How many “churches” are there?

[JLB]

So you use no references for your thoughts on Church.
But I asked for your understanding of the work ekklisia.
So do you know what the Greek word means or are you trying to avoid the question?

Do you disagree with what I posted

 

[Paul Timothy]

Do you disagree with what I posted

Seeing as you never answered the question... Yes I guess I disagree with you.
If you think you answered the question... I would definitely disagree with you.

 

[donadams]

By believing God's promise of a son who would inherit the blessing on our behalf. Everybody is made righteous that way. Abraham is our example of that.

Made righteous by humility?
Luke 18:14
I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.

 

[donadams]

By your definition the Apostolic Church would be the one founded by Christ.
Not the Catholic Church.

And 5 of the 7 Churches in Revelation have God actively fighting/removing/warring with them.
So the 5/7ths of the one true church has God working against them.
Sounds right to you?

Founded by Christ alone yes Matt 16:18

 

[Paul Timothy]

Founded by Christ alone yes Matt 16:18

Incorrect interpretation.

Read carefully the text you provided.
Nothing about founding to be found in the text.
Building is different then founding.
I would say the founding was back in the Garden.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Grace is not possible apart from the sacraments

That is a works gospel. `

Made righteous by humility?
Luke 18:14
I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.

Uh, no.

You're not listening.
God's forgiveness is what makes you righteous in God's sight. Thats the only way to have your unrighteousness removed from before him and replaced with his perfect righteousness. You doing righteous deeds and rituals does not make you righteous. Only having your unrighteousness forgiven as a free gift of God's grace and mercy, received by having faith in that forgiveness, can do that.

Stop jumping through hoops to get what God gives one time for all time when one believes God's word about the Son he promised to Abraham to send and inherit the blessing on our behalf.

 

[donadams]

Incorrect interpretation.

Read carefully the text you provided.
Nothing about founding to be found in the text.
Building is different then founding.
I would say the founding was back in the Garden.

Difference with no distinction

 

[donadams]

That is a works gospel. `


Uh, no.

You're not listening.
God's forgiveness is what makes you righteous in God's sight. Thats the only way to have your unrighteousness removed from before him and replaced with his perfect righteousness. You doing righteous deeds and rituals does not make you righteous. Only having your unrighteousness forgiven as a free gift of God's grace and mercy, received by having faith in that forgiveness, can do that.

Stop jumping through hoops to get what God gives one time for all time when one believes God's word about the Son he promised to Abraham to send and inherit the blessing on our behalf.

He did not go away justified?

 

[Paul Timothy]

Difference with no distinction

Actually I did give a big distinction.
I said when the Church was founded.
And it is a distinction of 4k years, with an entirely different situation, with a different set of people(sinless v sinful).
A fair distinction.
Please learn to use these phrases in their proper context.
Just copying what I say does not mean you understand the phrase in question.

 

[JLB]

Seeing as you never answered the question... Yes I guess I disagree with you.
If you think you answered the question... I would definitely disagree with you.

So far, here are a few of the answers and scripture references for what I have posted.

If these are not considered to be “answers” or “references” then pleas tell me what is?

Maybe pick one thing out that you disagree with and let’s specifically discuss that thing.




You are confusing the church with a church building that is of a denomination.

The church is the body of Christ, universal.

Now you are the body of Christ, and members individually. And God has appointed these in the church:… 1 Corinthians 12:27-28

Each person is a member of the church; the body of Christ

Each city according to scripture, has a church that gathers there.
Not many different church denominations in a city, but one church that gathers in a city.

And to the angel of the church in Philadelphia write…
Revelation 3:7


The Church is the body of Christ.

Not a building. Not a denomination.


The church is a separate people group, called out of darkness into His marvelous light; a holy nation, a royal priesthood, a kingdom of priests.

• And you shall be to Me a kingdom of priests and a holy nation.’ These are the words which you shall speak to the children of Israel.” Exodus 19:6

• But you are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, His own special people, that you may proclaim the praises of Him who called you out of darkness into His marvelous light; who once were not a people but are now the people of God, who had not obtained mercy but now have obtained mercy. 1 Peter 2:9-10

The Church is a holy nation, and was typified by the nation of Israel.

The Church is the Israel of God.

For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision avails anything, but a new creation. And as many as walk according to this rule, peace and mercy be upon them, and upon the Israel of God.
Galatians 6:15-16

Jesus is Israel; A Prince of God.

