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Bible Study How Many Judgments Are There?

jasonc said:
but not mine. the easiest and shortest way of saying mine is post trib. but this the bible study so I cant debate this.
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I agree with you, because of John 6:40. Jesus says that He will return and raise up the believers on the last day. Since it is the LAST day, there can't be a day seven years BEFORE the last day when Jesus raises up His believers. I'm with Mr. Chopper when he says "I have tried to take a very simple approach to understanding..." I can understand what "the last day" is. So my view of eschatology is VERY simple. We are in the last days. We see tribulation all around us. We see wars and rumors of wars. This will continue until the last day when Jesus returns to resurrect the dead and judge the "quick and the dead". And those who are with Him will receive eternal life with Him, and those who are judged to be against Him will not receive eternal life.
 
Kathi said:
Isn't that what the tribulation is Chopper?Do you think the Holy Spirit will remain on this earth during the tribulation?
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Yes my Sister Theologian. That is what the first half of the tribulation is for, IMO. That 3 1/2 year period will put all Christians to the test of their faith. I believe that's what is going on as we communicate. World devastation, unimaginable loss of life, grieving the dead because of wars and rumors of wars. The threat of terrorists around every corner. Will the Christians who are involved in these happenings, retain their faith in Jesus Christ? Or will they apostatize and basically say, "where is God?" Why is He letting this happen to me? "I pray for the protection of me and my family, and now they are dead!" There will be all kinds of reasons that they will walk away from their faith in Jesus. BUT GOD!! BUT GOD!! has a remnant who will not cave in to the events of the time. They won't have any real answers, just that they know by faith that what is happening is prophesied in the Word of God and are not asleep concerning these events. It is those who are numb to these events, asleep concerning prophesy, and will tragically fail in faith.

I believe, at the conclusion of the first 3 1/2 years of Tribulation for the Church, the Remnant will be gathered to glory, the Holy Spirit will accompany the Remnant, and be absent from the earth, as the Great Tribulation, or Jacob's trouble commences with the revelation of antichrist desecrating the Temple and all hell breaks loose on Israel.

This is just my humble, simple belief. Honestly? I don't really know!! All I know, is that Jesus is coming soon. I know that, just like I know that this is a new day and I'm getting closer to His return. I refuse to stick my head in the sand and go to sleep. I will stay alert, and continue to warn Christians to live for Jesus, and look for His coming. expecting Christ's return perhaps today.
 
Chopper said:
IMO. That 3 1/2 year period will put all Christians to the test of their faith.
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Rev 7:14 . . These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
Brother Chopper, do you think these of the great multitude will make up that cohort of the church you describe as experiencing the test of their faith?

If so, I would then ask what you think of those seen by John already with Jesus when He receives His own throne in Rev 4:2 prior to the temptation to come upon all the world (The first 3 1/2 years of tribulation). There's even a promise to those brethren alive when He comes in the air for us, that we will be kept from that time for patiently keeping His word. Thus, ALL Christians will not be on earth during that time of tribulation. Possibly the need to be ready?

Rev 3:10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.

Love you in Jesus, old man. :lol
 
Hi there Eugene, The answer to your first question is no.

1Pe 4:12 Beloved, think it not strange concerning the fiery trial which is to try you, as though some strange thing happened unto you:
1Pe 4:13 But rejoice, inasmuch as ye are partakers of Christ's sufferings; that, when his glory shall be revealed, ye may be glad also with exceeding joy.
1Pe 4:14 If ye be reproached for the name of Christ, happy are ye; for the spirit of glory and of God resteth upon you: on their part he is evil spoken of, but on your part he is glorified.
1Pe 4:15 But let none of you suffer as a murderer, or as a thief, or as an evildoer, or as a busybody in other men's matters.
1Pe 4:16 Yet if any man suffer as a Christian, let him not be ashamed; but let him glorify God on this behalf.
1Pe 4:17 For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?

Obviously those who come out of the great tribulation can't be the Church that was tried during the first half of the trib....Your question threw me off with the words "great multitude" I'm assuming you are referring to those who have washed their robs.

