Bible Study How Many People Realize Matthew 11:28-30?

[Tenchi]

Tenchi: "This all deflects and/or ignores my point rather than deal with it directly. Simply offering more incorrectly-used verses doesn't dissolve my explanation, nor does it further CONFIRM YOUR FALSE DOCTRINE as true."



Yes, you claiming I spoke with false doctrine, is very telling, for that scripture.


2 Timothy 3:3 Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,

Not claiming, showing. I showed the falseness of your doctrine, I didn't merely claim it.

But this is, really, just another deflection from your own ad hominem attack, which is real, not imagined (as in the case of my showing your error).

 

[Tenchi]

If you are allowed to behave as you are doing Tenchi, the forum cant have very Christian rules, can it.

Pot and kettle, brother. Pot and kettle.

 

[gordon777]

Again, if the forum encourages, allows such debate and accusations from people who claim to be Christian, it proves they cannot be corrected.


Proverbs 15:10 Correction is grievous unto him that forsaketh the way: and he that hateth reproof shall die.


Romans 1:29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,

2 Corinthians 12:20 For I fear, lest, when I come, I shall not find you such as I would, and that I shall be found unto you such as ye would not: lest there be debates, envyings, wraths, strifes, backbitings, whisperings, swellings, tumults:

 

[Tenchi]

Again, if the forum encourages, allows such debate and accusations from people who claim to be Christian, it proves they cannot be corrected.

Again, in accusing others, you merely accuse yourself.

 

[gordon777]

Not claiming, showing. I showed the falseness of your doctrine, I didn't merely claim it.

But this is, really, just another deflection from your own ad hominem attack, which is real, not imagined, as in the case of showing your error.

You only show you fulfil the scripture of false accusation. ( if the forum rules allow you to accuse someone of false doctrine, they have no Christian rules here.)

Here is how God says we are to be:


Hebrews 12:14 Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord:
15 Looking diligently lest any man fail of the grace of God; lest any root of bitterness springing up trouble you, and thereby many be defiled;

2 Timothy 2:25 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;

1 Peter 3:15 But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:

 

[gordon777]

Again, in accusing others, you merely accuse yourself.

Yes, I also accused you of false doctrine, or you did that alone.

 

[Tenchi]

You only show you fulfil the scripture of false accusation. ( if the forum rules allow you to accuse someone of false doctrine, they have no Christian rules here.)

But you have done the very same thing in contending against my perspective! Goodness.

 

[Tenchi]

Yes, I also accused you of false doctrine, or you did that alone.

Uh huh. Gonna move on now. Have better things to do than this silly back-and-forth.

 

[gordon777]

Not claiming, showing. I showed the falseness of your doctrine, I didn't merely claim it.

But this is, really, just another deflection from your own ad hominem attack, which is real, not imagined (as in the case of my showing your error).

Does the forum or anyone think that accusing someone repeatedly of false doctrine, is holy conversation and godliness ?

1 Peter 1:15 But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation;

2 Peter 3:11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,

 

[gordon777]

But you have done the very same thing in contending against my perspective! Goodness.

Does the forum or anyone think I do the same as stating over and over that someone has false doctrine, as in discussing their perspectives ?

 

[for_his_glory]

Right. But this doesn't mean that a person cannot move into a place with God where sin is the exception rather than the rule. In fact, to the degree that a believer's life is holy (or not), to that same degree they "see God" (or not). Many times, though, I hear Christians talking as though they can walk well with God while living lives constantly corrupted by sin. But walking with God and sinning are mutually-exclusive things! You can't do them both simultaneously. (See: Psalms 66:18; Isaiah 59:2; 1 Peter 3:10-12)



This passage is not speaking of the corruption of sin, but of the physical "corruption" of bodies that are not yet glorified and deteriorate over time, finally to die and moulder away in the ground. Paul speaks of mortal putting on immortality, not immorality putting on morality; he speaks of death - not sin - being swallowed up in victory when we are all resurrected to new, glorified, immortal bodies. And he writes all this in the context of the following:

1 Corinthians 15:51-53 (NASB)
51 Behold, I tell you a mystery; we will not all sleep, but we will all be changed,
52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet; for the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed.
53 For this perishable must put on the imperishable, and this mortal must put on immortality.

