how many people will take the mark of beast . I believe no one will take it

[Douglas Summers]

It's coats to learn any trade,I have 30 grand in tools.work for free and get all that isn't possible.Nevermind the schooling aND apprenticeship I would have to take,and learning the changes.donations, I have seen how bad churches struggle to make it.if I'm called to use my skills it's one thing ,another to make a living.

Part 2
In the Book of Daniel Chapter 7 is described the prophetic history of dominant beginnings of nations. The first empire is the Lion. The second empire is the Bear, The third empire is like a leopard. The fourth empire was powerful with many heads and crowns (NATO ?) The first beast from out of the sea (mankind) in Revelation chapter 13 has all the symbols of the four empires in the one beast. NATO, with the help of Obama, is given more authority over The United States than at any other time, for the dragon gave them his power to do so. And Satan is worshiped through the minions of men, that follow his principles of governing. So the freedom of religion, for men to worship their own God is not freedom at all, but bondage and slaves to sin. That is why we are to contend for the faith and not be tossed to and fro by every wind of doctrine, that is in the world and even in this forum.

 

[jasonc]

Even churches that are struggling don't expect utility companies to deliver utilities for free or constructions companies to repair their buildings for free. Maybe skilled members will chip in and do it for free, but that's more like dad and son putting a new roof on their house themselves rather than hiring a company. Even if non-members chip in as doing something for God, that's still like an extended family helping out with that roof job. But complete outsiders simply aren't expected to work or provide supplies for free, even by churches who are struggling financially. It's not right. It's not Biblical. And it's certainly not practical.

It's a very telling thing that with all this talk of working "for love" and not for money, I still see absolutely no workable advice given on how to do that and no way given to justify it in light of the scripture that says if we don't work, let us not eat. Changing the world's system of wages is probably the furthest thing from practical or workable that I've ever heard in my life. And this dogmatic insistence that if a person ever accepts wages for a job that precludes them from ever again voluntarily doing something just out of love is totally without merit. So much of this is so much without merit and knowing without a shadow of a doubt that the member offering these ideas is certainly not living this way themself, I really have to wonder if it's just being offered to get a reaction out of people for the fun of it. With no practical solutions given, this whole subject is worthless.

I repaired a car yesterday for no cost

 

[jasonc]

Part 2
In the Book of Daniel Chapter 7 is described the prophetic history of dominant beginnings of nations. The first empire is the Lion. The second empire is the Bear, The third empire is like a leopard. The fourth empire was powerful with many heads and crowns (NATO ?) The first beast from out of the sea (mankind) in Revelation chapter 13 has all the symbols of the four empires in the one beast. NATO, with the help of Obama, is given more authority over The United States than at any other time, for the dragon gave them his power to do so. And Satan is worshiped through the minions of men, that follow his principles of governing. So the freedom of religion, for men to worship their own God is not freedom at all, but bondage and slaves to sin. That is why we are to contend for the faith and not be tossed to and fro by every wind of doctrine, that is in the world and even in this forum.

how on earth, are you getting that as in that book the beasts are named by an angel.?
the lion, Babylon, the bear , Persia. the leopard , Greece

 

[Douglas Summers]

how on earth, are you getting that as in that book the beasts are named by an angel.?
the lion, Babylon, the bear , Persia. the leopard , Greece

I;m sorry jasonc, I did not mean to post this on your page. You would have to read the first post to understand the second post.

 

[jasonc]

I;m sorry jasonc, I did not mean to post this on your page. You would have to read the first post to understand the second post.

IM quite familiar with eschatological positions. Rev 13 mentions beasts but the early church had to know them.they knew daniel the imagery is close. Daniel saw the time Antiochis iv.John sees Rome ,daniel mentions Rome.

 

[john darling]

And this dogmatic insistence that if a person ever accepts wages for a job that precludes them from ever again voluntarily doing something just out of love is totally without merit.

This is another of those double minded areas. Obadiah talks about "accepting" a wage, as though it's some kind of gift being offered. People don't "accept" wages. They demand them. That's the whole purpose of money. If someone doesn't pay, they don't get the service.