When Israel was a child, I loved him,
And out of Egypt I called My son.
Hosea 11:1

When he arose, he took the young Child and His mother by night and departed for Egypt, and was there until the death of Herod, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the Lord through the prophet, saying, “Out of Egypt I called My Son.” Matthew 2:14-15






JLB

 

[Paul Timothy]

So far, here are a few of the answers and scripture references for what I have posted.

If these are not considered to be “answers” or “references” then pleas tell me what is?

Maybe pick one thing out that you disagree with and let’s specifically discuss that thing.




You are confusing the church with a church building that is of a denomination.

The church is the body of Christ, universal.

Now you are the body of Christ, and members individually. And God has appointed these in the church:… 1 Corinthians 12:27-28

Each person is a member of the church; the body of Christ

Each city according to scripture, has a church that gathers there.
Not many different church denominations in a city, but one church that gathers in a city.

And to the angel of the church in Philadelphia write…
Revelation 3:7


The Church is the body of Christ.

Not a building. Not a denomination.


The church is a separate people group, called out of darkness into His marvelous light; a holy nation, a royal priesthood, a kingdom of priests.

• And you shall be to Me a kingdom of priests and a holy nation.’ These are the words which you shall speak to the children of Israel.” Exodus 19:6

• But you are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, His own special people, that you may proclaim the praises of Him who called you out of darkness into His marvelous light; who once were not a people but are now the people of God, who had not obtained mercy but now have obtained mercy. 1 Peter 2:9-10

The Church is a holy nation, and was typified by the nation of Israel.

The Church is the Israel of God.

For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision avails anything, but a new creation. And as many as walk according to this rule, peace and mercy be upon them, and upon the Israel of God.
Galatians 6:15-16

Jesus is Israel; A Prince of God.

When Israel was a child, I loved him,
And out of Egypt I called My son.
Hosea 11:1

When he arose, he took the young Child and His mother by night and departed for Egypt, and was there until the death of Herod, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the Lord through the prophet, saying, “Out of Egypt I called My Son.” Matthew 2:14-15






JLB

I asked you to define "ekklasia" and you did not.
You posted this post in response to a question I asked.
So that is not answering my question.

Now if you want to discuss these secondary ideas of church... start a new thread and we will see.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

He did not go away justified?

The mercy he pleaded for made him righteous (justified), not what he did to get it:

"God, have mercy on me, a sinner!" Luke 18:13-14,

"He saved us, not by the righteous deeds we had done, but according to his mercy" Titus 3:5.

 

[JLB]

I asked you to define "ekklasia" and you did not.
You posted this post in response to a question I asked.
So that is not answering my question.

Now if you want to discuss these secondary ideas of church... start a new thread and we will see.

The word church is ekklēsia. I have been discussing ekklēsia this whole time. Church is English and ekklēsia is Greek.

I speak English.

And I also say to you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build My church, and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it.
Matthew 16:18

church - G1577

The KJV translates Strong's G1577 in the following manner: church (115x), assembly (3x).


So far, here are a few of the answers and scripture references for what I have posted.



Maybe pick one thing out that you disagree with and let’s specifically discuss that thing.






The church is the body of Christ, universal.

Now you are the body of Christ, and members individually. And God has appointed these in the church:… 1 Corinthians 12:27-28

Each person is a member of the church; the body of Christ

Each city according to scripture, has a church that gathers there.
Not many different church denominations in a city, but one church that gathers in a city.

And to the angel of the church in Philadelphia write…
Revelation 3:7


The Church is the body of Christ.

Not a building. Not a denomination.


The church is a separate people group, called out of darkness into His marvelous light; a holy nation, a royal priesthood, a kingdom of priests.

• And you shall be to Me a kingdom of priests and a holy nation.’ These are the words which you shall speak to the children of Israel.” Exodus 19:6

• But you are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, His own special people, that you may proclaim the praises of Him who called you out of darkness into His marvelous light; who once were not a people but are now the people of God, who had not obtained mercy but now have obtained mercy. 1 Peter 2:9-10

The Church is a holy nation, and was typified by the nation of Israel.

The Church is the Israel of God.

For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision avails anything, but a new creation. And as many as walk according to this rule, peace and mercy be upon them, and upon the Israel of God.
Galatians 6:15-16

Jesus is Israel; A Prince of God.

When Israel was a child, I loved him,
And out of Egypt I called My son.
Hosea 11:1

When he arose, he took the young Child and His mother by night and departed for Egypt, and was there until the death of Herod, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the Lord through the prophet, saying, “Out of Egypt I called My Son.” Matthew 2:14-15

 

[Paul Timothy]

The word church is ekklēsia. I have been discussing ekklēsia this whole time. Church is English and ekklēsia is Greek.