During the first half of the trib. all Christians will be tested. During the second half of the trib. Israel will be tested. Two separate groups. I don't see any non-Jew coming out of the trib. saved. Only Israel. They will finally realize that Jesus is their messiah.

As for Rev. 3:10, that is when the end of the first half of the trib comes, all Christians who have been tested and have not apostatized, (religious rebellion) but held fast to their profession of faith, will be gathered to the Lord by the power of the Holy Spirit. He (Holy Spirit) will gather up the victorious believers and with Himself go to Jesus, who, I suppose, will present us to His Father as His glorious Church....I like 1 Peter 4:17 because I think it explains the purpose of the first half of the trib. in that judgment must begin during the first half of the trib. with the Church to reveal who is really Jesus' Church. Because the Holy Spirit takes us up to be the the Lord, He will not come back on the earth.
 
Chopper said:
Hi there Eugene, The answer to your first question is no.

1Pe 4:12 Beloved, think it not strange concerning the fiery trial which is to try you, as though some strange thing happened unto you:
1Pe 4:13 But rejoice, inasmuch as ye are partakers of Christ's sufferings; that, when his glory shall be revealed, ye may be glad also with exceeding joy.
1Pe 4:14 If ye be reproached for the name of Christ, happy are ye; for the spirit of glory and of God resteth upon you: on their part he is evil spoken of, but on your part he is glorified.
1Pe 4:15 But let none of you suffer as a murderer, or as a thief, or as an evildoer, or as a busybody in other men's matters.
1Pe 4:16 Yet if any man suffer as a Christian, let him not be ashamed; but let him glorify God on this behalf.
1Pe 4:17 For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?

Obviously those who come out of the great tribulation can't be the Church that was tried during the first half of the trib....Your question threw me off with the words "great multitude" I'm assuming you are referring to those who have washed their robs.

During the first half of the trib. all Christians will be tested. During the second half of the trib. Israel will be tested. Two separate groups. I don't see any non-Jew coming out of the trib. saved. Only Israel. They will finally realize that Jesus is their messiah.

As for Rev. 3:10, that is when the end of the first half of the trib comes, all Christians who have been tested and have not apostatized, (religious rebellion) but held fast to their profession of faith, will be gathered to the Lord by the power of the Holy Spirit. He (Holy Spirit) will gather up the victorious believers and with Himself go to Jesus, who, I suppose, will present us to His Father as His glorious Church....I like 1 Peter 4:17 because I think it explains the purpose of the first half of the trib. in that judgment must begin during the first half of the trib. with the Church to reveal who is really Jesus' Church. Because the Holy Spirit takes us up to be the the Lord, He will not come back on the earth.
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Okay my blessed brother, we'll just have to agree to disagree. :) To me the scriptures in 1 Pet 4:12-17 you quoted are occurring to us right now as we are led in the paths of righteousness, and the judgment is ongoing as our Savior walks among the candlesticks which are the churches according to Rev 1:12-13. When we are face to face with Jesus He will have our reward with Him (Rev 22:12); judgment did begin with the church, and its results are written in Revelation Chapters 2 & 3.
:wave2
 
Eugene said:
Okay my blessed brother, we'll just have to agree to disagree. :) To me the scriptures in 1 Pet 4:12-17 you quoted are occurring to us right now as we are led in the paths of righteousness, and the judgment is ongoing as our Savior walks among the candlesticks which are the churches according to Rev 1:12-13. When we are face to face with Jesus He will have our reward with Him (Rev 22:12); judgment did begin with the church, and its results are written in Revelation Chapters 2 & 3.
:wave2
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Yes,I will have to agree to disagree with Chopper too Eugene :)
 
Eugene said:
Okay my blessed brother, we'll just have to agree to disagree. :) To me the scriptures in 1 Pet 4:12-17 you quoted are occurring to us right now as we are led in the paths of righteousness, and the judgment is ongoing as our Savior walks among the candlesticks which are the churches according to Rev 1:12-13. When we are face to face with Jesus He will have our reward with Him (Rev 22:12); judgment did begin with the church, and its results are written in Revelation Chapters 2 & 3.
:wave2
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I agree that the 1 Peter quote is right now because I believe we are either about to enter the first half of the trib, or we are in fact in it.
 