Here, Obadiah explains it very well: "Even churches that are struggling don't expect utility companies to deliver utilities for free or constructions companies to repair their buildings for free". There is no expectation because they know that working for money is not about love. It's about getting money. No money no love. Otherwise money becomes pointless.

Obadiah understands that wages are not "accepted". They are demanded, but because he depends on money as his source of life he needs a way to make the two conform. This is why he talks about "accepting" wages. It sounds so much more pleasant than demanding, but it's just word games.

It's a very telling thing that with all this talk of working "for love" and not for money, I still see absolutely no workable advice given on how to do that

But Obadiah, you give a workable solution in your own post. You say,

Maybe skilled members will chip in and do it for free, but that's more like dad and son putting a new roof on their house themselves rather than hiring a company.

What you've described here is called sharing. That's what the kingdom of Heaven is all about. It's really quite simple. The reason you do not see it as a workable solution is because you do not want to see it (John 3:3). Your loyalty is to the systems of man so the values of Heaven look unworkable. An invisible God who is able to meet our needs if we seek his kingdom first (Matthew 6:33) sounds unworkable to you because your perspective is that of a world where people will not help one another for love and therefore, in order to survive, you also must conform to that standard. This is what being "born again" is all about. You die to that old standard and you are "born again" into a completely new set of values. Until you do that, like Nicodemus, you won't be able to see and you'll forever cynically ask, "yeah but how does it work".

An example of this are you comments about how working for money makes people civilized. The ability for people to be civil to one another comes as a result of demanding payment and not as a result of a genuine, inner desire to love one another. For the average person sharing is nice once is a while but as a way of life it's simply impractical because they believe people will not be civil unless they are paid to be civil. If the world demands payment then what other choice do Christians have but to go along with what the world wants?

Courage? Character? Integrity? Backbone? Faith? Nope, what the world wants, the world gets. And very soon the world will demand a "Mark" which will be used to control all buying and selling. It will look like just another ordinary advance in monetary technology. Despite conforming exactly to the description of the prophecy most Christians in the world will be too busy justifying their dependence on buying/selling to even care.

 

[john darling]

I repaired a car yesterday for no cost

Why would you do that? Are you saying you disagree with what the majority of posters here are saying about how if you don't work you shouldn't eat? Since you did that work for love, I hope you didn't eat anything on that day because according to what people here have shared, you'd be going against scripture by doing so.

 

[john darling]

I repaired a car yesterday for no cost

Why would you do that? Are you saying you disagree with what the majority of posters here are saying about how if you don't work you shouldn't eat? Since you did that work for love, I hope you didn't eat anything on that day because according to what people here have shared, you'd be going against scripture by doing so.

 

[Obadiah]

This is another of those double minded areas. Obadiah talks about "accepting" a wage, as though it's some kind of gift being offered. People don't "accept" wages. They demand them. That's the whole purpose of money. If someone doesn't pay, they don't get the service.

Here, Obadiah explains it very well: "Even churches that are struggling don't expect utility companies to deliver utilities for free or constructions companies to repair their buildings for free". There is no expectation because they know that working for money is not about love. It's about getting money. No money no love. Otherwise money becomes pointless.

Obadiah understands that wages are not "accepted". They are demanded, but because he depends on money as his source of life he needs a way to make the two conform. This is why he talks about "accepting" wages. It sounds so much more pleasant than demanding, but it's just word games.



But Obadiah, you give a workable solution in your own post. You say,



What you've described here is called sharing. That's what the kingdom of Heaven is all about. It's really quite simple. The reason you do not see it as a workable solution is because you do not want to see it (John 3:3). Your loyalty is to the systems of man so the values of Heaven look unworkable. An invisible God who is able to meet our needs if we seek his kingdom first (Matthew 6:33) sounds unworkable to you because your perspective is that of a world where people will not help one another for love and therefore, in order to survive, you also must conform to that standard. This is what being "born again" is all about. You die to that old standard and you are "born again" into a completely new set of values. Until you do that, like Nicodemus, you won't be able to see and you'll forever cynically ask, "yeah but how does it work".

An example of this are you comments about how working for money makes people civilized. The ability for people to be civil to one another comes as a result of demanding payment and not as a result of a genuine, inner desire to love one another. For the average person sharing is nice once is a while but as a way of life it's simply impractical because they believe people will not be civil unless they are paid to be civil. If the world demands payment then what other choice do Christians have but to go along with what the world wants?