I speak English.

And I also say to you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build My church, and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it.
Matthew 16:18

church - G1577

The KJV translates Strong's G1577 in the following manner: church (115x), assembly (3x).


So far, here are a few of the answers and scripture references for what I have posted.



Maybe pick one thing out that you disagree with and let’s specifically discuss that thing.






The church is the body of Christ, universal.

Now you are the body of Christ, and members individually. And God has appointed these in the church:… 1 Corinthians 12:27-28

Each person is a member of the church; the body of Christ

Each city according to scripture, has a church that gathers there.
Not many different church denominations in a city, but one church that gathers in a city.

And to the angel of the church in Philadelphia write…
Revelation 3:7


The Church is the body of Christ.

Not a building. Not a denomination.


The church is a separate people group, called out of darkness into His marvelous light; a holy nation, a royal priesthood, a kingdom of priests.

• And you shall be to Me a kingdom of priests and a holy nation.’ These are the words which you shall speak to the children of Israel.” Exodus 19:6

• But you are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, His own special people, that you may proclaim the praises of Him who called you out of darkness into His marvelous light; who once were not a people but are now the people of God, who had not obtained mercy but now have obtained mercy. 1 Peter 2:9-10

The Church is a holy nation, and was typified by the nation of Israel.

The Church is the Israel of God.

For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision avails anything, but a new creation. And as many as walk according to this rule, peace and mercy be upon them, and upon the Israel of God.
Galatians 6:15-16

Jesus is Israel; A Prince of God.

When Israel was a child, I loved him,
And out of Egypt I called My son.
Hosea 11:1

When he arose, he took the young Child and His mother by night and departed for Egypt, and was there until the death of Herod, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the Lord through the prophet, saying, “Out of Egypt I called My Son.” Matthew 2:14-15

Thank you for finally answering my question.

So a gathering is an ekklisia. A single individual is not a Church.
Ok... see this is how you move a conversation forward... one step at a time... like walking.

Hmm.. what do I disagree with you on in this post... hmmm.
Well your Hosea reference does not say Jesus is Israel.
But lets go with one Church per city.

What building in Jerusalem could hold 3000+ persons on a Sunday?
Did the Disciples go from house to house breaking bread... or was there a large gathering of 3000+ persons?
Are there not passages that say a church met in a house? Phil 1:2
So buildings were part of it not just a city, or the above passage would not be addressed to an individual and their house.
I understand these are little things but error starts small and builds over time.
Keep the details straight and the devil won't be in them.

 

[JLB]

So a gathering is an ekklisia. A single individual is not a Church.
Ok... see this is how you move a conversation forward... one step at a time... like walking.

I gave you the same answer have given several times.

Now you see that Church = Ekklesia we can move the conversation along.

Again as the scripture plainly states…

Now you are the body of Christ, and members individually. And God has appointed these in the church:… 1 Corinthians 12:27-28

The Church universal is His body; the body of Christ.


As we see from scripture there is a fullness of understanding the three fold understanding of church.

A house = member individually

A city = corporate

A kingdom = the church universally in heaven and earth.

But Jesus knew their thoughts, and said to them: “Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation, and every city or house divided against itself will not stand. Matthew 12:25

God recognizes one church in a city, not different denominations housed in buildings but the church in that city.

To the angel of the church of Ephesus write,
‘These things says He who holds the seven stars in His right hand, who walks in the midst of the seven golden lampstands:
Revelation 2:1


To the church of God which is at Corinth, to those who are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all who in every place call on the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours:
1 Corinthians 1:2

This doesn’t mean that the church in a city can not meet in different places, different homes, different buildings because it has grown, and spread. The Lord still sees His body, the church in ”corporate sense” in a city.


He does not recognize denominations or sects but only sees those who are His individually as a corporate expression in a city.


Paul, an apostle (not from men nor through man, but through Jesus Christ and God the Father who raised Him from the dead), and all the brethren who are with me, to the churches of Galatia:
Galatians 1:2


Galatia was a region made up of many cities.


Again, the church is the body of Christ made up of members.

Now you are the body of Christ, and members individually. And God has appointed these in the church: 1 Corinthians 12:27-28


Just as there are many members in a family, and each member is part of that one family.

There is many houses in one city.

There are many cities in one kingdom.




JLB

 

[Paul Timothy]

I gave you the same answer have given several times.

Yes you have but none of those was an answer to my question.

Now you see that Church = Ekklesia we can move the conversation along.

No the Church does not equal ekklesia.
Ekklesia can be any gathering and is defined by yourself as an assembly.
That is a gathering. You can't be an ekklesia of one.