Here, then, is the preface to Paul's remarks about the corruptible putting on incorruption. As you can see, he was speaking about the matter of the Second Coming of Christ and the resurrection of the dead into an imperishable - or incorruptible - state.



What is this line of thinking intended to accomplish? It sounds to me like an effort to make room for sin, for moral and spiritual failure. Yes, no one is perfect, nor will they ever be this side of the grave, but this is by no means justification for living that fails to move to ever-deeper levels of holiness and communion with God (the two necessarily go together). We cannot be perfect but we can be a great deal less sinful - and consistently so - than we often are.



Romans 7 was not the last chapter in Paul's letter to the Romans, as you know. He went on in chapter 8 to prescribe the remedy for what he had outlined in chapter 7. Actually, chapter 7 is bracketed on both ends by the very things that prevent the struggle it describes! No born-again person, then, has to live in the defeat and frustration of Romans 7 if they are careful to live in the truths of chapters 6 and 8. Good news, don't you think?

for_his_glory said:
This corruptible that is the flesh part of us while still here on earth is where the nature to sin comes from and none of us are perfect, but only be perfected as long as we walk in the Spirit. But, ask yourself and be honest with yourself, do you always walk in the Spirit 24/7?

You said: What is this line of thinking intended to accomplish? It sounds to me like an effort to make room for sin, for moral and spiritual failure. Yes, no one is perfect, nor will they ever be this side of the grave, but this is by no means justification for living that fails to move to ever-deeper levels of holiness and communion with God (the two necessarily go together). We cannot be perfect but we can be a great deal less sinful - and consistently so - than we often are.

This line of thinking is exactly what you have also said that no one is perfect but we can be a great deal less sinful.

How can we be less sinful? By always walking in the Spirit, but no one can do that 24/7.

 

[for_his_glory]

gordon777 do you ever get angry, talk about others behind their back, tell even white lies, Take a pen, pencil, paperclip or anything home from work as if you are honest with yourself I think we all do at times. Can you honestly answer no to any of this?

 

[gordon777]

for_his_glory said:
This corruptible that is the flesh part of us while still here on earth is where the nature to sin comes from and none of us are perfect, but only be perfected as long as we walk in the Spirit. But, ask yourself and be honest with yourself, do you always walk in the Spirit 24/7?

You said: What is this line of thinking intended to accomplish? It sounds to me like an effort to make room for sin, for moral and spiritual failure. Yes, no one is perfect, nor will they ever be this side of the grave, but this is by no means justification for living that fails to move to ever-deeper levels of holiness and communion with God (the two necessarily go together). We cannot be perfect but we can be a great deal less sinful - and consistently so - than we often are.

This line of thinking is exactly what you have also said that no one is perfect but we can be a great deal less sinful.

How can we be less sinful? By always walking in the Spirit, but no one can do that 24/7.

What scripture do you think undoes all the verses of us being perfect, do you want to show one stating imperfection ?


Matthew 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

Matthew 19:21 Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.

Luke 6:40 The disciple is not above his master: but every one that is perfect shall be as his master.

Luke 8:14 And that which fell among thorns are they, which, when they have heard, go forth, and are choked with cares and riches and pleasures of this life, and bring no fruit to perfection.
15 But that on the good ground are they, which in an honest and good heart, having heard the word, keep it, and bring forth fruit with patience.

John 17:23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.

1 Corinthians 2:6
Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect: yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought:

2 Corinthians 7:1 Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.

2 Corinthians 13:11 Finally, brethren, farewell. Be perfect, be of good comfort, be of one mind, live in peace; and the God of love and peace shall be with you.

Ephesians 4:12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:

Ephesians 4:13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

Philippians 3:12 Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus.

Philippians 3:15 Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you.

Colossians 1:28 Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus:

Colossians 3:14 And above all these things put on charity, which is the bond of perfectness.

Colossians 4:12 Epaphras, who is one of you, a servant of Christ, saluteth you, always labouring fervently for you in prayers, that ye may stand perfect and complete in all the will of God.

2 Timothy 3:17 That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.

Hebrews 7:19 For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God.

Hebrews 10:1 For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.