Courage? Character? Integrity? Backbone? Faith? Nope, what the world wants, the world gets. And very soon the world will demand a "Mark" which will be used to control all buying and selling. It will look like just another ordinary advance in monetary technology. Despite conforming exactly to the description of the prophecy most Christians in the world will be too busy justifying their dependence on buying/selling to even care.

OK, you obviously have some sort of mental condition that impairs you from understanding simple concepts that other people discuss and from using any kind of common sense. Either that or you are simply a troll. I'm not even going to respond to your twisted, disjointed, and illogical representation of what you claim I say and believe.

 

[jasonc]

yeah im sure the grid I work for will just share that massive usage of power an eat the costs. there are some large churches on this grid

 

[JohnDB]

Hi JohnDB. When using scripture it's helpful to get the context. For example, would you same the same thing about a prostitute? The laborer is worthy of his wages? No, obviously not. There was a context to the comment Jesus made about the laborer being worthy of his hire. He'd just sent them out with nothing; no money, no extra clothes, no food etc... and they were sent out to preach the Gospel (Luke 10:4-9). That was their job. Later, in Luke 22:35 Jesus referenced this same period and asked them, "did you lack anything" and they said, "no".

The laborer (one who seeks God's kingdom first) is worthy of his hire (and God will provide all the things you need Matthew ) Matthew 6:33. It makes no sense for Jesus to talk about the world providing for laborers via working for money since there'd be nothing difference between his kingdom and all the kingdoms of man if he were to do that.

You may say that prostitution is very different from something like working at McDonalds, but is it really? A prostitute offers love (or at least the semblance of it) in exchange for money. Isn't that exactly what we do with our lives when we participate in a system where help is only given if money changes hands?

This is why there is a comparison between the Bride and The Prostitute in the Revelation. The Bride doesn't demand payment; she works because she love the groom. The prostitute is only interested in materialism. Read the description of the Prostitute in Revelation 18. It's all about materialism and the things money can buy. We all prostitute the time and life God gave us for free (we don't earn it, remember?) when we demand payment for our time.

Jesus wanted to put the system back to the way it was in the garden (the curse was broken, right?), where we help one another just because we want to through sharing. But this world has become so dry. They can't see because they don't care, just like it was in the days of Noah and Lot; they were eating and drinking, buying and selling, planting and building, giving and being given in marriage right up to the very end (Luke 17:25-30). It's not that these things are bad in themselves but that people stopped caring about what God wanted. They became blinded by the cares of this world. Jesus said it will be like that in the time just before he returns.

Obviously you are trying to bring about end times all by yourself.

The wages of a prostitute or dog are never to be brought to God for an offering.

Then you presume to countermand the instructions God gave me to perform as if I am doing wrong by following His commands?

That's way too much.
Every person has value as to following the tasks set before them and not as they see fit themselves. I am not a pastor nor a teacher. I am grunt labor. Nothing more. I do as I have been instructed. For you to elevate me to a position above my skills is ludicrous at best. It's a great way to be destroyed though. And then there is the question of standing. Why should we follow what you are saying? Who are you to have authority? Especially one that wishes to usurp what God has told us to do?
We do not love money. Money is a tool. Tools mean work. "Tool" and "work" are four letter words. I have more than enough of both thank you very much. To give them up though means I lose my value because I am no longer doing as I am supposed to. I would become the worst slave...one who doesn't do as instructed.

 

[john darling]

yeah im sure the grid I work for will just share that massive usage of power an eat the costs. there are some large churches on this grid

Hi Jason. I'm still curious about why you worked on the car for free. Would you mind sharing the reason? Ordinarily I wouldn't ask about personal details like this but since you volunteered the example I think it could help to shed some light on the issues being discussed. Thanks.

 

[jasonc]

Hi Jason. I'm still curious about why you worked on the car for free. Would you mind sharing the reason? Ordinarily I wouldn't ask about personal details like this but since you volunteered the example I think it could help to shed some light on the issues being discussed. Thanks.

