righteous for doing those righteous things.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

No cos I can’t baptize myself

Neither was circumcision a self inflicted ritual, yet it is the epitome of doing 'work' in order to be righteous before God.

You don't understand why work can not make you righteous. That's why you think it's a matter of doing the right kind of work to be justified. But no work is able to make you righteous. Work has no power to do that. You don't become a righteous person by doing righteous things. That's why God will not declare you righteous for doing work. You can only be made righteous by having the unrighteousness of your sin removed through the forgiveness of that sin and being given the righteousness of God as a free gift of his grace received by simply believing his promise that he'll give it to you.

To be made righteous is to receive a righteousness outside of yourself. You do not become a righteous person by obediently doing righteous things. This is the revelation that came to Luther which caused him to reject and abandon the Catholic church.