Hebrews 10:14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

Hebrews 11:40 God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect.

Hebrews 12:23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,

Hebrews 13:21 Make you perfect in every good work to do his will, working in you that which is wellpleasing in his sight, through Jesus Christ; to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.

 

[gordon777]

gordon777 do you ever get angry, talk about others behind their back, tell even white lies, Take a pen, pencil, paperclip or anything home from work as if you are honest with yourself I think we all do at times. Can you honestly answer no to any of this?

Why are you concerned with me, and not with someone else in font of you on the thread, who began accusing others of false doctrine, unless you agree that is the way to behave. (and is not against your forum rules)

 

[for_his_glory]

gordon777 and Tenchi this is a friendly warning as the both of you are becoming borderline in violation of the ToS 1.1 and 1.3. Keep it civil.

Everyone has the right to believe how they want and we need to respect that even if we do not agree with each other at times. Please discuss your indifferences without claiming the "I am right you are wrong" debates that causes division.

 

[gordon777]

gordon777 and Tenchi this is a friendly warning as the both of you are becoming borderline in violation of the ToS 1.1 and 1.3. Keep it civil.

Everyone has the right to believe how they want and we need to respect that even if we do not agree with each other at times. Please discuss your indifferences without claiming the "I am right you are wrong" debates that causes division.

Is saying I am right you are wrong, the same as saying you have false doctrine ?

According to you who enforces the rules, you give me a violation for being accused two times of having false doctrine.

Is that how you want to show you moderate fairly here. ( doing that only after I point out you never were concerned with someone accusing someone on the thread of having false doctrine and repeating the accusation, as if they are allowed to do so,.)

 

[gordon777]

gordon777 and Tenchi this is a friendly warning as the both of you are becoming borderline in violation of the ToS 1.1 and 1.3. Keep it civil.

Everyone has the right to believe how they want and we need to respect that even if we do not agree with each other at times. Please discuss your indifferences without claiming the "I am right you are wrong" debates that causes division.

Would you like to show how I did not keep it civil ?

 

[for_his_glory]

What scripture do you think undoes all the verses of us being perfect, do you want to show one stating imperfection ?


Matthew 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

Matthew 19:21 Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.

Luke 6:40 The disciple is not above his master: but every one that is perfect shall be as his master.

Luke 8:14 And that which fell among thorns are they, which, when they have heard, go forth, and are choked with cares and riches and pleasures of this life, and bring no fruit to perfection.
15 But that on the good ground are they, which in an honest and good heart, having heard the word, keep it, and bring forth fruit with patience.

John 17:23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.

1 Corinthians 2:6
Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect: yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought:

2 Corinthians 7:1 Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.

2 Corinthians 13:11 Finally, brethren, farewell. Be perfect, be of good comfort, be of one mind, live in peace; and the God of love and peace shall be with you.

Ephesians 4:12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:

Ephesians 4:13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

Philippians 3:12 Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus.

Philippians 3:15 Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you.

Colossians 1:28 Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus:

Colossians 3:14 And above all these things put on charity, which is the bond of perfectness.

Colossians 4:12 Epaphras, who is one of you, a servant of Christ, saluteth you, always labouring fervently for you in prayers, that ye may stand perfect and complete in all the will of God.

2 Timothy 3:17 That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.

Hebrews 7:19 For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God.

Hebrews 10:1 For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.

Hebrews 10:14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

Hebrews 11:40 God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect.

Hebrews 12:23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,

Hebrews 13:21 Make you perfect in every good work to do his will, working in you that which is wellpleasing in his sight, through Jesus Christ; to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.

Have you sold all your goods "go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me."?

When did Christ return that we have been changed from corruptable to incorruptable or this mortal has been changed to immortal? 1Corinthians 15:51-58

Are we done being conformed to the image of Jesus? Hebrews 10:14

Is God's grace not sufficient in times of weakness? 2Corinthians 12:9

What God sees in us is the Spiritual inner man that has been made perfect in Christ. Look what Paul said in Romans 7:7-24 as even he struggled with the flesh as flesh and Spirit are hostile enemies and sometimes the flesh will sin, but God's grace is sufficient within our weakness.