Non commissioned officers take care of lower enlisted.he was driving from the armory back to miami.he had one head light and was in a state of panic of the cost of repair.he tried fixing it.he didn't do it right.I fixed it at no cost.

 

[john darling]

Then you presume to countermand the instructions God gave me to perform as if I am doing wrong by following His commands?

Nah, I'm just talking about the teachings of Jesus and the testimony of Jesus is the answer to the Mark of the Beast (Revelation 19:10). It's a discussion.

Every person has value as to following the tasks set before them and not as they see fit themselves.

Agreed.

I am not a pastor nor a teacher. I am grunt labor. Nothing more. I do as I have been instructed. For you to elevate me to a position above my skills is ludicrous at best.

I'm not trying to elevate you, though I don't see why you'd have a problem with being elevated to preaching since we're all called to be preachers (Matthew 28:20). Jesus was criticized for hanging out with the wrong crowd. Some of his most sincere followers were lowly; tax collectors and simple fishermen, so much so that educated people were impressed by their understanding (Acts 4:13). Playing the "I'm too lowly" card isn't really dealing with the teachings.

Why should we follow what you are saying?

Because Jesus told me to say it. All the outrage and incredulity in the world won't change the fact that I really am teaching the same things Jesus said and did. It's all you guys here who are saying things like, "we CAN love working for money". It doesn't take much discernment to see who is closer to what Jesus actually preached.

We do not love money.

You really only can speak for yourself here. As for what it means to love money I don't think I've ever heard a satisfying explanation from people in your position as to what it actually means to love money. Can you give some practical examples of what you think it means to love money?

Money is a tool.

Yup. The purpose of that tool is to buy or sell. The exact same description given as the purpose behind the Mark of the Beast. It is my intention to discuss WHY the prophecy gives that meaning to the Mark and how it relates to our dependence on materialism.

To give them up though means I lose my value because I am no longer doing as I am supposed to.

No one is asking you to give up your tools or your work. It's a matter of questioning WHY we work. If you are a plumber then you have an extremely valuable skill. The same could be said for any number of various skills in the world. Why not use it to help people instead of make money?

Such behavior IS preaching. It's an illustration of the values of Heaven where people help one another just because they want to.

 

[john darling]

Non commissioned officers take care of lower enlisted.he was driving from the armory back to miami.he had one head light and was in a state of panic of the cost of repair.he tried fixing it.he didn't do it right.I fixed it at no cost.

Hi Jason. Thanks for this clarification, though I'm still a little confused. I had the impression that you originally shared this story as an example of helping someone for love. But, when you say non-commissioned officers take care of lower enlisted, it could be taken that you were somehow obligated to help this person, even though you didn't charge him for the cost. Is that right, or have I misunderstood?

 

[jasonc]

Hi Jason. Thanks for this clarification, though I'm still a little confused. I had the impression that you originally shared this story as an example of helping someone for love. But, when you say non-commissioned officers take care of lower enlisted, it could be taken that you were somehow obligated to help this person, even though you didn't charge him for the cost. Is that right, or have I misunderstood?

I didn't do out of obligation but as a favor.taking care of soldiers is part of my creed and job but it's not a legal mandate on this case.his job is to maintain his car for safe driving.I helped him at no cost.

 

[JohnDB]

Nah, I'm just talking about the teachings of Jesus and the testimony of Jesus is the answer to the Mark of the Beast (Revelation 19:10). It's a discussion.



Agreed.



I'm not trying to elevate you, though I don't see why you'd have a problem with being elevated to preaching since we're all called to be preachers (Matthew 28:20). Jesus was criticized for hanging out with the wrong crowd. Some of his most sincere followers were lowly; tax collectors and simple fishermen, so much so that educated people were impressed by their understanding (Acts 4:13). Playing the "I'm too lowly" card isn't really dealing with the teachings.



Because Jesus told me to say it. All the outrage and incredulity in the world won't change the fact that I really am teaching the same things Jesus said and did. It's all you guys here who are saying things like, "we CAN love working for money". It doesn't take much discernment to see who is closer to what Jesus actually preached.



You really only can speak for yourself here. As for what it means to love money I don't think I've ever heard a satisfying explanation from people in your position as to what it actually means to love money. Can you give some practical examples of what you think it means to love money?