KevinK said:
When Judgement Day occurs, all souls will be judged, and the damned go into the final lake of fire (Gehenna) along with Satan and his demonic minions. In the meantime, when a person dies aren't they "immediately" judged and if damned sent to the current hell (Sheol, also called Hades)? I understand the Bible mentions a first and second death. Does that mean there are also 2 judgments? Is it then possible to fail the first time, but be saved the second and final time? Forgive me if this is a basic question.
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There is no temporary hell or purgatory as some believe. That is not biblical. Hades in Greek is the 'grave' where believers and nonbelievers await judgment without consciousness.
 
Chopper said:
I agree that the 1 Peter quote is right now because I believe we are either about to enter the first half of the trib, or we are in fact in it.
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We in fact have not witnessed the reestablishment of the daily sacrifice in Israel that must be taken from them 30 days prior to the beginning of the 1260 days of the temptation to come upon all the world, which comes out to be 1290 days before the middle of the week. They do not need a temple for this sacrifice to begin, but then soon after the abomination of desolation makes a pact with many (Dan 9:27) and i think the temple will be built again in short order after that.

Dan 12:11 And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.

Dan 9:27 And he (This ain't Jesus brethren) shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.
:woot2
 
The days right before the rapture are to be pretty bad and characterized by increased wickedness 1 Timothy 4:1;2Timothy 4:3;Jude 1:18.We are in bad times but the first half of the tribulation.......no :erm
 
OK folks. I appreciate everyone's view on the end times. I do not in any way pretend to know very much about this subject. As I have said before, I take a very simplistic view of the Book.

First of all we have gone past the original topic of this thread being the judgments. Further posts should be concerning those topics.
Second, You are asking me to go beyond my simple understanding of Revelation which is extremely varied in whoever writes about it. Personally? I don't bother with those views because your probably all right to some extent. I don't know, and I have not studied the chronology of events well enough to put my theories on paper. When ever I have attempted to do that I see something that throws me off.

The only thing I know for sure is; Christ died and rose again. He has forgiven my sins, and I believe He is coming real soon.

So thank you my friends, I love you all. Hold on to your belief's because their just as valid as anyone else's. Just be ready for what we have been posting about, because we are almost ready to enter into it.
 
Chopper said:
OK folks. I appreciate everyone's view on the end times. I do not in any way pretend to know very much about this subject. As I have said before, I take a very simplistic view of the Book.

First of all we have gone past the original topic of this thread being the judgments. Further posts should be concerning those topics.
Second, You are asking me to go beyond my simple understanding of Revelation which is extremely varied in whoever writes about it. Personally? I don't bother with those views because your probably all right to some extent. I don't know, and I have not studied the chronology of events well enough to put my theories on paper. When ever I have attempted to do that I see something that throws me off.

The only thing I know for sure is; Christ died and rose again. He has forgiven my sins, and I believe He is coming real soon.

So thank you my friends, I love you all. Hold on to your belief's because their just as valid as anyone else's. Just be ready for what we have been posting about, because we are almost ready to enter into it.
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Thank you Timothy for your "like". I really liked your 121 post. It's that last judgment that concerns me. I don't really know when the Church will be gathered to our Savior. Some say pre-trib, others say mid-trib, and still others say no gathering or rapture. As far as my simple approach goes, I know for certain that what ever the judgments are, one for the faithful to Jesus and one for the lost, I will be at the one for the faithful. How I got there is a matter that I am in full trust of my Master Owner Jesus. I have always been riveted to your understanding of the Scriptures. You have been a vessel of the Lord to introduce to my mind teachings that went contrary to my Baptist understanding. In quite a few instances, I had to examine myself as to what you taught and found that you were right, and as a result, changed my position.

I just wanted you to know how much I appreciate you and value your friendship. So, my biker friend, be safe riding and soon we'll be in Glory sharing some interesting tales.
 
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