We have no excuse for sin, especially when we are walking in the Spirit, but we will mess up at times and God knows that as He has given us Hid grace, but grace does not give us a license to sin.

 

[for_his_glory]

Is saying I am right you are wrong, the same as saying you have false doctrine ?

According to you who enforces the rules, you give me a violation for being accused two times of having false doctrine.

Is that how you want to show you moderate fairly here. ( doing that only after I point out you never were concerned with someone accusing someone on the thread of having false doctrine and repeating the accusation, as if they are allowed to do so,.)

No, it is not the same as saying one has false doctrine.

I have not given you any violations, but said the two of you are walking a fine line boarding breaking the ToS.

I moderate to help keep the unity of the Spirit of love flowing through the threads.

It's a prideful man that esteems himself higher than others that says he is right and everyone else is wrong.

Plus I think we have been going off topic, me included, as sin is not what this thread is about. So no, I am not coping out, but need to being this back to the OP as I have no more to say on the subject of sin.

You have a blessed day.

 

[gordon777]

1. Have you sold all your goods "go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me."?

2.When did Christ return that we have been changed from corruptable to incorruptable or this mortal has been changed to immortal? 1Corinthians 15:51-58

3. Are we done being conformed to the image of Jesus? Hebrews 10:14

4. Is God's grace not sufficient in times of weakness? 2Corinthians 12:9

5. What God sees in us is the Spiritual inner man that has been made perfect in Christ. Look what Paul said in Romans 7:7-24 as even he struggled with the flesh as flesh and Spirit are hostile enemies and sometimes the flesh will sin, but God's grace is sufficient within our weakness.

6. We have no excuse for sin, especially when we are walking in the Spirit, but we will mess up at times and God knows that as He has given us Hid grace, but grace does not give us a license to sin.

1. Apostle Paul sold all so did those believing in the scriptures of Jesus Christ into perfection. Philippians 3:8. Hebrews 10:34.

2. Christ changed us from corruptible to incorruptible, by believing we are born again with Him. ( He gave us the victory/over the law of sin. 1 Corinthians 15:57. 1 Peter 1:23.)


3. Yes He perfected them ( for ever) that are sanctified. ( by faith which is in Him. Acts 26:18.)


Acts 26:18 To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.

Hebrews 10:14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.
15 Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before,
16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;
17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.


4. These are not times of weakness, these are times of strength, the strength of the Lord in us makes perfect. 9 Christ in us, as we can read below, is us labouring according to HIs working, which works in us mightily. ( which is why it is preached and warned to us, to present every man PERFECT IN CHRIST JESUS.)


2 Corinthians 12:9 And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.
10 Therefore I take pleasure in infirmities, in reproaches, in necessities, in persecutions, in distresses for Christ's sake: for when I am weak, then am I strong.

Colossians 1:27 To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:
28 Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus:
29 Whereunto I also labour, striving according to his working, which worketh in me mightily.



5. Romans 7 is not showing times of weakness in the flesh, Romans 7 is describing the weakness of the law, ( that being dead wherein we were held.)


Romans 7:6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.


But now we are delivered from the law. ( to serve in newness of Spirit, not in the oldness of the letter.)

Romans 7 ends the chapter with that same summary, of who shall deliver us ?

( the answer was told at Romans 7:6. But now we are delivered from the law/by Jesus Christ, to serve in newness of Spirit, not in the oldness of the letter. serving the law of God with our mind and in the flesh/in the letter, serving the law of sin. )


Romans 7:24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.



6. Now there is no condemnation to them in the Spirit. ( Romans 7 shows when they are in the flesh/letter, which is not in the Spirit.)

The law caused the weakness of the flesh, God sent His own Son in the likeness of that sinful flesh, to condemn in in the flesh. ( the law of faith, of the Spirit of Christ has made us free fro the law of sin/in the flesh and letter, and death.)

Not only is the righteousness of the law then fulfilled in those walking after the Spirit, Paul had said in Romans 7:25 how he serves the law with his mind, and this is summed up here, how they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh. ( they serve the law of God with their mind, which is the law of sin in the flesh, of the letter and death. But they after the Spirit mind the things of the Spirit. ( set free from from the law of sin in the flesh, and death, by the law of the Spirit of life in Jesus Christ.)


Romans 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.