Yup. The purpose of that tool is to buy or sell. The exact same description given as the purpose behind the Mark of the Beast. It is my intention to discuss WHY the prophecy gives that meaning to the Mark and how it relates to our dependence on materialism.



No one is asking you to give up your tools or your work. It's a matter of questioning WHY we work. If you are a plumber then you have an extremely valuable skill. The same could be said for any number of various skills in the world. Why not use it to help people instead of make money?

Such behavior IS preaching. It's an illustration of the values of Heaven where people help one another just because they want to.

Why do you think that we don't give of our talents to God?

Why preach to the choir?

Why do you think that I don't speak at work about my faith?

Why is "everyone but you" more wicked and need encouragement... Especially on this site?

What is your standing?
What is your authority?
God knows full well that no one will listen to those who have none.

People won't care what you know if they don't know you care.
Might want to learn that....take it to heart.
And I find them the selections you conveniently forgot when quoting my post are extremely telling of your agenda

 

[john darling]

Why is "everyone but you" more wicked and need encouragement... Especially on this site?

Hi JohnDB. I think it may be helpful to slow down a bit. I'm not talking about who is or is not wicked. In the end we're all sinners.

This is a discussion about the Mark of the Beast. I've chosen to discuss what the prophecy says about the Mark, i.e. that its purpose will be to control buying/selling. I've further suggested that the answer to the Mark of the Beast is in the testimony of Jesus (Revelation 19:10). His teachings about living by faith, seeking God's Kingdom first and working for love rather than mammon (money and the things money can buy) are the key to a system where we can no longer use money without showing loyalty to the Beast.

Are you familiar with the mark prophecy? In particular, are you aware the prophecy directly links the Mark with "buying and selling"? What are your thoughts on that?

What are your thoughts on the current global banking trend towards a cashless society where transactions are processed via a microchip, either in a phone, a computer, a card, or in the hand?

 

[JohnDB]

Hi JohnDB. I think it may be helpful to slow down a bit. I'm not talking about who is or is not wicked. In the end we're all sinners.

This is a discussion about the Mark of the Beast. I've chosen to discuss what the prophecy says about the Mark, i.e. that its purpose will be to control buying/selling. I've further suggested that the answer to the Mark of the Beast is in the testimony of Jesus (Revelation 19:10). His teachings about living by faith, seeking God's Kingdom first and working for love rather than mammon (money and the things money can buy) are the key to a system where we can no longer use money without showing loyalty to the Beast.

Are you familiar with the mark prophecy? In particular, are you aware the prophecy directly links the Mark with "buying and selling"? What are your thoughts on that?

What are your thoughts on the current global banking trend towards a cashless society where transactions are processed via a microchip, either in a phone, a computer, a card, or in the hand?

The "what" is no where near as important as the "whom" who issues it.
What does it stand for?
What does it say?
That is the real issue with the mark.

If buying and selling was such a sin then Christ and Moses would have said something before Revelations and Abraham would not have been God's friend.

As I have said before it will make a parody of Michael's name as well as Israel. It will be sinful and obviously sinful.

 

[smaller]

The various "beasts" that are depicted in scripture are never seen in the flesh. They are highly symbolic of unseen wicked powers. If said "beasts" are unseen, it is just as likely any "marks" of same are also unseen. I referenced earlier in this chain of posts that part of the "trade" of said beast is the trading in the souls of men. That doesn't appear as an external fleshly/physical matter either. Rev. 18:3. Some might, just might realize that there is "barter" that goes on behind the scenes of the flesh.

And, if there is barter, there is also a "trade system" involved by the "entities" that make such barters. IN the allegorical senses, a flesh slave of Satan or devils is ridden, and the slave of same is "likened" to a HORSE upon which there is a wicked rider, just in case anyone is interested.

The notion of "physical branding" is a fleshly external sight that really has no place in serious eschatology. It is however a great tool to sell pseudo christian novels to scare people with. So in that it serves it's purposes for those who profit by such fears.

The difficulty in digging into eschatology is that scripture does present there there are in fact TWO WORLDS, one invisible, overlaid upon what we see with our eyes. And over and above these two, there is God, Ruling all of it. It's basically a 3 world dynamic to deal with.