Again as the scripture plainly states…

Now you are the body of Christ, and members individually. And God has appointed these in the church:… 1 Corinthians 12:27-28

The Church universal is His body; the body of Christ.

You are adding the word universal as a sneaky way to get catholic into the mix.
Please if you are going to use the Bible as your reference, be specific.

As we see from scripture there is a fullness of understanding the three fold understanding of church.

A house = member individually

Not an ekklesia so not a church. A member of a church, maybe... but not a church.

A city = corporate

Yes... agree totally and always have.

A kingdom = the church universally in heaven and earth.

An as of yet unrealized potential.
One day that will be the Church but until then.
Oh, and you have changed all of the above definitions from your earlier posts.

But Jesus knew their thoughts, and said to them: “Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation, and every city or house divided against itself will not stand. Matthew 12:25

God recognizes one church in a city, not different denominations housed in buildings but the church in that city.

You are putting words in God's mouth that He did not speak.
What if there was a small church outside of town?
Is that it's own church or part of the towns church?
What about several small town in very close proximity? One church or 2 or 3?
And remember that we agree that church=assembly.
If there are many assemblies is it still one church or many?

To the angel of the church of Ephesus write,
‘These things says He who holds the seven stars in His right hand, who walks in the midst of the seven golden lampstands:
Revelation 2:1


To the church of God which is at Corinth, to those who are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all who in every place call on the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours:
1 Corinthians 1:2

This doesn’t mean that the church in a city can not meet in different places, different homes, different buildings because it has grown, and spread. The Lord still sees His body, the church in ”corporate sense” in a city.

How about many different meetings at the same time?
Too many people to fit so we break into different groups... but maybe the teaching is different in different groups.
So denominations are born.

He does not recognize denominations or sects but only sees those who are His individually as a corporate expression in a city.

Sounds right. But we are free to recognize denominations. Just not to idolize our denominations.
So no church should say they are the one true church.
That would be the domain of God and not man.

Paul, an apostle (not from men nor through man, but through Jesus Christ and God the Father who raised Him from the dead), and all the brethren who are with me, to the churches of Galatia:
Galatians 1:2


Galatia was a region made up of many cities.


Again, the church is the body of Christ made up of members.

Now you are the body of Christ, and members individually. And God has appointed these in the church: 1 Corinthians 12:27-28

I have never argued against that idea.
I am not the one saying that the church is divided.

Just as there are many members in a family, and each member is part of that one family.

There is many houses in one city.

There are many cities in one kingdom.

No argument here.
So one Church.
Many divisions.
Ice cream is milk, cream and sugar... but some prefer Chunky Monkey over Tiger Stripe.
We are all one Church under God.
The one who says "my church is the one true church" is the one who takes the place of God in deciding who is of the Body and who is not.

 

[donadams]

Actually I did give a big distinction.
I said when the Church was founded.
And it is a distinction of 4k years, with an entirely different situation, with a different set of people(sinless v sinful).
A fair distinction.
Please learn to use these phrases in their proper context.
Just copying what I say does not mean you understand the phrase in question.

The new covenant church was founded by Christ on Peter Matt 16:18 and the apostles eph 2:20
All others are the unauthorized tradition of men

 

[Paul Timothy]

The new covenant church was founded by Christ on Peter Matt 16:18 and the apostles eph 2:20
All others are the unauthorized tradition of men

But the disciples started many different churches.
Which one are you referring to as there are quite a few founded during the lifetime of the disciples.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

The new covenant church was founded by Christ on Peter Matt 16:18 and the apostles eph 2:20
All others are the unauthorized tradition of men

Everybody thinks the church they attend is the one true church, lol.

There is only one true church - the body of Christ. The body of Christ is all those who belong to the body of Christ by virtue of the indwelling Holy Spirit. Because of the corruption that entered the church shortly after the time of the Apostles (Acts 20:29) there has not been a group of people that, as a whole and as an earthly entity, represents the body of Christ, the church, as that was true in the day of the Apostles. The best we have now are various organizations meeting in buildings where people, who may or may not belong to the one true church, the body of Christ, meet together under various official creeds and beliefs and practices that have strayed to one degree or another from the original church of the Apostles.

 

[JLB]

No the Church does not equal ekklesia.
Ekklesia can be any gathering and is defined by yourself as an assembly.
That is a gathering. You can't be an ekklesia of one.

Church is Ekklesia.

Church is English. Ekklesia is Greek.

Just as Christ and Messiah are different words that mean the same thing.

So you don’t believe another name for the Church is the body of Christ?